Pension

[Neeranam]

I want to start paying money into a pension fund. I want to work another 20 years.

Can anyone recommend a good one to do in Thailand?

I pay into the "prakan sang kom" or Thai social security but will not get enough when I'm retiring. I have only paid about 5 years into the UK one, from about 1985-1990.

Has anyone got experience with Citibank? I see they have 'retirement mutual funds' and 'long-term equity funds'. I really haven't a clue about these things but need to start somewhere - thanks

[maprao]

Google Generali International. Look at "vision"

Also go online and pay voluntary class 3 contributions and buy 25 years of pension. You can back pay 6 years then pay your contributions once a year to ensure you have tbe full 30 years required in the uk

Edited January 21, 2013 by maprao

[AyG]

The benefit of a UK private pension is that it attracts tax relief on contributions. If you have been non-resident for less than 5 full tax years you can make annual contributions of up to GBP 3,600 and still get that tax relief - even if you have no UK income. (The rules if you have UK income are a bit more complicated.) Consequently, if you've newly non-resident it makes a lot of sense to contribute to UK private pension - not any other sort of investment.

So-called "offshore pensions" don't provide any sort of tax relief, but typically have high charges, so are (in my opinion) a total waste of time. The OP should therefore be looking at a low cost investment. Given that the timescale to retirement is long - 20 years - a relatively high weighting in equities would be in order (but with diversification in other asset classes including bonds and commercial property). This could be achieved by using collective investments (mutual funds/unit trusts/OEICS) or (more cheaply) ETFs.

LTEs and RMFs are Thai wrappers around mutual funds that provide some tax advantages - though the range of funds is limited. You'll need to read up on the limits on the amounts of money you can put into these funds, the tie-up period and the tax advantages to decide if these are right for you. And if they are, you should look at the Aberdeen offerings in this area. See http://www.aberdeen-asset.com/aam.nsf/Thailand/fundsprices. In my opinion, Aberdeen is the best of a fairly mediocre bunch operating in Thailand.

However, I would say that the most important thing at the moment is for the OP to become more knowledgeable about this whole area.

[AyG]

Also go online and pay voluntary class 3 contributions and buy 25 years of pension. You can back pay 6 years then pay your contributions once a year to ensure you have tbe full 30 years required in the uk

Under government plans for a flat rate pension, the 30 year requirement for a full pension is going up to 35, I believe. And if you're going to retire to Thailand (or many other countries), the ultimate pension won't rise with inflation after you start taking it. Add on the fact that if you die before retirement age (and plenty of people do die before 68) you don't get any of the money back, this is not a route I'd personally want to go down.

[ExpatJ]

Google Generali International. Look at "vision"

Also go online and pay voluntary class 3 contributions and buy 25 years of pension. You can back pay 6 years then pay your contributions once a year to ensure you have tbe full 30 years required in the uk

He last paid nat. insurance in 1990 , and there is a cut off number of years after which you are no longer allowed to pay/buy back missed years- cant remember the figure. I havent paid national insurance since 1997 and when i asked them recently if i can pay the missed years- it was no go.

[topt]

Google Generali International. Look at "vision"

Also go online and pay voluntary class 3 contributions and buy 25 years of pension. You can back pay 6 years then pay your contributions once a year to ensure you have tbe full 30 years required in the uk

He last paid nat. insurance in 1990 , and there is a cut off number of years after which you are no longer allowed to pay/buy back missed years- cant remember the figure. I havent paid national insurance since 1997 and when i asked them recently if i can pay the missed years- it was no go.

maprao mentions the figures above - last 6 years. He would not be able to pay for the missing/intervening years but, under the current guidelines would get a %age of the final amount. This of course depends on what further changes may be made to the system in 20 years time. Will there still be a system.......

So you would also have to balance out if it was worth paying for what you may get back - an almost impossible calculation I would suggest for that amount of time so far ahead.

[topt]

Google Generali International. Look at "vision"

Also go online and pay voluntary class 3 contributions and buy 25 years of pension. You can back pay 6 years then pay your contributions once a year to ensure you have tbe full 30 years required in the uk

If you are going to look at Generali suggest you look up the motley Fool discussion boards and the board for International Expat Investments.

I have not read most of it but some long running threads on there about this company and I do not think it was positive - but DYOR.

[PattayaPhom]

Google Generali International. Look at "vision"

Also go online and pay voluntary class 3 contributions and buy 25 years of pension. You can back pay 6 years then pay your contributions once a year to ensure you have tbe full 30 years required in the uk

If you are going to look at Generali suggest you look up the motley Fool discussion boards and the board for International Expat Investments.

I have not read most of it but some long running threads on there about this company and I do not think it was positive - but DYOR.

Generali in the early Millenium was a fantastic fund, many expat US invested whilst in Mexico after 9/11...its pushed by most offshore advisors...OP should really make use of his tax relef in the UK, as stated 3,600 Sterling a year attracting 20% relief isnt that bad....at 55 can take 25% TFC although annuities are at an all time low and are unlikely to rise in the near future if at all.

[fletchsmile]

Personally as an expat living and working in Thailand I would (and have stayed) away from UK pensions unless your employer is matching your contribution, and you're getting money that would otherwise be lost. The goal posts are continually moving on UK pensions, eg When I started the pension I could draw the money at 50, that's now 55, so an extra 5 years wait for my own money. I do have UK pension schemes but have not added to them since leaving the UK, and with the exception of one defined benefit scheme, I brought the others under a SIPP with Hargreaves Lansdown - good value for money. UK pensions aren't particularly flexible

Don't forget that although you get tax relief on a UK pension up front, it could be taxable at the other end. The state pension takes up most of people's tax free allowances already.

A key part of my strategy was buying LTFs in Thailand = Thai tax wrapper and tax relief of up to 37%. I've maxed out on these every year I could. These need to be largely in Thai equities, but as someone living in Thailand and with a long term investing horizon, and need for THB assets they make a lot of sense. You also only need to invest for 5 calendar years (you can manipulate to 3 years plus a couple of days either side if you want - but as they're long term no need even for that).

This is a massive advantage over UK pensions. After 5 years you've had the tax relief and have full access to your money to do whatever you want. If you really must have a UK pension for some reason you could first invest in an LTF, then when it matures, park it in a UK pension fund and get UK tax relief on it again so you've effectively got UK tax relief on your Thai tax relief. Or you could stick in a Thai Retirment Mutual Fund (RMF) for tax relief again or just another fund. That tax relief for just 5 years makes it a great choice for most people. You're talking 6 or 7%+ return per annum on the tax relief for most people, before even considering fund performance

If using LTFs (in my view the best all round investments I've made in Thailand) - you can switch funds after 5 years so you don't become overly dependent on Thai equities, eg buy a gold fund, emerging markets fund, bond fund, etc

RMFs also give you tax rellief like RMFs. I've never bothered with these as again you tie your money up till age 55. For someone who may leave Thailand or may want the money for something else before that the inflexibility doesn't suit. So for foreigners and 10-15 years away or more from retirement they're questionnable. On the other hand there are a wider range of Thai RMFs than LTFs, eg gold funds, foreign equities etc so a wider investment choice. Their advantage over a UK pension is that at age 55 the entire pot of money is yours to be taken tax free. No need to buy an annuity, stick in a costly QROPs, limit yourself to income drawdown or so on

For me it was all about acheiving financial independence on my terms as and when I want it. LTFs helped contribute to doing that. So I could hit that goal much earlier than a UK pension where you need to wait until 55, and are the mercy of government regulations. I also watched my father die 4 years after retiring, and think of all he could have done with the money before that, not to mention 50% lost on buying an annuity...my mum gets half the annuity rate as it was joint life...

[maprao]

Google Generali International. Look at "vision"

Also go online and pay voluntary class 3 contributions and buy 25 years of pension. You can back pay 6 years then pay your contributions once a year to ensure you have tbe full 30 years required in the uk

If you are going to look at Generali suggest you look up the motley Fool discussion boards and the board for International Expat Investments.

I have not read most of it but some long running threads on there about this company and I do not think it was positive - but DYOR.

My funds under the "Generali Vision" are doing pretty well vs what I have paid in.

Also as far as Class three go for me going back 6 years to the tax year 2006-2007. I bought a whole years contributions for 392.60 Pounds Sterling (7.55 pounds per week) . I have 21 years fully paid up class 1 prior to this with a 9 year break. I may be dead by 68 but if I am not I will get the full flat rate. My Occupational Pension at 60 added to the Generali Fund to do with what I will when it finishes. Other than that I have no crystal ball but I have covered all bases as best I can

Edited January 22, 2013 by maprao

[Neeranam]

Google Generali International. Look at "vision"

Also go online and pay voluntary class 3 contributions and buy 25 years of pension. You can back pay 6 years then pay your contributions once a year to ensure you have tbe full 30 years required in the uk

Thanks - I see that the class 3 contributions are 13 pounds a week. Now, I'm going to see how much that would get me if I choose to put the same amount elsewhere.

[Neeranam]

The benefit of a UK private pension is that it attracts tax relief on contributions. If you have been non-resident for less than 5 full tax years you can make annual contributions of up to GBP 3,600 and still get that tax relief - even if you have no UK income. (The rules if you have UK income are a bit more complicated.) Consequently, if you've newly non-resident it makes a lot of sense to contribute to UK private pension - not any other sort of investment.

So-called "offshore pensions" don't provide any sort of tax relief, but typically have high charges, so are (in my opinion) a total waste of time. The OP should therefore be looking at a low cost investment. Given that the timescale to retirement is long - 20 years - a relatively high weighting in equities would be in order (but with diversification in other asset classes including bonds and commercial property). This could be achieved by using collective investments (mutual funds/unit trusts/OEICS) or (more cheaply) ETFs.

LTEs and RMFs are Thai wrappers around mutual funds that provide some tax advantages - though the range of funds is limited. You'll need to read up on the limits on the amounts of money you can put into these funds, the tie-up period and the tax advantages to decide if these are right for you. And if they are, you should look at the Aberdeen offerings in this area. See http://www.aberdeen-...and/fundsprices. In my opinion, Aberdeen is the best of a fairly mediocre bunch operating in Thailand.

However, I would say that the most important thing at the moment is for the OP to become more knowledgeable about this whole area.

Thanks - I'm unsure about tax relief - I only pay about 1500 baht a month on tax here - are you saying that if I pay into such a pension fund I can pay less tax here?

You are correct - the most important thing is for me to become more knowledgeable, which isn't hard as I know nothing!

What are LTEs and RMFs?

I'm looking at Aberdeen now. I always thought they were an Aberdonian company, as I come from there!

[Neeranam]

Personally as an expat living and working in Thailand I would (and have stayed) away from UK pensions unless your employer is matching your contribution, and you're getting money that would otherwise be lost. The goal posts are continually moving on UK pensions, eg When I started the pension I could draw the money at 50, that's now 55, so an extra 5 years wait for my own money. I do have UK pension schemes but have not added to them since leaving the UK, and with the exception of one defined benefit scheme, I brought the others under a SIPP with Hargreaves Lansdown - good value for money. UK pensions aren't particularly flexible

Don't forget that although you get tax relief on a UK pension up front, it could be taxable at the other end. The state pension takes up most of people's tax free allowances already.

A key part of my strategy was buying LTFs in Thailand = Thai tax wrapper and tax relief of up to 37%. I've maxed out on these every year I could. These need to be largely in Thai equities, but as someone living in Thailand and with a long term investing horizon, and need for THB assets they make a lot of sense. You also only need to invest for 5 calendar years (you can manipulate to 3 years plus a couple of days either side if you want - but as they're long term no need even for that).

This is a massive advantage over UK pensions. After 5 years you've had the tax relief and have full access to your money to do whatever you want. If you really must have a UK pension for some reason you could first invest in an LTF, then when it matures, park it in a UK pension fund and get UK tax relief on it again so you've effectively got UK tax relief on your Thai tax relief. Or you could stick in a Thai Retirment Mutual Fund (RMF) for tax relief again or just another fund. That tax relief for just 5 years makes it a great choice for most people. You're talking 6 or 7%+ return per annum on the tax relief for most people, before even considering fund performance

If using LTFs (in my view the best all round investments I've made in Thailand) - you can switch funds after 5 years so you don't become overly dependent on Thai equities, eg buy a gold fund, emerging markets fund, bond fund, etc

RMFs also give you tax rellief like RMFs. I've never bothered with these as again you tie your money up till age 55. For someone who may leave Thailand or may want the money for something else before that the inflexibility doesn't suit. So for foreigners and 10-15 years away or more from retirement they're questionnable. On the other hand there are a wider range of Thai RMFs than LTFs, eg gold funds, foreign equities etc so a wider investment choice. Their advantage over a UK pension is that at age 55 the entire pot of money is yours to be taken tax free. No need to buy an annuity, stick in a costly QROPs, limit yourself to income drawdown or so on

For me it was all about acheiving financial independence on my terms as and when I want it. LTFs helped contribute to doing that. So I could hit that goal much earlier than a UK pension where you need to wait until 55, and are the mercy of government regulations. I also watched my father die 4 years after retiring, and think of all he could have done with the money before that, not to mention 50% lost on buying an annuity...my mum gets half the annuity rate as it was joint life...

Thanks - some interesting thoughts here. I don't mind if the cash is tied up until I'm 55, which isn't actually that long - 8 years. Ideally, I'd like something that gives me a lot of freedom to how much I pay monthly. The nature of my work means that some months are much better than others. Also, I'm buying a house this year with a morgage. The bank(thanachat) have offered me some stuff for pensions but I doubt it is the best idea.

I like the idea of a mutual fund, but just starting to investigate exactly what they are.

[fletchsmile]

Thanks - some interesting thoughts here. I don't mind if the cash is tied up until I'm 55, which isn't actually that long - 8 years. Ideally, I'd like something that gives me a lot of freedom to how much I pay monthly. The nature of my work means that some months are much better than others. Also, I'm buying a house this year with a morgage. The bank(thanachat) have offered me some stuff for pensions but I doubt it is the best idea.

I like the idea of a mutual fund, but just starting to investigate exactly what they are.

Mutual funds is a US term very similar to what people in the UK call unit trusts.

With the additional info you've given on age, amounts, etc the diffs on Thai LTFs and RMFs are marginal. LTFs = shorter holding term. RMF more choice. Both are more flexible than UK pensions, as you can take the whole pot in cash when they mature should you want to. LTFs and RMFs are really just unit trusts with a tax wrapper for extra value. You won't save a great deal on tax with the amounts you're paying, but every bit helps. You can invest the lower of 15% of your salary or 500k per year in each, and get tax relief at your tope rate. (Looks like 10% in your case).

On the amounts involved stay away from anything that is inflexible, and that doesn't let you stop and start as you please. Stay away from IFAs asking you to put it in offshore portfolio bonds.

Aberdeen is in my view the best fund manager in Thailand for unit trusts/ mutual funds. Charges are reasonable at aroung 1% - 1.5% up front and 1.8% per annum. We hold:

Aberdeen LTF

Aberdeen Growth = have held this since 1998, with average annualised returns of 20%, but in the worst year down 40% and best up just over 100% (doubled). If you're looking long term (which you say you are) and can accept the risk they make sense. Not suitable for short term or quick profits

Aberdeen Emerging Markets

Aberdeen Asia Pacific

Aberdeen World Opportunities

Aberdeen Global Emerging bond funds

I also rate their European fund, but don't hold it as we have others. They do a US fund but I don't rate it.

The minimum is usually THB 5k a month I think, so you could pick one each month and spread your investments around. Website as follows

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/aam.nsf/Thailand/fundsprices

You can then put some in a gold fund such as MFC global or TMB global, to diversify a little more. Again they are around 5-10k minimum, so you could put

say 5% of your money here. Quite easy to build a diversified portfolio in Thailand on smaller amounts at GBP 100 a time, and reasonable charges

http://www.mfcfund.com/

http://www.tmbam.com/v2/en/mutualFundsCat.php?catid=0&btnSubmit=Submit

Hargreaves Lansdowwn do some good free guides. I've been with them for over 20 years. Their "investing in your 40's" may be useful as a start

https://www.hl.co.uk/free-guides/investing-in-your-40s

There's also a lot fo other useful guides on there, and there's no substitute for educating yourself. The main things to bear in mind with their guides is they are intended largely for UK. You need to think a bit that if based in Thailand, you may want a larger allocation in THB and Thai assets than someone in UK. Afterall this is home not the UK, and you need some protection vs exchange rates. The longer term trend is GBP weakiening vs THB in my view, hence why Aberdeen Growth is my favourite fund = good performance, Thai equities (for longer term investment and to hopefull outpace inflation), THB exposure for currency

[AyG]

Thanks - I'm unsure about tax relief - I only pay about 1500 baht a month on tax here - are you saying that if I pay into such a pension fund I can pay less tax here?

You are correct - the most important thing is for me to become more knowledgeable, which isn't hard as I know nothing!

What are LTEs and RMFs?

I'm looking at Aberdeen now. I always thought they were an Aberdonian company, as I come from there!

1. No, paying into a UK private pension doesn't reduce your tax in Thailand. The way it works is that for every GBP 80 you put into your pension (up to the limit), the government adds another GBP 20 as "tax relief" - even if you haven't paid any tax in the UK. That seems astoundingly good value to me.

2. LTEs and RMFs are a kind of investment in (usually) the shares of a whole bunch of companies (thus spreading the risk should one or more of the companies go bankrupt). The investment is locked up for a certain period (5 years and to retirement age respectively), and in return for this commitment the Thai government grants tax relief on the investments.

3. Aberdeen is headquartered in Scotland, but has research and investment operations across the globe. It has a particularly strong track record of investing in Asia.

[Neeranam]

Thanks - I'm unsure about tax relief - I only pay about 1500 baht a month on tax here - are you saying that if I pay into such a pension fund I can pay less tax here?

You are correct - the most important thing is for me to become more knowledgeable, which isn't hard as I know nothing!

What are LTEs and RMFs?

I'm looking at Aberdeen now. I always thought they were an Aberdonian company, as I come from there!

1. No, paying into a UK private pension doesn't reduce your tax in Thailand. The way it works is that for every GBP 80 you put into your pension (up to the limit), the government adds another GBP 20 as "tax relief" - even if you haven't paid any tax in the UK. That seems astoundingly good value to me.

2. LTEs and RMFs are a kind of investment in (usually) the shares of a whole bunch of companies (thus spreading the risk should one or more of the companies go bankrupt). The investment is locked up for a certain period (5 years and to retirement age respectively), and in return for this commitment the Thai government grants tax relief on the investments.

3. Aberdeen is headquartered in Scotland, but has research and investment operations across the globe. It has a particularly strong track record of investing in Asia.

Hi and thanks for answering some questions.

Are you saying that if I pay into certain pensions, the UK government will ADD GBP 20? Surely this can't be true? Or is this only the government pension?

I notice that Aberdeen don't have any representative in Khon Kaen. I've written to them asking for advice.

[AyG]

Thanks - I'm unsure about tax relief - I only pay about 1500 baht a month on tax here - are you saying that if I pay into such a pension fund I can pay less tax here?

You are correct - the most important thing is for me to become more knowledgeable, which isn't hard as I know nothing!

What are LTEs and RMFs?

I'm looking at Aberdeen now. I always thought they were an Aberdonian company, as I come from there!

1. No, paying into a UK private pension doesn't reduce your tax in Thailand. The way it works is that for every GBP 80 you put into your pension (up to the limit), the government adds another GBP 20 as "tax relief" - even if you haven't paid any tax in the UK. That seems astoundingly good value to me.

2. LTEs and RMFs are a kind of investment in (usually) the shares of a whole bunch of companies (thus spreading the risk should one or more of the companies go bankrupt). The investment is locked up for a certain period (5 years and to retirement age respectively), and in return for this commitment the Thai government grants tax relief on the investments.

3. Aberdeen is headquartered in Scotland, but has research and investment operations across the globe. It has a particularly strong track record of investing in Asia.

Hi and thanks for answering some questions.

Are you saying that if I pay into certain pensions, the UK government will ADD GBP 20? Surely this can't be true? Or is this only the government pension?

I notice that Aberdeen don't have any representative in Khon Kaen. I've written to them asking for advice.

Free money from the UK government? I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. It applies to contributions to private pensions, and is up to an annual limit of GBP 3000. (That figure is after you add the government's contribution to yours.)

You mention that you've written to Aberdeen "asking for advice". Be aware that Aberdeen won't give you any sort of investment advice - they can only advise on how to invest with their offerings, and won't comment on the suitability of these. You may do better (and certainly faster) by posting your question(s) here.

[maprao]

Google Generali International. Look at "vision"

Also go online and pay voluntary class 3 contributions and buy 25 years of pension. You can back pay 6 years then pay your contributions once a year to ensure you have tbe full 30 years required in the uk

Thanks - I see that the class 3 contributions are 13 pounds a week. Now, I'm going to see how much that would get me if I choose to put the same amount elsewhere.

Hard to measure what you will get. More of an unknown safety net. If you end up back in the UK as an OAP you will be getting the full amount whatever that maybe. I never believe the safety net will disappear in the UK. I consider it a back up of a back up. For my planning that money is written off. It is a just in case....I live that long and the ***** hits the fan.

It is a relatively small amount of money to part with to ensure you are getting what everyone else is getting if you need it.

Edited January 25, 2013 by maprao

[12DrinkMore]

Email or write to the NHS and get a pension projection and a statement showing how much you need to pay for each year you have missed and how much you need to pay in to get a full UK state pension.

Then assess whether it is worth paying in.

Only you can decide, but at the moment 30 years contributions will give you a full UK state pension. I have paid the extra contributions and am fully paid up.

The main issue is that once you receive the pension there are no more inflation increments if you live in Thailand.

This may change, or you may go to live in the Philippines or other factors could occur. There is also current possibility of delaying you pension and still getting the increments.

IMO a fully paid up UK state pension is worth buying into. It is a lot cheaper to pay the voluntary contributions as an expat than the obligatory contributions if you work in the UK.

[yoshiwara]

To the Op re the period 20 years.....

I am in a final salary pension scheme. Every year gets you 1/80 of the multiplier of your final salary.

I asked a colleague, 'are you in the pension scheme?' Yes.

'Just pay in the basic 6%? Yes

'Any idea what you might get at the end?' No.

'So how many years service do you think you will do before you retire?' About 20.

'So how much will your salary be at the end do you think, in real terms? We agreed about 60,000 pounds.

Whirrr-whirrr. OK I said that will get you 20/80 * 60,000 = 15,000 pounds per annum.

His face went white with dismay.

[fletchsmile]

On the UK pension aspect, please bear in mind:

1) For private pensions:

It's not automatic that anyone can just pay in and claim tax relief. There's a concept of "UK relevant individual". As usual with the UK govt there are conditions and catches. Not sure if the link below is up to date, but gives the gist

http://www.hmrc.gov....psm05101140.htm

2) For the State Pension:

Check if you can pay class 2 contributions. They are much cheaper than the Class 3 contributions above. GBP 2.65 vs the GBP 13.25 mentioned above. In many cases people are needlessly paying Class 3 when they could pay Class 2. (I'd suggest the posters above also check if it could apply to them, as the UK govt isn't great at looking after your interests) I can see the argument for paying 137 quid a year to keep things going, but I'm much less convinced at the Class 3 rate. Page 9 or so of the link below.

http://www.hmrc.gov....s/nico/ni38.pdf

Be careful also the number of years NI you pay. A lot of people got caught when the govt changed the rules to shorten the number of years to qualify for maximum state pension. Last time round people were p****d off that they's paid voluntary contributions to make up to 40+years and then it was reduced to only 30 needed. Overnight some people found out that paying those voluntary years for all that time was a waste of time and money.

Edited January 25, 2013 by fletchsmile

[mccw]

Great informations here.

Maybe I'll change my mind and pay the voluntary contributions.

I have a question. My wife will come to be UK citizen this year. We have 2 kids. Can she get the gov pension contributions due to children? 18 years is it?

[breadbin]

If you are a Brit then at present you need 30 years NI stamp to get a full pension at retirement age.

Paying into a private pension fund for 20 years, you will need to pay a lot in pet month to get any kind of decent return.

IMO you should pay your NI stamps in UK so you accrue the full amount if years. This way you guarantee a pension.

If you opt only for a private scheme and that goes belly up you are in shizen street.

Take advice and look at direct gov UK before its too late.

Good luck

[breadbin]

Further, if you qualify for child benefit in UK, have it paid to your wife. She'll accrue state pension that way.

[mccw]

Further, if you qualify for child benefit in UK, have it paid to your wife. She'll accrue state pension that way.

The child benefit is paid to me because when first arrive UK she had no right to remain or any right to public funds. Now she has Indefinate leave to remain and will become citizen this year. She has NI number ands filed a couple of tax returns but no employment or tax able income and not claimed any benefits; not paid any NI contributions either. I've only paid a couple of years many years ago when working for the man;) , but am self employed now however haven't paid the voluntary contributions. Other than the CB I don't take any benefits or tax credits or anything. I was always of the thinking not to rely on state or private companies; but just starting to ponder if the State pension might not be a bad, not too expensive, addition to the self reliance plan.

[rsokolowski]

Make sure to compare the fees that the funds charge, on whatever retirement fund you eventually chose.