Stupidity Of Thai Universities

[yourauntbob]

Ok, so I have a bit of a rant here and just need to get it off my chest.

I work at an international high school in bangkok and am amazed at the selection process of Thai Universities. Why do they allow students with GED's acceptance into the "best" Universtiies? Many of our students leave after the (or during) grade 10 and go right into Chula. In the west, a GED is generally laughted at but here in Thailand students get their GED and go right into Chula, Mahdol, etc. Normally I laugh at how oblivious these "Universities" are and how it shows they have no idea what they are doing but today is a whole different story.

I have a student who was an absolute dream to teach. She was in my class for two years in a row and she was a top performer both years. She is smart, has near native English, and extremely hard working. Recently she applied to Chula and asked me for a recommendation. I (along with a few other teachers) wrote her glowing recommendations to go along with her high GPA (above 3.5) and a long list of extra ciriculars. Today she came up to my in tears telling me she was not accepted. <deleted>???? How are they accepting GED's when they dont have enough room for students that finished high school? My blood is now boiliing at the retardedness of the Thai education system. A student who does everything right and works her a$$ off gets rejected while other students who are too lazy and drop out get in because of some misconception that a GED is something to be proud of.

thoughts?

[davejonesbkk]

cant help but wonder if these kids that got in easy had parents with connections, all it needs is for them to have a recognized surname and it opens all kinds of doors....

[thenervoussurgeon]

There is only one answer ,no other . T I T .

[Berkshire]

Isn't admission to elite universities a function of their university admissions test score? It's similar to the SAT in the US, although in Thailand, I believe it's called the O-NET or A-NET. So how did your student score on the admissions test?

I'm no expert, but it appears your rant has no relation to reality. How do you know that students with GEDs are selected over those without? You don't.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Berkshire

[mrtoad]

I would imagine that the correct Surname will also be influential in who gets into certain Universities

[diddums]

whats a ged ?

[Thaddeus]

Money.

[Payboy]

whats a ged ?

Got Enough Dosh.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Payboy

[yourauntbob]

Isn't admission to elite universities a function of their university admissions test score? It's similar to the SAT in the US, although in Thailand, I believe it's called the O-NET or A-NET. So how did your student score on the admissions test?

I'm no expert, but it appears your rant has no relation to reality. How do you know that students with GEDs are selected over those without? You don't.

I know that students with GED's are selected because I have had numerous drop outs from our school (my former students) some good, some bad, come back to visit in their University Uniform. Many were going to Chula, several others to Mahdol. So I do know, obviously you dont.

Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most.

Edited February 18, 2013 by yourauntbob

[rijb]

Money.

It's always about money.

[HeijoshinCool]

Same everywhere. In the States, "minorities" (who will be the majority in less than 20 years) with bad grades and a brain stem are given priority over the, uhm, paler folks with excellent grades.

But such stupid practices won't deter the truly smart kids from succeeding. Your girl has many options.

[BangnaBound]

I think you are talking about being able to challenge the university exams and skip grades 11 and 12. This isn’t really the same as dropping out of High School and getting a GED. It is less common now, but when 15 years ago, most top students would skip grade 12, and the very smart students would skip 2 years of high school. If you couldn’t get into University before grade 12, you would not be considered an elite student. I’ve heard it is more discouraged these days. I was always jealous of this policy. I would have loved to skip a grade back home and graduate university a few years early.

You are thinking about GED’s in an American context. Here if you are smart enough at a young age in Thailand, you can challenge the University and High school exams and skip a few years of high school. The kids getting into Chula after grade 10 are the real elite students, so don’t compare them to a drop out with a GED.

[yourauntbob]

Same everywhere. In the States, "minorities" (who will be the majority in less than 20 years) with bad grades and a brain stem are given priority over the, uhm, paler folks with excellent grades.

But such stupid practices won't deter the truly smart kids from succeeding. Your girl has many options.

Yea, I know she will be fine and probably do better off in life for it. Just sucks to see such a good student get passed over when I have other students (some of whom I wouldn't even write a recommendation for) get in.

[yourauntbob]

I think you are talking about being able to challenge the university exams and skip grades 11 and 12. This isn’t really the same as dropping out of High School and getting a GED. It is less common now, but when 15 years ago, most top students would skip grade 12, and the very smart students would skip 2 years of high school. If you couldn’t get into University before grade 12, you would not be considered an elite student. I’ve heard it is more discouraged these days. I was always jealous of this policy. I would have loved to skip a grade back home and graduate university a few years early.

You are thinking about GED’s in an American context. Here if you are smart enough at a young age in Thailand, you can challenge the University and High school exams and skip a few years of high school. The kids getting into Chula after grade 10 are the real elite students, so don’t compare them to a drop out with a GED.

No, point blank they are getting their GED's and going to these schools. I hope I am not being redundant but I know these kids really well. Many from our school drop out and get their GED's and gain acceptance. They have told me straight up what their doing, some come back and ask for recommendations (bringing in the Chula recommendation form). This year alone I have had 10 out of my 90+ students drop out for GED's. These are grade 10 students with average intelligence.

[HeijoshinCool]

Same everywhere. In the States, "minorities" (who will be the majority in less than 20 years) with bad grades and a brain stem are given priority over the, uhm, paler folks with excellent grades.

But such stupid practices won't deter the truly smart kids from succeeding. Your girl has many options.

Yea, I know she will be fine and probably do better off in life for it. Just sucks to see such a good student get passed over when I have other students (some of whom I wouldn't even write a recommendation for) get in.

And that's what you need to pass along to her. It's an opportunity to achieve something better, not a defeat. I'm glad I didn't make it into Stanford. My life turned out much better for it.

Cool.

[GarryP]

Isn't admission to elite universities a function of their university admissions test score? It's similar to the SAT in the US, although in Thailand, I believe it's called the O-NET or A-NET. So how did your student score on the admissions test?

I'm no expert, but it appears your rant has no relation to reality. How do you know that students with GEDs are selected over those without? You don't.

A lot of admissions to the "top" universities are direct admissions, some requiring only a high GPA and an interview and others also require sitting faculty designed exams. The O-NET and A-NET lot are picking up the remaining places.

As one poster has mentioned, it is possible to pass a high school equivalency exam and graduate high school early. Kids would go to the local "institute for education outside the system" (Kor Sor Nor). This used to be very common, with students entering uni at 16 years of age. That you were able to graduate early seemed to be taken as an indication that you were especially clever. It is now frowned upon, but for different reasons.

[harrry]

In Australia and I believe the UK there have been several students admitted to top universities at the age of 12. They are seriously intelligent students though with genius level IQs. The USA hasa thiss example. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/03/sho-yano-university-of-chicago-md_n_1566618.html

[Berkshire]

Isn't admission to elite universities a function of their university admissions test score? It's similar to the SAT in the US, although in Thailand, I believe it's called the O-NET or A-NET. So how did your student score on the admissions test?

I'm no expert, but it appears your rant has no relation to reality. How do you know that students with GEDs are selected over those without? You don't.

I know that students with GED's are selected because I have had numerous drop outs from our school (my former students) some good, some bad, come back to visit in their University Uniform. Many were going to Chula, several others to Mahdol. So I do know, obviously you dont.

Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most.

Some of these other folks are more knowledgeable than I regarding GEDs and such (e.g., Garry, Bangna, et al), so I'll defer to them. But I don't think that you're being fair to all Thai universities in referring to them as "stupid" when you have no idea what the admissions policies of these schools are. But I get it: In Thailand, farangs will rant and rave about the Thais even though they don't have all the facts. Typical MO on these threads.

[TerryLH]

"Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most."

A lot depends on what faculty they are trying to get into.

Without that information, hard to judge.

Medicine = difficult. Business = easy.

Terry

[Stradavarius37]

Isn't admission to elite universities a function of their university admissions test score? It's similar to the SAT in the US, although in Thailand, I believe it's called the O-NET or A-NET. So how did your student score on the admissions test?

I'm no expert, but it appears your rant has no relation to reality. How do you know that students with GEDs are selected over those without? You don't.

I know that students with GED's are selected because I have had numerous drop outs from our school (my former students) some good, some bad, come back to visit in their University Uniform. Many were going to Chula, several others to Mahdol. So I do know, obviously you dont.

Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most.

Some of these other folks are more knowledgeable than I regarding GEDs and such (e.g., Garry, Bangna, et al), so I'll defer to them. But I don't think that you're being fair to all Thai universities in referring to them as "stupid" when you have no idea what the admissions policies of these schools are. But I get it: In Thailand, farangs will rant and rave about the Thais even though they don't have all the facts. Typical MO on these threads.

+1

[Potosi]

Same everywhere. In the States, "minorities" (who will be the majority in less than 20 years) with bad grades and a brain stem are given priority over the, uhm, paler folks with excellent grades.

But such stupid practices won't deter the truly smart kids from succeeding. Your girl has many options.

On the other hand, you had quite some idiot for president for a number of years. However, Yale, Harvard, and he was the only American president ever with an M.B.A.

[geriatrickid]

Have you stopped to consider that the university did your student a big favour? I was one of those students that skipped a year and went to uni. I had decent grades, nothing stellar, but was a "smart" boy. However, I was not emotionally prepared nor educated in the ways of the world to go and live in a university dorm with the big boys and it showed in my performance. Biggest mistake I ever made was trying to rush it. I ended up stressed out, miserable and with a horrible GPA. I had to add a year on at graduate school to redeem myself and was lost for some time not knowing what to do. Some students are much better off taking the slow train than the express route. I frequently recommend to prospective students to follow the UK example of a gap year and to break up studies between undergrad and grad school.

[h90]

Money.....

[yourauntbob]

"Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most."

A lot depends on what faculty they are trying to get into.

Without that information, hard to judge.

Medicine = difficult. Business = easy.

Terry

Economics

[yourauntbob]

Have you stopped to consider that the university did your student a big favour? I was one of those students that skipped a year and went to uni. I had decent grades, nothing stellar, but was a "smart" boy. However, I was not emotionally prepared nor educated in the ways of the world to go and live in a university dorm with the big boys and it showed in my performance. Biggest mistake I ever made was trying to rush it. I ended up stressed out, miserable and with a horrible GPA. I had to add a year on at graduate school to redeem myself and was lost for some time not knowing what to do. Some students are much better off taking the slow train than the express route. I frequently recommend to prospective students to follow the UK example of a gap year and to break up studies between undergrad and grad school.

Good point, although this is one student I believe is ready for university. Strong head on her shoulders, elected for some of the more difficult classes outside her major (our HS has majors) and is very emotionally stable.

[ihunnieibee]

I'm just curious but were these students registered in the Thai program or International programs?

According to some friends I know it is very easy for kids to get accepted to the International programs but not the same as the Thai programs as they have to do really well to pass and more competition.

Maybe the ones with the GED got accepted to International College and not specifically the Thai University

[yourauntbob]

Isn't admission to elite universities a function of their university admissions test score? It's similar to the SAT in the US, although in Thailand, I believe it's called the O-NET or A-NET. So how did your student score on the admissions test?

I'm no expert, but it appears your rant has no relation to reality. How do you know that students with GEDs are selected over those without? You don't.

I know that students with GED's are selected because I have had numerous drop outs from our school (my former students) some good, some bad, come back to visit in their University Uniform. Many were going to Chula, several others to Mahdol. So I do know, obviously you dont.

Also, her entrance scores where good enough to warrant an interview. I dont know the exact numbers, but I would guess she did much better than most.

Some of these other folks are more knowledgeable than I regarding GEDs and such (e.g., Garry, Bangna, et al), so I'll defer to them. But I don't think that you're being fair to all Thai universities in referring to them as "stupid" when you have no idea what the admissions policies of these schools are. But I get it: In Thailand, farangs will rant and rave about the Thais even though they don't have all the facts. Typical MO on these threads.

I may not know the admissions process through and through, but I have helped students prepare the paperwork necessary for four years. I have had to educate myself to a certain extent and am aware of the general process. All of the students have had to take my class, and many I have had for two years. Our school is not very big, and I get a good sense of a students ability from other teachers and have numerous conversations with many of the parents regarding each students academics.

That being said, it is amazing they accept the students they do. With the exception of two or three, many of the GED students struggled to pass or were average in the majority of their subjects. Some students that have come to me for recommendations in the past and I turned them down because I did not feel they were ready and had a snow balls chance of getting in anyway. I have been surprised a few times when they come to visit and tell me where they are attending school. Either the admissions exam is not very good at picking up aptitude/intelligence or it is simply a non factor.

I will say this though, I am speaking from a limited sample. We graduate only 80-100 students per year and the situation may be more than I am seeing. Its just that I need to shake my head at what I see.

Edited February 18, 2013 by yourauntbob

[yourauntbob]

I'm just curious but were these students registered in the Thai program or International programs?

According to some friends I know it is very easy for kids to get accepted to the International programs but not the same as the Thai programs as they have to do really well to pass and more competition.

Maybe the ones with the GED got accepted to International College and not specifically the Thai University

Good point, this is something I am not sure of. I will try to take note in the future. Thanks for that insight.

[TommoPhysicist]

If you pay a bribe you will get in.

The only discussion is how big the bribe.

Really not hard to understand.

[culicine]

In Australia and I believe the UK there have been several students admitted to top universities at the age of 12. They are seriously intelligent students though with genius level IQs. The USA hasa thiss example. http://www.huffingto..._n_1566618.html

We have geniuses here too, but sure as heck they ain't doing GED's.