The Dhammapada

[camerata]

I was surprised to learn that Thai friends have never heard of the Dhammapada. I would have thought it would be good stuff to have the kids learning by rote at school. Is there some reason it isn't well-known to lay people here? Virgin Smooth FM used to broadcast the opening verse every day.

When I flipped through five or six copies at Siam Paragon Kinokuniya, every one was different. I guess that's not surprising for verse. The one I liked best was the new translation by Gil Fronsdal. The first verse runs like this:

All experience is preceded by mind,

Led by mind,

Made by mind.

Speak or act with a corrupted mind,

And suffering follows

As the wagon wheel follows the hoof of the ox.

[Guest endure]

"Our life is shaped by our mind; we become what we think. Suffering follows an evil thought as the wheels of a cart follow the oxen that draw it."

Eknath Easwaran.

[camerata]

Phenomena are preceded by the heart,

ruled by the heart,

made of the heart.

If you speak or act

with a corrupted heart,

then suffering follows you —

as the wheel of the cart,

the track of the ox

that pulls it.

- Thanissaro Bhikkhu

All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him, as the wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the carriage.

- F. Max Muller

[sabaijai]

The words are different, but is the spirit the same?

[camerata]

I think the spirit is generally the same but the clarity may differ. According to Fronsdal's introduction a translator has to choose between the beauty of verse, the accuracy of prose and a compromise somewhere in between. Personally, I think Thanissaro Bikkhu's choice of the word heart is a mistake.

[sabaijai]

I think the spirit is generally the same but the clarity may differ. According to Fronsdal's introduction a translator has to choose between the beauty of verse, the accuracy of prose and a compromise somewhere in between. Personally, I think Thanissaro Bikkhu's choice of the word heart is a mistake.

It definitely shows his Thai slant. Thai dhamma teachers often use the terms จิด (mind) and ใจ (heart) as synonyms, made even more explicit when used together as จิดใจ. The direct English translations of จิด and ใจ don't seem quite as synonymous to English speakers.

The word 'mind' in English is problematic because Westerners tend to identify mind with brain. The word 'heart' is equally problematic in English, as it's most often identified with emotions. In Buddhism mind is not brain, but neither is it emotions. I've seen some translations of Ajahn Chah lectures that coin the term 'mind-heart'.

[chownah]

Don't know for sure but it seems to me that alot of the Buddhas's teachings talk about "mental factors", "mental objects", "consciousness", and other terms related to the concept of a "mind"......using the word "thought" seems more consistent when talking about the "mind"....at least to me.

[sabaijai]

Yes this points up further the problem with 'mind' as an English term (in translation from Pali) as it may be used to translate differing notions. I think generally, however, it is not used synonymously with 'thoughts' but rather refers to whatever it is that experiences what we experience (or thinks it experiences, from one point of view). More specifically that might be referred to as 'awareness' (sati) but you do see 'mind' used in other cases. Ditto for nama, which is sometimes translated 'mind', somethings 'mentation', as well as assorted other English terms.

It's this sort of translation problem that drives many of those with a keen interest in Buddhism towards studying Pali! My knowledge of Pali is very limited, but I did spend a year of university on it. I find it easier just to use the Pali terms for concepts that relate specifically to Buddhism (well, Theravada Buddhism anyway).

The same literary dilemma occurs in other religions, of course. To my mind it would be pretty difficult to understand the Christian Bible in any depth without some knowledge of Greek, Hebrew, possibly Aramaic (I know none of these, just guessing), ditto the Koran without classical Arabic.

There was at least one other, short thread in this forum on mind in Buddhism:

Mind