Thaksin Accused Of Spending Bt300 Million To Organise Friday Rally

[Heng]

Shall I mention Thailand being governed, owned, leached by ethnic chinese?

If it weren't for the ethnic Chinese, who the heck would foreigners pay visa fees to?

There might not even be a ThaiVisa website. Almost time for another trip to beautiful Penang? Nothing like Penang this time..... ehm, I mean 4 times a year.

[ColPyat]

And will you also share with us how much Thaksin's opposition was paying for their Proteters? Oh yes they did pay too!

Well, in my area of town no motorcycle taxi drivers were paid anything to attend the Sondhi/Chamlong ralles. But then, not many of 'em attended. It is mostly middle class crowds there.

Most Thais i know who are Thaksin opponents don't particularly like Sondhi or Chamlong either.

[rcm]

And will you also share with us how much Thaksin's opposition was paying for their Proteters? Oh yes they did pay too!

Well, in my area of town no motorcycle taxi drivers were paid anything to attend the Sondhi/Chamlong ralles. But then, not many of 'em attended. It is mostly middle class crowds there.

Most Thais i know who are Thaksin opponents don't particularly like Sondhi or Chamlong either.

Yes, where i live(Nakhon Sawan) it is the same ...Sondhi or Chamlong aren't the second option. Looks like the King will have the last word on this .

[ColPyat]

Yes, where i live(Nakhon Sawan) it is the same ...Sondhi or Chamlong aren't the second option. Looks like the King will have the last word on this .

Dunno, if one disregards the reports by the Nation based more on desperate wishful thinking than on fact, i believe that Thaksin will have the last word in this matter, unfortunately. I don't know the south, but here in Bangers many Democrat supporters i know are not exactly happy about that election boycott, depriving them of the possibility to vote for anyone who represents their feelings.

Well, unless the Alliance does manage somehow to provoce excessive violence from the government, i fear that the trumps are all in Thaksin's hand. And he plays them very well. His speach at Sanam Luang was masterful - reasonable, humble.

The way things are going, i believe that there is no case of the King coming out and taking sides, especially not for Sondhi and Chamlong.

[otherstuff1957]

A Thai friend told me that his neighbors were being paid 500baht a head to attend the pro- Thaksin rally.

Edited for spelling.

Edited March 5, 2006 by otherstuff1957

[womble]

Last night I had a facinating discussion with a Thai friend, he has been to university and comes from Bangkok, in the last election voted TRT. I asked him what he thought about the protests and Thaksin and he said he wanted Thaksin to stay he told me he was good for Thailand.

We talked about corruption and he said this was normal and expected from anyone in high office, he said what would be the point in getting to such a high position if you couldn't benefit financially from it. I asked him what he thought about making policys to benefit his business and he concluded this was normal and to be expected.

He said the chance of having a government in Thailand that didn't abuse it's power to enrich itself was close to zero and he told me that the very large majority of Thai people have no problem with this.

Before he wanted Thaksin to stay, but now he says he must go to ensure there is no violence, but for him the main reason he wants him to leave is so His Majesty the king doesn't have intervene and he says more and more Thai people want Thaksin to step down. Not because they have a problem with the corruption or anything else, but because they are scared if he stays there will be violence and the King will have to intervene.

He says many Thais are more outraged that Shin was sold to foriegners than the non payment of taxes and he said anti foriegn sentiment was definatley rising in Thai society as a result of the sale.

He thinks the next government may take strict measures against foriegn ownership as it will be a sure vote winner, it all depends on whether their own business interests benefit or not from involvement from foriegners.

His assesement is that expats will almost certainly be better off under Thaksin than whoever may take over as from the sale of Shin any leader that wants to be popular will take an anti foriegn policy unless it affects their own business interests.

Whilst this is one mans view it makes a lot of sense, so whilst many dislike Thaksin for his authoritarian stance, the other options will most likely be far worse. Bars may well open later and Bangkok will again be a great party city, but on many other fronts foriegners will not be so lucky.

Edited March 5, 2006 by womble

[Butterfly]

That's what I have been saying all along. Without Taxin, it could be much worse for us.

[mittheimp]

Last night I had a facinating discussion with a Thai friend, he has been to university and comes from Bangkok, in the last election voted TRT. I asked him what he thought about the protests and Thaksin and he said he wanted Thaksin to stay he told me he was good for Thailand.

We talked about corruption and he said this was normal and expected from anyone in high office, he said what would be the point in getting to such a high position if you couldn't benefit financially from it. I asked him what he thought about making policys to benefit his business and he concluded this was normal and to be expected.

He said the chance of having a government in Thailand that didn't abuse it's power to enrich itself was close to zero and he told me that the very large majority of Thai people have no problem with this.

Before he wanted Thaksin to stay, but now he says he must go to ensure there is no violence, but for him the main reason he wants him to leave is so His Majesty the king doesn't have intervene and he says more and more Thai people want Thaksin to step down. Not because they have a problem with the corruption or anything else, but because they are scared if he stays there will be violence and the King will have to intervene.

He says many Thais are more outraged that Shin was sold to foriegners than the non payment of taxes and he said anti foriegn sentiment was definatley rising in Thai society as a result of the sale.

He thinks the next government may take strict measures against foriegn ownership as it will be a sure vote winner, it all depends on whether their own business interests benefit or not from involvement from foriegners.

His assesement is that expats will almost certainly be better off under Thaksin than whoever may take over as from the sale of Shin any leader that wants to be popular will take an anti foriegn policy unless it affects their own business interests.

Whilst this is one mans view it makes a lot of sense, so whilst many dislike Thaksin for his authoritarian stance, the other options will most likely be far worse. Bars may well open later and Bangkok will again be a great party city, but on many other fronts foriegners will not be so lucky.

A bit fickle your friend then?

[Ricardo]

That's what I have been saying all along. Without Taxin, it could be much worse for us.

I understand your point-of-view, and agree that the uncertainty might be unsettling, but surely what matters is what's best for Thailand ?

This gradual slide away from a shakey democracy, with increasing control of the media, and politicisation of the institutions of government, can't go on. The cult of personality has been tried elsewhere many times - and is generally not for the common good.

[francois]

Last night I had a facinating discussion with a Thai friend, he has been to university and comes from Bangkok, in the last election voted TRT. I asked him what he thought about the protests and Thaksin and he said he wanted Thaksin to stay he told me he was good for Thailand.

We talked about corruption and he said this was normal and expected from anyone in high office, he said what would be the point in getting to such a high position if you couldn't benefit financially from it. I asked him what he thought about making policys to benefit his business and he concluded this was normal and to be expected.

He said the chance of having a government in Thailand that didn't abuse it's power to enrich itself was close to zero and he told me that the very large majority of Thai people have no problem with this.

Before he wanted Thaksin to stay, but now he says he must go to ensure there is no violence, but for him the main reason he wants him to leave is so His Majesty the king doesn't have intervene and he says more and more Thai people want Thaksin to step down. Not because they have a problem with the corruption or anything else, but because they are scared if he stays there will be violence and the King will have to intervene.

He says many Thais are more outraged that Shin was sold to foriegners than the non payment of taxes and he said anti foriegn sentiment was definatley rising in Thai society as a result of the sale.

He thinks the next government may take strict measures against foriegn ownership as it will be a sure vote winner, it all depends on whether their own business interests benefit or not from involvement from foriegners.

His assesement is that expats will almost certainly be better off under Thaksin than whoever may take over as from the sale of Shin any leader that wants to be popular will take an anti foriegn policy unless it affects their own business interests.

Whilst this is one mans view it makes a lot of sense, so whilst many dislike Thaksin for his authoritarian stance, the other options will most likely be far worse. Bars may well open later and Bangkok will again be a great party city, but on many other fronts foriegners will not be so lucky.

hi'

it's a Thai way to see things, might be a bit pro toxin, but it should be part of our way of thinking about all this fuzz

HM the King first, then the country, and last the pm ... who should be closer to the people ...

francois

[englishoak]

Just because the opposition is not considered a great option it should not alter the fact that a bad leader should continue.

It is better to take a stance and stick with it. Someone will come along in the future who is better than the present options. By choosing the path of better the devil you know you are still condoning the corrupt style of rule...... It will only encourage the same to follow.

As for the farang being better off under mr T? so what ! it's about Thailand not about the farang.

[Bryan in Isaan]

My wife's family is from Phayao and Chiang Rai. They are not dirt farmers and they are not uneducated, other than Ma, they all have degrees. Of the 6 family members 5 like what Thaksin has done for the country even though they think he's a crook, they will vote for him for free. I'm sure if TRT offered them a few baht they'd take it, they know how the system works.

My wife on the other hand was educated away from the family in an urban environment and has totally different views. Although you could not bribe her to vote for TRT, she would probably take the money and run to the gold shop.

You really can't blame someone that makes 5000Bt a month and supports a family to jump at the chance to have a weekend in the big city on someone else and come home with a few bucks in their pocket, it's only human nature.

It would not surprise me in the least to see the same people at rallies for opposite groups. This should be a big tax free month for a lot of people in Thailand and maybe spreading some of wealth around to the poor is really not all that bad.

Good responses everyone. I don't KNOW that some of the attendees of Thaksin's rally were not paid. There are eyewitness testamonies all over the forum about how someone's brother-in-laws/neighbors/etc.. were getting paid XXX number of baht by either Thaksin or the opposition for attending rallies over the past few weeks. I still doubt that 300M was paid out for the Friday rally though.

Good point Lukamar. People here in the villages do take advantage of these opportunities. These rides to Bangkok do require money and organizing effort. The typical villager is not just going to pack his sticky rice basket in his yam, round trip bus fare (about 800B from here), money for food and lodging, showers, laundry, etc. Many people up here didn't even have spare money to go to town, buy a postcard and a stamp for the postcard mailing. Having said that, support for Thaksin is strong here, paid trips to BKK or not.

Another point. People are implying that voters here in the villages are all for sale. See the previous paragraphs - they DO take the money. The main monetary benefits here are the programs. Now we have the million baht village funds, 30B medical care etc. I have no problem with that. In any country, the government distributes money among the constituents. In Bangkok you have billions of baht going to Skytrains, subways, tax breaks/deals for businesses, etc. Now we have a few billion baht going to the farmers in the villages. Some of that village money is going to waste through corruption or whiskey money, as it always has in BKK, but much of it really does go to improve lives through farm subsidies, new farm equipment, fertilizer, land loans, starting businesses, etc. Things have gotten much better over the past five years for the villagers. I have to give some credit to Thaksin and the TRT for that. I don't blame them for wanting to vote for Thaksin.

Bryan

Edited March 5, 2006 by Bryan in Isaan

[marquess]

That's what I have been saying all along. Without Taxin, it could be much worse for us.

Yeah I suppose they might close down all the bars and expel us! Our loss but theirs too, a country like Thailand needs foreign expertise, if it is going to make the transition from third world to whatever else.

[sriracha john]

My wife's family is from Phayao and Chiang Rai. They are not dirt farmers and they are not uneducated, other than Ma, they all have degrees. Of the 6 family members 5 like what Thaksin has done for the country even though they think he's a crook, they will vote for him for free. I'm sure if TRT offered them a few baht they'd take it, they know how the system works.

My wife on the other hand was educated away from the family in an urban environment and has totally different views. Although you could not bribe her to vote for TRT, she would probably take the money and run to the gold shop.

You really can't blame someone that makes 5000Bt a month and supports a family to jump at the chance to have a weekend in the big city on someone else and come home with a few bucks in their pocket, it's only human nature.

It would not surprise me in the least to see the same people at rallies for opposite groups. This should be a big tax free month for a lot of people in Thailand and maybe spreading some of wealth around to the poor is really not all that bad.

Good responses everyone. I don't KNOW that some of the attendees of Thaksin's rally were not paid. There are eyewitness testamonies all over the forum about how someone's brother-in-laws/neighbors/etc.. were getting paid XXX number of baht by either Thaksin or the opposition for attending rallies over the past few weeks. I still doubt that 300M was paid out for the Friday rally though.

Good point Lukamar. People here in the villages do take advantage of these opportunities. These rides to Bangkok do require money and organizing effort. The typical villager is not just going to pack his sticky rice basket in his yam, round trip bus fare (about 800B from here), money for food and lodging, showers, laundry, etc. Many people up here didn't even have spare money to go to town, buy a postcard and a stamp for the postcard mailing. Having said that, support for Thaksin is strong here, paid trips to BKK or not.

Another point. People are implying that voters here in the villages are all for sale. See the previous paragraphs - they DO take the money. The main monetary benefits here are the programs. Now we have the million baht village funds, 30B medical care etc. I have no problem with that. In any country, the government distributes money among the constituents. In Bangkok you have billions of baht going to Skytrains, subways, tax breaks/deals for businesses, etc. Now we have a few billion baht going to the farmers in the villages. Some of that village money is going to waste through corruption or whiskey money, as it always has in BKK, but much of it really does go to improve lives through farm subsidies, new farm equipment, fertilizer, land loans, starting businesses, etc. Things have gotten much better over the past five years for the villagers. I have to give some credit to Thaksin and the TRT for that. I don't blame them for wanting to vote for Thaksin.

Bryan

Makes we wonder why 43,000 NE farmers have defaulted on their government loans and are unable to repay them???

How many million baht village funds are continuing to generate and circulate money they way they were "designed" to and how many went tits up within just a few months of wasteful squandering???

How many atrocities have occured within the 30 baht healthcare scam? How many doctors and hospitals have withdrawn from participating in the program altogether???

I seriously doubt that if Thaksin's free-ride cash flow stopped to the NE, that his support base there would not also dry up and wither like a solitary rice stalk in the worst Kalasin drought to become nothing more than dust in the wind.

===========================================================

Yes, where i live(Nakhon Sawan) it is the same ...Sondhi or Chamlong aren't the second option. Looks like the King will have the last word on this .

Dunno, if one disregards the reports by the Nation based more on desperate wishful thinking than on fact, i believe that Thaksin will have the last word in this matter, unfortunately. I don't know the south, but here in Bangers many Democrat supporters i know are not exactly happy about that election boycott, depriving them of the possibility to vote for anyone who represents their feelings.

Well, unless the Alliance does manage somehow to provoce excessive violence from the government, i fear that the trumps are all in Thaksin's hand. And he plays them very well. His speach at Sanam Luang was masterful - reasonable, humble.

The way things are going, i believe that there is no case of the King coming out and taking sides, especially not for Sondhi and Chamlong.

The Bangkokians, and all of Thailand, do have an option to vote for "no candidate" for the election.

Thaksin has promised (and we all know he fulfills all his promises) to resign if 50% of the ballots are either for opposition candidates or "no candidates" are so marked.

The whole election is moot however if no candidates are registered in the Southern constituencies (as of this evening, there were many with none). If there are no registered candidates and thus no MP's from these areas, Parliment can not convene.

p.s. Wednesday is the deadline to register, I believe.

p.s.s. Wednesday, it is:

Today a nationwide registration period will initiate for constituency candidates, who will be able to register between the time of 8.30 am and 4.30 pm at provincial city halls up until March 8th.

Edited March 5, 2006 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

That's what I have been saying all along. Without Taxin, it could be much worse for us.

Yeah I suppose they might close down all the bars and expel us! Our loss but theirs too, a country like Thailand needs foreign expertise, if it is going to make the transition from third world to whatever else.

They could do that marquess, but it is more likely that whoever forms the government may make it impossible for foreigners to get visas for 20 back to back 30's and after you have 2 or 3 then bye bye for a set period of time, or some other stuff to make it hard for the foreign community.

I stated before that the government is monitoring forums like this especially at the moment. If they feel that foreigner criticism has caused them a problem they may clamp down harder in the future. Even if the government changes hands the same may be true. I can tell you that on our website as soon as I put an announcement of the Thai election, we have had daily multiple spiders from Thai government sites that have never spidered our site in the past. I'm sure Thai Visa and other sites are drawing the same interest and information collection.

[marquess]

That's what I have been saying all along. Without Taxin, it could be much worse for us.

Yeah I suppose they might close down all the bars and expel us! Our loss but theirs too, a country like Thailand needs foreign expertise, if it is going to make the transition from third world to whatever else.

They could do that marquess, but it is more likely that whoever forms the government may make it impossible for foreigners to get visas for 20 back to back 30's and after you have 2 or 3 then bye bye for a set period of time, or some other stuff to make it hard for the foreign community.

I stated before that the government is monitoring forums like this especially at the moment. If they feel that foreigner criticism has caused them a problem they may clamp down harder in the future. Even if the government changes hands the same may be true. I can tell you that on our website as soon as I put an announcement of the Thai election, we have had daily multiple spiders from Thai government sites that have never spidered our site in the past. I'm sure Thai Visa and other sites are drawing the same interest and information collection.

They could well do that, the current situation has not been exacerbated by foreigners, but by the gov's heavy handed clamp down on the media . To such an extent that even the net is being heavily censored these days, helping to foster a climate of self censorship. I can't see things getting better for foreigners, under any gov, offcial policy is just innately to xenaphobic for that. We just have to keep our fingers crossed, and hope that square head goes peacefully. I suppose they will blame the BBC next!

[lukamar]

offcial policy is just innately to xenaphobic for that. [/color][/size][/font][/i]

It's been that way since King Mongkut (Rama IV) established diplomatic relations between Siam and European nations, to avoid colonization.

[sriracha john]

Too much "democracy"

A Thai Rak Thai supporter, still holding a national flag, lies on an open ground in front of the Nimitbutr stadium after the registration of election candidates in Bangkok constituencies yesterday.

-----------------------------------------------------

not too difficult to figure out what he spent his TRT "allowance" on....

[Ricardo]

That's what I have been saying all along. Without Taxin, it could be much worse for us.

I've heard the view expressed before, that Thaksin is the 'foreigners' friend', but am scratching my head as to what evidence there might be, to support this view.

Surely the barriers to long-term foreign residence were raised, a couple of years ago, under Thaksin ? The Thailand-Elite card, as an aid to foreigners, was so useless that it flopped ? The FTA agreements may have helped foreign-trade, but have surely hit the Thai farmers, certainly here in the North they don't understand why their onions & garlic no-longer command a living price ?

hi'

it's a Thai way to see things, might be a bit pro toxin, but it should be part of our way of thinking about all this fuzz

HM the King first, then the country, and last the pm ... who should be closer to the people ...

francois

Agree very much on your priorities, francois. Why does Thailand produce so few politicians, who are as decent and close to the people, as the excellent example set by His Majesty ? I think you need to go back to General Prem - as the last one who met this standard.