Victims In Delhi Rape Case Are To Blame, Defendants' Lawyer Says

[DaamNaam]

I don't know if India has laws against hate speech but the words of this lawyer can actually be classifed as hate speech !

Shocking !

Up until recently, I had thought that India was ahead of most Middle Eastern countries, regarding women's rights. I guess I had thought wrongly.

It's one man's (the lawyer) view, not all of India's. I think you'll find the majority of Indians are appalled at his comments.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts, racist posts, posts not using English and replies have been deleted.

[PMZ]

A disgusting state of affairs and India is foolish for allowing such a plea to even be entered, they know full well what the foreign media will do with that. India needs to drag itself away from this and many other draconian attitudes immediately.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Scott
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[Terryter]

Wonder what he gets upto in his spare time eh? There's a campaign on face book for the victim and the Indian Women population in general if anyone's interested

[khunken]

I don't know if India has laws against hate speech but the words of this lawyer can actually be classifed as hate speech !

Shocking !

Up until recently, I had thought that India was ahead of most Middle Eastern countries, regarding women's rights. I guess I had thought wrongly.

It's one man's (the lawyer) view, not all of India's. I think you'll find the majority of Indians are appalled at his comments.

Are they? There are protests - many of them, some turning violent unfortunately. But this is far from a majority of Indians.

The culture is archaic regarding women. Female foetuses are aborted in their thousands every day. It is a very patriarchical society. Women are traded - kidnapped, shipped to another part of the country for an unmarried male to buy. The skew in the male-female percentages of the population is getting worse.

The country requires a major re-education program to change the mindset as well as the tradition of the female's family paying a dowry to the male - one of the main reasons that female babies are unwanted.

However we mustn't forget that a Thai politician made similar remarks about the girl who was raped in Krabi.

[DaamNaam]

I don't know if India has laws against hate speech but the words of this lawyer can actually be classifed as hate speech !

Shocking !

Up until recently, I had thought that India was ahead of most Middle Eastern countries, regarding women's rights. I guess I had thought wrongly.

It's one man's (the lawyer) view, not all of India's. I think you'll find the majority of Indians are appalled at his comments.

Are they? There are protests - many of them, some turning violent unfortunately. But this is far from a majority of Indians.

The culture is archaic regarding women. Female foetuses are aborted in their thousands every day. It is a very patriarchical society. Women are traded - kidnapped, shipped to another part of the country for an unmarried male to buy. The skew in the male-female percentages of the population is getting worse.

The country requires a major re-education program to change the mindset as well as the tradition of the female's family paying a dowry to the male - one of the main reasons that female babies are unwanted.

However we mustn't forget that a Thai politician made similar remarks about the girl who was raped in Krabi.

All the Indian friends i have, and there are plenty, are appalled by this comment, and have said so is most of India.

[americaninbangkok]

I don't know what I feel worse about...

- the horrible state of the judicial system in India if this idiot attorney's defense strategy is accepted as valid reasoning

or

- the defendants who will surely hang (instead of getting 25-life in prison) based on this idiot attorney's defense strategy

[khunken]

I don't know if India has laws against hate speech but the words of this lawyer can actually be classifed as hate speech !

Shocking !

Up until recently, I had thought that India was ahead of most Middle Eastern countries, regarding women's rights. I guess I had thought wrongly.

It's one man's (the lawyer) view, not all of India's. I think you'll find the majority of Indians are appalled at his comments.

Are they? There are protests - many of them, some turning violent unfortunately. But this is far from a majority of Indians.

The culture is archaic regarding women. Female foetuses are aborted in their thousands every day. It is a very patriarchical society. Women are traded - kidnapped, shipped to another part of the country for an unmarried male to buy. The skew in the male-female percentages of the population is getting worse.

The country requires a major re-education program to change the mindset as well as the tradition of the female's family paying a dowry to the male - one of the main reasons that female babies are unwanted.

However we mustn't forget that a Thai politician made similar remarks about the girl who was raped in Krabi.

All the Indian friends i have, and there are plenty, are appalled by this comment, and have said so is most of India.

Wit all due respect, I remain unconvinced that all or even most of India is appalled. However, I'm prepared to wait & see.

[redcardave]

SHOCKING

[Morch]

Sharma is a self-styled "fight-the-power" kinda guy. Got a bit of a history when it comes to making controversial decelerations and making bogus legal moves. Mostly those "big" cases he's on come to nothing much, guess this one will be dismissed too (edit - not the case, but this line of reasoning). Think Amsterdam, and while at it note the RSS leader's statement (RSS has a thing or two in common with the Red Shirt movement).

Disregarding him and his remarks: I believe everyone got a right for a fair trial, legal representation and the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. The refusal to represent the accused should be denounced as well.

As for what "most of India" thinks about it - depends whom you ask, where and when. I'd venture a guess that most Indian friends quoted on this forum are somewhat more educated and open minded than the norm.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Morch

[bkk_mike]

Sicko lawyer represents sicko defendants.

A match made in heaven (somewhere else).

[Tanaka]

Bloody disgraceful.

The world is in deep shit if this gets accepted by Indian courts.

This blame-the-victim defence line is typical in muslim countries....and usually accepted by the court

India is not a muslim country.

[annabel]

Unbelievable, at least three of the attackers have Hindu surnames names (Singh), the lawyer assisting is Hindu and this topic has turned to a Muslim bashing session. FYI last year their were more than 600 rapes in Delhi, with only one conviction. This is what is causing the outrage, aside from the viciousness of the attack, plus the fact that passersby did not stop to assist the victims.

Apparently, as posted above, many in Indian society do not respect females, . It's not a solely Muslim related issue as 80+% are Hindus

You are 100 % correct !!

[annabel]

I don't know if India has laws against hate speech but the words of this lawyer can actually be classifed as hate speech !

Shocking !

Up until recently, I had thought that India was ahead of most Middle Eastern countries, regarding women's rights. I guess I had thought wrongly.

It's one man's (the lawyer) view, not all of India's. I think you'll find the majority of Indians are appalled at his comments.

I'm sorry to dissagree about this .. but it is not just 1 man's view and I can assure you that ,,, !! You need to do a little more research on men's attitude and views about woman in India in a population of over 1 billion people and you will retract your words...

[annabel]

Sharma is a self-styled "fight-the-power" kinda guy. Got a bit of a history when it comes to making controversial decelerations and making bogus legal moves. Mostly those "big" cases he's on come to nothing much, guess this one will be dismissed too (edit - not the case, but this line of reasoning). Think Amsterdam, and while at it note the RSS leader's statement (RSS has a thing or two in common with the Red Shirt movement).

Disregarding him and his remarks: I believe everyone got a right for a fair trial, legal representation and the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. The refusal to represent the accused should be denounced as well.

As for what "most of India" thinks about it - depends whom you ask, where and when. I'd venture a guess that most Indian friends quoted on this forum are somewhat more educated and open minded than the norm.

The Sharma's of India are in majority of the same mind as this Idiot!! Sharma is a name that gives me the creeps from many past experiences .. as well as Lal...

[stoli]

Why is it that these idiot lawyers win so many cases? I hope this isn't one of them...

[F430murci]

F'd up all over, not just India, Middle East, So. America. Even in the gold standard legal system of the USA, defense lawers attempt to disgrace and discredit the victims. Reruns of Law and Order must be on satellite everywhere..

I am not a criminal Defense law, but I do recall writing on this issue for a State Supreme Court Justice when I clerked back in the mid 90s. To my recollection, this is not the gold standard in the US and it is actually very difficult to place a rape vicitm or sexual assault victim's character at issue.

My recollection is generally can only be done that or those defendants had previously had consenesual sexual relations together to show he rasonably believed consent for the challeneged conduct or to show no contact with vicitm and that semen samples reveal she had sex withsomeone other than the accused.

Here is the Federal Rule and most states are patterned after Federal Rules. India is just messed up and, actually, no attorney worth their weight in salt would make such a statement unless there was a likelihood of a jury agreeing with such a statement. I also think that specific statement would be an ethical violaiton in US.

FRE 412 - Sex Offense Cases; Relevance of Alleged Victim's Past Sexual Behavior or Alleged Sexual Predisposition

(a) Evidence generally inadmissible.

The following evidence is not admissible in any civil or criminal proceeding involving alleged sexual misconduct except as provided in subdivisions ( and ©:

(1) Evidence offered to prove that any alleged victim engaged in other sexual behavior.

(2) Evidence offered to prove any alleged victim's sexual predisposition.

( Exceptions.

(1) In a criminal case, the following evidence is admissible, if otherwise admissible under these rules:

(A) evidence of specific instances of sexual behavior by the alleged victim offered to prove that a person other than the accused was the source of semen, injury, or other physical evidence;

( evidence of specific instances of sexual behavior by the alleged victim with respect to the person accused of the sexual misconduct offered by the accused to prove consent or by the prosecution; and

© evidence the exclusion of which would violate the constitutional rights of the defendant.

(2) In a civil case, evidence offered to prove the sexual behavior or sexual predisposition of any alleged victim is admissible if it is otherwise admissible under these rules and its probative value substantially outweighs the danger of harm to any victim and of unfair prejudice to any party. Evidence of an alleged victim's reputation is admissible only if it has been placed in controversy by the alleged victim.

© Procedure to determine admissibility.

(1) A party intending to offer evidence under subdivision ( must --

(A) file a written motion at least 14 days before trial specifically describing the evidence and stating the purpose for which it is offered unless the court, for good cause requires a different time for filing or permits filing during trial; and

( serve the motion on all parties and notify the alleged victim or, when appropriate, the alleged victim's guardian or representative.

(2) Before admitting evidence under this rule the court must conduct a hearing in camera and afford the victim and parties a right to attend and be heard. The motion, related papers, and the record of the hearing must be sealed and remain under seal unless the court orders otherwise.

Edited January 10, 2013 by F430murci

[crazydrummerpauly]

Was the clock turned back 100 years while i was sleeping ? But it's not much of a surprise in a chauvinist region - no, not India : about 75% of the countries in the world.

[Greer]

India MUST do something to correct the idiotic, out-dated and downright wrong thinking and attitudes that pervade so many of its people. Yes many Indians are in horror at this, but too many accept it as the normal way things are..

There are many many other wrongs that must be righted about that country, and I know the educated and considerate people agree - so why not start by fixing this outrage?

Make sure that the death of a woman at the hands of these murdering thugs is not allowed to pass without truly affecting the culture and thinking of the country - make an effort to at least attempt to do the right thing - find these mongrels guilty if that is what they are - but more than that - find the system guilty, because we already know that it is; the defence of such heinous crimes cannot be allowed to be based on arguments from the past, such as this.

Change is needed, and it is needed now.

[damo]

India is one very sad place, not only with the rapes that are common place, Indian men also engage in the practice of bride burning.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/taslima/2012/06/05/bride-burning/

[Scott]

Let's stay on the topic, please. Examples and further information are welcomed and appreciated, but the topic is quite specific and it is horrible enough by itself.

[Mosha]

May he be re born in the untouchable caste.

[gaucho]

the mental asylums in the 90s were full of women in india that were nothing more than rape victims ...many eventually went crazy after years of incarceration ....90% of rapes in india go unreported ....

[Credo]

The lawyers job is to defend his clients. They are the ones who are alleged to be the rapists and murderers. His statement must be appealing to a lot of the people in the country, otherwise he would not have said it.

[Habs]

This is disgusting..he should be strung up by his "gonads" if he has any...

[DaamNaam]

Bloody disgraceful.

The world is in deep shit if this gets accepted by Indian courts.

This blame-the-victim defence line is typical in muslim countries....and usually accepted by the court

India does not have Sharia law practiced in the courts, 80.5% Hindu & has fought three wars with with it's neighbouring Muslim country, Pakistan

Of course India is not muslim....I just pointed out that in many muslim countries the woman gets blamed for the rape.

...so.. India seems to have the same mindset..

And as the veil lifts the real infidels are unmasked.

[bigbamboo]

Remember it's a lawyer's job to defend the indefensible, though why anyone would want to defend these little shits is beyond me.

And you also have to remember that this is India and there are millions of Indians out there hoping they get off. The silence in some quarters is deafening.

Edited January 11, 2013 by bigbamboo

[rene123]

The American apache had far better methods of dealing with these evil creeps, and including the lawyer. Just executing them would be too simple. But, considering the country, they are likely to get off with just fines and a slap on the wrist.

[Morch]

The American apache had far better methods of dealing with these evil creeps, and including the lawyer. Just executing them would be too simple. But, considering the country, they are likely to get off with just fines and a slap on the wrist.

Very unlikely. They are not rich nor well-connected, and this got too big to dust under the carpet. Assuming they'll be found guilty they will be severely punished (even if it's not the death penalty). No one is going to risk taking the fall for these guys.

Remains to be seen how the outcome will effect India's enforcement and legal systems, and if it will contribute to any long term change in social perceptions regarding women, rape, legal procedure and rights.

[F430murci]

Remember it's a lawyer's job to defend the indefensible, though why anyone would want to defend these little shits is beyond me.

And you also have to remember that this is India and there are millions of Indians out there hoping they get off. The silence in some quarters is deafening.

There is a difference in defending an accused in a court room and going public and bashing every single poor woman that has been raped or sexually abused by stating they are trash and all deserved it.

I am a lawyer and this guy's statements offend me. Other lawyers at my office were appauld. His conduct and statements are inexcusable and sadly reflect a larger problem in India.

Sadly, if he said that around me or, worse, worked for me, I sadly would probably stoop almost to his level and break his orbital bones with an elbow. I would then tell him no self respecting scumbag lawyer ever gets the shape of their face permanently rearranged.