Foreigners Attack Hazing Ritual At Thai Universities

[LomSak27]

For all you culture people you ever read about "thai army cliques" that would be the groups that form in the academy who later get together and have coups

they formed doing stuff like this ... and yes we did sophs back in high school but this article soft sells what actually goes on, I have heard of a lot nastier hazing at thai schools, than they print, and if you object or do not participate ...Ohhhhhhh Npoooooo --- you might get run out of school beside getting your you know what beat to a pulp and most likely both

Put in those terms is it good?! ... right ... I get the idea most of you have no clue about this and think the sanitized version of this article is all that goes on.

Edited January 4, 2013 by LomSak27

[chooka]

I think there is a real difference to the practice of hazing, honouring and congratulating those students who have finnished thier studies and the bastardisation practices. The bullying tactics are criminal offences in many countries and should be stamped out. I saw my wife's niece graduate and the other students bowing to them on parade and thought this was quite respectful. At the end of the ceromony the graduating students then returned the honour. This was at the Chiang Rai University.

[scorecard]

Lol - what a pathetic bunch of whiners (the "foreign" students). Of course "American" universities would NEVER do anything to show pride in their school, or sports team(s), or fellow students. Shame on those Thai schools that expect freshmen to SING A SONG !

The HORROR of it all !! Off with the heads of those that show ANY pride or have ANY school spirit or follow ANY traditions !! They should ALL respect AMERICAN traditions at their THAI schools !!!!

It can and normally goes way beyond singing a song.

True, singing a song is in fact a very weak or lame example, there have been many deaths and very serious injuries from these events in Thailand.

[seajae]

My wife told me last night that she was subjected to some of these tactics at uni as well, thrown into a canal even though she couldnt swim then laughed at when she started to drown, forced to take off clothes in public areas, paired up with male seniors and then supposed to do what ever they wanted(including sex), she refused and copped heaps from them but she put up with it. If this is considered to be just simple hazing then I have to say that those(take note kerryd) defending it must have two d*cks, you dont become that stupid playing with one.

[scorecard]

My wife told me last night that she was subjected to some of these tactics at uni as well, thrown into a canal even though she couldnt swim then laughed at when she started to drown, forced to take off clothes in public areas, paired up with male seniors and then supposed to do what ever they wanted(including sex), she refused and copped heaps from them but she put up with it. If this is considered to be just simple hazing then I have to say that those(take note kerryd) defending it must have two d*cks, you dont become that stupid playing with one.

Just one more example, at one private uni in Bkk one of the hazing ceremonies : all new girls have to go down on their hands and knees and perform fake oral sex on senior boys, with their face rubbing in the boys crotch and the senior boys thrusting their crotch into the girls face.

What's this got to do with loving your uiversity?

Edited January 5, 2013 by scorecard

[scorecard]

Supported by the Uni teachers. Xxxxxx up system of what being a thai is all about

It's good that you have such a strong opinion about the wrongs and the rights of Thailand, it's that strength of opinion that stops you living in Thailand right, or does it ?

Stupid comment.

[chooka]

My wife told me last night that she was subjected to some of these tactics at uni as well, thrown into a canal even though she couldnt swim then laughed at when she started to drown, forced to take off clothes in public areas, paired up with male seniors and then supposed to do what ever they wanted(including sex), she refused and copped heaps from them but she put up with it. If this is considered to be just simple hazing then I have to say that those(take note kerryd) defending it must have two d*cks, you dont become that stupid playing with one.

Just one more example, at one private uni in Bkk one of the hazing ceremonies : all new girls have to go down on their hands and knees and perform fake oral sex on senior boys, with their face rubbing in the boys crotch and the senior boys thrusting their crotch into the girls face.

What's this got to do with loving your uiversity?

That sort of thing is wrong, and would be classified as a sexual assault and the boys would be liable for criminal prosecution in some countries (Aust). Don't know how the BIB or the Thai courts would look at it tho.

[canuckamuck]

As a minimum, there should be no hazing of girls by boys, that should obvious to even the dimmest.

But hazing should be put away all together. I was fortunate enough to go to university in a country where hazing was not even considered, outside of some sports teams, and even that was against the rules. University was a blank slate, where you made new friends and made steps towards self actualization (probably the last thing the Thai establishment wants).

And what is so important about respecting your senior students? What importance are they to anyone?

[cup-O-coffee]

I am not so sure this is hazing. As a Cross Country ritual, the Freshman were thrown in the lake. Since this sport took place in Winter, I can assure you the water was cold. The problem occurs though when the one being initiated resists in a state of severe panic. In this instance, I blame the seniors carrying out the initiation for not exercising compassion and instead augmenting their physical superiority in numbers until the initiation is carried out and the victim has been mentally damaged to a degree. More humiliation is added when the seniors bully and name-call the one who panicked. It can be a living nightmare and difficult to put behind one for the duration of their stay at that university.

Hazing? No. Initiation? Yes; but those who are administering it should be supervised by adults, and the ones being initiated should be forewarned that this is a part of that institution's "right of passage". Moreover, there should be honor in the initiation and not intent to humiliate, as well as respect to one's religion, sexual choice, race and physical state. I know that some fat kids can be very self-conscious for example.

Calisthenics and dancing is not over the top in my view, but respect is a two way street. It needs to be earned before it can be dished out.

Any initiation must be approved by the institution, and therefore rendered as a part of the curriculum. To not do so and instead to ignore it makes this a mob-rule mentality which is subsequently condoned by the institution, and therefore denigrates the image of the institution in my view.

[mrbiggwigg]

Critics of this are sad and pathetic people who need to get a life. I have witnessed this tradition in a Thai Uni and at at no point did i see any one being coerced into doing it, in fact quite the opposite, the students seemed to greatly enjoy being a part of it and appeared to be having a jolly good time and much merriment..

To all critics, Yahboo sucks !!

[mrbiggwigg]

Critics of this are sad and pathetic people who need to get a life. I have witnessed this tradition in a Thai Uni and at at no point did i see any one being coerced into doing it, in fact quite the opposite, the students seemed to greatly enjoy being a part of it and appeared to be having a jolly good time and much merriment..

To all critics, Yahboo sucks !!

[mrbiggwigg]

I have seen people taken to hospital through heat exhaustion, girls crying and people still shouting at them. Of course they try to make the best of it, but usually its only the seniors/bullies that are having fun.

[Halion]

Like so many things in Thailand this is fairly standard practise that has been horibly corrupted by the Thai , culture,attitude and social behaviour until it has become the the opposite of what it was meant to engender.

[laobali]

Like so many things in Thailand this is fairly standard practise that has been horibly corrupted by the Thai , culture,attitude and social behaviour until it has become the the opposite of what it was meant to engender.

Like water-throwing at Songkran? Sprinkling from a small bowl to buckets, drums and high-pressure hoses.

Edited January 5, 2013 by laobali

[DGS1244]

Critics of this are sad and pathetic people who need to get a life. I have witnessed this tradition in a Thai Uni and at at no point did i see any one being coerced into doing it, in fact quite the opposite, the students seemed to greatly enjoy being a part of it and appeared to be having a jolly good time and much merriment..

To all critics, Yahboo sucks !!

Obviously you suffer from some form of blindness, hazing starts with simple stuff but somewhere always goes too far. I have seen students who walked out after the first day as they could not take it. Just bullying people to do what they want them to do!!

[hyperion]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

[scorecard]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Well, overall that's your opinion which your entitled to, and which seems to be based on your experience at one university.

Thailand does actually have more than one university. My Thai son went to a Thai uni (no name) where these 'ceremonies' were totally and absolutely banned and students were well informed that any attempts by students to conduct any form of such cermonies either on or off campus would mean instant severe shaming, publication of photos, and instant officially recorded dismissal.

Why? Because of a previous violent death (held under water until drowned). The perpetrators all pleaded that it was tradition and just an accident, therefore all OK. They actually went to jail.

Several others in this thread have said that non-attendance just delayed the hazing.

Edited January 5, 2013 by scorecard

[Passiebeer]

Any system that tries to make oneself feel better, higher, more respected by pushing others down instead of elevating oneself, harms...

[inquisitive]

Lol - what a pathetic bunch of whiners (the "foreign" students). Of course "American" universities would NEVER do anything to show pride in their school, or sports team(s), or fellow students. Shame on those Thai schools that expect freshmen to SING A SONG !

The HORROR of it all !! Off with the heads of those that show ANY pride or have ANY school spirit or follow ANY traditions !! They should ALL respect AMERICAN traditions at their THAI schools !!!!

Excuse me? I seem to have missed the core of your comment. Exactly what part of being humiliated by someone in your own school shows pride? Did you mean that harassing the fresman shows how the upperclassman is proud of his school, or did you mean that the humiliated freshman is showing how proud he/she is of their school by cowering to the demands?

Just to make it clearer to me, let me give you a hypothetical: If your boss made you strip in front of your co-workers, would that be an example of him showing his pride in his company or you showing your pride of the company? Or perhaps that would be an example of creating company "spirit"?

How about you cover your head with spaghetti to show us all how proud you are of ThaiVisa forum? Or would that not make any sense either?

Sheesh!

[Whidbeyboy]

I'm sorry who are these idiots again? As long as the hazing doesn't go too far as to endanger someone's life, it's okay.

Hazing is a tradition that isn't exclusive to universities in Thailand. Why doesn't this moron go criticise someone else first?

In America these are what we would call the treehugging liberals, the same people who think fishing is animal abuse.

Singing in public? The horror of it all. I use to make them put thier underwear on thier head and take a leap of the high dive. After the beer we drank, nobody really cared or were embarrassed. Though cases do happen where jerks take it too far. But what I see it's a joke.

[hyperion]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Well, overall that's your opinion which your entitled to, and which seems to be based on your experience at one university.

Thailand does actually have more than one university. My Thai son went to a Thai uni (no name) where these 'ceremonies' were totally and absolutely banned and students were well informed that any attempts by students to conduct any form of such cermonies either on or off campus would mean instant severe shaming, publication of photos, and instant officially recorded dismissal.

Why? Because of a previous violent death (held under water until drowned). The perpetrators all pleaded that it was tradition and just an accident, therefore all OK. They actually went to jail.

Several others in this thread have said that non-attendance just delayed the hazing.

I agree that hazing is a serious problem, not just isolated to Thailand, but as a global issue (I know I hear a lot more in the news about sexual misconduct and deaths due to hazing in the US than I do here, and I'm sure it happens everywhere). But that image and the post - there is no hazing. I just don't get where that got pulled out of thin air.

What's going on in the Facebook post is a simple traditional ceremony that I'm 99% sure the younger students organized themselves. It's completely optional, no one is forced to be there and no one is forced to cheer. I'm super confused on how a "traditional" cheering ceremony got spun around into a hazing act. They might be encouraged to go by their friends and peers, but no one is dragged by their collar to these events. No one is penalized by not going. It just blows my mind how one could take that post and turn it into something so negative and the polar opposite of what is really happening. It also has nothing to do with SOTUS or hazing or blah blah.

It's simply the same as at an American graduation ceremony where you cheer on your friend as their name is called to pick up a diploma.

[Whidbeyboy]

Any system that tries to make oneself feel better, higher, more respected by pushing others down instead of elevating oneself, harms...

Obviously you have never been in a tight knit group and had to earn your way. This builds unity and pride as they said. If you are too whimpy to get out of your comfort zone. It's NOT about those doing the hazing, it's about those having to go through it.

It isn;t about how the people doing the hazing feel. It isn;t about making then feel better, it is about the new guys showing they will put up with some hardship and charactor building. Stop being so whimpy, were creating a bunch of nerds.

[Jawnie]

It seems that this all is known and supported by school administrators...from the individual school level all the way to the top.

In that case, then at least school administrators should enforce some guidelines and admonitions. The administration should publicly tell freshman that they should not do something they feel is unsafe, such as setting one's skin on fire, or do anything inappropriate, such as orally servicing the male seniors. Administrators should make it clear and acceptable for freshmen to refuse these types of requests from upper classmates.

Conversely, upper-class students should be warned and admonished in the same way: nothing unsafe or of a sexual nature with the girls (or guys). It should be made equally clear that upper classmates must respect the wishes of freshmen who wish to decline unsafe or inappropriate requests.

It ain't rocket science.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Jawnie

[scorecard]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Well, overall that's your opinion which your entitled to, and which seems to be based on your experience at one university.

Thailand does actually have more than one university. My Thai son went to a Thai uni (no name) where these 'ceremonies' were totally and absolutely banned and students were well informed that any attempts by students to conduct any form of such cermonies either on or off campus would mean instant severe shaming, publication of photos, and instant officially recorded dismissal.

Why? Because of a previous violent death (held under water until drowned). The perpetrators all pleaded that it was tradition and just an accident, therefore all OK. They actually went to jail.

Several others in this thread have said that non-attendance just delayed the hazing.

I agree that hazing is a serious problem, not just isolated to Thailand, but as a global issue (I know I hear a lot more in the news about sexual misconduct and deaths due to hazing in the US than I do here, and I'm sure it happens everywhere). But that image and the post - there is no hazing. I just don't get where that got pulled out of thin air.

What's going on in the Facebook post is a simple traditional ceremony that I'm 99% sure the younger students organized themselves. It's completely optional, no one is forced to be there and no one is forced to cheer. I'm super confused on how a "traditional" cheering ceremony got spun around into a hazing act. They might be encouraged to go by their friends and peers, but no one is dragged by their collar to these events. No one is penalized by not going. It just blows my mind how one could take that post and turn it into something so negative and the polar opposite of what is really happening. It also has nothing to do with SOTUS or hazing or blah blah.

It's simply the same as at an American graduation ceremony where you cheer on your friend as their name is called to pick up a diploma.

Suddenly changed your opinion?

Suddenly it's just about cheering whilst your friend picks up his diploma.

If death or serious injury happens, regardless of what country, regardless of so called 'traditions' etc etc., it is NOT OK. How can it be OK?

You might like to put yourself in the shoes of the parents and other family members of the youngsters who have been murdered and maimed by these acts.

Would you be willing to just brush it aside, with a 'maiphen rai, just some innocent traditional fun?'

Edited January 5, 2013 by scorecard

[hyperion]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Well, overall that's your opinion which your entitled to, and which seems to be based on your experience at one university.

Thailand does actually have more than one university. My Thai son went to a Thai uni (no name) where these 'ceremonies' were totally and absolutely banned and students were well informed that any attempts by students to conduct any form of such cermonies either on or off campus would mean instant severe shaming, publication of photos, and instant officially recorded dismissal.

Why? Because of a previous violent death (held under water until drowned). The perpetrators all pleaded that it was tradition and just an accident, therefore all OK. They actually went to jail.

Several others in this thread have said that non-attendance just delayed the hazing.

I agree that hazing is a serious problem, not just isolated to Thailand, but as a global issue (I know I hear a lot more in the news about sexual misconduct and deaths due to hazing in the US than I do here, and I'm sure it happens everywhere). But that image and the post - there is no hazing. I just don't get where that got pulled out of thin air.

What's going on in the Facebook post is a simple traditional ceremony that I'm 99% sure the younger students organized themselves. It's completely optional, no one is forced to be there and no one is forced to cheer. I'm super confused on how a "traditional" cheering ceremony got spun around into a hazing act. They might be encouraged to go by their friends and peers, but no one is dragged by their collar to these events. No one is penalized by not going. It just blows my mind how one could take that post and turn it into something so negative and the polar opposite of what is really happening. It also has nothing to do with SOTUS or hazing or blah blah.

It's simply the same as at an American graduation ceremony where you cheer on your friend as their name is called to pick up a diploma.

Suddenly changed your opinion?

Suddenly it's just about cheering whilst your friend picks up his diploma.

If death or serious injury happens, regardless of what country, regardless of so called 'traditions' etc etc., it is NOT OK. How can it be OK?

You might like to put yourself in the shoes of the parents and other family members of the youngsters who have been murdered and maimed by these acts.

Would you be willing to just brush it aside aside, with a 'maiphen rai, just some innocent traditional fun?'

Huh?

I was comparing the cheering on the graduates in the Facebook post to cheering on graduates as is typically acceptable at US graduation ceremonies. Neither is hazing and I am surprised the people on Facebook thought this was hazing. As the cheering is an optional activity. The graduates don't force the junior students to cheer them on as they graduate. If they did, it would be hazing. I've taken place in these cheers, and been to several other graduation events at Chula, ABAC and Bangkok University for friends graduations where junior students will cheer off their seniors. It is not a forced upon event. No one is told they have to be there or suffer consequences, and if they were, they'd have a hell of a time trying to get thousands of students to do it at once. Usually its just a small group of students, student council, cheering squad, etc. There is no harm done to anyone, everyone is cheery, happy, joyful, having fun, and certainly no one is being forced which is where there would be a problem.

This was my experience from when I cheered of senior students at BU.

Friend: "Hey Justin! Let's go cheer off the seniors!"

Me: Oh! Okay. Sounds cool! Let's go.

*Does the cheer*

Claps and wais and thank yous from and to everyone. Just a very joyous moment, and no one was hazed into doing it. If a senior grabbed me and told me I had to do it if I want to be a good junior or suffer the "consequences", I'd punch him in the <deleted> and stick his head up his arse if he still wants to be able to walk when he grabs his diploma.

I'm just confused how people pulled hazing out of the Facebook post. That is all. I just don't see these cheers as hazing, because no one is being forced, its a positive activity, and there is no harm done to anyone. And did I mention how in this particular instance, it's not hazing? Being forced to cheer/bullied into cheering, or being bullied if you choose not to cheer = hazing. These graduation cheers are not forced activities by any body in the universities, simply fun celebrations and send offs put together by the cheering students for the graduating students which equals not hazing in my books.

No I'm not in support of the crazy real hazing that takes place globally. I know hazing is a big issue, and I know it should be looked at more carefully. I don't like the idea of hazing. I can't recall ever being hazed, but I was bullied often as a kid and it sucked. Hazing is barbaric, nasty, and I'd like to see more punishments for it.

Anywho, I'll just take it that you just misunderstood me/misread what I was trying to say.

Edited January 5, 2013 by hyperion

[DocN]

Hazing rituals at Thai universities have been going on for a long time. This pic was apparently taken at Rangsit university in 2005, where female students were 'forced' to simulate oral sex with male students:

http://www.nationmul...s_17726391.html

http://www.thaivisa....rks-witch-hunt/

How funny!

And this "ritual" is good again for what?

Respect and honor?

Not for the women, I assume!

Edited January 5, 2013 by Scott

[Fookhaht]

Hazing has a long long history in the West, can't imagine where they got the idea.

The type of hazing you see in Thai universities was banned at most tertiary institutions as far back as the 1970's and 80's in my western country. As in many other ways, Thailand is simply a generation behind fully-developed countries in the allowance of hazing.

Here, I've witnessed freshmen crawling for dozens of meters on their stomachs through mud and dirt while being whacked on the backs and behinds with stout sticks. In some cases they were made to stand at attention out in the hot noonday sun until a certain required percent of them fainted. The ones who fainted had to come back and do it again the next day (if still alive, of course) until they passed a minimum time requirement. Barbaric.

P.S. The OP tried to get our sympathy with THIS??

"Hazing rituals may include seniors requiring the freshmen to perform actions like singing school songs loudly in public, or performing calisthenics." If only it was this tame . . .

[arunsakda]

I graduated from the University of California - Davis in 1990. Looking back it was not much fun. Hazing was only for the frat boys. Studied my ass off and the only pressure I felt was intense competition for grades.

That's my point exactly. Only frat boys actually give a crap about hazing and then anyone who is not a frat boy doesn't give a crap about frat boys in the first place. They are largely invisible to the average casual observer that leads his/her own life on campus and neither party gives a crap about the other. Very different to high school as you correctly pointed out (indirectly). Not much fun at university? - maybe. But there has to come a time when we grow up since university students are adults, they must be held accountable for their actions. Parents can't bail out a 20 year old dufus who does something really stupid and perhaps criminal as a hazing ritual. The law will hold them accountable due to their age.

I think I made my comment a little too casually, just to emphasize a University experience completely concentrated on academics. Not meant to dismiss serious consequences of hazing. In the US hazing is strictly limited to the Frat/Sorority scene and there have been deaths due to extreme drinking, drownings, etc. A string of these events led to strict Campus regulations and reforms in the Greek system largely eliminated the problem. I don't think you can even crack a beer at a Frat house in Davis any more, let alone consider the multi++ Keg blowouts we used enjoy, frolicking with random drunken Coeds.

And yes, I had a little fun.

[Greer]

Well this just led me to a conversation I had never had. I just asked my wife what happened to her as a Freshman! Oh yes, there was singing and having to make funny faces, all in front of the staff, and then there was the other side. The 'secret room', and when every week for 3 months the seniors got a bus to come outside the university and they all had to go to an undisclosed location. SImulated sex, stripping, eating shit, eating parts of poisonous insects, lining up 20 people and one senior spits a greeny into the mouth of a freshman and then they had to swill it round, add their own spit and spit it all in to the mouth of the next (all supposed to be 'fun' for the seniors', not a thought for hepatitis or any other orally transmitted disease), at points along the line certain students would have to swallow! The stories of what happened were so rife my wife spoke with her parents and her Father point blank refused her to participate. The overall results, 15 girls and 5 boys left within 2 months , my wife stuck it out. Her punishment for not participating was that she was banned from participating in any Uni event (which meant she would not receive vital 'participation' points for Graduation, she was called into the 'secret room' every day for a year and threatened and on many occasions, slapped, she was at the end of her tether and almost left, but for a teacher realising her predicament and helping out. In short her years at uni were an utter nightmare. All of those that took part in the 'hazing', loathed the University and those that made them do it.

If that is fostering school unity and spirit, then those on here that endorse 'hazing' should take a serious look at yourselves. My wife went to a good Uni, one of her friends went to a lower Uni and had a very tough time, one boy in her year being paralyzed and hospitalized for years.

I feel quite angry just now!

I totally agree with you - my daughter is nearing the age to enter Uni, and I am now extremely worried about the prospect - but the problem is of course international, so swapping to places outside Thailand would probably do no more than add racism to the mix - the hazing would still occur. The authorities do need to look into this and find ways to stop it - perhaps jail terms along the lines of those convicted of crimes such as assault - and of course mandatory expulsion from the university, with a black mark against any future enrolment?

[DocN]

I'm sorry who are these idiots again? As long as the hazing doesn't go too far as to endanger someone's life, it's okay.

Hazing is a tradition that isn't exclusive to universities in Thailand. Why doesn't this moron go criticise someone else first?

In America these are what we would call the treehugging liberals, the same people who think fishing is animal abuse.

Singing in public? The horror of it all. I use to make them put thier underwear on thier head and take a leap of the high dive. After the beer we drank, nobody really cared or were embarrassed. Though cases do happen where jerks take it too far. But what I see it's a joke.

Actually, I see only one joke here and that is a guy, who thinks that sexual humiliation, actual bodily harming procedures and injuries, degenerating practices or deat (as reported by several members of the forum by now) is all just good clean fun!