Apple Cider Vinegar For Weight Loss ... Any Feedback?

[tropo]

Further to my comment above. This is precisely why few people are correctly diagnosed as prediabetic because the testing is a pain in the a** for most people and is not straight forward like a simple FBS blood test or HbA1c.

I would suggest that anyone seriously interested in staying healthy go to the trouble to see how they respond to food.

Here's my reasoning.... A lot of people with insulin resistance and prediabetes will test normal on FBS and HbA1c tests. They may only start testing abnormally on these tests once they are truly diabtetic. It's better to find out long before it gets that bad.

Also, according to the AMA and other medical associations, prediabetes starts at a FBS of 100mg/dl. Truly normal and healthy is 83mg/dl. When it moves up into the 90's your sensitivity to insulin is already decreasing and even at that stage you are likely to be spiking quite significantly after high carb meals.

You don't wake up one day with prediabetes or diabetes. It's a slow decline over many years. You need to catch it as early as you can and you avoid diabetes.

Edited January 13, 2013 by tropo

[poanoi]

Thanks, and i have found a lab on 3rd rd near pratamnak hill, just 20 meters off 3rd rd,

so i can report back how it is in a couple of days

[tropo]

Thanks, and i have found a lab on 3rd rd near pratamnak hill, just 20 meters off 3rd rd,

so i can report back how it is in a couple of days

I think I know the lab you mean. They have good prices (I've seen their price list but never used them - I use Pattaya Lab in Naklua).

I don't know if they can do OGTT though. I don't know how you'd go about getting such a test at a lab.

Edited January 13, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

If they don't do OGTT, which I don't think they will, here's what I would do.

Go and eat a normal meal with carbs. A Thai meal with rice, noodles, or any meal you regularly eat with other carbs, eg. bread, pasta etc.

Have your blood drawn at the lab exactly 2 hours after you started eating your meal (this shouldn't cost more than 100 - 200 baht). This will be a more accurate result than using a glucometer at home.

If your blood sugar is over 140 mg/dl, then you're prediabetic.

If your blood sugar is over 199 mg/dl, then you're diabetic.

These are the official numbers used by medical associations.

They are far from ideal. For example, I try to keep mine below 120mg/dl at all times, even 1 hour after a meal.

Please read this:

http://chriskresser....t-normal-part-1

Edited January 13, 2013 by tropo

[JSixpack]

Thanks, and i have found a lab on 3rd rd near pratamnak hill, just 20 meters off 3rd rd,

so i can report back how it is in a couple of days

I think I know the lab you mean. They have good prices (I've seen their price list but never used them - I use Pattaya Lab in Naklua).

http://lifecare.siam2web.com/

I don't know if they can do OGTT though. I don't know how you'd go about getting such a test at a lab.

Evidently they don't.

[tropo]

Thanks, and i have found a lab on 3rd rd near pratamnak hill, just 20 meters off 3rd rd,

so i can report back how it is in a couple of days

I think I know the lab you mean. They have good prices (I've seen their price list but never used them - I use Pattaya Lab in Naklua).

http://lifecare.siam2web.com/

I don't know if they can do OGTT though. I don't know how you'd go about getting such a test at a lab.

Evidently they don't.

Thanks for the price list.

HbA1c = 350 baht, Blood sugar = 50 baht.

I wonder how many doctors even bother with an OGTT these days. You'd probably only get one from a specialist in diabetes.

...but there's a cheap solution. Eat a meal and you can test your BG for 50 baht. Make sure you have the blood drawn at exactly 2 hours after a normal meal with carbohydrates. At that price I'd have the blood drawn twice - at 1 hour and 2 hours.

Blood sugar after a meal normally peaks at 45 minutes but this can vary a lot depending on a person's glucose tolerance.

Edited January 14, 2013 by tropo

[Tolley]

Well the majority of people dont have insulin resistance so that is how I can make the comment.

No I dont test I dont need to as I have had my fasting blood sugar tested many times and it is fine and even a bit low actually.

As i have stated before everyone is different and all advice here while well intentioned may or may not be applicable to you.

You really need to see a good experienced naturopath to work through the right diet for you. I did this many years ago and it has served me extremely well. They use blood tests in conjunction with family history and other diagnostic tools to come up with a plan for you. This then gets fine tuned over the years.

As for JT if he wanted to lose weight quickly I would recommend the Aitkens diet because it definitely works to get off the pounds quickly. He could then go on their maintenance type diet which is basically how I eat anyway which includes a small amount of complex carbs, no sugar or processed junk.

How could you possibly know what percentage of people have insulin resistance when hardly anyone ever gets tested. I have seen one figure that shows that 50% of people (US) over 65 have it. It starts a lot earlier. Even it if is not a "majority", it's a very big percentage... but of course we will never know because everyone will not be tested - and to test this requires more than an FBS. Postprandial tests are required to determine how a person handles rice and these are even more difficult to do as a home testing kit is required.

Check the study above where 70% are undiagnosed using FBS and HbA1c tests alone.

You're making the assumption that because your FBS is normal you don't spike after rice. You don't know until you test.

I don't need to see a naturopath as I know exactly how to keep my blood sugar under control. I thought I made that clear in other posts? My blood sugar is perfectly normal. WPC is a big factor too as it causes an insulin release which helps to lower blood sugar from carbs. A very good way to handle more carbs at a sitting. It's like an insulin supplement.

I have had all my blood tests done recently and everything is okay and I feel good and I dont have any medical conditons whatsoever so I am happy with my diet as is.

A naturopath is a good starting point for anyone because as I said before what we are giving is generalised advice whilst a naturopath will tailor diet and supplements to the individual taking into account their personal health history genetic predispositions etc. they are the experts providing you find a good one in this area.

[Tolley]

I take your point and people with specific medical condtions may need to have special diets and avoid grains altogether.

But the majority of people can handle a bit of brown rice with protein quite well. You need to do the measurements after such a meal to see what the results are. Testing brown rice in isolation is a bit misleading i think as you never just eat rice by itself.

I've never tested brown rice in isolation. It's always tested it as part of a full meal. Mixing protein with a meal doesn't change 1 and 2 hour postprandial results. The carbohydrates are digested with or without protein and blood sugar normally reaches its peak at 45 minutes. There's no point testing things in isolation as that serves no purpose. This is why testing after meals is better than the OGTT tests done by doctors.

How would you know if the majority of people can handle brown rice well? You can't feel high blood sugar levels in the 150 - 200 mg/dl zone. You'd never know unless you tested. If you can't handle white rice you won't be able to handle brown rice. We already know that a huge percentage of population have insulin resistance so how could you make such a comment.

Do you test?

Well the majority of people dont have insulin resistance so that is how I can make the comment.

No I dont test I dont need to as I have had my fasting blood sugar tested many times and it is fine and even a bit low actually.

As i have stated before everyone is different and all advice here while well intentioned may or may not be applicable to you.

You really need to see a good experienced naturopath to work through the right diet for you. I did this many years ago and it has served me extremely well. They use blood tests in conjunction with family history and other diagnostic tools to come up with a plan for you. This then gets fine tuned over the years.

As for JT if he wanted to lose weight quickly I would recommend the Aitkens diet because it definitely works to get off the pounds quickly. He could then go on their maintenance type diet which is basically how I eat anyway which includes a small amount of complex carbs, no sugar or processed junk.

Tolly,

I have downloaded a nice documentary about the Atkins diet, basically it works because high protein meals fill you up better and this way it reduces the caloric intake. Its from the BBC if you want it i can link it from my dropbox.

I know the Aitkens diet works. I have never seen the need to go on it but if was overweight and it was affecting my health I probably would go on it for a short period of time.

However The problem with the Aitkens is that it is just like any other diet . People lose the weight initially and then they go off it and go carbohydrate mad because they have been craving carbs for a however long they have been on the diet. The maintenance Aitkens diet is basically what i eat which includes a bit of complex carbs like brown rice and maybe wholemeal bread. It is a much more sustainable diet and most people will definitely lose weight on this eating regime.

[tropo]

A naturopath is a good starting point for anyone because as I said before what we are giving is generalised advice whilst a naturopath will tailor diet and supplements to the individual taking into account their personal health history genetic predispositions etc. they are the experts providing you find a good one in this area.

The way I see it, the naturapaths are guessing the same as we are. They have access to the same current information and there isn't a clear model of obesity yet...and so many debates on the subject it will make your head spin.

With internet we can to do the research ourselves. Obviously what we can eat is restricted to what we can find where we live. I don't have access in Thailand to a lot of the food I can buy in Australia... in particular organic unpasteurized, unhomogenized milk (I like milk ).

I don't like naturapaths in Australia - I couldn't see any possibility of finding a good one here.

Edited January 14, 2013 by tropo

[mania]

Isn't that just a laxative? I think VERY unhealthy in the long run.

I just got a email from my brother in the USA

saying folks there are all excited about Garcinia Cambogia Extract

because of a recent show by Dr. Oz

Anyway I was surprised as that is what Fitne Tea that mentioned is.

What I did not know is it comes from Tamarind

No wonder it is popular here in Thailand

More here

http://www.doctoroz....fat-buster-pt-1

Might be something you might be interested in JT

Edited January 15, 2013 by mania

[Jingthing]

Fitne is mostly a laxative. Probably OK to use short term. Long term it could be very harmful.

Garcinia Cambogia extract in ITSELF sounds interesting. Note the caveat for diabetics. So is the Garcinia Cambogia extract isolated for sale in Thailand? I know the fruit is coming from Thailand but that doesn't mean the extract is commercialized here.

As far as taste goes, it tastes like green tea but a bitterer version of the green tea I drink. The back of the bag says that each 2.65 gramme tea bag contains 1500mg of Senna leaves, 500 mg of Senna pods, green tea leaves, and 150 mg of Garcinia Atroviridis. Garcinia Atroviridis is a hydroxy citric acid, which is a natural substance that is extracted from the rind of the fruit of the Garcinia Cambogia tree. It is apparently non-toxic and has been used for generations for appetite suppressing and weight loss. However, diabetics should never drink anything with this substance in it as it has a very bad glycemic reaction on the body. So Fitne tea is definitely out for somebody who has diabetes.

http://voices.yahoo....5739.html?cat=5 Edited January 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[mania]

Fitne is mostly a laxative. Probably OK to use short term. Long term it could be very harmful.

Garcinia Cambogia extract in ITSELF sounds interesting. Note the caveat for diabetics. So is the Garcinia Cambogia extract isolated for sale in Thailand? I know the fruit is coming from Thailand but that doesn't mean the extract is commercialized here.

Will let you know as I am looking for some for my brother.

That video series does make it sound interesting.

[Jingthing]

As far I know you still can't buy a mainstream supplement called RESVERATROL in Thailand because it isn't sanctioned by the Thai FDA. It's crazy the dangerous crap they sell here over the counter compared to the good things you CAN'T buy here.

[robblok]

As far I know you still can't buy a mainstream supplement called RESVERATROL in Thailand because it isn't sanctioned by the Thai FDA. It's crazy the dangerous crap they sell here over the counter compared to the good things you CAN'T buy here.

I know what you mean, its frustrating at times.

[Tolley]

A naturopath is a good starting point for anyone because as I said before what we are giving is generalised advice whilst a naturopath will tailor diet and supplements to the individual taking into account their personal health history genetic predispositions etc. they are the experts providing you find a good one in this area.

The way I see it, the naturapaths are guessing the same as we are. They have access to the same current information and there isn't a clear model of obesity yet...and so many debates on the subject it will make your head spin.

With internet we can to do the research ourselves. Obviously what we can eat is restricted to what we can find where we live. I don't have access in Thailand to a lot of the food I can buy in Australia... in particular organic unpasteurized, unhomogenized milk (I like milk ).

I don't like naturapaths in Australia - I couldn't see any possibility of finding a good one here.

No you wont find one in thailand and even in Oz there are many that are not very good but a good one is worth their weight in gold.

Modern naturopaths are very scientific they get you to get a full blood count and they go over your entire medical history and you genetic make up. The ones who know iris diagnosis know can reveal some really interesting things too. They do guess to some extent as diet and supplements can be a case of trial and error but they have alot of experience dealing with different medical conditions and the supplements and diets that work for these conditions.

I will give you a simple example. If you have symptoms of reflux and go to a doctor or pharmacist they will give you medication that actually masks the symptoms of reflux without getting to the root causes of the problem and if you continue for years masking the symptoms without addressing the root causes then you risk getting cancer.

If you went to a naturopath with this problem they will obviously tell you what foods to cut out and eat smaller meals and probably give you something to support the liver and slippery elm to help the digestive tract issues.

This is one example of many where what might start out as a small problem if you go down the wrong path of treatment may end up being a much bigger problem.

I would also add things like cholesterol lowering medications as having bad side effects when you could avoid high cholesterol by diet changes, exercise and supplements like garlic and fish oil.

So where I see naturopaths fitting in is very much in a preventative fashion where they can help fix a small problem via diet and supplements before it becomes a very large problem where surgery or heavy medications are the the only options.

[mania]

Garcinia Cambogia extract in ITSELF sounds interesting. Note the caveat for diabetics. So is the Garcinia Cambogia extract isolated for sale in Thailand? I know the fruit is coming from Thailand but that doesn't mean the extract is commercialized here.

Seems they do sell it here

Name in Thai is ส้มแขก (SomKag)

Quite a few places selling it but here are a couple

Prices of course way cheaper than the US

Seems to run about 120 baht for 100 capsules

http://www.thaiherbbiz.com/%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%84%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B1%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%94-top?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=46&category_id=171

http://www.herblpg.com/thai/node/55

[tropo]

A naturopath is a good starting point for anyone because as I said before what we are giving is generalised advice whilst a naturopath will tailor diet and supplements to the individual taking into account their personal health history genetic predispositions etc. they are the experts providing you find a good one in this area.

The way I see it, the naturapaths are guessing the same as we are. They have access to the same current information and there isn't a clear model of obesity yet...and so many debates on the subject it will make your head spin.

With internet we can to do the research ourselves. Obviously what we can eat is restricted to what we can find where we live. I don't have access in Thailand to a lot of the food I can buy in Australia... in particular organic unpasteurized, unhomogenized milk (I like milk ).

I don't like naturapaths in Australia - I couldn't see any possibility of finding a good one here.

No you wont find one in thailand and even in Oz there are many that are not very good but a good one is worth their weight in gold.

Modern naturopaths are very scientific they get you to get a full blood count and they go over your entire medical history and you genetic make up. The ones who know iris diagnosis know can reveal some really interesting things too. They do guess to some extent as diet and supplements can be a case of trial and error but they have alot of experience dealing with different medical conditions and the supplements and diets that work for these conditions.

I will give you a simple example. If you have symptoms of reflux and go to a doctor or pharmacist they will give you medication that actually masks the symptoms of reflux without getting to the root causes of the problem and if you continue for years masking the symptoms without addressing the root causes then you risk getting cancer.

If you went to a naturopath with this problem they will obviously tell you what foods to cut out and eat smaller meals and probably give you something to support the liver and slippery elm to help the digestive tract issues.

This is one example of many where what might start out as a small problem if you go down the wrong path of treatment may end up being a much bigger problem.

I would also add things like cholesterol lowering medications as having bad side effects when you could avoid high cholesterol by diet changes, exercise and supplements like garlic and fish oil.

So where I see naturopaths fitting in is very much in a preventative fashion where they can help fix a small problem via diet and supplements before it becomes a very large problem where surgery or heavy medications are the the only options.

All this requires faith in their "knowledge".

... as long as they don't ask my blood type and feed me accordingly. IMO that's a lot of unfounded nonsense.

I'm not big on iridology either... each to their own.

As far as digestive tracts are concerned, I firmly believe that anyone who decides to make and drink their own kefir daily will never have any problems in that area. I've already heard some amazing stories from guys who got grains from me, but considering it's not a business I don't have any interest in pushing it. People can do their own research. My own digestive efficiency is beyond exceptional now.

Unfortunately because kefir making is virtually free once you have your own grains, naturopaths wouldn't be too keen on the idea of putting people on it because there wouldn't be any profit in it for them.

Yes, some of the best things in life are free. Even Dr Mercola prefers to put people onto the idea of using kefir starter grain - which only works for about 10 batches before they have to buy more.

[Jingthing]

Garcinia Cambogia extract in ITSELF sounds interesting. Note the caveat for diabetics. So is the Garcinia Cambogia extract isolated for sale in Thailand? I know the fruit is coming from Thailand but that doesn't mean the extract is commercialized here.

Seems they do sell it here

Name in Thai is ส้มแขก (SomKag)

Quite a few places selling it but here are a couple

Prices of course way cheaper than the US

Seems to run about 120 baht for 100 capsules

http://www.thaiherbb...category_id=171

http://www.herblpg.com/thai/node/55

That's interesting. According to those sites, it's a laxative. I know its a bad idea to become DEPENDENT on laxatives. I wonder if it really is a laxative. I definitely don't have full confidence in labels on Thai herbs. Senna in Fitne tea is DEFINITELY a laxative. Edited January 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[mania]

That's interesting. According to those sites, it's a laxative. I know its a bad idea to become DEPENDENT on laxatives. I wonder if it really is a laxative. I definitely don't have full confidence in labels on Thai herbs. Senna in Fitne tea is DEFINITELY a laxative.

Maybe they rid your body of fat thru the back door?

Seriously though I don't know & was looking into it for my brother.

I never really take any supplements myself except fiber at night.

My wife & many of her Thai friends do drink that fitne tea at night though.

They make it hot & then let it cool & drink it.

Also I know it is a Muay Thai thing & those guys probably dont take it as a laxative but probably a weight

control.

[Jingthing]

The athletes use Fitne for short term weight loss. Take laxatives you will lose weight. That's not healthy or a good long term plan.

From WebMD:

How does it work?

Developing research suggests that garcinia might prevent fat storage and control appetite; however, whether these effects occur in humans is unclear.

That doctor's video says the commercial formula brands correctly include some POTASSIUM with the herb and that it is needed. I reckon the Thai herbs don't.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[JSixpack]

Remarks on vinegar here:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-apple-cider-vinegar-dna-damage-lactaid-and-miracle-noodles/#axzz2HvZDoz3E

[Jingthing]

Somewhat coincidentally, the addition of Garcinia Cambogia fits very well in a discussion of Apple Cider Vinegar for weight loss.

Superficially, it seems there may be more evidence behind Garcinia Cambogia than ACV, but just guessing about that.

In any case both are promoted as weight loss BOOSTERS when used in addition to weight loss level calorie reductions and hopefully some exercise as well.

Both are used in similar ways: taken 30 minutes to an hour BEFORE eating meals.

Of course curious guy that I am, I wonder if anyone has ever studied using BOTH?!?

The Thai popular Fitne tea is heavy in laxative and not used the same way as commercial Garcinia Cambogia preparations.

The Garcinia Cambogia that is available here as an herb does not include potassium which is standard in commercial Garcinia Cambogia preparations.

Also of perhaps greater importance, the studies that have been done on Garcinia Cambogia show that DOSE is important. Dose of what? Does of the ACTIVE INGREDIENT: hydroxycitric acid (HCA).

The Thai herb pills sold as Garcinia Cambogia I am assuming do not indicate the DOSE of the active ingredient, hydroxycitric acid.

I will look at those bottles soon and find out what it says on the package.

So if the active ingredient dose is not indicated, you'd have to just experiment and guess with different doses. Also the issue of adding some kind of potassium supplement when taking the pills.

In any case, this is interesting and thanks to the poster who brought up the topic of Garcinia Cambogia.

BTW, I am still on the ACV and I am feeling increased satiety from somewhat smaller portions. I am mostly good on choosing healthful food products, and I do believe in lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, but my wall now is portion size. Another thing I love about vegetables, in addition to the flavor, is that you can eat a high volume of them filling your belly with few calories. People are saying they aren't satisfied by vegetables. I don't really get that. Being American and growing up fat, this could also be a cultural thing. I expect to see a good amount of food on a plate and if it's on the plate, I generally eat it. It's something to work on.

http://www.doctoroz....ia-cambogia-hca

Edited January 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[mania]

Also of perhaps greater importance, the studies that have been done on Garcinia Cambogia show that DOSE is important. Dose of what? Does of the ACTIVE INGREDIENT: hydroxycitric acid (HCA).

The Thai herb pills sold as Garcinia Cambogia I am assuming do not indicate the DOSE of the active ingredient, hydroxycitric acid.

I will look at those bottles soon and find out what it says on the package.

So if the active ingredient dose is not indicated, you'd have to just experiment and guess with different doses. Also the issue of adding some kind of potassium supplement when taking the pills.

In any case, this is interesting and thanks to the poster who brought up the topic of Garcinia Cambogia.

Yes all true & if you search Garcinia Cambogia Extract on Google for US prices etc.

You see they all push the 50% or more HCA part as being important.

http://www.bestpricenutrition.com/foremost-supplements-super-citrimax-90-caps.html

[tropo]

Another thing I love about vegetables, in addition to the flavor, is that you can eat a high volume of them filling your belly with few calories. People are saying they aren't satisfied by vegetables. I don't really get that. Being American and growing up fat, this could also be a cultural thing. I expect to see a good amount of food on a plate and if it's on the plate, I generally eat it. It's something to work on.

I can eat a big plate of vegetables and be hungry again less than 2 hours later. Even if it's mixed with chicken breast. In actual fact this is a good indication that it is well digested, but I won't help if you're trying to cut back on meals. I'm not talking about high carb root vegetables such as potatoes, carrots etc.

Going back to our discussion about low carb diets before, it seems there's a lot of evidence to suggest that low carb diets do help to curb the appetite somewhat and this is why it works so well. Some say it's the extra fat, others think it's the extra protein... it could be both. The general consensus is that low carb diets do work for the majority of people but the actual reason why is still a matter of debate and in need of more research.

[poanoi]

Cant recall if i mentioned this, but,

i now eat kao pat moo where half of the rice is replaced with those frozen vegetables,

i recommend it.

I also try to replace some food with kefir made of 0% fat milk.

The hardest part is the disgusting protein shakes, beats me how to make it even semi ok,

what i do is to mix with as little milk as possible so i can swallow in a sip.

[Jingthing]

OK, I was overly pessimistic about the availability and dosage information on Garcinia in Thailand.

I was able to find a supply of 100 pills of 500 mg. Garcinia Cambogia with a claimed active ingredient content of 62 percent.

As far as I can tell it is only Garcina and not any Potassium Glutonate. Unfortunately. I wonder if Potassium Gluconate can be purchased here.

Anyway, for the Garcina the dosage should be easy to figure out based on this info:

http://garciniacambogiahca.com/garcinia-cambogia-dosage-for-weight-loss

From the package:

Take 2 capsules, twice daily, 1/2 hour before meals

That's a bit weird if you're eating three meals.

Also says HCA active ingredient:

Inhibit the accumulation of fat and promote the burning of access fat in the body (yes access!)

Increase the production of glycogen in the liver

Help curb appetite

[Jingthing]

OK, here goes.

I'm coming out with this now.

I have decided to be a guinea pig and try BOTH of these possible diet boosters at the same time!

I doubt there are any studies about doing them BOTH.

I reckon one or the other is not very risky, so I am hoping the same is true of using both, but I don't know.

So far the results have been more than encouraging.

Lost about 5 pounds this month and I would hope to be able to lose about 3.5 pound per month. I don't even want to lose as quickly as 5 pounds a month as I think that's too quick. Already fitting into some clothes I couldn't wear before. I have no idea if this will even work next month or whether there will be a side effect making me want to stop but it's working now.

I do not count portions or calories but my subjective estimate is that my portion size overall has been cut about 25 percent and I have stepped up my game a notch in avoiding obviously fattening foods like pizza. I have made a successful effort in decreasing starches and somewhat increasing protein. To me the most AMAZING result so far is a dramatic difference in feeling HUNGER. I don't feel it much and when I do it isn't as pressing as before. For example I have SOMETIMES skipped dinner meals (generally if my lunch meal turned out to be too big or rich/high fat for my current new hunger levels), slept, woken up, and not been famished. Of course eventually I'll become famished and I find it's helpful to avoid waiting for full scale big hunger because that results in eating more and eating quicker.

I don't think it is a good idea to frequently skip dinner meals so I am going to try harder to lower the lunch portion even more so that I do eat some dinner. Sometimes I feel hungry between lunch and dinner, and have a small snack like some fruit and some Kefir. I think it's best to keep the digestion going so the body doesn't think you're starving and then slow down metabolism too much. Though with this stuff I have been doing, something else is going on, and so far, it seems like a good thing. I have never felt this way on any "diet" I've ever been on.

I am not suggesting anyone else should try this, that it is necessarily safe, or that it would work for anyone else but me. But for now, this is working pretty dramatically for me. Not so much the weight loss, you can probably lose 5 pounds on the first month on a diet of marshmellows, but the dramatic change in perception of hunger and satiation. I reckon some people might think this perception is psychosomatic. I really don't think so, but so what if it was?

Also note and important to me. I am STILL very much enjoying my food. I would have little hope of doing anything LONG TERM that would involve not enjoying my food pretty much on a daily basis.

So what am I doing?

2 pills of Garcinia

Wait about 1/2 hour

Then 2 tablespoons apple cider vinegar

Than wait another 1/2 hour

Then eat.

Yes, that means getting prepared to eat for about an HOUR before actually eating.

The timing isn't critical. Sometimes shorter times, sometimes much longer times.

The feeling throughout the day doesn't seem to be impacted much by varying the timing. However, I wouldn't do the vinegar right before eating.

I made this protocol up myself.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Jingthing

[as7710423]

Yes, I have been following Apple cider vinegar diet. It helped to reduce belly fat. It also reduce obesity. I drank Apple cider vinegar mixed with lukewarm water every night. This also keeps blood sugar under control, which helps in weight loss.

[tonray]

9 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

why dig up a 7 year old thread

Perhaps he bought stock in Apple Cider VInegar company ?

[HappyGoLuckyLife]

Being that it helps with indigestion, blood pressure, controls hunger, and lowers blood sugar levels, why not give it a spin?