The Elephants Burial Ground

[CMHomeboy78]

Has Chiang Mai become the Florida of Asia?

Another elephants burial ground where the old tuskers come to die?

The city is now full of old geezers who have settled down here to lead lives of mindless conformity and quiet desperation just as they did in their own countries.

Most of these people have spent their lives as wage-slaves in mind-numbing jobs. It's doubtful they were even aware that Chiang Mai was on the map until they started to realize how ignorant they were of the wider world and began to travel with the aim of broadening their horizions.

But the fact is, it's too late for them. They should have started earlier and seen the world with young eyes. Then their experiences would have become part of their lives, part of their character.

But instead they drank the government Kool-Aid and became wards of a Nanny-State that promised to provide for all their wants and needs from cradle to grave - and did so with a measure of success - only failing to include hearts and minds in the bargain.

Now, like the Scarecrow and Tinwoodman they seek what they lack in the Emerald City.

They are at the gates of Chiang Mai in vast numbers. A gray horde.

What else attracts so many of them here? And this is the crux of my topic, and what I would like to have some opinions and insight on.

The following is my own take on the situation and what the possible reasons may be.

It would be tedious to list all the pros and cons of life in Thailand in general and Chiang Mai in particular.

A summing-up would probably rank Northern Thailand fairly high compared to most other places. That, combined with what they've heard about life here just a few decades ago and the remnants of faded glory that still remain from past ages constitute the positive side... Oh, and I almost forgot; it never snows. No danger of cardiac arrest while digging out the driveway Pops.

The negative forces pushing them here would be developments in their own countries.

The steady economic decline of the middle-class along with massive third-world immigration - and the plethora of problems that brings with it - surely explains why many of them leave.

The aggressive foreign policies of their governments that rain death and destruction on their self-created enemies and anyone else who gets in the way might prompt some of them to pack-up and go. But I don't think too many. Most of them don't seem to have the mentality to take a principled stand on anything.

Their standard of living is what matters most to them; and in Chiang Mai it can be considerably higher than where they came from. For now, anyway.

The overwhelming presence of these colorless people will dramatically change the way local Thais see us. The reputation of most farangs has always been somewhat raffish.

Long known as hard drinkers, stoners and cocksmen with money to burn. We lived and loved in Chiang Mai never thinking the end would come - not with a roar, but with a whimper - innundated by a human-wave of these old biddies.

As went Tombstone and Dodge City and other wild and wonderful places, so goes Chiang Mai to the tourists and sightseers like those that wander up Boothill among the graves wondering what the town below must have been like in it's glory days.

R.I.P. Chiang Mai

[circusman]

Homeboy

It appears that you are the stay at home dinosaur in your story with nothing better to do or can do.

[jonwilly]

Think I'll top myself, never knew what a boring barsteaward I was.

john

[BuddhaMind]

Some people would say you have nothing to offer. I believe you have a lot to offer. You consistently remind me what a better human I want to be. Thank you.

[market trader]

Can we assume that your rant has something to do with over indulgence.

[JingerBen]

The encouragement of retirees to settle in Chiang Mai with special visas, housing estates etc. is a textbook example of the way so many Thais look for the short-term profit while ignoring the long-term costs.

Who will care for 70 or 80 year old people when they become sick and disabled?

Most of the farang who settled here a long time ago have families to take care of them.

Thais are justly famous for taking care of their own; and that would include a farang who could speak the language, raised children among them and showed some basic respect for their culture and religion.

What do the newcomers have? A mia-chow? Some recent Thai in-laws - parasites by any other name - who will bag-out as soon as their cash-cow stops producing.

Will the government here provide long-term care for farangs who are unable to care for themselves? I doubt it.

The Golden Years of retirement that never materialized in their own countries are even less likely to become a reality here.

Many of these people are old enough to remember the early years of the Castro regime in Cuba when posters went up in front of the old state-run airline reading: Yankee Go Home - via Cubana Airlines.

Couldn't happen here, could it?

No way Jose, we'd carpet-bomb them suckers back to the Stone Age.

Edited January 28, 2013 by JingerBen

[realthaideal]

And....?

Hope the rant was cathartic.

CM is what it is. And the varied CM expat population is what it is.

[Oscar2]

will AnaBanana and the other members of the gang of alter egos be chiming in too?

[CMHomeboy78]

This topic was guaranteed to make the greenhorns throw a hissy-fit about my nostalgia for the good ol', bad ol' days.

It's a knee-jerk reaction to be expected from people who - almost without exception - lack any first-hand knowlege of what life in Chiang Mai was like thirty or more years ago, and seem to resent the existence of those who do.

Petty nastiness was to be forseen. I won't be drawn into a cat-fight, and I can easily sidestep the ejaculations of venom.

So instead of the peevish one-liners, maybe you can come up with an intelligent response to some of the points I've made.

I would welcome that and will answer your challenge if I'm able.

[philw]

This topic was guaranteed to make the greenhorns throw a hissy-fit about my nostalgia for the good ol', bad ol' days.

It's a knee-jerk reaction to be expected from people who - almost without exception - lack any first-hand knowlege of what life in Chiang Mai was like thirty or more years ago, and seem to resent the existence of those who do.

Petty nastiness was to be forseen. I won't be drawn into a cat-fight, and I can easily sidestep the ejaculations of venom.

So instead of the peevish one-liners, maybe you can come up with an intelligent response to some of the points I've made.

I would welcome that and will answer your challenge if I'm able.

Having just re-read your OP, I don't think you have made any points.

Reads like a few stupid, insulting or generalised statements more illuminative of your own bias and prejuidice than anything else.

What is the point you try to make ???

Too many old people here ??

So what, big deal.

They get in the way ???

Don't think so.

The Thai's think less of foreigners because they are here ??

Doubt it.

What other point do you make ???

Snow ?

You are right about that, it doesn't snow in Chiangmai.

Anything else ???

Yeah, sorry, I forgot.

I do have experience of what Chiangmai was like 30yrs ago and so what ?

Edited January 28, 2013 by philw

[hellodolly]

This topic was guaranteed to make the greenhorns throw a hissy-fit about my nostalgia for the good ol', bad ol' days.

It's a knee-jerk reaction to be expected from people who - almost without exception - lack any first-hand knowlege of what life in Chiang Mai was like thirty or more years ago, and seem to resent the existence of those who do.

Petty nastiness was to be forseen. I won't be drawn into a cat-fight, and I can easily sidestep the ejaculations of venom.

So instead of the peevish one-liners, maybe you can come up with an intelligent response to some of the points I've made.

I would welcome that and will answer your challenge if I'm able.

Having just re-read your OP, I don't think you have made any points.

Reads like a few stupid, insulting or generalised statements more illuminative of your own bias and prejuidice than anything else.

What is the point you try to make ???

Too many old people here ??

So what, big deal.

They get in the way ???

Don't think so.

The Thai's think less of foreigners because they are here ??

Doubt it.

What other point do you make ???

Snow ?

You are right about that, it doesn't snow in Chiangmai.

Anything else ???

Yeah, sorry, I forgot.

I do have experience of what Chiangmai was like 30yrs ago and so what ?

Funny you should mention that Phil. I was talking to a friend of mine who was here 50 years ago when there was no paved streets. He has the same attitude as you and I (even though I have only been here 7 years) so what .

[hellodolly]

CMHomeboy78

You should watch old movies. You say and I cut and paste.

"They should have started earlier and seen the world with young eyes. Then their experiences would have become part of their lives, part of their character."

There is a oldie but as goodie Jimmy Steward film It's a wonderful life.

In it there is a line that describes you to a tee.

youth is wasted on the young.

[uptheos]

78...34, English Teacher, no work, free wifi, no money for honey, has to go home, jealous, needs to rant...feels better.

[hellodolly]

Well there are so many expats here now the kid could be rite about some of them. I have been here for 7 years and can only speak for myself.

I refuse to buy a house for to me that would be like saying life is over I am ready to die. I leave my options open. I can afford to buy a house but as you can see ain't going to happen. I may not get out as much as I used to but I do get out more than when I was in Canada. I live in lodgings that are crowded and plain. They are crowded because I bought so much stuff and all of it I would have no problem walking away from it with out looking back. I stay here because I like the view and most of all I love the location it suits me to a tee.

In closing I would like to ask you a question. Is your OP what you foresee for your future?

If I remember correctly ( happens every so often at my age not as often as it used to) you were leaving.

[hellodolly]

78...34, English Teacher, no work, free wifi, no money for honey, has to go home, jealous, needs to rant...feels better.

Beg to differ he has done it before it dosen't help him a bit.

He is not old enough to know to get help or walk away.

[mamborobert]

A product of the system he ridicules. He can copy and paste the witticisms of others but like those he seeks to condemns lacks any original thought.

There is in the op's post the wit of others, The original was a wit, the Op that can only copy and paste in an effort to alleviate their own boredom are only half way there...half wits

[uptheos]

78...34, English Teacher, no work, free wifi, no money for honey, has to go home, jealous, needs to rant...feels better.

Beg to differ he has done it before it dosen't help him a bit.

He is not old enough to know to get help or walk away.

Short term help, prevents crisis.....no insight to seek long term help.

[Puwa]

Homeslice,

First, my bona fides: I don't fall into the demographic that you want to describe: I wandered over here 20 years ago, a young man. I'm neither grey in the temples nor green in the horns.

I don't feel obligated to revere those who came before me or compelled to resent those who follow; I really don't care. Each of us is on his own path. Maybe I'll go another 20 or 40 years, maybe I won't.

Anyway, my particulars are irrelevant. You seem to hate where you came from, and hate where you are now. As much as you want to blame others--the nanny state, the worker drones, the Kool Aid, retirees, late travelers-- let me point out that the one constant in your sad complaint is you. You. Unhappy there, unhappy here. Longing for an imagined, irrecoverable past, despising the present, fearing an uncertain future.

But do not despair, there is hope. Thailand can show you to accept yourself and others, help you recognize the cause and effect of karma, and teach you to understand that everything changes. It's Dharma 101. Even after 30 years, it's not too late to learn.

Anijang, anijang, anijang, my friend.

[Ricardo]

I myself like to sit with a beer, and watch the sun go down behind Doi Suthep, does that make me an 'old gazer', rather than old-geezer ?

[elektrified]

Longing for an imagined, irrecoverable past, despising the present, fearing an uncertain future...

Couldn't have said it better. Excellent post.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Ah heck, I'll bite. Everyone else does. Here it goes:

I think it matters far more where you are now, and what you do with your life now, compared to where you were 30 years ago. Be it wage slave or intrepid explorer of foreign lands.

I can only wish, quite sincerely, that the here and now involves something better than trolling an Internet forum filled with people you don't like. I truly would not wish that upon anyone.

Edited January 28, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[circusman]

Zoologically speaking there is no elephant graveyard. Their bones turn white on the very spot they drop dead.

[khwaibah]

Ah heck, I'll bite. Everyone else does. Here it goes:

I think it matters far more where you are now, and what you do with your life now, compared to where you were 30 years ago. Be it wage slave or intrepid explorer of foreign lands.

I can only wish, quite sincerely, that the here and now involves something better than trolling an Internet forum filled with people you don't like. I truly would not wish that upon anyone.

[CMHomeboy78]

The encouragement of retirees to settle in Chiang Mai with special visas, housing estates etc. is a textbook example of the way so many Thais look for the short-term profit while ignoring the long-term costs.

Who will care for 70 or 80 year old people when they become sick and disabled?

Most of the farang who settled here a long time ago have families to take care of them.

Thais are justly famous for taking care of their own; and that would include a farang who could speak the language, raised children among them and showed some basic respect for their culture and religion.

What do the newcomers have? A mia-chow? Some recent Thai in-laws - parasites by any other name - who will bag-out as soon as their cash-cow stops producing.

Will the government here provide long-term care for farangs who are unable to care for themselves? I doubt it.

The Golden Years of retirement that never materialized in their own countries are even less likely to become a reality here.

Many of these people are old enough to remember the early years of the Castro regime in Cuba when posters went up in front of the old state-run airline reading: Yankee Go Home - via Cubana Airlines.

Couldn't happen here, could it?

No way Jose, we'd carpet-bomb them suckers back to the Stone Age.

The Thai propensity to take the short-term profits while ignoring the long-term costs - as you put it - is a valid point that I didn't even think to bring up.

In this case retirees becoming too sick or feeble to to care for themselves.

But let me take it a bit further if I may.

That concept could be applied to many things that come under the rubric of "progress" and "development" where greed is so often combined with stupidity to create man-made disasters.

Certainly the large and ever-increasing number of clueless farangs here is a disaster in the making.

But Chiang Mai has survived a lot in the past 700 years.

Burmese war-elephants leading the hordes of Ava and Pegu; the armies of 16th Century Ayudhya with their Portugese gunners who could breach the Kamphang Muang in a matter of hours; Bangkok Thais, first as invaders, then as uninvited guests who would be gone.

Now it's farangs. The problem in it's modern phase in Thailand as a whole started in the '60s and '70s with the GIs.

Physically they were, for the most part, excellent specimens of young manhood. Even the middle-aged officers were in good shape. Nothing wrong with them really except that, as the British said during WWII, they were "overfed, overpaid and over here".

Their marching-orders out of Thailand were written in the blood of Thammasat students.

Then came the international tourists - in their millions.

The sight of them scantily-clad on Thai beaches was enough to make you barf-up your som-tam.

And their quality slowly but steadily deteriorated over the years until it started to include the Russian Mafia, East European hookers, African scammers, low-rent Americans and the dregs of Europe.

Now another ingredient has been added to this stinking gumbo: old people on the cusp of infirmity.

This latest development may very well be the coup de grace for all of us...

Nophaburi Srinakhonping Chiangmai included.

[rene123]

The world was ever thus, homeboy. It all depends on what eyes are looking at it. I imagine that 40 years ago there weren't many farangs living in Chiang Mai, and It was probably like every other small city in Thailand. But, Chiang Mai has grown and changed. It has changed a lot since I first visited Thailand in 1998. And, I like to think that it has changed for the better. There is more for farangs to do and there are more people who can speak reasonable English. That goes for the foreigners as well as the locals. I remember my parents telling me stories of the wild west in Canada and how you could visit a dude ranch and ride a horse for days in any direction without seeing a fence. Now, almost all the land is fenced and tied up in land holdings. That doesn't ruin it for newcomers though. They can still get on a horse and have a pleasant ride in open range, but one that now has borders (fences). It is only people who want to get lost in the past that complain. Most are recluses who don't like to associate with people and don't have time for any new ideas. In the past 3 months I've talked to numerous tourists who were visiting Thailand for the first time. To a person, they were all thrilled to be here, and were planning to come back to spend more time. Yes, there are some old farts that have come to Thailand to scrape out a meager living for their final few years. Yes, I guess you could say they are like the old elephants I see staked to a chain in the ground, and will end their sad days stepping back and forth with no hope for the future. Unlike the poor elephants, at least the humans have the choice to be happy or sad. It all depends on what goes on between their ears.

[hellodolly]

It would seem that are wayward son is frustrated to the nines. He apparently hasn't got what it takes to make it any where so he reaches out and imposes any thing he deems wrong on every body. It is only when you know what you want that you have a chance of attaining it. Keep up your poor me attitude and nothing will change for you.

As for getting old many of us have medical and many of us have some one that will take care of us as we age. We did not attain these things by feeling sorry for our selves. It took action on are part for the most part. I say for the most part because I know there are trust fund babies here. Some of them have never had to take responsibility for any thing. But the majority of us have plans. Which apparently you don't.

[ollylama]

Eh? What's that? Speak up, sonny boy. I can't hear you. Doggone cheap Thai hearing aids. Hello? Is anybody there?

[DiamondKing]

HAHA what a Saddo LOL

Well at least I can say I am not the one described been travelling for the past 29 years first 4 Europe then 16 years travelling and living in America, Central America, and South America, Caribbean etc and now I am doing Asia been here 7 years just bought a house dont feel like I'm dead and my life is over and my travelling is far from done just Thailand is my home base and there is nothing wrong with it besides the whacky side of Thailand, but it could be worse I could be stuck in the Uk in the freezing cold and snow.

Ya gotta question the OP for such a post though, and I think he has more problems than he is letting on to go to all that efFort to post such CRAP

DK

Edited January 28, 2013 by DiamondKing

[jonwilly]

My elderly fried, resident since 1960 occasionally tells the Tale of when renting a house, located where Plaza Hotel is now.

Literally had an Elephant drop dead in his garden. Full grow beast so massive problem in disposing of the carcass.

Eventually due to smell he had to dig/have dug a pit and the monster was pushed in and covered up.

Regarded as 'Lucky' by locals.

john

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

After reading the OP's rant I must say I feel much better about my mindset after contemplating the perspective of a train wreck.

Maybe it was cathartic cleansing.

Everybody has bad or negative thoughts... Learning meditation, yoga etc allows the negativity to come out without action as the practitioner allows the unwanted baggage to float away...