Stupidity Of Thai Universities

[NeverSure]

Educators can be stupid. Sorry, but they aren't the brightest of the bunch or they would be doing brain surgery.

Einstein was kicked out of what we would call grade school because they classed him as "retarded." His mother knew better and home schooled him. Then he couldn't get into a good Uni so he took what he could get.

Then he began to write and publish his papers and got recognized. Then every uni wanted him. He wound up in the States teaching and studying. We all know the rest of the story.

Even then, he didn't wear socks because he couldn't remember to mate them and got tired of being laughed at for having mismatched socks.

People are often judged by the wrong standards, even in the West. I have a wonderful neighbor boy in the US who is so bright that he was allowed to go to uni at age 16. But, he stayed at home, and the uni classes were chosen to be acceptable to complete high school. He was studying chemistry, statistics and one other difficult science all in the same term at uni, and got high grades. This is the only such child I've ever heard of. He is also emotionally mature and has wonderful people skills, so this also made it possible. This Spring he graduates from high school with 2 years of uni also completed.

I hope your girl student finds a good path. I think she can if she doesn't give up.

[Chao Lao Beach]

There is only one answer ,no other . T I T .

And cash.

[Will2011]

In my opinion, Thai universities don't meet international standards regarding education and lecturers regardless how reputable the local university is. That doesn't mean that all Thai students are bad. But let's face it, many of them I know have a lower level compared to their western peers.

And for the record, I don't think a GPA of 3.5 is high. It is good though, but not high.

[yourauntbob]

Educators can be stupid. Sorry, but they aren't the brightest of the bunch or they would be doing brain surgery.

Einstein was kicked out of what we would call grade school because they classed him as "retarded." His mother knew better and home schooled him. Then he couldn't get into a good Uni so he took what he could get.

Then he began to write and publish his papers and got recognized. Then every uni wanted him. He wound up in the States teaching and studying. We all know the rest of the story.

Even then, he didn't wear socks because he couldn't remember to mate them and got tired of being laughed at for having mismatched socks.

People are often judged by the wrong standards, even in the West. I have a wonderful neighbor boy in the US who is so bright that he was allowed to go to uni at age 16. But, he stayed at home, and the uni classes were chosen to be acceptable to complete high school. He was studying chemistry, statistics and one other difficult science all in the same term at uni, and got high grades. This is the only such child I've ever heard of. He is also emotionally mature and has wonderful people skills, so this also made it possible. This Spring he graduates from high school with 2 years of uni also completed.

I hope your girl student finds a good path. I think she can if she doesn't give up.

thanks for your kind words.

[thenervoussurgeon]

There is only one answer ,no other . T I T .

And cash.

Thats what i said t.i.t

[GuestHouse]

Surely the school provides guidence to students on university application/admission - if not the OP might save energy ranting and spend it on putting a propsal ro the school to provide such guidence.

[TommoPhysicist]

Surely the school provides guidence to students on university application/admission - if not the OP might save energy ranting and spend it on putting a propsal ro the school to provide such guidence.

Just to point out.

The (government) schools in the UK have no idea about university applications either.

[FWIW]

Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most.

You seem to be going quite far on an "I guess". However, I would have thought it also possible she blew the interview?

One or two "wrong" answers could easily be enough if there are limited places.

[GuestHouse]

Just to point out.

The (government) schools in the UK have no idea about university applications either.

Just to piont out, from personal experience I can report an A level student I know very well who is currenty at a UK state school has received extremely good advice from the school on applying to one of the world's top universities.

Provisional place allocated subject to exam results.

Something a UK state school can do which it serms from the OP's reoprt a Thai international school has not yet got an idea about.

Edited February 19, 2013 by GuestHouse

[HeavyDrinker]

Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale, Chula, Thammasart, Mahidol...

They're all peas in a pod. Grooming grounds for the next generation of neophyte elitists to learn how to take up the reins and keep the wealth in that 4%.

I recall with great amusement now, when New Labour got to power in the UK, David Blunkett (I think it was) beating his chest and claiming he would end elitism at Oxbridge in the UK....

So how did that pan out Dave?

Sadly, elitism in Higher Education exists in almost every nation on Earth.

Ironically it is countries like India, China, Korea and Brazil - traditionally seen as hidebound conservatives and elitists - who have really made an effort to see the best students actually go to the best universities. A policy which is now being reflected in the Global Economy.

[jamhar]

I would imagine that the correct Surname will also be influential in who gets into certain Universities

yep, its always a combination of Grades, Exam Scores, Money, and Influence.

Some combination of the four will get you in any university in any country.

You just need to know the correct formula for the school you're interested in.

[Trembly]

Chula did her a favour.

There's a difference between being educated (to understand) and being trained (just enough to do your job).

I learnt about Quest University through a Canadian exchange student at my school where I teach. If I could have my time again I would definitely go there.

I don't think I can justify going to any other university in the world for my bachelor's degree unless I absolutely, positively had to specialize in my undergraduate studies for a professional discipline.

Quest students speak.

The president of Quest University speaks.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Trembly

[Stradavarius37]

Isn't admission to elite universities a function of their university admissions test score? It's similar to the SAT in the US, although in Thailand, I believe it's called the O-NET or A-NET. So how did your student score on the admissions test?

I'm no expert, but it appears your rant has no relation to reality. How do you know that students with GEDs are selected over those without? You don't.

I know that students with GED's are selected because I have had numerous drop outs from our school (my former students) some good, some bad, come back to visit in their University Uniform. Many were going to Chula, several others to Mahdol. So I do know, obviously you dont.

Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most.

Some of these other folks are more knowledgeable than I regarding GEDs and such (e.g., Garry, Bangna, et al), so I'll defer to them. But I don't think that you're being fair to all Thai universities in referring to them as "stupid" when you have no idea what the admissions policies of these schools are. But I get it: In Thailand, farangs will rant and rave about the Thais even though they don't have all the facts. Typical MO on these threads.

I may not know the admissions process through and through, but I have helped students prepare the paperwork necessary for four years. I have had to educate myself to a certain extent and am aware of the general process. All of the students have had to take my class, and many I have had for two years. Our school is not very big, and I get a good sense of a students ability from other teachers and have numerous conversations with many of the parents regarding each students academics.

That being said, it is amazing they accept the students they do. With the exception of two or three, many of the GED students struggled to pass or were average in the majority of their subjects. Some students that have come to me for recommendations in the past and I turned them down because I did not feel they were ready and had a snow balls chance of getting in anyway. I have been surprised a few times when they come to visit and tell me where they are attending school. Either the admissions exam is not very good at picking up aptitude/intelligence or it is simply a non factor.

I will say this though, I am speaking from a limited sample. We graduate only 80-100 students per year and the situation may be more than I am seeing. Its just that I need to shake my head at what I see.

And yet, despite your "limited sample" you felt the need to title the thread "Stupidity of Thai Universities" - nothing like a sweeping unsupported (in your OP) generalization to get a tread off on the wrong foot.

[SteeleJoe]

Ok, so I have a bit of a rant here and just need to get it off my chest.

I work at an international high school in bangkok and am amazed at the selection process of Thai Universities. Why do they allow students with GED's acceptance into the "best" Universtiies? Many of our students leave after the (or during) grade 10 and go right into Chula. In the west, a GED is generally laughted at but here in Thailand students get their GED and go right into Chula, Mahdol, etc. Normally I laugh at how oblivious these "Universities" are and how it shows they have no idea what they are doing but today is a whole different story.

I have a student who was an absolute dream to teach. She was in my class for two years in a row and she was a top performer both years. She is smart, has near native English, and extremely hard working. Recently she applied to Chula and asked me for a recommendation. I (along with a few other teachers) wrote her glowing recommendations to go along with her high GPA (above 3.5) and a long list of extra ciriculars. Today she came up to my in tears telling me she was not accepted. <deleted>???? How are they accepting GED's when they dont have enough room for students that finished high school? My blood is now boiliing at the retardedness of the Thai education system. A student who does everything right and works her a$$ off gets rejected while other students who are too lazy and drop out get in because of some misconception that a GED is something to be proud of.

thoughts?

"Retardedness"

Irony.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[PaullyW]

Same everywhere. In the States, "minorities" (who will be the majority in less than 20 years) with bad grades and a brain stem are given priority over the, uhm, paler folks with excellent grades.

But such stupid practices won't deter the truly smart kids from succeeding. Your girl has many options.

Mate what generation are you from? Don't answer. In fact, in recent times in the states the issue is that the Asian minorities are outperforming the Whites and everyone else and the Whites are consistently heard complaining and demanding investigation that the Asian students are cheating on intrance exams and the like despite multiple investigations into the matter disproving the allegations.

[Rumpole]

Surely the school provides guidence to students on university application/admission - if not the OP might save energy ranting and spend it on putting a propsal ro the school to provide such guidence.

Just to point out.

The (government) schools in the UK have no idea about university applications either.

And the Thais will more than likely just smile and totally ignore any proposal he puts forward. Just go and play the dancing white monkey, thank you farang, and don't bother us with your "ideas".

Edited February 19, 2013 by Rumpole

[KKvampire]

Chula is primarily made up of students of rich parents.The whole Thai upper education system is a natural progression from the high school system,nothing about attainment at all

[samran]

Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most.

You seem to be going quite far on an "I guess". However, I would have thought it also possible she blew the interview?

One or two "wrong" answers could easily be enough if there are limited places.

Indeed, places are limited extremely competitive. Yes, the rich get in. But they are also drilled academically for their entire high school career. Very often remember my cousins doing all sorts of afterschool and weekend tutoring, just so they'd stand a chance to get into Chula. Academically, they were sharp. Rich, but smart in the book sense.

[mogoso]

Same everywhere. In the States, "minorities" (who will be the majority in less than 20 years) with bad grades and a brain stem are given priority over the, uhm, paler folks with excellent grades.

But such stupid practices won't deter the truly smart kids from succeeding. Your girl has many options.

On the other hand, you had quite some idiot for president for a number of years. However, Yale, Harvard, and he was the only American president ever with an M.B.A.

We have Harvard Lawyer in office now. Simpleton can't even balance his personal checkbook, much less come up with a working budget for the country. Harvard graduates some butt clowns and foists them off on the American public.

[harrry]

Same everywhere. In the States, "minorities" (who will be the majority in less than 20 years) with bad grades and a brain stem are given priority over the, uhm, paler folks with excellent grades.

But such stupid practices won't deter the truly smart kids from succeeding. Your girl has many options.

On the other hand, you had quite some idiot for president for a number of years. However, Yale, Harvard, and he was the only American president ever with an M.B.A.

We have Harvard Lawyer in office now. Simpleton can't even balance his personal checkbook, much less come up with a working budget for the country. Harvard graduates some butt clowns and foists them off on the American public.

Harvard Lawyers do not balance books...if that is needed they employ Accountants to do so. Just as Civil Engineers should not try to fix their TV.

[GarryP]

Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most.

You seem to be going quite far on an "I guess". However, I would have thought it also possible she blew the interview?

One or two "wrong" answers could easily be enough if there are limited places.

Indeed, places are limited extremely competitive. Yes, the rich get in. But they are also drilled academically for their entire high school career. Very often remember my cousins doing all sorts of afterschool and weekend tutoring, just so they'd stand a chance to get into Chula. Academically, they were sharp. Rich, but smart in the book sense.

That is just the point that so many posters do not seem to understand. Yes, Chula and Thammasart are full of rich kids, but the vast majority, if not all of them, did not buy their way in. They often went to the top high schools, which incidentally are not always the most expensive, and (because they could afford it) went to tutorial/cramming schools, had private classes, etc. The kids really are bright as a result.

It is for these reasons that you see a disproportionate number of "rich" kids in the said unis. The average Thai cannot afford all these outside lessons so is it any wonder that only a few (proportionately) manage to get through. Also, as I mentioned before, a lot of the faculties allow for direct entrance and have their own entrance exams which are separate from O and A-Net. In fact some faculties even refuse to rely on the latter as the results do not necessarily provide the student body they are seeking. Exams tailored to the faculty tend to give a much better indication of whether any student would be suitable material. Check how many O and A-Net students drop out compared to those who enter directly. Again, the unfortunate point about this is that tutorial schools can tutor the students to pass the faculty exams and even prepare them for interviews, but the average student (background not intellectual ability) cannot afford to take these specialized private courses.

[Trembly]

Having good drills doesn't necessarily equate to brightness, in my opinion.

Any one can cram / drill.

[SteeleJoe]

Having good drills doesn't necessarily equate to brightness, in my opinion.

Any one can cram / drill.

Oh, man don't I agree with THAT. Indeed, I could write thousands of words about how that is demonstrated all around us and how the failure to appreciate it manifests itself in so many ways we are unhappy with here in Thailand...oh, wait - I already HAVE (for too long, too many times, and for no expected gain...)

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Edited February 20, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Neeranam]

I would imagine that the correct Surname will also be influential in who gets into certain Universities

This is true in many countries. America for example - when applying for university you are asked if any relatives have graduated from that uni. George Bush junior went to one of the best unis and I'm sure he didn't pass the entrance.

[TommoPhysicist]

Just to point out.

The (government) schools in the UK have no idea about university applications either.

Just to piont out, from personal experience I can report an A level student I know very well who is currenty at a UK state school has received extremely good advice from the school on applying to one of the world's top universities.

Provisional place allocated subject to exam results.

Something a UK state school can do which it serms from the OP's reoprt a Thai international school has not yet got an idea about.

You don't know anything about allocation of places at UK universities either.

Hint

You need to ask the admission officer at the University how they allocate places, not someone in a state school.

Edited February 20, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[GuestHouse]

University places in the UK are allocated according to predicted A level grades (personal opinion of teachers who can be bribed). Actual grades not really important. But the state schools don't understand this and predict low, the private schools do understand this and predict high.

More unfounded hogwash from TP- "teachers who can be bribed" - why not skip the middleman and bribe the university?!

FYI - predicted A levels are only one criteria, personal interview, review of submitted work, opinions and references from non school sources are others.

Opinions off Thailand bar stools are, I suspect, seldom given any weight.

[GuestHouse]

You don't know anything about allocation of places at UK universities either.

And yet more unfounded hogwash.

This lack of knowledge seems not to have prevented me getting into universities in the past ( though you've got me worrying about the application I submitted last week).

[TommoPhysicist]

You don't know anything about allocation of places at UK universities either.

And yet more unfounded hogwash.

This lack of knowledge seems not to have prevented me getting into universities in the past ( though you've got me worrying about the application I submitted last week).

The first thing any parent should do is phone up the Admissions officer at the Universities of choice and ask them what they want. What subjects, what hobbies, what extras. They are human beings largely ignored by the outside world and are usually only too happy to tell you and to help you out, they will also remember you as an interested and supportive parent. Best to ask before your child enters 6th form, then again as they complete the applications forms (so they remember your interest). When the application form is completed (online I believe now), you should read the hard copy before submission and ensure the information you submit matches the Admission Officer requirements as closely as possible. Teachers predicted grades are vitally important and can be easily changed (up) by the judicial application of parental pressure. Finally you should accompany your child on the University visits to discover through careful questioning if the University in question is running a sales campaign (under-subscribed) or a weeding out process (over-subscribed). Seeking out the Admissions officer and thanking them for their help previously, doesn't go unnoticed. Most Universities have already made their choices before the interview stage.

Of course this is far too much trouble for most parents.

It is also only important for places that are contested.

Edited February 20, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[Berkshire]

I would imagine that the correct Surname will also be influential in who gets into certain Universities

This is true in many countries. America for example - when applying for university you are asked if any relatives have graduated from that uni. George Bush junior went to one of the best unis and I'm sure he didn't pass the entrance.

This is true in the USA and it's called "legacy." It's quite common at nearly all Ivy League universities.

[TommoPhysicist]

More unfounded hogwash from TP- "teachers who can be bribed" - why not skip the middleman and bribe the university?!

Universities which have hotly contested places, normally offer interviews on predicted grades judged by computers.

But yes, offering them a new library wing will get your child a place (if at more expense than you may wish to pay).

Admissions often don't almost never read any personal statements, too time consuming and unproductive.

If you don't have the right predicted grade, you won't be offered an interview.

Edited February 20, 2013 by TommoPhysicist