U K Parliament Backs Gay Marriage Bill

[SteeleJoe]

May the best homosexuals win.

That leaves me out then! Not sure about everybody else...

[Scott]

Some very off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. More should be deleted, but it would only act to completely gut the thread.

Please stay on topic. Be civil.

[thaicbr]

I believe I have made it clear about what I believe in and why.

For centuries the act of marriage has been between a man and a women. Simply put we do not want that to change. We see no reason for that to change.

In the UK homosexuals have an alternative to suit their alternative lifestyle.

[thaicbr]

May the best homosexuals win.

That leaves me out then! Not sure about everybody else...

So your not homosexual or not a good homosexual?

[endure]

Marriages do not need the HOLY part. That is optional.

That part is also a new modern invention

Civil marriages have been legal in the UK since 1836.

[SteeleJoe]

May the best homosexuals win.

That leaves me out then! Not sure about everybody else...

So your not homosexual or not a good homosexual?

Sorry for the confusion: Not only am I not the best homosexual, I'm not homosexual at all.

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[thaicbr]

Marriages do not need the HOLY part. That is optional.

That part is also a new modern invention

Civil marriages have been legal in the UK since 1836.

Told you it was modern :D

[FritsSikkink]

If you do not understand the importance of the word "marriage" why are you fighting for it.

Marriage is a union between a man and women..

[transam]

Marriages do not need the HOLY part. That is optional.

That part is also a new modern invention

Civil marriages have been legal in the UK since 1836.

My ex was never civil. ..................

[onthemoon]

Marriages do not need the HOLY part. That is optional.

That part is also a new modern invention

Civil marriages have been legal in the UK since 1836.

Civil marriages between man and woman, that is. Homosexual acts and life styles were certainly not legal then.

[onthemoon]

So gay people getting married stops you from continuing humanity not to mention the gay families that do have children? I don't understand this. Do you think being gay is contagious or something? Gay people are a TINY minority! To me it comes off as a power play. Straight men run the world so some straight men want to preserve something special, the top dog position, for themselves.

THEN DO YOUR OWN THING, leave us folk to do our traditional stuff. WE will not interfere with what you want to do, good luck, but please back off from interfering with our stuff. Please.

Nobody wants to interfere with the traditional marriage. Just let the homosexuals have their marriage too. How would that hurt you?

[thaicbr]

If you do not understand the importance of the word "marriage" why are you fighting for it.

Marriage is a union between a man and women..

And????

You have the right to learn and understand what your reading... maybe in evening class as your struggling now.

I am not religious i have stated that several times.... so please keep your pompous anti religious statements to yourself do not include me..

I have also stated all along that i have NO problem with Gay people and their civil rights. But i just do not agree that they have to take a traditional heterosexual institution which is marriage.

Take care all.

[thaicbr]

So gay people getting married stops you from continuing humanity not to mention the gay families that do have children? I don't understand this. Do you think being gay is contagious or something? Gay people are a TINY minority! To me it comes off as a power play. Straight men run the world so some straight men want to preserve something special, the top dog position, for themselves.

THEN DO YOUR OWN THING, leave us folk to do our traditional stuff. WE will not interfere with what you want to do, good luck, but please back off from interfering with our stuff. Please.

Nobody wants to interfere with the traditional marriage. Just let the homosexuals have their marriage too. How would that hurt you?

in the Uk they have that already.. civil partnership.

[onthemoon]

Anyway, UK gay people are in a good position. If you win this, that's great, if you lose this, you've still got a choice much better than most gay people in the world.

BTW, favoring gay marriage equality is not the same thing as advocating that people, gay or straight, actually get married.

The issue is about full equality of choices, not forcing or even encouraging gay people into traditional heterosexual boxes if they don't wish to go there.

Many gay people want this full marriage equality for themselves and many or most probably will never enter into either civil unions or marriage. I think people of good will would want to grant the wish for full marriage equality under the law to those to wish for it. It doesn't take anything away from the heterosexually married.

Very true. I do not understand why this is such an issue.

I assume most of the posters live in Thailand where pretty well everything goes and is accepted. If we can deal with it here then why care about this new law in the UK?

All it means is people can have an option earlier denied. It does not impact my life one iota.

People should be able to have the same rights irrespective of there sexual persuasion.

It is called equality.

The discussion is about changing the stuff we know as n............. for folk who are different to the n..............

Next thing clergyman's marriage text will be changed.

'' I now pronounce you man and eeeeeer, hmmmm''

'' You may kiss the eeeeeeeer hmmmm''

''I now I pronounce you eeeeeer hmmm''

You obviously didn't watch the video I posted earlier. The clergyman said, "I now pronounce you man and man" and "you may kiss the groom". - Now, was that so difficult?

[Simhne]

Morden, thank God you're not in the UK to heap further opprobrium on queers and thank God the country has moved on to more sane policies since your departure.

I am CP'd to my partner and am overjoyed at the opportunity to put our relationship on a truly equal footing to those of my hetero friends. Please God Thailand will adopt similar equality legislation before too long and you will have an opportunity to change your mind when you witness the beauty of love and commitment of whatever nature, straight, lesbian or gay.

[Jingthing]

We have been directed here to focus on the specific UK same sex marriage legislation and not on the more general area of gay families with children.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Jingthing

[endure]

That's correct. The topic is about the Gay Marriage Bill in the UK - not the generalities of gay parenting.

[SteeleJoe]

Nature? It's ridiculous to act as if "nature" has a position on issues and it's no less ridiculous to allow nature to indicate what is or isn't right.

Antiseptic and heart surgery aren't "natural" either. I'm guessing not many of you are against them. Any of you get braces for your children's teeth?

One can absolutely make the argument that monogamous marriage isn't "natural" for ANYONE. Not only is it a man made construct, it arguably conflicts with nature.

EDIT TO ADD: Upon consideration I decided to add a rea life example that I was going to leave out: my daughter was born with a condition which is the leading cause of mental retardation outside of Down's Syndrome. It can also prevent not only proper brain development, but dwarfism, deafness and a shortened lifespan. However, IF detected by a simple blood test within the first 10 days of a child's life, it can be 100% treatable with a simple daily pill.

My daughter's blood was tested for this at birth as a matter of routine (NOT NATURAL).

She was given an MRI for further diagnosis (NOT NATURAL).

She has taken a tiny pill every day of her life (NOT NATURAL).

She is completely normal in every way: and in fact all tests show her physical and mental development are at the upper end of the range and her problem has been completely corrected. If we had left it to nature, she'd possibly lived a relatively short life as a deaf, mentally retarded dwarf. (NATURAL).

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I am not sure how this relates to the topic. Are you saying that homosexuals should be given daily pills from an early age, and then they get "cured" or whatever? Are you saying that being gay is a birth defect?

Yes, that's clearly what I was saying. After pages and pages of arguing with people against gay marriage and repeatedly expressing objections about what I saw as disrespect of homosexuals as equal human beings worthy of just as much regard as anyone else, I posted how I thought being gay was a birth defect and also proposed it could be cured with a pill. This is especially obvious when one reads the post I was replying to, isn't it?

Oh, but wait..why don't you see how my post relates to the topic if you read the post it was in response to? Odd...

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[Chicog]

I believe I have made it clear about what I believe in and why.

For centuries the act of marriage has been between a man and a women. Simply put we do not want that to change. We see no reason for that to change.

In the UK homosexuals have an alternative to suit their alternative lifestyle.

Simply put, who is "we"?

Because there are a load of people (myself included) who think it's absolutely none of your business.

[Chicog]

The solution to this is very easy: Abolish all subsidies and tax breaks to the church.

Weddings bring in a whole load of cash, they'll be begging the usually affluent gay community to come to them.

And while you are at it, kick those 26 unelected misogynist dinosaur bishops out of the legislature, they do not belong there. Separation of Church and State!

So your anti religion then.

Absolutely. It's the biblical brainwashing from birth that creates all this homophobia in the first place.

Just to lighten the tone a bit, this was posted in response to US Radio Host Dr. Laura, a hypocrite if ever there was one, as she dispenses holier-than-thou family advice on the radio, only to be embarrassed when her married lover sold his skin pics of her to a web site.

It rather aptly sums up why people of religion are so confused.

Laura Schlesinger is a US radio personality, who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. She recently said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination, according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstances. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the Internet.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.

Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

Homer Simpson-Caldwell

Edited February 11, 2013 by Chicog

[thaicbr]

I believe I have made it clear about what I believe in and why.

For centuries the act of marriage has been between a man and a women. Simply put we do not want that to change. We see no reason for that to change.

In the UK homosexuals have an alternative to suit their alternative lifestyle.

Simply put, who is "we"?

Because there are a load of people (myself included) who think it's absolutely none of your business.

That last statement is a bit daft. Of course it can be my business as it can be the business of any citizen of the UK.

In reality if you are not a citizen of the UK it's none of YOUR business.

Edited February 12, 2013 by thaicbr

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

Please stay on the topic.

[Chicog]

That last statement is a bit daft. Of course it can be my business as it can be the business of any citizen of the UK.

In reality if you are not a citizen of the UK it's none of YOUR business.

But I am, so it also means I'm perfectly entitled to criticise interfering homophobic curtain twitchers.

[thaicbr]

Why would you criticize another's beliefs?

I certainly have not criticized anyone's beliefs on this thread.

Or in fact accused them of something they are not.

Edited February 12, 2013 by thaicbr

[Chicog]

Why would you criticize another's beliefs?

I certainly have not criticized anyone's beliefs on this thread.

Or in fact accused them of something they are not.

I'll criticise anyone's personal beliefs when they think it gives them special rights that are over and above anyone else's personal beliefs.

If two Jedi want to get married in a church, as long as it is being subsidised by state revenue, they should have the right.

[transam]

Why would you criticize another's beliefs?

I certainly have not criticized anyone's beliefs on this thread.

Or in fact accused them of something they are not.

I'll criticise anyone's personal beliefs when they think it gives them special rights that are over and above anyone else's personal beliefs.

If two Jedi want to get married in a church, as long as it is being subsidised by state revenue, they should have the right.

As long as it's being subsidies by the state eh. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[Scott]

Argumentative and combative, off-topic posts are being deleted. Stick to the topic and be civil.

[SteeleJoe]

I asked the questions I did earlier because I really wonder about people who seem to use the argument "It should be this way because it always has been" - I find that sort of thinking rather...extraordinary, and it brings a quote to mind...

I'm afraid the man who said the following wasn't British but he started life as a subject of the empire and certainly he is widely regarded on both sides of the pond (and much of the world) as a remarkable man of formidable intellect and monumental achievement. This is one of my favorite quotes as it is sums up so well progressive thought applied to politics and thus is apt for so many issues - including the one discussed in this thread:

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

Thomas Jefferson

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[Chicog]

An even more informed comment from a female journalist:

The church, in seeking to be above the law, is now a discriminatory organisation, though it holds 26 seats in the House in Lords, from which women are barred. This effective debarring of women from the legislative process is more than an "embarrassment", it is profoundly undemocratic.

A secular country – and that is largely what we are – should have no truck with this. Why on earth should we respect this bizarre sect any longer? The separation of church and state is long overdue. An institution that allows the maintenance of a stained glass ceiling for its female clergy to bang their heads against should not only lose its moral authority. Let it also lose its unearned privileges.

[thaicbr]

An even more informed comment from a female journalist:

The church, in seeking to be above the law, is now a discriminatory organisation, though it holds 26 seats in the House in Lords, from which women are barred. This effective debarring of women from the legislative process is more than an "embarrassment", it is profoundly undemocratic.

A secular country – and that is largely what we are – should have no truck with this. Why on earth should we respect this bizarre sect any longer? The separation of church and state is long overdue. An institution that allows the maintenance of a stained glass ceiling for its female clergy to bang their heads against should not only lose its moral authority. Let it also lose its unearned privileges.

Why not take you anti church rants elsewhere.