Going To Laos With Lao Girlfriend.

[Puyai]

I am currently living in Thailand with my girlfriend and my son. Me, my Lao girlfriend and my son were planning a trip back to Laos for Songkran. I have read some horror stories about Lao police extorting money from foreigners for being with Lao girls before marriage so I have a few questions:

1) Is this still the case, will they want my money?

2) Will we have problems with Lao immigration if we go through together?

3) Will it be a good idea for her and my son to go through immigration first and then for me to follow on afterwards?

4) Is it also possible for my son to cross the border without a passport and just his Thai birth certificate as identification?

Help would be gratefully appreciated!

Thanks, Puyai

[brewsterbudgen]

I'm not an expert, but I've travelled to Laos with my Lao girlfriend a few times without hassle (but we don't have a kid). Admittedly I usually stay in a hotel and not at the family home with her (it's rather primitive and crowded with kids & animals). As I understand it, problems are only likely to arise if someone tips off the "authorities" that an unmarried Lao & non-Lao couple are staying together.

But hopefully someone more qualified will post soon!

[ubonjoe]

Can't answer 1-3.

4. If child was a Thai citizen he would need to get a border pass which would only be good for 3 days.

Since I assume child is not a Thai citizen are you talking about him entering as a Lao citizen. I suspect you would need something from the Lao Embassy or consulate for him to enter Laos.

But he would not get back into Thailand unless he had a passport.

[Puyai]

Can't answer 1-3.

4. If child was a Thai citizen he would need to get a border pass which would only be good for 3 days.

Since I assume child is not a Thai citizen are you talking about him entering as a Lao citizen. I suspect you would need something from the Lao Embassy or consulate for him to enter Laos.

But he would not get back into Thailand unless he had a passport.

Great information, thanks. Looks like I've got a trip to the Lao Embassy coming soon. I was worried about them asking for a marriage certificate and my girlfriend getting into some sort of trouble. I have also heard that the Lao Embassy is not that helpful towards their own citizens. If we want to go to Laos I guess I'll just have to find out for myself.

Thanks again

[hopdafru]

1) Is this still the case, will they want my money?

It depends. If you stay together in the village long enough and someone decides to call the army / police to share the prize it'll cost you... now more so in the $500 range but could be more. Also depends on the province: e.g. LuangPrabang is known to be very severe.

Very little to worry if you are staying in a hotel or even local guest house. If you want to visit the village, your gf will ask permission to the naibaan / village chief and you should be ok for a night or two (always a good idea to bring a bag of coffee to the office). In any case she will know.

2) Will we have problems with Lao immigration if we go through together?

No, you're not registered in any way (I assume... - you didn't declare the kid to the Lao authorities did you?)

3) Will it be a good idea for her and my son to go through immigration first and then for me to follow on afterwards?

If you go together don't show any signs of affection and you should be ok (people might start asking about you, your luuk kheung etc. though). To avoid any tipoff or such - and just for your own 'good feeling' - there's nothing to loose going seperately, it's only a few minutes anyways on the Lao side.

4) Is it also possible for my son to cross the border without a passport and just his Thai birth certificate as identification?

not sure, usually needs a family book or such (free 3 day visit?), maybe lovelaos has an idea.

Edited February 13, 2013 by hopdafru

[hopdafru]

Can't answer 1-3.

4. If child was a Thai citizen he would need to get a border pass which would only be good for 3 days.

Since I assume child is not a Thai citizen are you talking about him entering as a Lao citizen. I suspect you would need something from the Lao Embassy or consulate for him to enter Laos.

But he would not get back into Thailand unless he had a passport.

Great information, thanks. Looks like I've got a trip to the Lao Embassy coming soon. I was worried about them asking for a marriage certificate and my girlfriend getting into some sort of trouble. I have also heard that the Lao Embassy is not that helpful towards their own citizens. If we want to go to Laos I guess I'll just have to find out for myself.

Thanks again

I'd be carefull going to the Lao embassy, if they learn about your trip with gf/child and not being married you could be setting yourself up - info would go straight to the government / immigration and you could find yourself with reduced options in the future (if you decide to get married, already having a kid can cost dearly; people usually declare that they had no sex before marriage at the police interview - ie. there are no kids - even if everyone konws it's BS...)

Why not just go ahead with the kid's passport (falang or thai?) - might just cost 1000 baht and you get 30 days no questions asked.

SokhDee.

PS: are you flying in or going through the bridge?

[Thanyaburi Mac]

What nationality are you? If AmCit, go ahead and get a passport for the kid. Others nationalities, don't know the rules.

Mac

[Puyai]

Can't answer 1-3.

4. If child was a Thai citizen he would need to get a border pass which would only be good for 3 days.

Since I assume child is not a Thai citizen are you talking about him entering as a Lao citizen. I suspect you would need something from the Lao Embassy or consulate for him to enter Laos.

But he would not get back into Thailand unless he had a passport.

Great information, thanks. Looks like I've got a trip to the Lao Embassy coming soon. I was worried about them asking for a marriage certificate and my girlfriend getting into some sort of trouble. I have also heard that the Lao Embassy is not that helpful towards their own citizens. If we want to go to Laos I guess I'll just have to find out for myself.

Thanks again

I'd be carefull going to the Lao embassy, if they learn about your trip with gf/child and not being married you could be setting yourself up - info would go straight to the government / immigration and you could find yourself with reduced options in the future (if you decide to get married, already having a kid can cost dearly; people usually declare that they had no sex before marriage at the police interview - ie. there are no kids - even if everyone konws it's BS...)

Why not just go ahead with the kid's passport (falang or thai?) - might just cost 1000 baht and you get 30 days no questions asked.

SokhDee.

PS: are you flying in or going through the bridge?

Even if she went to the Embassy on her own and told them I've left the country?

I'm British. I sent my passport away for renewal last week. By the time it comes back I don't think I'll have time to apply for my sons British passport to go to Laos in time for Songkran. Might be the best option to wait and get him a British passport then go. Would they be able to do anything to me then?

[Puyai]

I was going to go over the bridge. What would be the best option?

[Puyai]

1) Is this still the case, will they want my money?

It depends. If you stay together in the village long enough and someone decides to call the army / police to share the prize it'll cost you... now more so in the $500 range but could be more. Also depends on the province: e.g. LuangPrabang is known to be very severe.

Very little to worry if you are staying in a hotel or even local guest house. If you want to visit the village, your gf will ask permission to the naibaan / village chief and you should be ok for a night or two (always a good idea to bring a bag of coffee to the office). In any case she will know.

2) Will we have problems with Lao immigration if we go through together?

No, you're not registered in any way (I assume... - you didn't declare the kid to the Lao authorities did you?)

3) Will it be a good idea for her and my son to go through immigration first and then for me to follow on afterwards?

If you go together don't show any signs of affection and you should be ok (people might start asking about you, your luuk kheung etc. though). To avoid any tipoff or such - and just for your own 'good feeling' - there's nothing to loose going seperately, it's only a few minutes anyways on the Lao side.

4) Is it also possible for my son to cross the border without a passport and just his Thai birth certificate as identification?

not sure, usually needs a family book or such (free 3 day visit?), maybe lovelaos has an idea.

We were planning on staying in Vientiane for a few days with her family. Her family say it wont be a problem but I'm not too sure!

We haven't declared the kid to any authority yet.

I'm starting to think it'll be the best idea to wait until I get his British passport then go.

[hopdafru]

If possible before Pimai, I would wait for the passport and avoid the embassy. Then enter across the bridge using 2 separate booths (your gf and son through one, you through another)

I wouldn't get too paranoid though, my advice is general (and based on the info you provide) and to avoid unnecessary stress - Laotians are mostly cool and you should be fine in Vientiane if gf and family tell you it's ok. In doubt, stay at a nearby hotel or guesthouse (plenty in the sticks / suburbs - lots of clean brand new ones with hot water, A/C)

As far as crossing, never had trouble at bridge / boat landing - had some issues at airport though (some friends as well) as they are more 'serious' - generally, keep your cool and smile, whatever happens; and if needed have your gf do the talking.

Can you expedite passport for your son (before mid april?) Pimai is a big deal for Laotians and a time when almost everyone returns home to visit the family - your gf and family might be disappointed if you can't all make it.

The 'kid' issue is an important one though and you should gather as much info / input as possible - e.g. if your gf can enter Laos with just a birth certificate that could be interesting (how do they get out though?)

FYI British embassy/consulate just opened in Vientiane but they probably don't have much experience with these particular issues yet.

Again, don't get too paranoid, keep your smile and get as much info as possible from different sources, including about your gf/family, many have gotten burned here / lost money / spent time in jail (usually their 'fault' / misguided action). note: serious issues usually come up a couple/few years down the road but with warning signs.

how long have you been together? Have you visited the family together before? what does your gf say?

SokhDee.

[Maestro]

I deleted an off-topic post and the reply to it.

[hgma]

1.Having dual nationality is strictly forbidden under ALL circumstances in Laos (IF discovered "severe" consequentes could be imposed)

2.Having a child out of wedlock is considered "not apropriate" if one was already engaged to be married. a costly mistake if not engaged at all.

3.Reporting/cirtify/legalize a non married child for passport at a Lao embassy is foolish and could be very costly indeed.

4.Seperate entry and stay during Lao visit is highly recommended.

5.In case of marriage plans marry INSIDE Laos ( 'some' reliable marriage counselors in Laos)

Source of information

Lao Law Consultantcy

On a study I conducted regarding same situation and The Lao Law on Nationality

As a result LLC conducted a thorough investigation inside the Interior ministry and came up with a written statement regarding subject.

Good Luck.

[brewsterbudgen]

1.Having dual nationality is strictly forbidden under ALL circumstances in Laos (IF discovered "severe" consequentes could be imposed)

2.Having a child out of wedlock is considered "not apropriate" if one was already engaged to be married. a costly mistake if not engaged at all.

3.Reporting/cirtify/legalize a non married child for passport at a Lao embassy is foolish and could be very costly indeed.

4.Seperate entry and stay during Lao visit is highly recommended.

5.In case of marriage plans marry INSIDE Laos ( 'some' reliable marriage counselors in Laos)

Source of information

Lao Law Consultantcy

On a study I conducted regarding same situation and The Lao Law on Nationality

As a result LLC conducted a thorough investigation inside the Interior ministry and came up with a written statement regarding subject.

Good Luck.

But in practice it's not quite as bad as this!

[Asiantravel]

people usually declare that they had no sex before marriage at the police interview -

I have often wondered how a country next to Thailand could think so differently?

I remember going there for the first time about eight years ago and seeing the signs on the back of the hotel door that it was strictly illegal for anyone to be in your room unless you are married.

How did they ever get to be so prudish?

[phuketrichard]

no different than Cambodia where any westerner over 50 cannot marry a Cambodia Girl;

each country has its own rules

AS to your son, is it her son as well? did u ever register the birth with the lao embassy? I assume ur name is on the birth certificate.

don't know for brits but when i got my daughter her US passport ( i was not married to her mom at the time) we had to go to the US Embassy and have 2 witness swear that we had lived together and the child was mine

i would 100% get him his Brit passport before u travel. so he can travel as British citizen otherwise what nationality does he hold?

If all u have is a thai birth certificate , how are u going to get him back into Thailand? Thailand might not even let him leave.

If it was me i would not even consider this trip without a British passport in ur last name for ur son.

Edited February 17, 2013 by phuketrichard

[turgid]

I went to Laos with my Laos GF not knowing any of the above and we did OK. I tried to have some empathy for how her family and neighbours would feel about her coming home with an old white guy and acted appropriately I noticed she dressed a little more conservatively than she would in Bangkok. What she told me is her family had to check with the local police if it was OK for me to come to the village. Apparently they did and it was. She told me lots of married Thais like to have a Laos girlfriend and it tends to irritate the locals so they make it difficult sometimes. I decided to stay in a hotel in the nearest big town partly to avoid her having "face" problems but mainly because I like to keep control of my accommodation when i go to new places. I don't really understand the politics of Laos but its apparent to me that there is a system where the local police have more of a say in what can and cannot go on. Think eastern europe pre-wall but post the bad parts. I had one guy who was clearly some kind of police or security ask me why I was in Laos and told him I wanted to learn a bit more about the place and he said carry on. The only thing he seemed to be concerned about was whether I was a journalist because i was carrying a decent Nikon.

Same rules as everywhere really. Be respectful, don't be a dick and you will be fine.

[phuketrichard]

to me ur being very irresponsible in regards to ur son. at the moment he is stateless.

As to traveling in Laos , been many times with my cameras and never had any one ask me anything and been all over the country.

Note my last trip was with my Thai/American daughter an we had a great trip , very friendly people and its an amazing country

[hgma]

Guy's

This is the law, and whatever someone want to interpet these laws is their business,

I just learned over a long period of time around these parts in the world that "The Law is my Sheperd"

So i try to stay within the framework of the law known to me.

As for Laos, ignorence can cost you (very) dearly.

Have a nice Sunday everybody.

[lovelaos]

1) Possibly if the Naibaan or local policeman sees it as a money spinner, depends on the Naibaan really.

2) Not at the friendship bridge but why risk it? Go through separately.

3) Yes

4) Get him a British Passport

Relax and enjoy your trip. It really isn't that bad here. Take a bottle of Johnny Walker round to the Naibaan and sit there with him and have a drink. I do this in every village I move to and believe me, it pays to do it. The Police cannot touch you without the permission of the Naibaan.

[maxtingtong]

no different than Cambodia where any westerner over 50 cannot marry a Cambodia Girl;

it wasn't an april fool?

[sfbandung]

My missus is Thai but ethnically Lao, like lots of Isaan people. We've been to Laos twice and they seem pretty relaxed about everything. Missus didn't even need a visa as she spoke Lao and she was welcomed as if she was Lao. It's a great place and the people are really nice.

So have fun but lovelaos and hgma have the best advice above IMHO.

[phuketrichard]

to me ur being very irresponsible in regards to ur son. at the moment he is stateless.

I agree 100% !!! I would go a bit further.... He (Puyai) seems to me not only acting irresponssible, he is a complete irresponssible, selfish and careless idiot, father and "husband". Did not care for anything, but now it must be a visit on Songkran. That's really "life planning". His penis seems to work, his brain does not.

What a massive over reaction. He hasn't abandoned his child or the lady and is poiltely asking advice.

You call yourself "Khun" Michael. How about some respect for a bloke just looking for a bit of help.

If he asked for help he should have done it abut how to get his son papers showing he is legal , not about how he can go on a vacation. To me he should have done research on how to legalize his son before he was born an done so way before this.

He only has a bc for his son an nothing else, he is not married to his gf and she has had a baby out of wedlock which according to Laos law is not a good thing to do

I call this acting irresponsible

its not the missus i am concerned about its his kid which is not a citizen of anywhere....

Edited February 18, 2013 by phuketrichard

[theoldgit]

Offensive remarks removed, please keep it civil.

[phuketrichard]

no different than Cambodia where any westerner over 50 cannot marry a Cambodia Girl;

it wasn't an april fool?

Its no joke and if ur under 50 u have to prove u have an income of over $2,500/month. Its in response to so many Koreans taking brides back to korea but affects everyone

[CWMcMurray]

It seems to me that would be easiest if you only register you child with the UK embassy and you GF never mentions to Laos Embassy/gov

Although not sure if she would be ok with that.. Mother instincts and all...

If so, then you just get the UK passport and no Laos Passport and then when you go to Laos, you and your child go together and your GF goes alone

Although as this will be your child's first time out of Thailand, Thai customs sometimes require letter from Mother to leave the country, but this is only selectively enforced and as the mother is not Thai, not sure if they would even care...

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Puyai]

to me ur being very irresponsible in regards to ur son. at the moment he is stateless.

I agree 100% !!! I would go a bit further.... He (Puyai) seems to me not only acting irresponssible, he is a complete irresponssible, selfish and careless idiot, father and "husband". Did not care for anything, but now it must be a visit on Songkran. That's really "life planning". His penis seems to work, his brain does not.

What a massive over reaction. He hasn't abandoned his child or the lady and is poiltely asking advice.

You call yourself "Khun" Michael. How about some respect for a bloke just looking for a bit of help.

If he asked for help he should have done it abut how to get his son papers showing he is legal , not about how he can go on a vacation. To me he should have done research on how to legalize his son before he was born an done so way before this.

He only has a bc for his son an nothing else, he is not married to his gf and she has had a baby out of wedlock which according to Laos law is not a good thing to do

I call this acting irresponsible

its not the missus i am concerned about its his kid which is not a citizen of anywhere....

Thank you for the kind words. I think there are a lot worse fathers that me in the world!! My son will be A British citizen within 2 months. Is it really such a big deal that it has taken me 6 months to get him a passport? My passport will expire this year. I had to wait for 9 months before the expiry to renew my passport. This passport I need to get to renew my visa before the end of march. Once my passport comes back I will apply for my sons.

Yes, I had a baby out of wedlock with a Lao girl and if I knew before what I know now I might have done things differently.

To say that I am a bad father is taking things too far. My son is the happiest boy you could meet. He's not to fussed about getting his passport which I might add I can get whenever I want to!

[Puyai]

Would like to thank everyone for their good information.

I will wait for his British passport and go to Laos!

[brewsterbudgen]

If your son gets a UK passport (but has no Lao passport and is not registered in Laos) will he need a visa to enter Laos?

[phuketrichard]

good for u, a child deserves the best that u can give them.

I never said u were a bad father, just irresponsible

Didn't think he would be fussed as he probably knows nothing about the situation ur in. :-)