American Accused Of Unlawful Encounter With 13 Year Old Girl On Pattaya Beach

[jbrain]

[

Since we know you like to argue about senseless things,

The " old " ID cards were issued to people who are now older than 18 years old, so no need to check if they are underage anymore.

Great post

Since i know you like to make posts without thinking first, the matter in question was not about young people with id cards, but about ID cards and format of numbers

Secondly being in hotel business clearly i know less than yourself on this subject, but the new cards were only introduced in 2007

Who says ?

Since the new cards were introduced in 2007 and at that time the legal minimum age to apply was 15 years, make that every one holding the old type of ID card at least 21 years of age today.

who says what?

the question raised was AGAIN, what format is used, question did not specify young or old.

2007 date of new cards was just an educational information for you since yous stated old cards were really old, which again was incorrect

See you like starting senseless arguments.

The question was raised because, and 2 other posters have pointed that out to you already, in the event that someone has to check if a girl is underage if he will be able to read the date.

The answer is that there are currently no underage girls in Thailand which hold an id card where the date of birth isn't written in western format.

I don't think the member who posted the question had the intention to check 30 years old lady's id cards.

I understand now why you get charged 120 Baht toll for going to the airport, while everybody else only pays 60 Baht.

[lemoncake]

who says what?

the question raised was AGAIN, what format is used, question did not specify young or old.

2007 date of new cards was just an educational information for you since yous stated old cards were really old, which again was incorrect

See you like starting senseless arguments.

The question was raised because, and 2 other posters have pointed that out to you already, in the event that someone has to check if a girl is underage if he will be able to read the date.

The answer is that there are currently no underage girls in Thailand which hold an id card where the date of birth isn't written in western format.

I don't think the member who posted the question had the intention to check 30 years old lady's id cards.

I understand now why you get charged 120 Baht toll for going to the airport, while everybody else only pays 60 Baht.

ohhh you mean you felt like trolling and not man enough to admit when you wrong? got ya

Let me re-post for you what the question was

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

[jbrain]

who says what?

the question raised was AGAIN, what format is used, question did not specify young or old.

2007 date of new cards was just an educational information for you since yous stated old cards were really old, which again was incorrect

See you like starting senseless arguments.

The question was raised because, and 2 other posters have pointed that out to you already, in the event that someone has to check if a girl is underage if he will be able to read the date.

The answer is that there are currently no underage girls in Thailand which hold an id card where the date of birth isn't written in western format.

I don't think the member who posted the question had the intention to check 30 years old lady's id cards.

I understand now why you get charged 120 Baht toll for going to the airport, while everybody else only pays 60 Baht.

ohhh you mean you felt like trolling and not man enough to admit when you wrong? got ya

Let me re-post for you what the question was

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

You can only dream you got me.

So you think the member who posted the question, in a thread concerning a foreigner trapped into an underage encounter, wanted to check if the lady's he meet are 30 years of age rather than 25 ?

[Banzai99]

This Guy just finds himself on the wrong side of the rails in Thailand.

Set up, well , they sure could have stopped both parties before they ever got to the short time room, one has to wonder why they didn't, looks like they wanted to arrest him instead of protect her.

Maybe his arrest will serve as a warning to men that travel to Thailand to have sex with children, If so, then it's not all bad.

Every cloud has a silver lining.

That's all I can say about that, he was. Just unlucky, there but for the grace of God go I.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Maybe his arrest will serve as a warning to men that travel to Thailand to have sex with children, If so, then it's not all bad.

Every cloud has a silver lining.

That's all I can say about that, he was. Just unlucky, there but for the grace of God go I.

So I guess we can all agree that someday, if you're wrongly arrested in Thailand on some trumped up charge, that at least it's not all bad, because your arrest will serve as a warning to others.... Hope you're game for that kind of future and will feel good knowing your incarceration has provided a "silver lining" for Thai society.

Only problem is, in this case, there little to no known evidence that the man involved here was intent on engaging in a liaison with an underage girl, and by virtue of him asking about her age and being told 19, presumably he was expecting a fully legal (at least from an age standpoint) liaison with a young adult.

What kind of warning is that kind of case supposed to be sending again???

[Thaddeus]

Set up, well , they sure could have stopped both parties before they ever got to the short time room, one has to wonder why they didn't, looks like they wanted to arrest him instead of protect her.

Really, you think?

Let's weigh up the balance of probabilities.

Farang with maybe some or maybe no beer inside him fancies a quick fumble, finds an available option and just to be on the safe side asks the available option how old she is, she says that she is old enough.

Versus.

The last bastions of morality, the boys in tight brown trousers who work tirelessly for the good of the common Thai and Thailands image, they save kittens stuck in trees and help old ladies with their shopping, and they only stop traffic offenders and fine them as a reminder to be more careful in future.

It's a set up ..... end of.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Thaddeus

[Banzai99]

If only he never actually left his room and spent all his time on anonymous Thai related websites he wouldn't be in this situation now.

[Banzai99]

So many jumping to his defence, I'm impressed.

Tell me, if he was an Indian guy, would you all be jumping to his defence in the same manner ?

Edited February 1, 2013 by Banzai99

[DiNiro]

So many jumping to his defence, I'm impressed.

Tell me, if he was an Indian guy, would you all be jumping to his defence in the same manner ?

You trust the word of a Thai policeman?

I could take you to a gay massage place that serves up young Lao boys to Thai Police.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So many jumping to his defence, I'm impressed.

Tell me, if he was an Indian guy, would you all be jumping to his defence in the same manner ?

It's the facts/circumstances of the case that have many here questioning the way this was handled by the police -- not the nationality of the farang involved.

[Thorgal]

So many jumping to his defence, I'm impressed.

Tell me, if he was an Indian guy, would you all be jumping to his defence in the same manner ?

Yes, why not.

Neal Rosenthal is a Jewish American and I could have Arabian roots, so what ?

[spidermike007]

After the parents charged officially Mr. Rosenthal, the police report will mention the amount of their "moral" claim for the scandal...

If he pays - due to the media, a huge sum - the charges in Thailand will be dropped.

Idem dito for the US. He will still remain suspect...in the US.

By the way, he's from Chicago...

She accepted money = prostitution (no rape)

Now, if you want to send the guy 10 years in jail in the US, what is your defenition of "obscenity for personal gratification" during the 20 minutes in the hotel ?

You are absolutely incorrect. The US government could not give a rats ass what the Thai government. Read your law. He is subject to US law, and they will pursue him. The only way he can get away with this, is if the Thai authorities do not alert the American authorities. That is very unlikely. In the case of a 16, or 17 year old maybe, but a 13 year old will be an absolute conviction, and he will serve at least 10 years. Case closed. No evidence required, other than the fact that he was caught red handed.

So would he be handed over to the American authorities in Thailand, or will it only happen if he travels back to the US?

Presumably if the Thai authorities drop the charges (as may well happen if enough money exchanges hands) there will be nothing the US authorities can do?

The US will be only too happy to fly an assistant federal prosecutor over here to pick him up. They love doing this kind off thing.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[lemoncake]

You can only dream you got me.

So you think the member who posted the question, in a thread concerning a foreigner trapped into an underage encounter, wanted to check if the lady's he meet are 30 years of age rather than 25 ?

it is irrelevant what i think just as it is simply silly to assume as you did what the member was thinking, it is even more silly to assume as you did that member was not capable of expressing himself .

His question was pretty clear and a fair one at that, only to get response from someone like yourself who assumed he really wanted something else

[Thorgal]

After the parents charged officially Mr. Rosenthal, the police report will mention the amount of their "moral" claim for the scandal...

If he pays - due to the media, a huge sum - the charges in Thailand will be dropped.

Idem dito for the US. He will still remain suspect...in the US.

By the way, he's from Chicago...

She accepted money = prostitution (no rape)

Now, if you want to send the guy 10 years in jail in the US, what is your defenition of "obscenity for personal gratification" during the 20 minutes in the hotel ?

You are absolutely incorrect. The US government could not give a rats ass what the Thai government. Read your law. He is subject to US law, and they will pursue him. The only way he can get away with this, is if the Thai authorities do not alert the American authorities. That is very unlikely. In the case of a 16, or 17 year old maybe, but a 13 year old will be an absolute conviction, and he will serve at least 10 years. Case closed. No evidence required, other than the fact that he was caught red handed.

So would he be handed over to the American authorities in Thailand, or will it only happen if he travels back to the US?

Presumably if the Thai authorities drop the charges (as may well happen if enough money exchanges hands) there will be nothing the US authorities can do?

The US will be only too happy to fly an assistant federal prosecutor over here to pick him up. They love doing this kind off thing.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

He has been arrested in Thailand and will be sentenced according to Thai Criminal Law ... and will have to go to a Thai prison.

After 1/3 of his time he can apply for the prisoners transfer program back to the States.

- A prisoner who is interested in transferring should contact the Office of Defender Services of the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts to obtain advice as to whether a transfer

would be an appropriate option for the prisoner. Some prisoners decide not to apply for transfer after consulting with a federal public defender ("FPD") and learning that they wil spend less time in custody if they remain in the foreign country than if they transfer to the United States and have their sentence administered according to United States sentencing provisions. -

Still the transfer approvement depends on the Thai Court (their treat with US) and the final decision of the federal magistrate judge and the federal public defender their visit in the Thai prison.

Transport of prisoners are usually done by US Marshals.

I'm not shure if the US Legal Authorities like these kind of jobs. The latest revision of the US rape law will cost about 7 billion USD to the US tax-payers. You can allways blame the rapers and also...those who don't check properly the age before any undecent proposal...

[jbrain]

Hey, talking about Thai ID cards...

I haven't seen one for some time, but if somebody with a Thai wife/ Thai kids could give me a clue:

A) Is the date of birth written in western figures, like 12345, or the Thai figures ??

Is the date of birth written in the Bhuddist era, like 2535 for 1992 or what it was ??

I don't think I will ever come into the situation of checking any ID cards here, but you don't know nowadays....

It could keep me out of jail!

Both Thai and Romanised for everything.

Above is the question from Arguseye together with the correct answer from Rintein.

You can only dream you got me.

So you think the member who posted the question, in a thread concerning a foreigner trapped into an underage encounter, wanted to check if the lady's he meet are 30 years of age rather than 25 ?

it is irrelevant what i think just as it is simply silly to assume as you did what the member was thinking, it is even more silly to assume as you did that member was not capable of expressing himself .

His question was pretty clear and a fair one at that, only to get response from someone like yourself who assumed he really wanted something else

So what is your point. Arguseye clearly says " It could keep me out of jail! " so that mean he doesn't want to risk to get an underage girl by mistake because he can't read her ID card.

There are NO people below the age of 21 year in Thailand who have an ID card from which the date isn't written in western format.

So if he goes with a lady from which he can't read the birthdate because it is in Thai script, he doesn't have to worry as she is without doubt older than 21 years old.

So please educate us on the relevance of your post in which you encounter Rinteins correct reply

Edited February 2, 2013 by jbrain

[Jayman]

What is with you guys that don't know the difference between a Roman numeral and Arabic numbers?

10 = Arabic

X = Roman numeral

Sent from my GT-I9100T

[Scully]

He is an expat and should know the rules regarding Thais being hard to guesstimate their ages. 13 however is not hard to guess, it is shown through mannerisms, voice tone etc etc. This man has targeted a very young child for sex, dress it up as you like but anyone that has been here a while knows these kids trates.

There are thousands of over age girls that are available yet he chooses a girl that is 13, not 16 or 17 but 13 it's inexcusable.

[Thorgal]

He is an expat and should know the rules regarding Thais being hard to guesstimate their ages. 13 however is not hard to guess, it is shown through mannerisms, voice tone etc etc. This man has targeted a very young child for sex, dress it up as you like but anyone that has been here a while knows these kids trates.

There are thousands of over age girls that are available yet he chooses a girl that is 13, not 16 or 17 but 13 it's inexcusable.

The perpetrator’s ignorance of the victim’s age, the victim’s misrepresentation of his or her age, or the perpetrator’s bona fide belief of the victim’s age can never be raised as a defense in a

prosecution.

[Jingthing]

He is an expat and should know the rules regarding Thais being hard to guesstimate their ages. 13 however is not hard to guess, it is shown through mannerisms, voice tone etc etc. This man has targeted a very young child for sex, dress it up as you like but anyone that has been here a while knows these kids trates.

There are thousands of over age girls that are available yet he chooses a girl that is 13, not 16 or 17 but 13 it's inexcusable.

The perpetrator’s ignorance of the victim’s age, the victim’s misrepresentation of his or her age, or the perpetrator’s bona fide belief of the victim’s age can never be raised as a defense in a

prosecution.

Never in Thailand you mean? In any case, those items can certainly be discussed on an internet forum!

[Thorgal]

He is an expat and should know the rules regarding Thais being hard to guesstimate their ages. 13 however is not hard to guess, it is shown through mannerisms, voice tone etc etc. This man has targeted a very young child for sex, dress it up as you like but anyone that has been here a while knows these kids trates.

There are thousands of over age girls that are available yet he chooses a girl that is 13, not 16 or 17 but 13 it's inexcusable.

The perpetrator’s ignorance of the victim’s age, the victim’s misrepresentation of his or her age, or the perpetrator’s bona fide belief of the victim’s age can never be raised as a defense in a

prosecution.

Never in Thailand you mean? In any case, those items can certainly be discussed on an internet forum!

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

Checking her age by her ID is not so relevant if he or she made before an indecent proposal followed by an agreement.

Finding them both in a state of undress confirms the previous 'wrong' acts and acceptance of the deal itself from him (and her). The crime ends here.

Timing-wise, the police didn't do so much wrong. I wouldn't blame them too fast.

Remains the questions, who sended her there and is she really 13 years old ?

Fact is, the majority of farangs would also approach the same under-aged girls at the same time or let these girls approach to them and have the same discussions.

And real pedo's are rarely caught in such public places and circumstances.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Thorgal

[jbrain]

Fact is, the majority of farangs would also approach the same under-aged girls at the same time or let these girls approach to them and have the same discussions.

And real pedo's are rarely caught in such public places and circumstances.

I think you made a very true point there, and it's time that some posters on this forum exit the state of denial they're living in.

Edited February 2, 2013 by jbrain

[Jambo]

Fact is, the majority of farangs would also approach the same under-aged girls at the same time or let these girls approach to them and have the same discussions.

And real pedo's are rarely caught in such public places and circumstances.

I think you made a very true point there, and it's time that some posters on this forum exit the state of denial they're living in.

some posters?? maybe...

posters like me? absolutely no way

[DiNiro]

The bottom line is.

Does anyone trust the Thai police?

There may not be one single person in the entire country(including the police) that trust the police.

[ricklev]

He is an expat and should know the rules regarding Thais being hard to guesstimate their ages. 13 however is not hard to guess, it is shown through mannerisms, voice tone etc etc. This man has targeted a very young child for sex, dress it up as you like but anyone that has been here a while knows these kids trates.

There are thousands of over age girls that are available yet he chooses a girl that is 13, not 16 or 17 but 13 it's inexcusable.

The perpetrator’s ignorance of the victim’s age, the victim’s misrepresentation of his or her age, or the perpetrator’s bona fide belief of the victim’s age can never be raised as a defense in a

prosecution.

Actually, in Thailand, reasonable mistake of age is a complete defense to statutory rape if the girl is 13 or older. However, I don't know if this applies when money is involved.

Edited February 3, 2013 by ricklev

[Naam]

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

"or she approached him" = hogwash²!

[jpinx]

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

"or she approached him" = hogwash²!

I take it you have not walked down Beach Road, Pattaya at night before ? If you are not approached you must be wearing the cloak of invisibility !

[Jayman]

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

"or she approached him" = hogwash!

I take it you have not walked down Beach Road, Pattaya at night before ? If you are not approached you must be wearing the cloak of invisibility !

Nah, if you spent any amount of time here on tvf you'd quickly realize why no one would ever approach him.

Also, not sure naam walks anywhere. He has plenty of staff to drive him around.

One of his gardeners probably makes more than you did last year.

Sent from my GT-I9100T

Edited February 3, 2013 by Jayman

[Thorgal]

He is an expat and should know the rules regarding Thais being hard to guesstimate their ages. 13 however is not hard to guess, it is shown through mannerisms, voice tone etc etc. This man has targeted a very young child for sex, dress it up as you like but anyone that has been here a while knows these kids trates.

There are thousands of over age girls that are available yet he chooses a girl that is 13, not 16 or 17 but 13 it's inexcusable.

The perpetrator's ignorance of the victim's age, the victim's misrepresentation of his or her age, or the perpetrator's bona fide belief of the victim's age can never be raised as a defense in a

prosecution.

Actually, in Thailand, reasonable mistake of age is a complete defense to statutory rape if the girl is 13 or older. However, I don't know if this applies when money is involved.

Victims of child abuse are under complete defense in thai criminal law code section 276.

The only defenses possible, but not applicable in this case : if the offender has been manipulated with narcotics or if he was under menace by a third party or if he's mental ill...

If you imply "the mistake of age" as a solid/acceptable defense, your judicial systems will invite by this all perverts, pedo's and others into this country...

[wans]

at 4am she was probably the only one that looked less then 50

[Thorgal]

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

"or she approached him" = hogwash²!

Explain your statement knowing that the child doesn't need more or less alibi's to be involved in these type of cases.

Or are you confusing with US military rape law : "all thruth or all wrong" ?

Edited February 3, 2013 by Thorgal