Tobacco Farming

[Dancealot]

Hi all, it is tobacco and garlic season for me. And i am a newbie at this and i am looking for harvesting information because the planting has all been done 30 days ago and i will be involved with harvesting.

I have a specific interest in tobacco and am curious if anyone here has been involved with tobacco harvesting, transport and hanging the leaves to dry?

[Mosha]

idk but I did find this if it helps DL...

Tobacco is a heavy feeder and if grown continuously in the same spot will deplete the nutrients in the soil. So to counteract this it is wise to employ a 2 year rotation in your growing space by planting 2 years in a specific location and waiting a year or more before you plant your tobacco back into that location again. Tobacco also requires good amounts of nitrogen and potash both of which can be achieved with a good compost but we recommend a good garden fertilizer if you do not have or use compost.

[wolf5370]

Might be interesting to note that nocotene from tabacco plants can also be used to cure smoking (patches etc) - and is being trialled to help ADHT sufferes, alzheimers and for post-surgical pain treatment. Soya beans can be used to make ricin which is a truely awful poison used in bio-terroism - many things can have both good and bad uses - is it the farmer that is at fault, he sells tabacco leaves, not cigars and cigarettes. Steel workers make carbon steel that could be turned into guerneys and operating table parts or firearms.

[wolf5370]

Dancealot, I'm interested. My wife's grandmother used to own a plantantion (about 5 fields worth - 30 or so rai I guess) of tobacco - the kind that they make them god-awful northern cigars out of. She used to get help in to hang it out for drying - using lots of newspaper for laying if I remember right (twas a time ago now - maybe 15 odd years or so). So, I'm interested - is the tobacco the same stuff - guess there are many varieties - would overseas buyers be interested or is it strictly local/national consumption? I presume tobacco industry itself buys either from conglomerated stock via wholesale middle-men or from owned farms - in either case, does Thailand have a hand in that (thinking more of American tobacco really). Just interested - no need to give away trade secrets

[Dancealot]

Dancealot, I'm interested. My wife's grandmother used to own a plantantion (about 5 fields worth - 30 or so rai I guess) of tobacco - the kind that they make them god-awful northern cigars out of. She used to get help in to hang it out for drying - using lots of newspaper for laying if I remember right (twas a time ago now - maybe 15 odd years or so). So, I'm interested - is the tobacco the same stuff - guess there are many varieties - would overseas buyers be interested or is it strictly local/national consumption? I presume tobacco industry itself buys either from conglomerated stock via wholesale middle-men or from owned farms - in either case, does Thailand have a hand in that (thinking more of American tobacco really). Just interested - no need to give away trade secrets

There are many different kinds of tobacco but roll tobacco, cigar tobacco and ready cigarettes are all made from the same ingredients.

For example Marlboro or any other cheaper brand are made from the same tobacco. The trick is to add 'flavours' during the production process.

I cannot show the productions process pictures, unfortunately.

Lots are being bought buy the tonne from underdeveloped counties, this means pallets full of tobacco leaves enter the cigarette factory. So to make some profit you need quite a few rai of land.

Bangladesh is a hot producer currently.

[Dancealot]

Back on topic, Dancelot, I have never grown tobacco but I've seen the operations. All I can say is that the curing sheds are huge and humidity controlled. I also know that most smoking products are a blend of tobaccos, not that you couldn't sell a single variety.

I would say that job one is to research how much space and what conditions you'll need for curing. The two biggest growing states in the US are Kentucky and N. Carolina, neither of which is as warm or humid as LOS. Although the US is the world's largest producer, I don't know of much that's grown in the deep South were it's warmer and more humid, more similar to LOS. For that reason, I don't know what it will take to cure it without rotting it.

I would try to get a look at someone else's operation. I'd speculate that they have a lot of fans to move moisture out, but I don't know.

Good luck!

Humidity control in LOS

[xen]

Hi Dancealot , Getting back to the original post about growing tobacco , there would be a couple of considerations.

i am not too sure about Thailand but in Australia, to grow more than a certain number of tobacco plants you need to be licensed . This is because the government insists on collecting taxation revenue from tobacco and they want their cut. I would imagine there is a government department in Thailand who would also want a "fee" if you are growing over a set amount.

Also tobacco shares a lot of virus and diseases with other crops, especially anything from the Solanaceae family. This family includes tomatoes,potatoes, capsicum,chillis ,eggplants and so on. Tobacco wilt is one that is particularly nasty and is difficult to contain and remains in the soil for close to forever. This is why you should not take tobacco into a tomato hothouse unless you want to be lynched.

Tobacco itself (Nicotiana spp) is a very attractive plant as is sometimes grown as an ornamental but has the same problem as introducing nasty diseases into other related crops, and vice versa as well . If other food crops are being grown nearby, perhaps you should consider the ramifications.

[cooked]

Until recently tobacco growing in Switzerland was subsidised by the government. This because it became an essential item during the war, it stills hunger. Since the subsidy was removed, many people stopped farming it, sort of a shame because it was an integral part of village life in some parts, all the kids went picking tobacco at least once.

I saw quite small parcels being cultivated up near Lampang recently, so it must be possible to get a license or something.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go for it myself, very labour intensive plus the need for a curing house. The area where I lived then was amongst the most fertile in Switzerland and a crop rotation took place.

[Dancealot]

Thanks for the background info everyone. Anyone physically picked tobacco leaves and processed them in Thailand?

[TommoPhysicist]

Pick the leaves when ripe (I don't pick, so don't know about that)

Transport back to the farmyard.

Strip out the backbone of the leaf.

Bundle into 1 or 2 Kg rolls, and leave in the shed, or under the farmhouse for 3 days.

Put through the shredding machine.

Lay out on trays (like stretchers) in the sun, turning every half day, collect and stack in the shed overnight.

Usually takes about 2-3 days of sunshine to dry.

Put finished shredded and dried tobacco in big plastic bags and leave outside in the morning for the collection agency to buy.

Hanging and selling whole leaf is a different game, haven't a clue.

[NeverSure]

One thing that surprises me in LOS is the lack of "value added" thinking. Farmers seem to grow things to sell to someone else who then makes most of the profit. I do see some small farmers sell their products directly to the public if they grow smaller quantities.

The people who make the money are the tobacco companies who buy the tobacco, not the growers. So I wonder if it is legal to prepare the tobacco and sell it to those who chew or roll their own, or to a merchant who has such a shop? Probably not? Probably those people have the legal part sewn up?

On the ranch where I grew up we would never have even considered selling alfalfa hay to a rancher or a dairy. We fed it to our own cattle and sold them. We butchered a lot and sold meat by the 1/2 or whole steer to private parties for much more than the wholesalers would pay on the hoof.

We made lot of money selling prime breeding stock. When selling a prized bull the value of a pound of meat goes out the window and the value is in what the bull can produce in high quality cattle. I remember selling a bull 30 years ago for $US15,000. We could get $500 just to let someone drop off a prized breeding cow for the bull to breed with. Developing a strain of cattle that would put on the most weight in the shortest amount of time with the least feed was a business all to itself. People would pay a lot of money for a bull or a cow that had those genetic traits.

So on the surface it looked like we grew wheat and alfalfa and raised cattle. But if that's truly all we did, and wholesaled everything, we wouldn't have made much money.

[Dancealot]

Pick the leaves when ripe (I don't pick, so don't know about that)

Transport back to the farmyard.

Strip out the backbone of the leaf.

Bundle into 1 or 2 Kg rolls, and leave in the shed, or under the farmhouse for 3 days.

Put through the shredding machine.

Lay out on trays (like stretchers) in the sun, turning every half day, collect and stack in the shed overnight.

Usually takes about 2-3 days of sunshine to dry.

Put finished shredded and dried tobacco in big plastic bags and leave outside in the morning for the collection agency to buy.

Hanging and selling whole leaf is a different game, haven't a clue.

Thanks for the input Tommo. Practical information like you gave is very valuable to me. Thanks for reading my inquiry well.

I am working with big leaves and i will have to process and hang them 'old fashion style. This does not mean that after drying i could not add/apply your method..

Thanks

[james5121]

Back on topic, Dancelot, I have never grown tobacco but I've seen the operations. All I can say is that the curing sheds are huge and humidity controlled. I also know that most smoking products are a blend of tobaccos, not that you couldn't sell a single variety.

I would say that job one is to research how much space and what conditions you'll need for curing. The two biggest growing states in the US are Kentucky and N. Carolina, neither of which is as warm or humid as LOS. Although the US is the world's largest producer, I don't know of much that's grown in the deep South were it's warmer and more humid, more similar to LOS. For that reason, I don't know what it will take to cure it without rotting it.

I would try to get a look at someone else's operation. I'd speculate that they have a lot of fans to move moisture out, but I don't know.

Good luck!

Humidity control in LOS

WOW I LIKE THAT.Very nice. Seen almost the same buildings in KY.

[Lickey]

If you drive from Thai Bo to Nong Khai along the banks of the Mekong this month you will see many beds of shredded tobbaco leaves drying out in the sun, a 50gramm packet with papers will cost 10bht, so how much does the farmer make? im thinking of the cost of the packet and papers,

So i would guess 2bht for 50gram, profit for the farmer, and to enjoy this profit, you need to live like a poor thai farmer,no Net, no True tv, no big Pick-up ect,

[Dancealot]

If you drive from Thai Bo to Nong Khai along the banks of the Mekong this month you will see many beds of shredded tobbaco leaves drying out in the sun, a 50gramm packet with papers will cost 10bht, so how much does the farmer make? im thinking of the cost of the packet and papers,

So i would guess 2bht for 50gram, profit for the farmer, and to enjoy this profit, you need to live like a poor thai farmer,no Net, no True tv, no big Pick-up ect,

And that is very true and doable for a bloke like me.

[Dancealot]

Does anybody know what pesticide to use when a forum is suffering from a Diddums infection?

Do not worrie Mr. Loong. But thanks for worrying and caring about us

In this thread i consider the particular 'infection' you mentioned to be a positive addition and i am grateful to his likes

[cooked]

I'm sure you can google this somewhere but I saw the guys going through the fields gathering the lower, drier leaves of the plants every day. Taken back, fastened to a baton (13 leaves per baton I think, not more, not less), hoisted up with pullies to the top of the curing shed. This is the Burley tobacco. Recently Virginia tobacco has been cultivated, this is the one that is cured in an oven. Some nice pictures on http://www.swisstabac.ch/index.php?cat=1&page=3〈=de

I also remember when the quality was found to be unacceptable in certain years and the whole lot was burnt, nice cigar smell for miles.

If I smoked, I might grow some for private consumption. My son in law tried it and saw that the price of fertiliser and pesticides made rice cultivation more worthwhile.

[TommoPhysicist]

One thing that surprises me in LOS is the lack of "value added" thinking. Farmers seem to grow things to sell to someone else who then makes most of the profit. I do see some small farmers sell their products directly to the public if they grow smaller quantities.

The people who make the money are the tobacco companies who buy the tobacco, not the growers. So I wonder if it is legal to prepare the tobacco and sell it to those who chew or roll their own, or to a merchant who has such a shop? Probably not? Probably those people have the legal part sewn up?

If you tried it, the collection agency would likely burn your farm down.

Same game with rice mills in many areas.

You take what you are given.

[UdeBoCM]

I do not smoke, but I would like to grow a few tobacco plants to spread around ther base of trees and vegetable beds as insecticide. Any idea where/how to find seeds/seedlings? I have ask local nurseries here in Chiang Mai and nobody seems to know.

[diddums]

One thing that surprises me in LOS is the lack of "value added" thinking. Farmers seem to grow things to sell to someone else who then makes most of the profit. I do see some small farmers sell their products directly to the public if they grow smaller quantities.

The people who make the money are the tobacco companies who buy the tobacco, not the growers. So I wonder if it is legal to prepare the tobacco and sell it to those who chew or roll their own, or to a merchant who has such a shop? Probably not? Probably those people have the legal part sewn up?

On the ranch where I grew up we would never have even considered selling alfalfa hay to a rancher or a dairy. We fed it to our own cattle and sold them. We butchered a lot and sold meat by the 1/2 or whole steer to private parties for much more than the wholesalers would pay on the hoof.

We made lot of money selling prime breeding stock. When selling a prized bull the value of a pound of meat goes out the window and the value is in what the bull can produce in high quality cattle. I remember selling a bull 30 years ago for $US15,000. We could get $500 just to let someone drop off a prized breeding cow for the bull to breed with. Developing a strain of cattle that would put on the most weight in the shortest amount of time with the least feed was a business all to itself. People would pay a lot of money for a bull or a cow that had those genetic traits.

So on the surface it looked like we grew wheat and alfalfa and raised cattle. But if that's truly all we did, and wholesaled everything, we wouldn't have made much money.

Very good post.

I guess from the word Ranch this was in America ?

Still involved in cattle in any way ?

I have been tempted of late to return to the land, but to many decisions.....certainly not to grow tobacco thats for sure.

[diddums]

I do not smoke, but I would like to grow a few tobacco plants to spread around ther base of trees and vegetable beds as insecticide. Any idea where/how to find seeds/seedlings? I have ask local nurseries here in Chiang Mai and nobody seems to know.

If that is true and it works without any further process to produce a pesticide....then that would be a great use for tobacco plants and could be well accepted by those not wishing to kill others with their crop.

[UdeBoCM]

I do not smoke, but I would like to grow a few tobacco plants to spread around ther base of trees and vegetable beds as insecticide. Any idea where/how to find seeds/seedlings? I have ask local nurseries here in Chiang Mai and nobody seems to know.

If that is true and it works without any further process to produce a pesticide....then that would be a great use for tobacco plants and could be well accepted by those not wishing to kill others with their crop.

Yes that it's true. Many farmers in South India (for example, but I am sure elsewhere) spread shredded dried leaves around their fields. I have seen farmers doing that as well in Chiang Mai to protect their rice fields. I also do that and it protects my palm plantation very well, but I have to buy large sacks and that cost!

Leaves can also be left to macerate for 2-3 weeks in a tank filled with water. The water then can be sprayed around your plants...

[Dancealot]

So we established tobacco farming is not ethically sound however the needs outway the means hence tobacco is being farmed.

Right now as we speak Thursday night there was a big rainfall so everyone could take a break after weeks of hand irrigation. 25days into the growing cycle now and about 60 to go.

[chris1dna]

Isn't this a farming thread? I'm surprised the moderator hasn't stepped in to clean up all this trash talk.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Khonwan]

Isn't this a farming thread? I'm surprised the moderator hasn't stepped in to clean up all this trash talk.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I agree but this section does not have a moderator, unfortunately.

Rgds

Khonwan

[stoli]

Compared to serial killing, it's down the list. But as legal industries go, it's pretty high. -snip-

<deleted>? 443,000 people die each year in the US from smoking related disease. Another 8 million have chronic serious illness from it. You think serial killers approach that number? US Center for Disease Control.

What I want to know is, what does this have to do with someone butting in, going off topic, and ruining the OP's thread? Growing and smoking tobacco is legal and a personal choice, innit?

Back on topic, Dancelot, I have never grown tobacco but I've seen the operations. All I can say is that the curing sheds are huge and humidity controlled. I also know that most smoking products are a blend of tobaccos, not that you couldn't sell a single variety.

I would say that job one is to research how much space and what conditions you'll need for curing. The two biggest growing states in the US are Kentucky and N. Carolina, neither of which is as warm or humid as LOS. Although the US is the world's largest producer, I don't know of much that's grown in the deep South were it's warmer and more humid, more similar to LOS. For that reason, I don't know what it will take to cure it without rotting it.

I would try to get a look at someone else's operation. I'd speculate that they have a lot of fans to move moisture out, but I don't know.

Good luck!

You descirbe LOS as warm & humid. I would describe Kentucky & No. Carolina as hot & humid. Not 86 degrees like LOS, but 96 degrees. Very humid. I would think that growing tobacco here would be very similar to there.

[xen]

As an insecticide it is very effective but is not selective . You can make your own by soaking tobbacco (cigarette butts will do ) in a container of water and left for a while then spray the insecticide . I would be using protective gear tho when spraying . Just check out the LD/50 for nicotine . Also remember you can be spreading viral disease to other plants with a nicotine insecticide.

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 30–60 mg (0.5–1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.[6][71] Nicotine therefore has a high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as cocaine, which has an LD50 of 95.1 mg/kg when administered to mice. It is unlikely that a person would overdose on nicotine through smoking alone, although overdose can occur through combined use of nicotine patches or nicotine gum and cigarettes at the same time.[7] Spilling a high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can cause intoxication or even death, since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following dermal contact.[72]

http://www.sciencela...?msdsId=9926222 Material Safety Data sheet for Nicotine if anybody is interested in using it as an insecticide. Just because it is classified as an "organic pesticide" does not mean it is safe to use without taking adequate precautions .

[Canada]

< Deleted post edited out of quoted post >

Isn't this a farming thread? I'm surprised the moderator hasn't stepped in to clean up all this trash talk.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I agree but this section does not have a moderator, unfortunately.

Rgds

Khonwan

My apologies. I'll moderate myself now.

[Dancealot]

Sorry Dancealot, this was an interesting topic but sometimes a little patience is needed while bowel blockages clear and ulgy creatures crawl back under their bridges. I seem to remember that you have about 60 days of growing left before your critical harvest. That should be enough time for those with the normal attention span of a knat or a "Dag" to drop off.

Thanks guys, i will make another attempt at getting back to my OP. If all the bad leaves were taken out the thread would be more clear. But i guess we have to wait untll the smoke clears.... Nice jack nicholson pic btw

[Dancealot]

Allright, the thread is saved and dont have to worrie about it giong

, just yet.

@ IssaanAussie, thanks for the usefull comments also Mr. Neversure/Mr Loong and lets not forget Mr. cooked.