Buying Vs Being A Lifelong Renter

[jamescollister]

If they do go and give a 20% reward, your own lawyer may very well be the informant.

Times are a changing in Thailand, more and more data basis are being linked, laws are getting enforced that were never enforced 5 or 10 years ago. Sooner or later they will get around to farang land owning. Even if they don't lock the farang up and give 6 months to sell, there will be a lot of cheap homes on the market. Which will be bought by rich Thais, it's a win win situation for the Thai Government and Thais with money, to get back prime real estate. Jim

[Gary A]

If you are saying that a Thai lawyer will draw up a government document and sign it knowing that he is in clear violation of Thai law then why would anyone hire a Thai lawyer? Your corporate papers will simply be rejected and your lawyer will be instructed on how to prepare it within the confines of Thai law. Should I get my massage girl to draw up my will or company next time?. This is not a contract that I fabricated but an official Thai document registered, stamped, and approved by the Thai government that he created so yes he is totally liable. I am 100% within the law, anyway, because I set up my company in Jan 2006 before I bought the land, and as you can read below the new "law" doesn't apply to nominee companies formed before August 2006 http://thaisolicitor.com/?p=122 Some of my friends have Thai Majority companies, which are allowed to own land. Your lawyer then issues the Thais ordinary shares while you have preferred shares thereby controlling all the assets. See http://www.thailand-...areholders.html If you are ever convicted of some crime try going to court and defending yourself because you feel a Thai lawyer doesn't have to follow Thai law. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy land, but all the millionaires/billionaires on this island own land this way. I will try to get their emails so people can warn them to sell their land.

Oh, and the reference to the police chief living next to me wasn't about him helping me. Having 125M baht on a 2M baht salary gives a clear indication of his character. He has been to my house several times and has surely checked me out so he would be the first to grab my house and land if I had done anything illegal.

Simply go to a reputable lawyer and tell him that you want to buy land under a company and retain control of it. He will then tell you how to do it and you will be safe within Thai law.

Why would anyone hire a lawyer? That IS a good question.

Reputable lawyer, that's an oxymoron for sure. You may as well have your mia noi write the contract. It would be just as binding and a lot cheaper. There may be honest lawyers in Thailand but I haven't found one. I'm not going into details but I have been skinned and it won't happen again.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Gary A

[tornado40]

Would this therefore be a good time to transfer the land/house to a trusted Thai and sign a lease agreement for 30 years?

[pinfold]

Just read yesterday Eygpt ,any foreigner bought there previously are having homes taken from them. look at Goa ,thousands of foreigners bought there years ago,land office closed down all transactions now for them,result there all standing empty,unused ,virtually abandoned. same will happen here,just look at that appraisal report last june,,enough to make anyone owning shudder,I do and Im renting

[jamescollister]

Would this therefore be a good time to transfer the land/house to a trusted Thai and sign a lease agreement for 30 years?

You can give it to my 3 year old, you will be safe for 17 or 16 years. If she is a nice girl, which I hope she grows up to be, she will let you live out your life there. Jim

[TommoPhysicist]

Would this therefore be a good time to transfer the land/house to a trusted Thai and sign a lease agreement for 30 years?

You can give it to my 3 year old, you will be safe for 17 or 16 years. If she is a nice girl, which I hope she grows up to be, she will let you live out your life there. Jim

Give it to my 1 year old, you will be safe for 19 or 18 years, he will give you 2 years longer than Jims 3 year old.

(And as you know boys are much more trustworthy than girls)

Edited February 10, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[diddums]

Give it to us...we got a kid planned in 5 years....that'll give ya 25 years.

[iluvbeaches]

I moved to Koh Samui in 2004 and rented a nice townhouse near the beach for a few years. I then bought 1 rai of seaview land under the corporation and built a large estate (registered in my name at the land office). Even though I was gouged by farangs and Thais alike I still ended up with a lovely place that I am happy with and will probably keep for a long time. Recently, I wanted to add on to it so invited fifteen builders to place bids. The add on was 200% more than the main house so I declined. I then asked the builders how much they would charge to build my new house today and they said at least 300% more than in 2007 when it was built. If I moved here today I would rent for at least six months until I found a condo on or near a beach for under 2MB. I love my house now because it is like living in a luxury resort with the ocean below and lovely gardens, but it is a lot of maintenance and as I get older (now in late fifties) it is getting more and more difficult to handle. And, by the way, I have a Thai wife, but would never put anything in her name nor has she asked me to, although I have made other arrangements to secure her future in case I die suddenly. Lastly, I wouldn't worry about losing money on your house or condo as I have farang friends who have made a fortune buying land and houses, living there, and then selling at much higher prices. Everything is a risk right now, the stock market, gold, currency trading, so why not risk on something you can live in and enjoy?

If I am reading this right, you want to get the land put in your wife's name ASAP.

Nominee companies where outlawed in 2009, any one caught now will have house and land confiscated and will be deported.

Believe they were talking a 20% of sale value as a reward for the person who informs on illegal foreign land ownership. Jim

Does this actually get enforced on a large scale? Or at all? I would have thought it would be quite easy to find out - just check the land registry to see if owner is a nominee company. Why would they need informers? And how would the property be registered at the land registry if it's outlawed?

Land office is just a registry, they don't care if the company is real or not. ,Not a law. find enforcement agency, that's a police agency's job.

Will find a newspaper article on the subject. Jim

I don't think this is enforced so long as the nominees or "partners" are wealthy enough to pass scrutiny ie. they own property themselves. In Patong I've had friends living there for over 10 years and they all own houses (European couples and mixed). If you are running the corp like a company, pay tax and do audits, have partners who are Thais with money does not seem to be a problem. That area is likely 70% foreigner "owned" I'd assume in samui it is the same deal. Probably wont work in Bangkok though!

[davejones]

Just read yesterday Eygpt ,any foreigner bought there previously are having homes taken from them. look at Goa ,thousands of foreigners bought there years ago,land office closed down all transactions now for them,result there all standing empty,unused ,virtually abandoned. same will happen here,just look at that appraisal report last june,,enough to make anyone owning shudder,I do and Im renting

Jeez, there are some really paranoid people on here. Egypt is almost having a civil war, no-one is in charge. Only a fool would compare that to Thailand. Do you really think Thais will take property from foreigners just to leave them empty? Why? What do they have to gain? Do that, and no foreigner will buy ever again. What do you think that will do to property prices? Thailand needs foreigners to buy property. If you were a Thai, what would you do? 1. Sell property to foreigners and make loads of money, or 2. take all property from them and just leave it to be abandoned. I can assure you that Thais have a lot more sense than you seem to have.

Edited February 10, 2013 by davejones

[maxtingtong]

I'm for rent all the way. Cheap, move out when I want to, no risks to be cheated out. Plenty of houses on sale here from thai wives of optimistic farangs. If lucky they get 50% back.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Jeez, there are some really paranoid people on here. Egypt is almost having a civil war, no-one is in charge. Only a fool would compare that to Thailand. Do you really think Thais will take property from foreigners just to leave them empty? Why? What do they have to gain? Do that, and no foreigner will buy ever again. What do you think that will do to property prices?

OK. Don't compare Thailand with Egypt; compare Thailand with India. Look at the similarities between Thailand and Goa for example. Then ask if Indians can do what they have done in Goa, why shouldn't Thais do the same?

[MAJIC]

4. If you are lucky you get to keep 50% of the house value,if you get divorced.So a 50% loss on what you paid for!

Edited February 10, 2013 by MAJIC

[rgs2001uk]

Jeez, there are some really paranoid people on here. Egypt is almost having a civil war, no-one is in charge. Only a fool would compare that to Thailand. Do you really think Thais will take property from foreigners just to leave them empty? Why? What do they have to gain? Do that, and no foreigner will buy ever again. What do you think that will do to property prices?

OK. Don't compare Thailand with Egypt; compare Thailand with India. Look at the similarities between Thailand and Goa for example. Then ask if Indians can do what they have done in Goa, why shouldn't Thais do the same?

The mere mention of a certain man now living in Dubai is enough to have many break out in a cold sweat.

Now imagine what damage he could do given the chance.

[Fgis]

I always buy anywhere I go because I am the one who decide when I want to leave or not, NOT ANYBODY ELSE.

And buying is so cheap in Thailand, why even having to discuss it ?

[Spoonman]

I always buy anywhere I go because I am the one who decide when I want to leave or not, NOT ANYBODY ELSE.

And buying is so cheap in Thailand, why even having to discuss it ?

lmao, do you seriously believe the choice to stay or go in Thailand is yours......... think again.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

I always buy anywhere I go because I am the one who decide when I want to leave or not, NOT ANYBODY ELSE

Ah. So you have permanent residence here do you? You dont have to ask for a visa extension every year, or for a work permit, or do visa runs every 90 days?

One big reason I have against buying here is that I have no right of abode here, even though I am lucky enough to be in the group (over 50s with 800K in the bank) that probably gets the easiest and cheapest yearly permission to stay here. I dont fancy buying property in a country that wont let me live in it until I die.

And buying is so cheap in Thailand, why even having to discuss it ?

Actually one main aspect of this discussion is that purchase prices here are unreasonably (and probably unsustainably) high when compared to rental prices. And many rental prices are much higher here than they would be elsewhere for the same type of property.

[rgs2001uk]

I always buy anywhere I go because I am the one who decide when I want to leave or not, NOT ANYBODY ELSE

Ah. So you have permanent residence here do you? You dont have to ask for a visa extension every year, or for a work permit, or do visa runs every 90 days?

One big reason I have against buying here is that I have no right of abode here, even though I am lucky enough to be in the group (over 50s with 800K in the bank) that probably gets the easiest and cheapest yearly permission to stay here. I dont fancy buying property in a country that wont let me live in it until I die.

And buying is so cheap in Thailand, why even having to discuss it ?

Actually one main aspect of this discussion is that purchase prices here are unreasonably (and probably unsustainably) high when compared to rental prices. And many rental prices are much higher here than they would be elsewhere for the same type of property.

Older established moo baan Bkk, 250sm house 10k per month rent.

Same house can be bought for 5.5 million.

Ah the dilemma, to buy or rent?

[pinfold]

I always buy anywhere I go because I am the one who decide when I want to leave or not, NOT ANYBODY ELSE.

And buying is so cheap in Thailand, why even having to discuss it ?

Now this is a quote I Iike to see! NOBODY else decides if you live here,just you? Would I not be mistaken that you exist here in Thailand under a visa regime?,coupled with 90 day reporting Under no illusions of the previous June statement,and other certainties that will overwhelm the kingdom in the not too distant future. Love the statement that you personally will decide when you want to leave,well try it now,go on try and sell,if now is not the time for planning,go on give it a shot,call it an experiment.So many pressures now building in the Kingdom,you will be swatted like a fly

[pinfold]

Just read yesterday Eygpt ,any foreigner bought there previously are having homes taken from them. look at Goa ,thousands of foreigners bought there years ago,land office closed down all transactions now for them,result there all standing empty,unused ,virtually abandoned. same will happen here,just look at that appraisal report last june,,enough to make anyone owning shudder,I do and Im renting

Jeez, there are some really paranoid people on here. Egypt is almost having a civil war, no-one is in charge. Only a fool would compare that to Thailand. Do you really think Thais will take property from foreigners just to leave them empty? Why? What do they have to gain? Do that, and no foreigner will buy ever again. What do you think that will do to property prices? Thailand needs foreigners to buy property. If you were a Thai, what would you do? 1. Sell property to foreigners and make loads of money, or 2. take all property from them and just leave it to be abandoned. I can assure you that Thais have a lot more sense than you seem to have.

Thailand need idiot foreigners to buy property more like

[jamescollister]

Question for those who buy homes under the company route. Company is a business and you are running said business, do you have a work permit, or are you working illegally.

So many holes in all these home owning schemes, one day a Government agency will act and there will be nothing anyone can say or do. Jim

[guzzi850m2]

Over 100 post on the subject so here is my take.

It all depends of your situation, in my case; married and a kid so for me buying make sense. Why? If I died now my wife will get the house (upper middle class ~ 9 mill bath or so) which she can sell/keep or whatever she might want.

In a owned house you can do whatever you want (within reason) and we did a lot of modifications in ours both inside and out (incl in above price). We always have some projects going which is nice and not too expensive.

When it's paid off (it is) then you can live cheap, no monthly rent which is good when I retire in app. 15 years time.

The bad: Yes I know my wife can terminate the lease in case of divorce and I would have to fight her in court if I wanted 1/2 back but I think I would be so sad about it that I would just walk away but I think that's very unlikely as she is a loving wife/mother and always tells the rest of her family to get fxxxxx when they ask her for money.

Finally I have all my pensions funds overseas which are still growing and waiting for me in 10-15 years time.

[davejones]

Jeez, there are some really paranoid people on here. Egypt is almost having a civil war, no-one is in charge. Only a fool would compare that to Thailand. Do you really think Thais will take property from foreigners just to leave them empty? Why? What do they have to gain? Do that, and no foreigner will buy ever again. What do you think that will do to property prices?

OK. Don't compare Thailand with Egypt; compare Thailand with India. Look at the similarities between Thailand and Goa for example. Then ask if Indians can do what they have done in Goa, why shouldn't Thais do the same?

And the do it in Spain, so it must follow that they can do it in UK and USA as well. Thais will never take legally bought condos from foreigners.

[jamescollister]

Over 100 post on the subject so here is my take.

It all depends of your situation, in my case; married and a kid so for me buying make sense. Why? If I died now my wife will get the house (upper middle class ~ 9 mill bath or so) which she can sell/keep or whatever she might want.

In a owned house you can do whatever you want (within reason) and we did a lot of modifications in ours both inside and out (incl in above price). We always have some projects going which is nice and not too expensive.

When it's paid off (it is) then you can live cheap, no monthly rent which is good when I retire in app. 15 years time.

The bad: Yes I know my wife can terminate the lease in case of divorce and I would have to fight her in court if I wanted 1/2 back but I think I would be so sad about it that I would just walk away but I think that's very unlikely as she is a loving wife/mother and always tells the rest of her family to get fxxxxx when they ask her for money.

Finally I have all my pensions funds overseas which are still growing and waiting for me in 10-15 years time.

Why would you bother with a possibly illegal lease [ attempting to circumvent Thai land laws ] and not just leave it all in your wife's name.

I have a house and over 100 rai of land, no leases, usufructs, etc it's all hers. I sleep well, have no fear that one day some Government agency will come looking, whether it be the Labor department, Business Department or some other police agency. These things are illegal and whether they are enforced or not, chances are you have broke Thai law, that alone can get you banned from entering Thailand. Jim

Edited February 11, 2013 by jamescollister

[guzzi850m2]

Why would you bother with a possibly illegal lease [ attempting to circumvent Thai land laws ] and not just leave it all in your wife's name.

I have a house and over 100 rai of land, no leases, usufructs, etc it's all hers. I sleep well, have no fear that one day some Government agency will come looking, whether it be the Labor department, Business Department or some other police agency. These things are illegal and whether they are enforced or not, chances are you have broke Thai law, that alone can get you banned from entering Thailand. Jim

To the best of my knowledge a 30 year lease is 100% legal? It's made at the land office no lawyers involved.

Edited February 11, 2013 by guzzi850m2

[davejones]

One big reason I have against buying here is that I have no right of abode here, even though I am lucky enough to be in the group (over 50s with 800K in the bank) that probably gets the easiest and cheapest yearly permission to stay here. I dont fancy buying property in a country that wont let me live in it until I die.

You are right about this one. I know there are some people here who bought, but then couldn't meet the income limit for getting a visa renewal because the currency moved against them so much. Limits could also be raised in future. But still, if I had family and was planning to stay forever, I'd still buy, because I'd want my family to be secure. Only way to avoid currency risks is to stay at home. Most would prefer to take the risk. Life is full of risks, and some are worth taking.

I still think this thread is a pessimist vs optimist debate.

[jamescollister]

Why would you bother with a possibly illegal lease [ attempting to circumvent Thai land laws ] and not just leave it all in your wife's name.

I have a house and over 100 rai of land, no leases, usufructs, etc it's all hers. I sleep well, have no fear that one day some Government agency will come looking, whether it be the Labor department, Business Department or some other police agency. These things are illegal and whether they are enforced or not, chances are you have broke Thai law, that alone can get you banned from entering Thailand. Jim

To the best of my knowledge a 30 year lease is 100% legal? It's made at the land office no lawyers involved.

If you signed a declaration when you bought the land, that you make no claim to the land and the money was a gift to your wife, then get a lease, but pay no rent. It clearly is an attempt to circumvent the land law.

Signing the declaration is a criminal offense carry's up to 5 years jail.

Have post the act on here a few days ago. Jim

[davejones]

Why would you bother with a possibly illegal lease [ attempting to circumvent Thai land laws ] and not just leave it all in your wife's name.

I have a house and over 100 rai of land, no leases, usufructs, etc it's all hers. I sleep well, have no fear that one day some Government agency will come looking, whether it be the Labor department, Business Department or some other police agency. These things are illegal and whether they are enforced or not, chances are you have broke Thai law, that alone can get you banned from entering Thailand. Jim

To the best of my knowledge a 30 year lease is 100% legal? It's made at the land office no lawyers involved.

Yes it's legal.

[jamescollister]

Why would you bother with a possibly illegal lease [ attempting to circumvent Thai land laws ] and not just leave it all in your wife's name.

I have a house and over 100 rai of land, no leases, usufructs, etc it's all hers. I sleep well, have no fear that one day some Government agency will come looking, whether it be the Labor department, Business Department or some other police agency. These things are illegal and whether they are enforced or not, chances are you have broke Thai law, that alone can get you banned from entering Thailand. Jim

To the best of my knowledge a 30 year lease is 100% legal? It's made at the land office no lawyers involved.

Yes it's legal.

If you pay the rent it's legal, land office will have deemed the rental value, tax department will deem the rental value of house and land as income. So to be legal you have to actually pay the rent or it is a scheme control land. Jim

[guzzi850m2]

Well Jim you seems to know more about it than me. I think I signed a paper that says that the money is not coming from me.

I sleep very well at night thank you very much, if they want to clamp down on the different expat "land owner" ships in Thailand I am sure they will go for the company route owner ships first.

I can't see why anything I signed at the land office should be illegal and I don't understand why I shall pay rent on something I leased, but if it came to that, I guess we could quickly make a rental agreement and sign the papers and that's it.

Why can't the Thais do as the Malaysians? It's not that we can take the land out of Thailand if we decide to leave. I guess they are scared that the whole Kingdom ends in expat hands.

[parallaxtech]

All of us speculating about whether it is legal or illegal for a farang to own land is the same as taxi drivers discussing the risks of neurosurgery. Find the largest law firm in your area, one that has farang legal consultants, in case you don't trust the word of a Thai lawyer. The first consultation is free so go in and tell them that you have quite a bit of money to invest in land, which you want to either own outright or control through a company. They will then discuss the legal ways that you can do this. Remember, every law has a legal loophole, and if that loophole closes then the lawyer will find another one.

Regarding my house and land, last year the Thai government sent officers over to Koh Samui to review all properties owned by farangs through companies. It must have been a spot check, because it would have taken years to check all the landowners here. First, they met with my lawyer and then my accountant, and finally called me in for an interview. I was a bit nervous as I was not 100% convinced that I was within Thai law. They asked me a series of questions and then told me to get in their truck as they wanted to photograph my house and land. After doing this we all reconvened at the accountant's office. They made a phone call back to the Suratthani office and then announced that my company and land were all within the confines of Thai law. A few other neighbors went through the same process and I never heard of anyone being rejected.

Once again nobody is saying on here to break the "law." Just make sure things are set up by a law firm who will defend your rights in case the government comes calling as they did with me. I find that people stating that they rent because buying land is illegal usually don't have the money to buy so that justifies them living in a hovel.

Most of Koh Samui (75%) and Phuket (90%) are owned/controlled by farangs so I'm sure they would go after the big fish first and we would all have plenty of warning, because it would be major news on BBC and CNN. And, as the law states, even if the government finds fault with your land under a corporation, you still have six months to change it into another legal structure or sell it.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/articles/2011/article10604.html