American Accused Of Unlawful Encounter With 13 Year Old Girl On Pattaya Beach

[Tatsujin]

This is pure entrapment!

All of us who've lived in LOS and know what goes on here can see what is really going on.

The American guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time and unfortunately has fallen prey to the Thais. Another one bites the dust!

Entrapment or not he is a middle aged man who was caught naked in bed with a 13 year old child. That's the bottom line. Very sad to see so many on here trying to defend and excuse this. " There but for the grace of God go I" etc etc. Speaks volumes about them. It would appear that for many on here the only problem they have with sex with a child would be getting caught.

One of the big problems I have with many TV posters is that they think life is purely black and white and their holier than thou attitudes are beyond a joke.

If you can honestly tell me that as a foreigner here you have never, ever had sex with a prostitute then, 1. I would be very surprised, and 2. I would think you are lying. Yes, there are some very few that haven't <waits to hear the cries of innocence>, but I would hazard a guess and say the vast majority of foreigners here have partaken at one point or another.

By all accounts, this girl is a prostitute. She's done it before, she's been paid for it, her family's happy and she gets her new iPhone. Is she too young? Yes, I think so, but on a dark night, drunk, she tells you she is 19, she tells you the price, I can see how this happened. I don't believe the guy was out looking for a 13 year old girl to have fun with . . . he was out looking for a "girl" to have fun with.

Aside from all that, there always seems to be a lot of news about prostitution being the fault of the foreigners. Well, that's complete &lt;deleted&gt;. If you take a look around any city in Thailand, you'll find the "Thai-only" clubs outnumber the more in your face and well known "foreigner" clubs by about 100 to 1. And it's in these "Thai-only" clubs that they LOOK for and traffic the very young girls. Look back at history in asia. Nothings changed.

[Jayman]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

Both Thai and Romanised for everything.

Romanised? I don't think so. Perhaps you mean Arabic numerals.

[rinteln]

This is pure entrapment!

All of us who've lived in LOS and know what goes on here can see what is really going on.

The American guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time and unfortunately has fallen prey to the Thais. Another one bites the dust!

Entrapment or not he is a middle aged man who was caught naked in bed with a 13 year old child. That's the bottom line. Very sad to see so many on here trying to defend and excuse this. " There but for the grace of God go I" etc etc. Speaks volumes about them. It would appear that for many on here the only problem they have with sex with a child would be getting caught.

One of the big problems I have with many TV posters is that they think life is purely black and white and their holier than thou attitudes are beyond a joke.

If you can honestly tell me that as a foreigner here you have never, ever had sex with a prostitute then, 1. I would be very surprised, and 2. I would think you are lying. Yes, there are some very few that haven't <waits to hear the cries of innocence>, but I would hazard a guess and say the vast majority of foreigners here have partaken at one point or another.

By all accounts, this girl is a prostitute. She's done it before, she's been paid for it, her family's happy and she gets her new iPhone. Is she too young? Yes, I think so, but on a dark night, drunk, she tells you she is 19, she tells you the price, I can see how this happened. I don't believe the guy was out looking for a 13 year old girl to have fun with . . . he was out looking for a "girl" to have fun with.

Aside from all that, there always seems to be a lot of news about prostitution being the fault of the foreigners. Well, that's complete &lt;deleted&gt;. If you take a look around any city in Thailand, you'll find the "Thai-only" clubs outnumber the more in your face and well known "foreigner" clubs by about 100 to 1. And it's in these "Thai-only" clubs that they LOOK for and traffic the very young girls. Look back at history in asia. Nothings changed.

Best comment I have seen on this subject so far.

[rinteln]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

Both Thai and Romanised for everything.

Romanised? I don't think so. Perhaps you mean Arabic numerals.

Blimey you are bored....................whatever !!

Edited January 31, 2013 by rinteln

[Tatsujin]

If you guys want to get upset about something, try this one:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/having-sex-with-a-13-year-old-can-never-1492241

Good old Blighty . . . . I'm proud to call it home (not).

[Tatsujin]

This is pure entrapment!

All of us who've lived in LOS and know what goes on here can see what is really going on.

The American guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time and unfortunately has fallen prey to the Thais. Another one bites the dust!

Entrapment or not he is a middle aged man who was caught naked in bed with a 13 year old child. That's the bottom line. Very sad to see so many on here trying to defend and excuse this. " There but for the grace of God go I" etc etc. Speaks volumes about them. It would appear that for many on here the only problem they have with sex with a child would be getting caught.

One of the big problems I have with many TV posters is that they think life is purely black and white and their holier than thou attitudes are beyond a joke.

If you can honestly tell me that as a foreigner here you have never, ever had sex with a prostitute then, 1. I would be very surprised, and 2. I would think you are lying. Yes, there are some very few that haven't <waits to hear the cries of innocence>, but I would hazard a guess and say the vast majority of foreigners here have partaken at one point or another.

By all accounts, this girl is a prostitute. She's done it before, she's been paid for it, her family's happy and she gets her new iPhone. Is she too young? Yes, I think so, but on a dark night, drunk, she tells you she is 19, she tells you the price, I can see how this happened. I don't believe the guy was out looking for a 13 year old girl to have fun with . . . he was out looking for a "girl" to have fun with.

Aside from all that, there always seems to be a lot of news about prostitution being the fault of the foreigners. Well, that's complete &lt;deleted&gt;. If you take a look around any city in Thailand, you'll find the "Thai-only" clubs outnumber the more in your face and well known "foreigner" clubs by about 100 to 1. And it's in these "Thai-only" clubs that they LOOK for and traffic the very young girls. Look back at history in asia. Nothings changed.

Best comment I have seen on this subject so far.

Apologies, I'll go back to being my normal sarcastic self and not post sensible comments any more! I've got a reputation to keep up!

[BlackPuddingBertha]

..... let me just say I wouldn't consider having sex with anyone under 30YO!

A gerontophile! Burn him!

[Tatsujin]

..... let me just say I wouldn't consider having sex with anyone under 30YO!

A gerontophile! Burn him!

... or perhaps it's simply the fact that no one under 30 will have sex with him ...

[Thorgal]

..... let me just say I wouldn't consider having sex with anyone under 30YO!

A gerontophile! Burn him!

... or perhaps it's simply the fact that no one under 30 will have sex with him ...

Did he precise over-aged virgin midgets ?

[DiNiro]

The police are clearly allowing massive prostitution on the beach footpath. Day and night.

One evening last year, I drove by around 9PM and there probably were 400 - 500 girls, the length of the beach persuading tourists to go short time.

If I was a crooked cop running jet ski scams all day, it would only seem natural to entrap some foreigners in the evening with some jailbait.

Who knows how many times this may have happened and how much money they collected?

It could be bigger then the jet ski fraud income.

They could be picking off foreigners like this every night and who would know it?

The foreigner would not go to the press. The perfect scam.

I'm thinking this bust was for show.

After all, it's crime crackdown publicity month here in Pattaya, brought to you by those wonderful Boys in Brown.

Edited January 31, 2013 by DiNiro

[TommyDee]

This guy ISNT A TOURIST he lives and works in Thailand. He has a Thai stepdaughter. He fully knows the deal here regarding age, looks etc.

In most countries, regardless of money being paid, it would be statutory rape charges for the bloke.

Ima gunna take a wild stab in the dark here but do you reckon the reason why he asked her age is because yes indeed he does know the deal here and was ensuring she was legal tender.

actually that is a valid question.

and whilst None of us know the answer, what we DO know is that the only reason some think the question was even asked is because the "man", once caught naked in bed with the child.. said so in his statement. He probably also said he was only on beach road because of the sunrise due in a few hours and that he came to Pattaya because he thought it was place to write down train numbers.. the last two are of course fiction.. but it isnt a FACT that he asked her her age.. it is what he told the police.

but it is a valid question, one that can never be answered with any concrete knowledge tho

[TommyDee]

she was being monitored by her pimp, pretty sure I saw this girl yesterday on the beach, same hat and age anyway, obviously on yaba, wonder how much the american ended up paying

Have there been any pictures of this girl released so far other then from her back side ?

Or did you recognise her from her hat only

i doubt if anyone will post those photographs. I believe it is illegal as she is underage.

[Jayman]

she was being monitored by her pimp, pretty sure I saw this girl yesterday on the beach, same hat and age anyway, obviously on yaba, wonder how much the american ended up paying

Have there been any pictures of this girl released so far other then from her back side ?

Or did you recognise her from her hat only

i doubt if anyone will post those photographs. I believe it is illegal as she is underage.

show her pictures = not allowed

get undressed with an adult in a private hotel room= monitored and allowed

what a system.

[Basil B]

My first reaction to this was let the guy rot hell...

But after some time I now think the police were totally out of order, (I still think he should rot in hell) but they were observing they should have stopped them before the crime was committed.

I guess the girl in question was no virgin but even still letting her go into a room with him with the intent to catch them at it, IMHO it is not in the child's best interest even if she had done it many times before.

[jbrain]

she was being monitored by her pimp, pretty sure I saw this girl yesterday on the beach, same hat and age anyway, obviously on yaba, wonder how much the american ended up paying

Have there been any pictures of this girl released so far other then from her back side ?

Or did you recognise her from her hat only

i doubt if anyone will post those photographs. I believe it is illegal as she is underage.

That was exactly my point. So Wans' post hasn't gained him a lot of credibility on this forum I would say

[Thailand1977]

If you guys want to get upset about something, try this one:

http://www.dailyreco...n-never-1492241

Good old Blighty . . . . I'm proud to call it home (not).

The biggest scandal that the establishment are trying to pass the buck is the Muslim gang rapes of kids throughout Britain which most notably Nick Griffin highlighted 10 years ago yet the establishment mocked and ignored him.

It seems the police, social services, local councils, children's homes, the judicial system and every part of the state sector that is meant to protect kids done the very opposite for fear of upsetting Muslim areas.

And not one has lost their job let alone been given a prison sentence, for me they're as bad if not worse then the sick scum who committed these evil crimes.

[Tatsujin]

If you guys want to get upset about something, try this one:

http://www.dailyreco...n-never-1492241

Good old Blighty . . . . I'm proud to call it home (not).

The biggest scandal that the establishment are trying to pass the buck is the Muslim gang rapes of kids throughout Britain which most notably Nick Griffin highlighted 10 years ago yet the establishment mocked and ignored him.

It seems the police, social services, local councils, children's homes, the judicial system and every part of the state sector that is meant to protect kids done the very opposite for fear of upsetting Muslim areas.

And not one has lost their job let alone been given a prison sentence, for me they're as bad if not worse then the sick scum who committed these evil crimes.

Couldn't agree more. England is not what it was. And I learned also you are NOT innocent until proven guilty any longer.

[Psych01]

@Tatsujin, "And I learned also you are NOT innocent until proven guilty any longer." Where did you get that info? I would like to know more, I am not questioning your info, I would just like to know as UK law has always been that way. No matter what the public think.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Psych01

[Tatsujin]

@Tatsujin, "And I learned also you are NOT innocent until proven guilty any longer." Where did you get that info? I would like to know more, I am not questioning your info, I would just like to know as UK law has always been that way. No matter what the public think.

Yes, the theory is that you are innocent and they have to prove you guilty. The reality is you are assumed to be guilty and you have to fight to prove your innocence.

I say this based on actual personal experiences, both my own and others.

[Psych01]

@Tatsujin, "And I learned also you are NOT innocent until proven guilty any longer." Where did you get that info? I would like to know more, I am not questioning your info, I would just like to know as UK law has always been that way. No matter what the public think.

Yes, the theory is that you are innocent and they have to prove you guilty. The reality is you are assumed to be guilty and you have to fight to prove your innocence.

I say this based on actual personal experiences, both my own and others.

OK, thanks.

So, the law has not changed and it is still "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY", just small minded people enforcing there version of the law. As a few have posted on here. Facts, law and perception of the law! Sorry to hear of your circumstance.

[lemoncake]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

Both Thai and Romanised for everything.

incorrect, not older id cards, only the new ones.

the old ones have ONLY thai calendar years

Since we know you like to argue about senseless things,

The " old " ID cards were issued to people who are now older than 18 years old, so no need to check if they are underage anymore.

Great post

Since i know you like to make posts without thinking first, the matter in question was not about young people with id cards, but about ID cards and format of numbers

Secondly being in hotel business clearly i know less than yourself on this subject, but the new cards were only introduced in 2007

[Tatsujin]

@Tatsujin, "And I learned also you are NOT innocent until proven guilty any longer." Where did you get that info? I would like to know more, I am not questioning your info, I would just like to know as UK law has always been that way. No matter what the public think.

Yes, the theory is that you are innocent and they have to prove you guilty. The reality is you are assumed to be guilty and you have to fight to prove your innocence.

I say this based on actual personal experiences, both my own and others.

OK, thanks.

So, the law has not changed and it is still "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY", just small minded people enforcing there version of the law. As a few have posted on here. Facts, law and perception of the law! Sorry to hear of your circumstance.

The law hasn't changed, just people, and the way it's enforced.

And my circumstances are just fine. Thanks anyway

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

Both Thai and Romanised for everything.

Indeed, my wife's Thai ID card is the chip-embossed credit card type, and it lists her date of birth (month, day, year) in both Thai characters and English language. In Thai language, the year is listed according to the Thai calendar. In the English portion, the year is listed according to the western calendar.

It doesn't list the person's age, of course, because that changes every year. So it just takes a bit of subtraction (2013 minus XXXX) to get the correct age. Assuming, of course, that someone actually looks at the ID as opposed to relying on a verbal assurance.

Edited January 31, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, thoughout this thread, I haven't seen any explanation or justification for the following part of the OP, which kind of puts the police's role in this matter in question.

Officers from the Police Region 2 Child and Women Protection Unit were monitoring the 13 year old girl around 4am on Tuesday Morning...

If they thought they had an underage girl streetwalking at 4 am in the morning, what exactly would there be to monitor? She was in violation of curfew, assuming she was a juvenile. And if the police weren't sure, all they had to do was approach her and check her ID...

Unless, of course, the police in this case were doing a different kind of monitoring...not aimed at protecting the girl, but rather, aimed at entrapping an unsuspecting farang who thought he was engaging a 19-year-old. So they could make a big publicity case out of a small thing (in the context of Pattaya), all the while ignoring and condoning the vastly larger array of truly illegal and harmful things afoot there.

Edited January 31, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Yahooka]

Im not really surprised that the "hang em high" and "holier than thou" brigade are at it in this tragic case.But what makes me angry is the attacks from a FEW members on people who try to see this case from both sides.The guy is not proved guilty yet,but to imply that people here are defending underage sex because they can see irregularities in this story is uncalled for !!!! Being passionate on a subject and dashing out penalties on the same is a bad,bad combination!!

Thailand.......the Hub of the "hang em high" and "holier than thou" brigade !!!!!!!

[copa8]

Officers from the Police Region 2 Child and Women Protection Unit were monitoring the 13 year old girl around 4am on Tuesday Morning and were about to detain her and take her into care when they saw an approach by the American,

Why do I smell a set up ?

then go see a doctor, as your sense of smell ain't what it used to be.

setup or not, the perv shouldn't have even touched her with a ten foot pole. the article didn't say he was coerced/forced into going to the hotel room with her and strip naked, did it?

[copa8]

A Paedophile is a paedophile is a paedophile!

People trying to make excuses for this behaviour because she probably approached him, and she lied about her age and he may not have known her true age are pathetic.

If you are not a paedophile you do not proposition a girl without ensuring she is of legal age especially when the majority of asian girls look younger than what they are.

If you are not sure of her age, but you are certain you are not a paedophile, then you walk away.

true. so many on the board are trying to make stupid-ass excuses. you forgot the one about he's probably drunk.

makes you wonder why these guys have so much sympathy for the perp.

[jpinx]

A Paedophile is a paedophile is a paedophile!

People trying to make excuses for this behaviour because she probably approached him, and she lied about her age and he may not have known her true age are pathetic.

If you are not a paedophile you do not proposition a girl without ensuring she is of legal age especially when the majority of asian girls look younger than what they are.

If you are not sure of her age, but you are certain you are not a paedophile, then you walk away.

true. so many on the board are trying to make stupid-ass excuses. you forgot the one about he's probably drunk.

makes you wonder why these guys have so much sympathy for the perp.

I hope the next time you are approached by a nice looking girl on Beach Road you will employ your incredible knowledge of human nature and of how life is in Pattaya to make sure you do not end up in the same situation. I hear the same girl is still plying her trade on Beach Road, so you have a good chance to prove that you really *are* Holier than anyone else ....

[stiggy]

It's a sad day when a group of Expats find it reasonable to discuss and defend how anyone could of got caught out etc etc..Safety in numbers and group mentality at its finest.

If you have any reason to check a persons ID for legal age to start with, something is wrong, that clearly means the person is into young girls or guys to start with.Plenty of women of legal age available in Pattaya if paying for sex is your thing.

As or the comments everyone has been there or slept with hookers etc etc maybe in your own circles but not in the normal world.Its no different then to agree that everyone does drugs from a drug addicts perspective.Fact is they don't.

Im sure many will jump on this post about me being holier than thou etc etc, far from it. After 15 years in Thailand ,just find the whole Thai expat or sex tourist thing well sad really. I mean it is not exactly hard to pull here you can get a date almost anywhere.

As for they guy who's been caught I also wonder why the police didn't step in earlier, but fact is they didn't and he was in bed with a minor end of story.

[jpinx]

It's a sad day when a group of Expats find it reasonable to discuss and defend how anyone could of got caught out etc etc..Safety in numbers and group mentality at its finest.

If you have any reason to check a persons ID for legal age to start with, something is wrong, that clearly means the person is into young girls or guys to start with.Plenty of women of legal age available in Pattaya if paying for sex is your thing.

As or the comments everyone has been there or slept with hookers etc etc maybe in your own circles but not in the normal world.Its no different then to agree that everyone does drugs from a drug addicts perspective.Fact is they don't.

Im sure many will jump on this post about me being holier than thou etc etc, far from it. After 15 years in Thailand ,just find the whole Thai expat or sex tourist thing well sad really. I mean it is not exactly hard to pull here you can get a date almost anywhere.

As for they guy who's been caught I also wonder why the police didn't step in earlier, but fact is they didn't and he was in bed with a minor end of story.

Maybe you need to read the original report and look at the photos. The guy did ask the girl her age - she lied and got away with it because she appeared to him (and from the back in the photos) to be old enough to be a hooker on Beach Road at 4am.

The Police state that they KNEW she was 13 before the guy approached her, but the police did nothing to protect her - just wait to catch the farang and make a big story.

The farang must have been in a bad way -- recently abandoned by his thai wife. This most certainly does not make child sex acceptable, but it does point to a most unfortunate case of a very vulnerable guy being trapped in every sense of the word.

I hope this goes to court...............