Hi All,

A number of you have been very helpful on previous threads in guiding me toward my first one-year retirement extension. I am going to apply soon but am concerned I may not get it due to insufficient "seasoning" of my THB 800K. So I have the following questions. I'm sure they have been touched on in one way or another on this site but I haven't found the focused information I need.

First, background: Over 50, came on 1 year non-O-A visa. Visa expired June 2012 but I re-entered in February 2012 so have permission to stay until Feb 2013. I moved THB 800K into a Thai account in late November 2012 so will have 60-day seasoning but not three-month seasoning prior to expiry of my permission. Although this will be my first application for extension, it is not quite clear, given my re-entry, and thus prolonged permission to stay, whether this will be an extension "for the first year only" within the meaning of s. 2.22 (4) of Police Order 777-2551. If not, three-month seasoning will be required and I will fail the test. Then I will need to use an alternate route. I might possibly be able to use the "combo" method but I assume not for purposes of this thread.

Questions:

1. I believe one alternative is to apply from outside Thailand for a non-immigrant O visa (which I believe will be for 90 days) and then apply in Thailand to extend it for 1 year (retirement). Precisely what would I need for the O visa application and is there a preferred port for it (Kuala Lumpur? Vientiane?).

2. I believe another route is to enter Thailand with a tourist visa and then apply in Thailand to extend it for 1 year (retirement). Again, precisely what is needed and what port is preferred?

3. Which of the above 2 alternatives is best?

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers,

TG

It will be your first extension of stay so you will only need money in bank for 60 days. Your visa entries do not count as an extension.

Don't worry about needing more than 60 days.

Ditto!

Does the money need to be "seasoned" for 60 days prior to the date of application for the first extension, not the date of the expiration of the permission to stay?

Just a minor point -- I guess the OP could apply for the extension on the date the current permission to stay expires, but most don't like cutting it that close. Best to do it a week or two early, so there's time to track down any "surprise" documents that might be requested.

Seasoning rules are always based on date of APPLICATION.

It will be your first extension of stay so you will only need money in bank for 60 days. Your visa entries do not count as an extension.

Don't worry about needing more than 60 days.

Ubanjoe and Wayned, thanks for your replies and that's reassuring. But please tell me, how certain are you - have you been in my situation and got extended based on 60 days seasoning only? If so how recent was that? Policies (or their interpretation by various offices) do shift and I want to be ready for any surprises, hence my questions about alternatives.

Has anyone else recently done the 60-day seasoning route successfully in a fact situation like mine? Any thoughts on my questions about alternatives?

Thanks!

TG

I think the advice that you are getting is based on current official WRITTEN rules that should be followed by all offices. The issue in your case is whether your first annual retirement extension done at Thai immigration will be seen as a FIRST time annual extension. The advice you are being given here is that it will. Assuming it will (which it should be), all offices should require two, not three months seasoning. However, your point that different offices may see things differently may possibly apply to this case as well. You should be seeking recent reports done at the SAME office you will use; those would be the most relevant to your situation. Your other alternative is if you want to have a higher confidence about this is to visit the immigration office you will be applying to and asking them. The trouble with that is that your question may be answered by someone who isn't actually a retirement extension officer. (So it might be wrong).

Edited January 19, 201313 yr by Jingthing

... if you want to have a higher confidence about this is to visit the immigration office you will be applying to and asking them. The trouble with that is that your question may be answered by someone who isn't actually a retirement extension officer. (So it might be wrong).

Hey Jingthing, thanks! I have the same concern as you about asking in advance so I think I'll just go in and try my luck when it's time to apply (it will be at Chiang Wattana in BKK). But that's why I want to be ready in case they say no. I won't have much time then. Do you have any thoughts on the questions I asked about alternatives in my original post?

Cheers

TG

Either method would work but the tourist visa would be an extra charge/trip and not needed as a visa exempt entry would work the same and you could do that immediately as no seasoning of funds required for conversion and then you would have the 90 days of the new visa entry that you acquire to complete the seasoning.

Would be interested in outcome in either case as it is a gray area in my mind and the O-A specifically was developed as a pre-approved extension of stay and was called that (what the "A" stands for). So now that immigration does not have to personally approve each request (as was the original policy) my also factor in to not make it an issue for the 'first application'.

Honestly, I didn't think this was as clear cut as ubonjoe does (two months seasoning in this scenario), so I guess we should be widely seeking reports to confirm the policy on this. There may not be all that many people with that actual scenario to expect many reports. They'd have to be O-A users and they'd have to be 800K baht account extenders. That eliminates lots of people, those who never bothered with an O-A, and those who use the income or combo qualification methods.

OK, here is the reason I didn't think it was quite clear Previously I had believed that as far as GRANDFATHERING which means when there is an immigration rules change like increase in financial requirements, that the general policy is that only applies to people ALREADY in the immigration system in Thailand. So in the case of O-A users, I HAD thought those people would not be potentially eligible for grandfathering until they go their first actual extension at Thai immigration office. Later I was told by an authority here, no, people on O-A would be seen as already being in the retirement system here and would be eligible for any grandfathering granted people already on extensions. I reckon you can figure out the connection I see between these two situations.

Edited January 19, 201313 yr by Jingthing

... a visa exempt entry would work the same and you could do that immediately as no seasoning of funds required for conversion and then you would have the 90 days of the new visa entry that you acquire to complete the seasoning.

Hey Lopburi3, thanks! Can you please clarify - by a "visa exempt entry" do you mean the first alternative in my original post, i.e. applying for a 90 day O-visa from outside Thailand, and then convert when back in Thailand?

I will definitely let the forum know the outcome of my 60-day seasoning application, which I expect to make in about 10 days.

TG

... if you want to have a higher confidence about this is to visit the immigration office you will be applying to and asking them. The trouble with that is that your question may be answered by someone who isn't actually a retirement extension officer. (So it might be wrong).

Hey Jingthing, thanks! I have the same concern as you about asking in advance so I think I'll just go in and try my luck when it's time to apply (it will be at Chiang Wattana in BKK). But that's why I want to be ready in case they say no. I won't have much time then. Do you have any thoughts on the questions I asked about alternatives in my original post?

Cheers

TG

Lucky your doing it in Bangkok......and not Korat immigration ....as it is 3 months seasoning for any money for retirement and that includes first time extensions and EVEN the part and part method.... .different rules up here, fact. they ignore the rule book..

Good luck hope it goes well for you..

I have just done my first retirement extention in khon kaen 60 days seasoning for the 800,000 no problems what so ever, staff friendy polite and very helpful.

... a visa exempt entry would work the same and you could do that immediately as no seasoning of funds required for conversion and then you would have the 90 days of the new visa entry that you acquire to complete the seasoning.

Hey Lopburi3, thanks! Can you please clarify - by a "visa exempt entry" do you mean the first alternative in my original post, i.e. applying for a 90 day O-visa from outside Thailand, and then convert when back in Thailand?

I will definitely let the forum know the outcome of my 60-day seasoning application, which I expect to make in about 10 days.

TG

Visa exempt would be a border crossing and return without visa (for the countries allowed this) so would be a 15 or 30 day stamp which you immediately convert to non immigrant 90 day stay at immigration using age/financial proof and the application form TM.86 or TM.87 (from visa exempt or tourist visa entry). Cost would be 2,000 baht at immigration.

Visa exempt would be a border crossing and return without visa (for the countries allowed this) so would be a 15 or 30 day stamp which you immediately convert to non immigrant 90 day stay at immigration using age/financial proof and the application form TM.86 or TM.87 (from visa exempt or tourist visa entry). Cost would be 2,000 baht at immigration.

Hey Lopburi, thanks for the clarification. I'm Canadian so I believe would get 30 days entry on an exempt basis. It looks to me I would use form TM.87 because if I enter I won't have any visa whereas TM.86 is for changing an existing visa. Is that correct? Also, would I need to do the exempt entry by air and would I need to show a return ticket out of Thailand for purposes of Immigration and/or the airline?

Cheers

TG

I have just done my first retirement extention in khon kaen 60 days seasoning for the 800,000 no problems what so ever, staff friendy polite and very helpful.

Hi Colinneil, that's good news - were you on a non-immigrant O-A prior to the extension or another kind of visa? If you were on O-A, had you prolonged your permission past the visa expiry date (i. e. past your initial 12 months) by doing re-entries while it was still current?

Cheers,

TG

... I was told by an authority here, no, people on O-A would be seen as already being in the retirement system here and would be eligible for any grandfathering granted people already on extensions. I reckon you can figure out the connection I see between these two situations.

Hi Jingthing, I get the connection and it fits in with what Lopburi3 said about the O-A having originally been conceived as a pre-approved extension. My feeling is that if the English translation of Police Order 777-2551 is accurate (i. e. the word "extension" is an accurate translation of the Thai counterpart) then it really makes no sense for Immigration to treat the O-A these days as an "extension" in itself, so my upcoming extension should be my first. The reason is that I got my O-A in Canada and it was the very first visa or permission of any kind I ever got, and I entered Thailand for the first time using it. It was not an "extension" of anything, as I had nothing at all before that. However, I realize that this analysis might not be shared by Thai Immigration, for whatever reason, maybe owing to history rather than the clear language of the police order.

Cheers,

TG

The O part of the O-A was your visa - the A part is Approved extension of stay for one year. But as said things have changed in the years since it first became available (including the extension start to be at the end of the first visa entry of 90 days for a full year - it used to start from visa entry date) so it is not a clear issue in my mind.

As for visa exempt entry yes you use the form for obtained visa rather than change. And it will be 15 days entry at a land border and that is the normal minimum time required for conversion so immediately visit immigration with application in that case. Most airline flights from local countries will not be a problem and no issue at immigration without onward ticket. A cheap discount ticket could be obtained at airport if required (leave time).

I do not recall any reports of the 60 day rule not being allowed for extending a permit to stay obtained from a OA visa.

A permit to stay from any visa entry would be the same it would not matter if was from the OA, O or even a B visa.

I do not recall any reports of the 60 day rule not being allowed for extending a permit to stay obtained from a OA visa.

A permit to stay from any visa entry would be the same it would not matter if was from the OA, O or even a B visa.

I agree that I also do not recall any such reports. Of course reports we get here are the tip of the iceberg, and probably most people starting extensions form an O-A are using income method/combo method or had three month seasoning 800K anyway! So I think the OP is correct to not feel fully confident about this.

It clearly will be his first extension of stay. He will be extending a permit to stay from a visa entry not an extension of stay.

He should just go to immigration with all the required documents when he has reached the 60 day mark and apply for the extension.

If denied he would have plenty of time to make a trip to Vientiane and get a single entry non O based upon being over 50 which is much better than getting a 15 day entry at border or flying out for a 30 day entry and going through the conversion process.

I also agree with that. Proceed AS IF this is going to work and I agree it probably will. However, I don't see 100 percent confidence in this case.

I have about 99.9% confidence.

I have about 99.9% confidence.

Good news then. Given that it's Bangkok for the OP and not Nakhon Sticksville, that probably helps the odds.

I agree, given that the OP has indicated he will be applying at BKK/CW, the 60 day period for bank funds seasoning of his first extension shouldn't be any problem.

However, as another aside, if the OP has any regular income of any kind (pension, rentals, stock market, CD/bank interest, etc etc.), he could do an embassy income letter for that income and then use the combination method (bank funds plus income) to qualify for his retirement extension. And at least in BKK, there's no seasoning of funds required when someone is using the combo method to qualify for a retirement extension.

And also, there's no rule about the proportion of funds involved in the combo method -- a person could use 90% funds in a Thai bank and 10% income funds, or 90% income funds and 10% funds in a Thai bank, or any combination thereof.

That approach would take the whole seasoning issue of the table entirely, and perhaps make him feel more relaxed going into his application at Immigration.

Edited January 20, 201313 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

I was in a similar, but not exactly the same, situation in October 2012 which was my 3rd annual extension.

I did not:

1. Have the 800K in the bank, only about 600K....and

2, That amount had NOT been "seasoned" for 3 months....and

3. My monthly pension/retirement income was less than the 65K monthly requirement.

So on one of my 90 day reporting visits (tn Chaeng Wattana Bangkok) I asked especially to speak to one of the supervisors about using the "combo" mefhod of combining Bank deposit and my pension.

She looked at the information I showed her and told me not to worry, when it came time for my annual extension I would have no problem.

My extension was approved on 15, October 2012 for another year until 15 October 2013.

My backup "plan B" anyhow was to go to Savannaket if needed, get a double entry 60 day tourist visa, and re-start the process from there.

But fortunately I never had to do that.

So which method did you use:

Combo method or 800K not seasoned for three months? (Assume it was seasoned for at least two.)

The no seasoning requirement for the combo method is well known, but sadly there are few outlying offices that don't accept that.

... If denied he would have plenty of time to make a trip to Vientiane and get a single entry non O based upon being over 50 which is much better than getting a 15 day entry at border or flying out for a 30 day entry and going through the conversion process.

Hey Ubonjoe, thanks. Exactly what documents would I need to get the single entry non O at Vientiane? I assume passport, bank book, TM87 (?) application form, photo, ... anything else? Bank letter?

TG

No TM.87 but the local office visa application form and 2,000 baht fee and photos/copies of any visa application. Being over age 50 is the key for issue (you plan to use to start retirement extensions in Thailand).

My backup "plan B" anyhow was to go to Savannaket if needed, get a double entry 60 day tourist visa, and re-start the process from there.

But fortunately I never had to do that.

But, getting a single entry Non Imm O would be a better alternative (saving you one trip to Immigration, and 2000 baht, for the conversion process). Ubonjoe says this can be done at Vientiane. Not so at Savannaket?