Baby Born Outside Thailand From A Thai Mother

[Annonymous]

Hello,

I'm looking for some light regarding a child born from a Thai Mother but outside Thailand. Here is what I already know:

• The child's birth can be registered at the local Thai Embassy and he can get a Thai passport within 30 days from the Thai Embassy directly, without coming to Thailand.
  
• OR: The child's birth can be registered at the local Thai Embassy, and he can later go to Thailand (with another passport) and get registered at an Ampur in Thailand and then get a Thai passport in Bangkok.
  

I have several questions about this situation:

• Is the Thai Nationality guaranteed at any age? Is there any maximum delay to register his birth with the Thai Authorities?
  
• If we register his birth now at the local Thai Embassy, and assuming we don't have 30 days to wait for his passport, he will then be able to get a Thai Passport once he gets to Thailand, however will he be able to obtain a Thai Passport without getting registered at an Ampur first?
  

The reason for that last question is simple, from my understanding when registering a birth at an Ampur we must add the child to an existing "Home" in Thailand. That means registering him as a Thai citizen, and we would like to avoid that. We only want the child to have a Thai Passport (as it reduces the waiting at the airport's queues and waives any VISA issues for long holidays).

In many countries the nationality and citizenship are two different things totally unrelated. In my European country people that live abroad for more than 6 consecutive months are not considered citizens anymore and are not inquired for the annual taxes, however the nationality is kept intact and the passport can be renewed ad vitam aeternam from any embassy abroad. My guess is that it is the same in Thailand, and therefor my main question remains: can we get him a Thai Passport within Thailand but without registering him as a Thai Citizen (ampur)? as this is possible outside Thailand (at a Thai Embassy) I would image that this is eventually also possible within Thailand as well?

Thank you very much for any information you have on this topic, much appreciated!

[Annonymous]

I have just read this:

Children under 14 are not charged overstay so they could stay home and just get overstay stamp when they finally depart

If that's true and legal and trouble-free (even for YEARS of overstay) then the child won't even need a Thai Passport! Please confirm this! Thank you!!!

[Maestro]

1. For a Thai child born outside Thailand it is easiest to get the passport from the local Thai embassy. Passport application can be made together with the birth registration.
   
2. Alternatively, after travelling to Thailand the child can get registered at the amphoe, added to a house registration book and subsequently the passport application can be made in Thailand.
   
3. The child of a Thai mother automatically becomes a Thai national at birth. Loss of nationality is possible through renunciation, if approved by the Interior Ministry, or through revocation by the Interior Ministry. See the the Nationality Act, sections 13–24
   
4. Registration at the amphoe and entry on a house registration book can be avoided if the birth of the foreign-born child is registered and the passport obtained at the Thai embassy.
   
5. To the best of my knowlege, Thai laws make no distinction between nationality and citizenship.
   

[JDGRUEN]

What country was the Child born in and what country is your citizenship?

[Annonymous]

1. For a Thai child born outside Thailand it is easiest to get the passport from the local Thai embassy. Passport application can be made together with the birth registration.
   
2. Alternatively, after travelling to Thailand the child can get registered at the amphoe, added to a house registration book and subsequently the passport application can be made in Thailand.
   
3. The child of a Thai mother automatically becomes a Thai national at birth. Loss of nationality is possible through renunciation, if approved by the Interior Ministry, or through revocation by the Interior Ministry. See the the Nationality Act, sections 13–24
   
4. Registration at the amphoe and entry on a house registration book can be avoided if the birth of the foreign-born child is registered and the passport obtained at the Thai embassy.
   
5. To the best of my knowlege, Thai laws make no distinction between nationality and citizenship.
   

Thank you VERY VERY much for all this information!

1. 
   
2. #2: Before registering the child at the Amphoe, we still need to register him at the local Thai Embassy, don't we? Don't they (the Amphoe) need a proof like a translated-legalized Birth Certificate from abroad?
   
3. #3: Okay Thai Nationality is never lost, so even if NO ACTION is taken right now he will still be able to get registered at the Amphoe years after, correct?
   
4. 
   
5. #5: I believe registering the child as a Thai Citizen would get him treated as a Thai and not as a foreign (e.g. vaccination, school, etc.)
   

What about not registering the birth at all and staying in Thailand as a tourist for years (on overstay, see the quote in my previous post)?

Thank you so much

[TerryLH]

Even if you don't want to get a passport for the child now, you should still get their Thai Birth Certificate from the embassy in the country they were born in.

Delaying that by years makes it a much more difficult process when you finally figure out there really isn't much of a downside to having a Thai Passport.

Since for a lot of things, such as school, kids need their birth certificate, pretty sure someone will 'discover' the child is half Thai when they see it.

Terry

[Annonymous]

Even if you don't want to get a passport for the child now, you should still get their Thai Birth Certificate from the embassy in the country they were born in.

Delaying that by years makes it a much more difficult process when you finally figure out there really isn't much of a downside to having a Thai Passport.

Since for a lot of things, such as school, kids need their birth certificate, pretty sure someone will 'discover' the child is half Thai when they see it.

Terry

Thanks Terry for the advice, yes I think we'll register his birth at the Thai Embassy, at least.

Regarding the original Birth Certificate (the one from the country the baby was born in), it doesn't stipulate that the mother is Thai, however the Birth Certificate from my own embassy (european) does!

I didn't know that birth certificate was required for stuff like school, interesting! He won't never go to a Thai school though!

[chris1dna]

Have you and the mother looked at the Embassy website yet? All of this info is available there. Albeit mostly in Thai. As long as the mom can prove Thai nationality to the embassy it should be fairly straightforward. We did have to wait here in the us till the consulate came in thir yearly visit as I believe the Thai national has to prove it in person. They come here to Berkeley ca once a year. Have docs requested and ready and the passport comes in about three weeks. All this info I about five years old now do sorry if not totally accurate but u get the idea.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Maestro]

Thank you VERY VERY much for all this information!

1. 
   
2. #2: Before registering the child at the Amphoe, we still need to register him at the local Thai Embassy, don't we? Don't they (the Amphoe) need a proof like a translated-legalized Birth Certificate from abroad?
   
3. #3: Okay Thai Nationality is never lost, so even if NO ACTION is taken right now he will still be able to get registered at the Amphoe years after, correct?
   
4. 
   
5. #5: I believe registering the child as a Thai Citizen would get him treated as a Thai and not as a foreign (e.g. vaccination, school, etc.)
   

What about not registering the birth at all and staying in Thailand as a tourist for years (on overstay, see the quote in my previous post)?

Thank you so much

Yes, for a foreign-born child the Thai birth certificate from the embassy or consulate is always necessary later to get the birth recorded at an amphoe in Thailand.

Registration of the birth at the amphoe can be made at any time in the foreign-born Thai national's life. I have seen several reports in this forum about such registration made by adults, even forty years old or older. If there was any difficulty it was about getting the Thai birth certificate which had not been obtained from the embassy soon after birth or had been misplaced/lost.

Entry on a house registration book, for which prior registering at the amphoe is necessary, is a prerequisite for the exercise of certain rights as a Thai national and free attendance at a government school is one of these rights, I believe.

Currently, up to the age of 14 a Thai national arriving in Thailand on a non-Thai passport is not fined for overstay but the overstay gets noted in his passport. For this purpose, Thai immigration usually accepts the Thai birth certificate from the embassy as sufficient evidence of Thai nationality.

For trips to Thailand with a non-Thai passport the airline needs to see a visa, eg a tourist visa, unless there is a confirmed flight out of Thailand within 30 days from arrival, but not all airlines enforce this requirement all the time. If he also has a Thai passport, this can be shown at chek-in in lieu of a visa even if the Thai passport is not used for entry into Thailand; the Thai birth certificate is unlikely to suffice for this.

[Annonymous]

Thanks for your reply and for the valuable information!

Currently, up to the age of 14 a Thai national arriving in Thailand on a non-Thai passport is not fined for overstay but the overstay gets noted in his passport. For this purpose, Thai immigration usually accepts the Thai birth certificate from the embassy as sufficient evidence of Thai nationality.

So we'll have to show the Birth Certificate on exit of Thailand? are you sure that even 1 or 2 years of overstay (as it will appear on his foreign passport) won't bring any trouble?

The way I see it, we'll get the Birth Certificate from the local Thai Embassy and that's it. No registration at the Amphoe once in Thailand and therefor no Thai Passport at the moment. This way he will be considered as a tourist whenever he is in Thailand. I'm just a little concerned about the overstay thing, I would love to see some legal text stipulating this, because as far as I know overstaying in Thailand is illegal and can lead to jail!

[chris1dna]

Mayb I missed something in the op. why not just get his passport via local embassy?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Maestro]

So we'll have to show the Birth Certificate on exit of Thailand? are you sure that even 1 or 2 years of overstay (as it will appear on his foreign passport) won't bring any trouble? ...

No, in Thailand you need to show it at the local immigration office when applying for an extension of stay for the child after it entered on its European passport, if you want to do that. Alternatively, you just can let your child overstay and it will not be fined, only get a note of the overstay in the European passport. Under current immigration policy, there is no overstay fine for a child regardless of the length of overstay. The fine exemption is probably part of criminal law, as a child below a certain age cannot be held accountable for illegal behaviour. This exception is not mentioned in the Immigration Act.

On exit from Thailand, your child shows the immigration officer the passport on which it entered, ie the European passport.

[Annonymous]

Mayb I missed something in the op. why not just get his passport via local embassy?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

because we're leaving the country in 2 weeks (the passport requires 4 minimum)

[Annonymous]

So we'll have to show the Birth Certificate on exit of Thailand? are you sure that even 1 or 2 years of overstay (as it will appear on his foreign passport) won't bring any trouble? ...

No, in Thailand you need to show it at the local immigration office when applying for an extension of stay for the child after it entered on its European passport, if you want to do that. Alternatively, you just can let your child overstay and it will not be find, only get a note of the overstay in the European passport. Under current immigration policy, there is no overstay fine for a child regardless of the length of overstay.

On exit from Thailand, your child shows the immigration the passport on which it entered, ie the European passport.

haaaaaa so I can get him an extension on his European passport based on the Birth Certificate or whatever document delivered by the Thai Embassy? Awesome!!! Would a one-year or more extension be delivered?

(All this assuming we do not get him registered at the Amphoe, and therefor not applying for a Thai passport, so we'll just have the document delivered by the Thai Embassy abroad.)

[Maestro]

The extension will be for one year at a time, cost 1900 Baht. Can get consecutive extensions without problem.

[Mario2008]

Proof of Thai nationality will be the birth certificate, which can only be gotten from the Thai embassy/general consulate for the country the child was born in. With the birth registered, the Thai government will have a record of the fact that a Thai national was born.

Alternatively the birth certificate can be applied for at through the Thai ministry of Foreign Affairs, consular department. They gather all documents and send it to the Thai embassy in concern who will issue the birth certificate. (So it takes longer this way).

With the birth certificate, the child can be entered on a household registration in Thailand and get a Thai passport in Thailand itself.

[Annonymous]

The extension will be for one year at a time, cost 1900 Baht. Can get consecutive extensions without problem.

That is really great, thank you so much, that is the kind of information I was looking for, as I didn't find any documentation about this particular scenario (not getting a thai passport but staying on an extended tourist visa with foreign passport). Thanks again

@Mario2008, thank you for this as well, so that's good to know that there is an alternative way out of it through the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs within Thailand, although we'll go with the local Thai Embassy as we're here now

[AlfGarnett]

i have wondered this also, we now live in Thailand, but our children still only have their British Passports. I was told by the local immigration department not to worry about the children, they don't need a visa. However as they are half Thai I would like to look into obtaining Thai Passports for them, saves me booking flights with Nok Air to Laos for them as they have no return flight when we arrive from UK.

Can it be done at a local Amphur or do we need to apply in Bangkok ? Btw the birth Certificates are the original English ones, we have no thai versions as yet.

[Mario2008]

i have wondered this also, we now live in Thailand, but our children still only have their British Passports. I was told by the local immigration department not to worry about the children, they don't need a visa. However as they are half Thai I would like to look into obtaining Thai Passports for them, saves me booking flights with Nok Air to Laos for them as they have no return flight when we arrive from UK.

Can it be done at a local Amphur or do we need to apply in Bangkok ? Btw the birth Certificates are the original English ones, we have no thai versions as yet.

You will have to apply through the Thai Foreign Ministry, consular section in Bangkok. (Maybe you cna also apply in Chiang Mai). The local amphur cannot issue a birth certificate for someone born in the UK, only the embassy in the UK can.

With a tourist visa they would not need a ticket out of Thailand. Cost of a tourist visa is 1,000 baht in local currency.

[asiaexpat]

As the parent of four Thai children, some born outside Thailand, I recommend registering the birth as soon as possible after the child is born outside Thailand. Getting a Thai birth certificate is rather simple if done soon after birth and in the country of birth, but can be difficult and costly if you do it in Thailand. I speak from experience as the MFA required DNA tests of two of my kids as well as all the other documentation 9including a translated english language birth certificate.) The passports can come later.

[BOBBYTIN]

Mayb I missed something in the op. why not just get his passport via local embassy?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

because we're leaving the country in 2 weeks (the passport requires 4 minimum)

then get the passprt sorted,nd come over if you have to,then get the passport sent here,we did all our passport stuff in uk,it has not been a problem,only thing i can see is ,he will have to do national serice,but that is a long way off.do it in your own country

[Annonymous]

Mayb I missed something in the op. why not just get his passport via local embassy?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

because we're leaving the country in 2 weeks (the passport requires 4 minimum)

then get the passprt sorted,nd come over if you have to,then get the passport sent here,we did all our passport stuff in uk,it has not been a problem,only thing i can see is ,he will have to do national serice,but that is a long way off.do it in your own country

It's not that simple, actually even registering the birth seems too complicated for now, I think we'll try to do it from Thailand as the process here is really crazy...

We are in Bali, there is a Thai Consulate in Bali but it cannot process birth certificates nor passports, and the nearest Thai Embassy which does is in Jakarta, 2-hours flight from here (no ground transportation as Bali is an island). It's the same story for my European embassy, at the difference that my own embassy doesn't need to actually see the baby so I can go to Jakarta alone, and they don't need any other documents than the one delivered by the clinic. It's a short and straightforward process.

On the other side, the Thai Embassy is requesting an incredible amount of documents from the local authorities, each translated and legalized from 4 different offices that are all at different addresses in Jakarta and Bali, for a total of 10 days minimum processing before even considering getting the birth registered! And the best of all, they want to actually see the baby in order to deliver a passport, meaning that I would have to bring the newborn and the not-yet-recovered-mother with me to Jakarta just for this stupid cumbersome thai bureaucracy!

Luckily my own Embassy doesn't need any of that, just the "birth information" delivered by the midwife/clinic/hospital in plain Indonesian, no translation required, and that's it, good to have it registered and they will even provide a passport on the same day (avoiding the 4 weeks waiting) as I have asked nicely because we're leaving Bali in 2 weeks. The Thai Embassy would not even consider such request!

[Mario2008]

You can only apply for a Thai birth certificate at the Thai embassy or general consulate for the country where the child was born. For that you will need the birth certificate from the country where the child was born.

Any other Thai embassy or gebneral consulate will reject the application. That is also the reason why the Thai Foreign Ministry sends it to that embassy if you follow that road.

[Maestro]

{quote}We are in Bali, there is a Thai Consulate in Bali but it cannot process birth certificates nor passports, and the nearest Thai Embassy which does is in Jakarta, 2-hours flight from here (no ground transportation as Bali is an island). It's the same story for my European embassy, at the difference that my own embassy doesn't need to actually see the baby so I can go to Jakarta alone, and they don't need any other documents than the one delivered by the clinic. It's a short and straightforward process.

On the other side, the Thai Embassy is requesting an incredible amount of documents from the local authorities, each translated and legalized from 4 different offices that are all at different addresses in Jakarta and Bali, for a total of 10 days minimum processing before even considering getting the birth registered! And the best of all, they want to actually see the baby in order to deliver a passport, meaning that I would have to bring the newborn and the not-yet-recovered-mother with me to Jakarta just for this stupid cumbersome thai bureaucracy!

Luckily my own Embassy doesn't need any of that, just the "birth information" delivered by the midwife/clinic/hospital in plain Indonesian, no translation required, and that's it, good to have it registered and they will even provide a passport on the same day (avoiding the 4 weeks waiting) as I have asked nicely because we're leaving Bali in 2 weeks. The Thai Embassy would not even consider such request!

{/quote}

If I understand you correctly you are saying that your child was born in Indonesia, that you are in Indonesia at the moment, and that you plan to apply for the child's Thai birth certificate at "your own European embassy", in whatever country that may be.

As Mario said, aside from the Thai embassy in the country of your child's birth, the consular department at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Thailand is the only other place where you can apply for your child's Thai birth certificate.

P.S. Until the quote function works again, I'm going to put quoted text in blue.

[AlfGarnett]

Thanks for the responses. My sister in law got her aussie daughters very easily, but am sure it can't be as easy as she reckons. Will get the Mrs on the case.

Cheers