Our Progress In Our Sober Runs

[gerryBScot]

I am drinking only about twice a week now, about 6 big Changs a week. Going much better, but I know I'm treading on thin ice! It only takes one mood swing and I'll be drunk again...I get so BORED sitting at home on my off days; no matter what chores or things I come up with to do, once I've finished with them, all I can think about is going out for a beer to relax and sit and watch people go by. I KNOW the only way is to stop completely.

Time to get a hobby or interest that does not revolve around alcohol. This can actually be a lot more difficult than it seems. A lot of sport and leisure stuff involves drinking before, sometimes during and often after. Maybe find a yoga class if you're in a city - will do you good as well as being fun.

But yeah if you quit drinking you're going to get lots of time back - not just drinking time, but recovery time - you're not going to have to write off whole days or parts of days as you get over the night before.

So you will do well to get into some things which are positive and healthy so long as you it doesn't get you back into drinking mode.

Good luck and keep it simple, worry about today and deal with what you can deal with today. You can't change everything in your life today!

[Neeranam]

Hope you're doing ok...I am in the same boat as all of you, and thanks for this thread, Jem Jem. I am on sober day 3 now.

In my 36 years of drinking, I had 2 separate years of abstinence, the last one was 2011. Both times I started drinking one or two until it escalated again to my usual quota. During these 36 years, I have broken an ankle, a foot, an arm, a wrist, not to mention numerous less serious injuries to myself, all because of alcohol. The worst was last year when I plunged down from the first floor into my condo's parking garage and nearly died. After a month in hospital and 3 months off work, endless grief and heartache to my family and partner, I still started drinking slowly again and the last self-injury was 5 days ago when I fell into some old lady's front metal shutter on my way home, bleeding all over. The weird thing is, and I'm not joking, that it only takes 3 large beer Chang for me to get into a state like that. The most I could ever managed was 4.

As someone has mentioned, there are different types of alcoholics. They are scientifically called Alpha-, Beta- and Gamma alcoholics. Not sure which is which, but I'm the one that is NOT biologically addicted but rather psychologically. My body has never CRAVED alcohol in my life, but I have! I think Jem Jem might fall in the same category and it's the more dangerous one. We drink when we're bored and have nothing to do, or feel that we have no real purpose in life. Low self-esteem, depression for whatever reason, etc.

I know one cannot do it alone, but as Jem Jem, I could never join institutions like AA, etc. It's just not for me. I have a very loving caring boyfriend that helps me set and observe my long-term and day to day goals. Praise yourself every time you walk past your local drinking spot without going in. Tell yourself every morning how good you feel because you had another alcohol free day yesterday. Day to day.

Well, this is my view and we might be all going through the same thing, but we are not all the same.

Interesting about the alpha, beta alcoholics.

It would suggest to me that alcohol then in fact isn't the problem.

Have you tried CBT or other things to work on the self-esteem, depression etc?

Have you never had any withdraw symptoms - shaky hands in the morning for example?

If you can stop after 2 Changs, then you have control over drink. Maybe it is a matter of will-power?

[notbkk]

Hope you're doing ok...I am in the same boat as all of you, and thanks for this thread, Jem Jem. I am on sober day 3 now.

In my 36 years of drinking, I had 2 separate years of abstinence, the last one was 2011. Both times I started drinking one or two until it escalated again to my usual quota. During these 36 years, I have broken an ankle, a foot, an arm, a wrist, not to mention numerous less serious injuries to myself, all because of alcohol. The worst was last year when I plunged down from the first floor into my condo's parking garage and nearly died. After a month in hospital and 3 months off work, endless grief and heartache to my family and partner, I still started drinking slowly again and the last self-injury was 5 days ago when I fell into some old lady's front metal shutter on my way home, bleeding all over. The weird thing is, and I'm not joking, that it only takes 3 large beer Chang for me to get into a state like that. The most I could ever managed was 4.

As someone has mentioned, there are different types of alcoholics. They are scientifically called Alpha-, Beta- and Gamma alcoholics. Not sure which is which, but I'm the one that is NOT biologically addicted but rather psychologically. My body has never CRAVED alcohol in my life, but I have! I think Jem Jem might fall in the same category and it's the more dangerous one. We drink when we're bored and have nothing to do, or feel that we have no real purpose in life. Low self-esteem, depression for whatever reason, etc.

I know one cannot do it alone, but as Jem Jem, I could never join institutions like AA, etc. It's just not for me. I have a very loving caring boyfriend that helps me set and observe my long-term and day to day goals. Praise yourself every time you walk past your local drinking spot without going in. Tell yourself every morning how good you feel because you had another alcohol free day yesterday. Day to day.

Well, this is my view and we might be all going through the same thing, but we are not all the same.

Interesting about the alpha, beta alcoholics.

It would suggest to me that alcohol then in fact isn't the problem.

Have you tried CBT or other things to work on the self-esteem, depression etc?

Have you never had any withdraw symptoms - shaky hands in the morning for example?

If you can stop after 2 Changs, then you have control over drink. Maybe it is a matter of will-power?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is CBT? I know this abbreviation as meaning "computer-based training".

I've had a few withdrawals when I was younger, after heavy partying, yes. I think your'e correct in saying the problem is probably not with alcohol itself, but with me. I am taking jerryBScott's advice and taking up a hobby, as it's when I'm alone and bored that I head for the bar!

I wonder how the OP, JemJem is doing??

[Neeranam]

Hope you're doing ok...I am in the same boat as all of you, and thanks for this thread, Jem Jem. I am on sober day 3 now.

In my 36 years of drinking, I had 2 separate years of abstinence, the last one was 2011. Both times I started drinking one or two until it escalated again to my usual quota. During these 36 years, I have broken an ankle, a foot, an arm, a wrist, not to mention numerous less serious injuries to myself, all because of alcohol. The worst was last year when I plunged down from the first floor into my condo's parking garage and nearly died. After a month in hospital and 3 months off work, endless grief and heartache to my family and partner, I still started drinking slowly again and the last self-injury was 5 days ago when I fell into some old lady's front metal shutter on my way home, bleeding all over. The weird thing is, and I'm not joking, that it only takes 3 large beer Chang for me to get into a state like that. The most I could ever managed was 4.

As someone has mentioned, there are different types of alcoholics. They are scientifically called Alpha-, Beta- and Gamma alcoholics. Not sure which is which, but I'm the one that is NOT biologically addicted but rather psychologically. My body has never CRAVED alcohol in my life, but I have! I think Jem Jem might fall in the same category and it's the more dangerous one. We drink when we're bored and have nothing to do, or feel that we have no real purpose in life. Low self-esteem, depression for whatever reason, etc.

I know one cannot do it alone, but as Jem Jem, I could never join institutions like AA, etc. It's just not for me. I have a very loving caring boyfriend that helps me set and observe my long-term and day to day goals. Praise yourself every time you walk past your local drinking spot without going in. Tell yourself every morning how good you feel because you had another alcohol free day yesterday. Day to day.

Well, this is my view and we might be all going through the same thing, but we are not all the same.

Interesting about the alpha, beta alcoholics.

It would suggest to me that alcohol then in fact isn't the problem.

Have you tried CBT or other things to work on the self-esteem, depression etc?

Have you never had any withdraw symptoms - shaky hands in the morning for example?

If you can stop after 2 Changs, then you have control over drink. Maybe it is a matter of will-power?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is CBT? I know this abbreviation as meaning "computer-based training".

I've had a few withdrawals when I was younger, after heavy partying, yes. I think your'e correct in saying the problem is probably not with alcohol itself, but with me. I am taking jerryBScott's advice and taking up a hobby, as it's when I'm alone and bored that I head for the bar!

I wonder how the OP, JemJem is doing??

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

I highly recommend a couple of books too -

http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Living-Little-Book-Wisdom/dp/0062511114/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380002590&sr=8-1&keywords=a+manual+for+living+epictetus

and

http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Now-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380002632&sr=8-1&keywords=eckart+tolle+power+of+now

What about exercise? I found swimming particularly useful.

[notbkk]

Thanks for the info!

Sent from my M3 Enjoy TV Box using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[473geo]

Another break guys but I have been following the thread

Jem Jem I am disappointed you are disappointed, giving up alcohol is no easy task, trying not to give up entirely but control your drinking is possibly an even harder task!

So exactly how do you feel you have let yourself down, a couple of days experiencing the 'social' side of alcohol again and you are preparing yourself to be burnt at the stake!! Did you somehow believe all you had to do was announce to the forum I am going to give up...and hey presto you would be blessed with the ability to do so? The reason I am in good shape drinkwise is very easy to identify. I found the excuse I needed to make a real effort to control my drinking and with a little resolve it got me to where I am today. Perhaps at this moment in time you have little or no alternatives, and you actually enjoy the social life drinking provides, accept the risks that go with it, and are trundling along, apart from losing the occasional friend who can be replaced at a moments notice by an alternative drinking buddy, no severe damage appearing to be inflicted by your lifestyle choice! I can understand that, I carried that same lifestyle for many many years, and nobody could tell me I wasn't really having fun, until I found an alternative reason and method to enjoy myself, through, and with, my wife and children. A genuine better deal! You know, otherise, I would have carried right on, and read this forum feeling sorry for those who could no longer party as I was, having the time of my life! You could not endure my lifestyle for sure, solitude when I am working away which is most of the time, but for me it is a means to a hopefully wonderful end, For you for sure it would be purgatory and don't forget I am just about partied out too!!!! and let me tell you this, swimming,playing golf,exercise and the other plethora of 'alternatives' are not the enhancement to giving up alcohol people claim, they are activities that can fill the void created by not drinking, but don't be fooled into thinking they are a direct and suitable methodology to assist in giving up drinking. These 'alternatives' come into play more when you have been successful in the struggle, they fill the gap, but can never be a direct substitute for going out and partying, be honest, partying is fun!

So quit sulking and let us know what you are about now, I for one will never feel any disappointment regarding your struggle, I think you will make it, when the time is right. so hold that thought

@notbkk - I agree we are all different, and as such carry differing levels of experience and understanding, to my mind the direction of the individual comes from within

Edited September 28, 2013 by 473geo

[big carl]

Another break guys but I have been following the thread

Jem Jem I am disappointed you are disappointed, giving up alcohol is no easy task, trying not to give up entirely but control your drinking is possibly an even harder task!

So exactly how do you feel you have let yourself down, a couple of days experiencing the 'social' side of alcohol again and you are preparing yourself to be burnt at the stake!! Did you somehow believe all you had to do was announce to the forum I am going to give up...and hey presto you would be blessed with the ability to do so? The reason I am in good shape drinkwise is very easy to identify. I found the excuse I needed to make a real effort to control my drinking and with a little resolve it got me to where I am today. Perhaps at this moment in time you have little or no alternatives, and you actually enjoy the social life drinking provides, accept the risks that go with it, and are trundling along, apart from losing the occasional friend who can be replaced at a moments notice by an alternative drinking buddy, no severe damage appearing to be inflicted by your lifestyle choice! I can understand that, I carried that same lifestyle for many many years, and nobody could tell me I wasn't really having fun, until I found an alternative reason and method to enjoy myself, through, and with, my wife and children. A genuine better deal! You know, otherise, I would have carried right on, and read this forum feeling sorry for those who could no longer party as I was, having the time of my life! You could not endure my lifestyle for sure, solitude when I am working away which is most of the time, but for me it is a means to a hopefully wonderful end, For you for sure it would be purgatory and don't forget I am just about partied out too!!!! and let me tell you this, swimming,playing golf,exercise and the other plethora of 'alternatives' are not the enhancement to giving up alcohol people claim, they are activities that can fill the void created by not drinking, but don't be fooled into thinking they are a direct and suitable methodology to assist in giving up drinking. These 'alternatives' come into play more when you have been successful in the struggle, they fill the gap, but can never be a direct substitute for going out and partying, be honest, partying is fun!

So quit sulking and let us know what you are about now, I for one will never feel any disappointment regarding your struggle, I think you will make it, when the time is right. so hold that thought

@notbkk - I agree we are all different, and as such carry differing levels of experience and understanding, to my mind the direction of the individual comes from within

It would be wonderful if we could hear from the ones who died trying it alone.

[big carl]

Hello Jem Jem

Been keeping up with your progress but incommicado for the last 6 weeks!!

Hope you are still going well

I am quite amused to find I was never a 'real alcoholic' as intimated by dogbreath above, 40 years of excessive alcohol consumption, money wasted, relationships ruined, fooling my self that drinking to excess was making me happy, putting drink before every other aspect of my life.....

You see Jem Jem I have discovered the will to control my drinking, (as you are making a real attempt to do) and yes in most cases that is abstinence, because I no longer wish to expend the energy controlling something more easily avoided. Yet because I do not 'fit' into the explanations of 'we alkies' it would appear I was never a 'real alcoholic'........the problem I have with many organisations is the complete inability of some members to accept that others do not require the 'services' and 'advice' they despense combined with their smug attitude such people are doomed to fail......well not this guy!!......It is the crass comments of people such as dogbreath that spur me on, care to join me as an 'individual'? look to yourself, not the experience of others, you can be stronger than they if you wish.....or you can fall into line with the failures who support and encourage others with stories of failure then roll out the 'corporate' solution....I have been successful on my journey...me..the individual working to my own strengths.....you can be too.....and if that makes us not a 'real alcoholic' then I am pleased I never was!!!

473geo We in AA carry a message of hope as well as tolerance for other points of view. AA does not claim to be the only solution to problem drinking or alcoholism. I have known some people who have stayed sober without AA. If it works for them, fine. I tried other methods for years without success. My involvement with AA has helped me stay sober for quite a long time. It worked for me as well as millions of others.

That you issue a blanket condemnation of AA makes me suspect a case of contempt prior to investigation which is, of course, a bar to all knowledge. In any event, good luck and best wishes.

It wasn't really meant to be a condemnation of AA; I am really sorry if it sounded like that. It was just a feeling that it wouldn't work with me personally.

And, I wasn't sober when I wrote that last message, and I was also feeling very down due to the fact that I had gotten drunk two days in a row, which was something that I especially meant to avoid doing for good ! Physically, I have been getting back to normal only today.

Anyway, I will consider going to AA. Once again, I want to say that I hadn't meant to condemn it.

Anyway, I am really disappointed with myself now, and I will come back in here and write, either only if/when I start going to AA, or if/when I take up a new hobby/interest, and if/when I think I am on the right path.

I know this has been a dead thread for a while but Jem Jem if you do happen to read it I would urge you to go to AA now and listen to the suggestions. No one of us is able to do them perfectly in fact not even close and it says that in the big book right after you read the 12 steps.

At any rate what ever you do don't take it to the length I did. When I came in I had only one fear. That was what if it doesn't work. I knew what would happen and was willing to do any thing to prevent that. The good times and fair weather friends where all gone and had been for a couple of years. If you feel you have to go to that length well then go and be quick about it so you can get on with a life you never dreamed possible. I highlited the length it took me to. Every day was a horrer show and the next one was going to be worse.

[Sirbergan]

Hi everyone!

I haven't posted in this part of the forum before, but this thread seems like a good idea so I'll give it a shot. I'm in my mid-thirty's, have a family (wife and daughter + 2 stepchildren) and live in Isaan. You all probably know that the alcohol is everywhere in this drunken area of Thailand, so it's kind of hard to escape it.

I have a company that takes up almost all of my time, and due to stress + restlessness I have made it a habit of drinking in my office in the evenings. Some days during the day too, and I estimate my average consumption to approx. 8-10 big bottles of Archa every day. Some days seven, other days 9, 10, 11 or even 12. This has been going on for months, but before that it was an average of 4-5 big bottles a day (which is also too much) for a few years.

I tried to stop a few days ago, but I got the shakes and started sweating after 24 hours of not drinking. So I read up on some of the possible negative effects if you stop abruptly. And man, some of them can be pretty heavy! So instead, I'm going to reduce gradually, which I started to do yesterday.

This is my plan for reducing gradually (started yesterday):

Week 1:

- 2 big bottles around lunch hours.

- 3 big bottles in the evening.

Week 2:

- 2 small bottles around lunch hours.

- 3 big bottles in the evening.

Week 3:

- 3 big bottles in the evening.

I honestly haven't decided if I will stop completely yet, I just love beer too much. I'll decide later, I think. Perhaps starting to drink small bottles instead would be a good idea? I don't think 4 small bottles or so a day is harmful. Anyway, I'm on day 2, and so far I'm following my plan.

Any ideas?

[impulse]

Hi everyone!

I haven't posted in this part of the forum before, but this thread seems like a good idea so I'll give it a shot. I'm in my mid-thirty's, have a family (wife and daughter + 2 stepchildren) and live in Isaan. You all probably know that the alcohol is everywhere in this drunken area of Thailand, so it's kind of hard to escape it.

I have a company that takes up almost all of my time, and due to stress + restlessness I have made it a habit of drinking in my office in the evenings. Some days during the day too, and I estimate my average consumption to approx. 8-10 big bottles of Archa every day. Some days seven, other days 9, 10, 11 or even 12. This has been going on for months, but before that it was an average of 4-5 big bottles a day (which is also too much) for a few years.

I tried to stop a few days ago, but I got the shakes and started sweating after 24 hours of not drinking. So I read up on some of the possible negative effects if you stop abruptly. And man, some of them can be pretty heavy! So instead, I'm going to reduce gradually, which I started to do yesterday.

This is my plan for reducing gradually (started yesterday):

Week 1:

- 2 big bottles around lunch hours.

- 3 big bottles in the evening.

Week 2:

- 2 small bottles around lunch hours.

- 3 big bottles in the evening.

Week 3:

- 3 big bottles in the evening.

I honestly haven't decided if I will stop completely yet, I just love beer too much. I'll decide later, I think. Perhaps starting to drink small bottles instead would be a good idea? I don't think 4 small bottles or so a day is harmful. Anyway, I'm on day 2, and so far I'm following my plan.

Any ideas?

As long as drinking isn't causing problems in your life, carry on and enjoy! Drinking less and tapering off works wonders for a lot of heavy drinkers who aren't alcoholic.

But if you're one of us who had problems brought on by drinking, and you want to quit, there's a seat for you at any AA meeting.

My opinion (and that's all it is- my opinion) if you haven't decided to quit completely, AA will drive you crazy. It will screw up your drinking.

If you get to where you know you want to quit, give it a try.

[Sirbergan]

As long as drinking isn't causing problems in your life, carry on and enjoy! Drinking less and tapering off works wonders for a lot of heavy drinkers who aren't alcoholic.

But if you're one of us who had problems brought on by drinking, and you want to quit, there's a seat for you at any AA meeting.

My opinion (and that's all it is- my opinion) if you haven't decided to quit completely, AA will drive you crazy. It will screw up your drinking.

If you get to where you know you want to quit, give it a try.

I'm developing into a so-called "functional alcoholic", so my drinking isn't causing any harm or problems other than reduced effectiveness. I'm mostly worried about my liver and general health - but I don't think 4-5 small bottles of beer every day is unhealthy (or so I've read), so that's the amount I'm aiming for.

I've been to GA (Anonymous gamblers) before. I couldn't complete the steps, and I found it kind of hard to get into the whole "something bigger than you" thing. I do love the serenity prayer, though, it's an absolutely brilliant quote that everyone should live by (but being an atheist, I chose to exclude "God" from it). Actually my gambling problem was one of the reasons I decided to move to Thailand many years ago - I needed to get away from it. Would be quite ironic if I became an alcoholic after I quit gambling, but it's probably not uncommon

Thanks for the advise. I'm happy to hear that for some it actually is possible to taper off and drink less. Perhaps there is hope for me too

[Sirbergan]

Edit: I never meant to bash AA in any way, I think it's great. It's not for everyone, but I know AA has helped an awful lot of people, and the results (when it's a fit) are normally better than any expensive psychiatrist or treatment program can achieve.

Update: Day 2, and after my 3 beers I'm terribly tempted to run down to the neighbor shop to buy a few more bottles. Trying to stay strong, but I'm not sure if I can as I know he'll be open for 2 more hours.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Sirbergan

[Sirbergan]

Didn't stay strong. Went for 2 extra beers, and then two more. Tomorrow is a new day.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Sirbergan

[Sirbergan]

Hello Jem Jem

Been keeping up with your progress but incommicado for the last 6 weeks!!

Hope you are still going well

I am quite amused to find I was never a 'real alcoholic' as intimated by dogbreath above, 40 years of excessive alcohol consumption, money wasted, relationships ruined, fooling my self that drinking to excess was making me happy, putting drink before every other aspect of my life.....

You see Jem Jem I have discovered the will to control my drinking, (as you are making a real attempt to do) and yes in most cases that is abstinence, because I no longer wish to expend the energy controlling something more easily avoided. Yet because I do not 'fit' into the explanations of 'we alkies' it would appear I was never a 'real alcoholic'........the problem I have with many organisations is the complete inability of some members to accept that others do not require the 'services' and 'advice' they despense combined with their smug attitude such people are doomed to fail......well not this guy!!......It is the crass comments of people such as dogbreath that spur me on, care to join me as an 'individual'? look to yourself, not the experience of others, you can be stronger than they if you wish.....or you can fall into line with the failures who support and encourage others with stories of failure then roll out the 'corporate' solution....I have been successful on my journey...me..the individual working to my own strengths.....you can be too.....and if that makes us not a 'real alcoholic' then I am pleased I never was!!!

473geo We in AA carry a message of hope as well as tolerance for other points of view. AA does not claim to be the only solution to problem drinking or alcoholism. I have known some people who have stayed sober without AA. If it works for them, fine. I tried other methods for years without success. My involvement with AA has helped me stay sober for quite a long time. It worked for me as well as millions of others.

That you issue a blanket condemnation of AA makes me suspect a case of contempt prior to investigation which is, of course, a bar to all knowledge. In any event, good luck and best wishes.

It wasn't really meant to be a condemnation of AA; I am really sorry if it sounded like that. It was just a feeling that it wouldn't work with me personally.

And, I wasn't sober when I wrote that last message, and I was also feeling very down due to the fact that I had gotten drunk two days in a row, which was something that I especially meant to avoid doing for good ! Physically, I have been getting back to normal only today.

Anyway, I will consider going to AA. Once again, I want to say that I hadn't meant to condemn it.

Anyway, I am really disappointed with myself now, and I will come back in here and write, either only if/when I start going to AA, or if/when I take up a new hobby/interest, and if/when I think I am on the right path.

Hi, JemJem!

I understand that you are feeling down about it, but the setbacks will come. Don't let it put you down, you can start with a blank sheet every single day One day at a time, remember? Regarding AA, it's not for everyone - but you don't know whether or not it's for you if you haven't tried it. And even if you find that it's not for you, I'm sure you will meet a few people there who can help you – it's just so much easier talking to someone who, through experiencing or having experienced the same thing as you, understands exactly what you're going through. A "mentor" or a "sober pal" might be a great thing – someone you can talk to when you're down after a setback, and someone you can call when you feel you might not be strong enough to lay off the booze.

Anyway, just try to stay positive and take one day at a time. If you don't manage to stay sober today, you can always try again tomorrow! It's not the end of the world.

[Sirbergan]

Day 3: Sadly, this isn't working. I still think I need to taper off, and I still want to be able to drink (though I have now adjusted my goal to "never alone"), and I want to drink a lot less. Does anyone know if there's an AA group in the Roi Et area, and whether or not you really MUST complete the 12 steps? I had a problem with the steps when going to GA meetings, but I was very young and inexperienced. Perhaps I should give it another go, if there are any groups here that is.

Edit: I just found the AA Thailand website. There are none in Roi Et.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Sirbergan

[Neeranam]

Day 3: Sadly, this isn't working. I still think I need to taper off, and I still want to be able to drink (though I have now adjusted my goal to "never alone"), and I want to drink a lot less. Does anyone know if there's an AA group in the Roi Et area, and whether or not you really MUST complete the 12 steps? I had a problem with the steps when going to GA meetings, but I was very young and inexperienced. Perhaps I should give it another go, if there are any groups here that is.

Edit: I just found the AA Thailand website. There are none in Roi Et.

There is an AA meeting in Roi Et.

Roi Ed hospital. Addiction Treatment Division–OPD Every Saturday, 10:00 Tel 043-518-200 ext 7100 There is translation available.

There is also one in Mahasarakham.

There is only one requirement for membership - a desire to stop drinking. If you want to continue drinking, why go to a meeting of people who want to quit?