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Peace May Be Achieved If South Handed To Southerners: Thailand


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Muslims just want to be left alone???? I can only speak for the UK here. If they want to be left alone, why do they expect us to change our ways to suit them? Then they complain if we celebrate Christmas and have Nativity plays in our schools. Maybe not in our life times, but they will eventually become the majority in Britain, and with voting powers will soon be ruling the country, already Mohammed is the most common christian name in Britain. It will be under Islamic law with a Muslim prime minister and cabinet. A lot of the women go around with only their eyes visible, which gives them the opportunity to commit crimes, it has already been done, it doesn't matter which country you live in, or which religion you follow, there are always a minority of criminals among them.

If anybody wants to go and live in another country, they must respect that countrys rules and culture and not expect that country to change anything about their way of life to suit them. Yes, Muslims want to be left alone, to do what they want, and when they don't get their own way that's when the trouble starts.

Most muslims want to be left alone. The problem is the radical ones (those that actually effect the lives of non believers) want to rule the world.

Whilst the silent majority remain silent.

Silence implies consent

Yes, silence implies consent, there was a lot of silence after the Twin Towers and London bombings.

Exactly!

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The violence in the South is a much more complicated issue than most people know. There is not one body of insurgents fighting the Bangkok government. There are many small splinter groups, each with their own agenda.

Some are Islamic militants, some want Bangkok out of their backyards, most are ethnic Malays and do not identify with the rest of Thailand.

Others are just out to cause mayhem. A lot of the violence is fighting between rival criminal organizations, but is called insurgent terrorism.

People seem to forget that the 3 southern provinces were annexed in 1902. The Thai are seen as invaders of their land.

The locals were never Thai. Almost all the ethnic Thai there now are immigrants.

Autonomy or independence will not happen. There is one major blockage to that. Oil and gas. A large part of Thailand's off shore fields are off the coast of Songkhla.

Any rumours of the Muslims wanting to take over the rest of Thailand is nonsense and islamophobic drivel. They just want to be left alone.

Excellent post.

Autonomy or independence will not happen. There is one major blockage to that. Oil and gas. A large part of Thailand's off shore fields are off the coast of Songkhla.

Why do you think Songkhla's O&G industry may hinder autonomy or independence? Oil companies are mainly headquartered in Singha Nakhon (just north of Songkhla city), which historically was never part of the Kingdom of Pattani.

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Then what happens when they want to extend thier borders give them more of the country?

The money flows in, because there are huge oil and gas resources and an independent new, small country is much easier to bribe.

But of course no one want to add some useless land with people that want a share as well.

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The violence in the South is a much more complicated issue than most people know. There is not one body of insurgents fighting the Bangkok government. There are many small splinter groups, each with their own agenda.

Some are Islamic militants, some want Bangkok out of their backyards, most are ethnic Malays and do not identify with the rest of Thailand.

Others are just out to cause mayhem. A lot of the violence is fighting between rival criminal organizations, but is called insurgent terrorism.

People seem to forget that the 3 southern provinces were annexed in 1902. The Thai are seen as invaders of their land.

The locals were never Thai. Almost all the ethnic Thai there now are immigrants.

Autonomy or independence will not happen. There is one major blockage to that. Oil and gas. A large part of Thailand's off shore fields are off the coast of Songkhla.

Any rumours of the Muslims wanting to take over the rest of Thailand is nonsense and islamophobic drivel. They just want to be left alone.

Agree with a lot of the above but the last statement I feel is incorrect. Muslims all over the world want nothing more than to take over where ever they live. In addition change the laws of that country to suite themselves. I once lived in an area in the UK that was taken over by Muslims and believe me us infidels are not welcome once that happens.

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Muslims just want to be left alone???? I can only speak for the UK here. If they want to be left alone, why do they expect us to change our ways to suit them? Then they complain if we celebrate Christmas and have Nativity plays in our schools. Maybe not in our life times, but they will eventually become the majority in Britain, and with voting powers will soon be ruling the country, already Mohammed is the most common christian name in Britain. It will be under Islamic law with a Muslim prime minister and cabinet. A lot of the women go around with only their eyes visible, which gives them the opportunity to commit crimes, it has already been done, it doesn't matter which country you live in, or which religion you follow, there are always a minority of criminals among them.

If anybody wants to go and live in another country, they must respect that countrys rules and culture and not expect that country to change anything about their way of life to suit them. Yes, Muslims want to be left alone, to do what they want, and when they don't get their own way that's when the trouble starts.

I could just find and replace UK with Austria in your text.

No Santa Claus allowed in many Austrian Kindergarten. No pork, even for local Christian children. No religion, not even Buddhism want to be left alone, all try to force their will on the others. While Buddhism is most tolerant, the Christian fanatics are already tired, the Muslim fanatics are full active.

And most problems they cause to own people who aren't fanatics. Turkish shops in Vienna who sell alcohol get problems from the fanatics....

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Muslims just want to be left alone???? I can only speak for the UK here. If they want to be left alone, why do they expect us to change our ways to suit them? Then they complain if we celebrate Christmas and have Nativity plays in our schools. Maybe not in our life times, but they will eventually become the majority in Britain, and with voting powers will soon be ruling the country, already Mohammed is the most common christian name in Britain. It will be under Islamic law with a Muslim prime minister and cabinet. A lot of the women go around with only their eyes visible, which gives them the opportunity to commit crimes, it has already been done, it doesn't matter which country you live in, or which religion you follow, there are always a minority of criminals among them.

If anybody wants to go and live in another country, they must respect that countrys rules and culture and not expect that country to change anything about their way of life to suit them. Yes, Muslims want to be left alone, to do what they want, and when they don't get their own way that's when the trouble starts.

Most muslims want to be left alone. The problem is the radical ones (those that actually effect the lives of non believers) want to rule the world.

Whilst the silent majority remain silent.

Silence implies consent

Tacit approval in my books..

Let's do away with the myth of muslim 'moderates'..

When the wild-eyed fanatics are out on the streets the 'moderates' are hiding under their beds waiting for the storm to pass...

Thailand shouldn't give away an inch.....

Most borders are artificial and most countries are not homogenous....

'Justice' and national borders don't mix well...

I would also make a phone call -around midnight- to the Kelantan PM,telling him that I know where he lives.... post-4641-1156693976.gif

Moderates in Islamic countries are very often targeted and killed by extremist groups. If you believe this is a myth do some research on countries such as Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.

There are many Muslims leaders who have spoken out against terrorism, just not well covered by western media. if you are interested in some facts, doubtful, but below are a few example quotes and URLs

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, president of the Fiqh Council of North America, the highest body of Islamic jurisprudence in North America, who has

unequivocally denounced anti-Semitism as against the teachings of Islam.

Source http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2009/05/muslims_do_speak_out_against_terror.html

The leader of a global Muslim movement has issued a fatwa, or religious edict, that he calls an absolute condemnation of terrorism.

Source http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/02/muslim-leader-issues-anti_n_482233.html

Some other online resources:

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

http://www.juancole.com/2005/07/friedman-wrong-about-muslims-again-and.html

http://www.int-review.org/terr42a.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0314/p06s01-woeu.html

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The violence in the South is a much more complicated issue than most people know. There is not one body of insurgents fighting the Bangkok government. There are many small splinter groups, each with their own agenda.

Some are Islamic militants, some want Bangkok out of their backyards, most are ethnic Malays and do not identify with the rest of Thailand.

Others are just out to cause mayhem. A lot of the violence is fighting between rival criminal organizations, but is called insurgent terrorism.

People seem to forget that the 3 southern provinces were annexed in 1902. The Thai are seen as invaders of their land.

The locals were never Thai. Almost all the ethnic Thai there now are immigrants.

Autonomy or independence will not happen. There is one major blockage to that. Oil and gas. A large part of Thailand's off shore fields are off the coast of Songkhla.

Any rumours of the Muslims wanting to take over the rest of Thailand is nonsense and islamophobic drivel. They just want to be left alone.

Agree with a lot of the above but the last statement I feel is incorrect. Muslims all over the world want nothing more than to take over where ever they live. In addition change the laws of that country to suite themselves. I once lived in an area in the UK that was taken over by Muslims and believe me us infidels are not welcome once that happens.

The situation in the UK and other European countries cannot be compared to the situation in the south of Thailand.

The circumstances are completely different. The major difference is that in the Thai south, the Malays, who happen to be Muslim, are the original inhabitants. In the West, the Muslims are the immigrants and come from countries where the impetus to conquer is much stronger. The Pattani Kingdom would have been separate from Thailand.

The problems faced in the West by Muslim immigrants are not existent in this conflict. Also, there have been no Tak Bai like incidents in the West.

Culture and ethnicity is at the forefront here.

If the 3 provinces secede or become autonomous, the wealthy Thai (Chinese) will lose many of the their assets. You see that happening?

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It was the Anglo-Siam treaty of 1909 when the British Empire ruled Malaya and signed away these Malayan territories to Siam.

This divided a nation which of course is people, families and relations straddling the now artificial border of the Golok River or Sungei Golok River ( ironically meaning River of Swords) as it is known in Malaysia

It's about time the British Government owned up to yet another error of colonial judgement in the days when democracy was only such if the colonial government so dictated. Look the UK's stance on Human Rights today and see if was applied in 1909.

With the huge gas fields overlapping the Thai-Malaysian marine border generating vast revenues and supplying much needed gas to Thai power stations, there is little chance of independence for these unfortunate people trapped in a past time.

The Future is here now - its just not very unevenly distributed .....William Gibson

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The violence in the South is a much more complicated issue than most people know. There is not one body of insurgents fighting the Bangkok government. There are many small splinter groups, each with their own agenda.

Some are Islamic militants, some want Bangkok out of their backyards, most are ethnic Malays and do not identify with the rest of Thailand.

Others are just out to cause mayhem. A lot of the violence is fighting between rival criminal organizations, but is called insurgent terrorism.

People seem to forget that the 3 southern provinces were annexed in 1902. The Thai are seen as invaders of their land.

The locals were never Thai. Almost all the ethnic Thai there now are immigrants.

Autonomy or independence will not happen. There is one major blockage to that. Oil and gas. A large part of Thailand's off shore fields are off the coast of Songkhla.

Any rumours of the Muslims wanting to take over the rest of Thailand is nonsense and islamophobic drivel. They just want to be left alone.

Agree with a lot of the above but the last statement I feel is incorrect. Muslims all over the world want nothing more than to take over where ever they live. In addition change the laws of that country to suite themselves. I once lived in an area in the UK that was taken over by Muslims and believe me us infidels are not welcome once that happens.

The situation in the UK and other European countries cannot be compared to the situation in the south of Thailand.

The circumstances are completely different. The major difference is that in the Thai south, the Malays, who happen to be Muslim, are the original inhabitants. In the West, the Muslims are the immigrants and come from countries where the impetus to conquer is much stronger. The Pattani Kingdom would have been separate from Thailand.

The problems faced in the West by Muslim immigrants are not existent in this conflict. Also, there have been no Tak Bai like incidents in the West.

Culture and ethnicity is at the forefront here.

If the 3 provinces secede or become autonomous, the wealthy Thai (Chinese) will lose many of the their assets. You see that happening?

That will happen when pigs fly.

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Moderates in Islamic countries are very often targeted and killed by extremist groups. If you believe this is a myth do some research on countries such as Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.

There are many Muslims leaders who have spoken out against terrorism, just not well covered by western media. if you are interested in some facts, doubtful, but below are a few example quotes and URLs

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, president of the Fiqh Council of North America, the highest body of Islamic jurisprudence in North America, who has

unequivocally denounced anti-Semitism as against the teachings of Islam.

Source http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2009/05/muslims_do_speak_out_against_terror.html

The leader of a global Muslim movement has issued a fatwa, or religious edict, that he calls an absolute condemnation of terrorism.

Source http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/02/muslim-leader-issues-anti_n_482233.html

Some other online resources:

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

http://www.juancole.com/2005/07/friedman-wrong-about-muslims-again-and.html

http://www.int-review.org/terr42a.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0314/p06s01-woeu.html

Good to see the voice of reason among some of the hate-mongers.

As mentioned above, there are a variety of groups fighting against the Thai authorities, each with their own agenda. Thailand will never give up the 3 southern-most provinces - you only have to look at the Preah Vihear problem to see evidence of that.

It's some form of autonomy that will have to be granted - in fact real decentralisation of many parts of the country would be a befefit to the people, but not to the central government & bureaucrats.

Putting Chalerm in charge of the southern insurgency response shows how seriously the government takes the problem. He's more likely to make it worse.

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what does thailand get from the deep south ?

gas ? oil ? gold ? TAXES ?

4x no ? than cut the losses

and they can solve their own problems

it was muslim area not soo long ago anyway till it got annexed by thailand 100+ years ago, or am i wrong ?

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The crux of the problem is a demand for independence.

It is obvious the guy that wrote this article, is as clueless as the Government.

I apologize for my ignorance on this matter too.

"demand for independence" from whom/what?

Aren't they Thai citizens?

Muslim first...Thai second

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I'm not that clued-up regarding the historical background of this region, but looking around elsewhere, and the conflicts suffered in Ireland, the Croatian and Serbian region, Cyprus, parts of Malasia and Indonesia, one common theme seems to be religious intolerance, and a lack of knowlege regarding how other countries who could potentially suffer conflict, have managed to settle their differences and agree to disagree. Maybe if a delegation of people from both sides of the divide, had the chance of visiting countries where things are a lot more stable, so they can see and hear how they have settled their differences, and talk together, maybe some kind of agreement can be obtained?

Of course the religious and political millitants (from both sides) will absolutely hate this, but then, if they weren't as narrow-minded, they too would be part of this debate. Look what happened in Ireland, the women there, rose up and kicked off against what their menfolk had been doing for decades, and off the back of that, things began to get a lot better in Ireland. Women in religious and political groups rarely have the 'voice' they should be entitled to, but on the other hand as the Greek tragic play 'Lystrata' shows - where the women said to their warriors, "If you want your 'rations', you've got to give up fighting" - they could be well be the 'Force' which could have a positive impact on this conflict. Mind you, the Greek tactic wasn't what the Irish women employed, they just showed the up their men as being a bunch of narrow-minded morons.

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The crux of the problem is a demand for independence.

It is obvious the guy that wrote this article, is as clueless as the Government.

I apologize for my ignorance on this matter too.

"demand for independence" from whom/what?

Aren't they Thai citizens?

Poorly written article, as far as I am aware their has never been a demand for independence, but for autonomy, which is vastly different. Polls a few years back stated 80% identified them selves as Thai nationals

Who were the other 20%...I am really curious regarding this.

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Here in Europe it is called "Islamic Progression to Sharia."

There is no territorial limit.

All of any faith other than Islam are considered less than 2nd Grade.

Perhaps the only way in the South is to herd all the muslims into one area, and heavily cordon it off.

There must then be a military cordon along the length of the Malay border.

All money moving in or out must be "sanitised" to limit the blood money from the Saudis and Iranians which is funding this aggression.

Yes it will mean moving non-muslims in the area to other areas - but that is a small penalty for current affairs being contained.

At the end of the day, the Thai people have to decide if they want this cancerous menace in their society - or not.

"Perhaps the only way in the South is to herd all the muslims into one area, and heavily cordon it off."

Good idea

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Muslims just want to be left alone???? I can only speak for the UK here. If they want to be left alone, why do they expect us to change our ways to suit them? Then they complain if we celebrate Christmas and have Nativity plays in our schools. Maybe not in our life times, but they will eventually become the majority in Britain, and with voting powers will soon be ruling the country, already Mohammed is the most common christian name in Britain. It will be under Islamic law with a Muslim prime minister and cabinet. A lot of the women go around with only their eyes visible, which gives them the opportunity to commit crimes, it has already been done, it doesn't matter which country you live in, or which religion you follow, there are always a minority of criminals among them.

If anybody wants to go and live in another country, they must respect that countrys rules and culture and not expect that country to change anything about their way of life to suit them. Yes, Muslims want to be left alone, to do what they want, and when they don't get their own way that's when the trouble starts.

Most muslims want to be left alone. The problem is the radical ones (those that actually effect the lives of non believers) want to rule the world.

Whilst the silent majority remain silent.

Unfortunately with their silence they are passively supporting the militants. Its guaranteed that the terrorists (don't call them insurgents please) are well known in their local area....but the passive Muslims will not "betray" them, either based on fear or more likely being a brother Muslim

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I think if you give them an inch they will want the full
mile, and if the Thai government were to give in now it will just give the Muslims
an autonomous base to work from with no access for the Thai police or military
to operate effectively from, and then within a few years Bangkok will decide It
wants the south of Thailand back, and a full out battle will begin for the
South and I am sure plenty jihadists will be willing to come and help their
brothers in the south, it’s all a bit comparable to what happened at the
Cambodian Thai border for a few hundred metres once you give them an inch.



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The crux of the problem is a demand for independence.

It is obvious the guy that wrote this article, is as clueless as the Government.

I apologize for my ignorance on this matter too.

"demand for independence" from whom/what?

Aren't they Thai citizens?

Poorly written article, as far as I am aware their has never been a demand for independence, but for autonomy, which is vastly different. Polls a few years back stated 80% identified them selves as Thai nationals

Sounds like 20% need to be made to apply for a visa, have all their land and property retuned to the state and/or then be made to leave to a country they claim to be a national of.

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Muslims just want to be left alone???? I can only speak for the UK here. If they want to be left alone, why do they expect us to change our ways to suit them? Then they complain if we celebrate Christmas and have Nativity plays in our schools. Maybe not in our life times, but they will eventually become the majority in Britain, and with voting powers will soon be ruling the country, already Mohammed is the most common christian name in Britain. It will be under Islamic law with a Muslim prime minister and cabinet. A lot of the women go around with only their eyes visible, which gives them the opportunity to commit crimes, it has already been done, it doesn't matter which country you live in, or which religion you follow, there are always a minority of criminals among them.

If anybody wants to go and live in another country, they must respect that countrys rules and culture and not expect that country to change anything about their way of life to suit them. Yes, Muslims want to be left alone, to do what they want, and when they don't get their own way that's when the trouble starts.

Most muslims want to be left alone. The problem is the radical ones (those that actually effect the lives of non believers) want to rule the world.

Whilst the silent majority remain silent.

Unfortunately with their silence they are passively supporting the militants. Its guaranteed that the terrorists (don't call them insurgents please) are well known in their local area....but the passive Muslims will not "betray" them, either based on fear or more likely being a brother Muslim

Well said Mudcrab, you certainly talk a lot of sense.

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The crux of the problem is a demand for independence.

It is obvious the guy that wrote this article, is as clueless as the Government.

I apologize for my ignorance on this matter too.

"demand for independence" from whom/what?

Aren't they Thai citizens?

Poorly written article, as far as I am aware their has never been a demand for independence, but for autonomy, which is vastly different. Polls a few years back stated 80% identified them selves as Thai nationals

Sounds like 20% need to be made to apply for a visa, have all their land and property retuned to the state and/or then be made to leave to a country they claim to be a national of.

Well, first why not ask them that question? IMO they probably claim to be nationals of Pattani which is precisely where they live. Some rather deeper thought is needed to resolve the southerrn insurgency.

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I think if you give them an inch they will want the full mile, and if the Thai government were to give in now it will just give the Muslims

an autonomous base to work from with no access for the Thai police or military to operate effectively from, and then within a few years Bangkok will decide It

wants the south of Thailand back, and a full out battle will begin for the South and I am sure plenty jihadists will be willing to come and help their

brothers in the south, it’s all a bit comparable to what happened at the Cambodian Thai border for a few hundred metres once you give them an inch.

Autonomy would not mean expelling the RTP or military from the region or for that matter any other Thai government national agency. Autonomous provincial government would have to abide by the Thai Constitution and Criminal Code

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"Autonomy would not mean expelling the RTP or military from the region or for that matter any other Thai government national agency. Autonomous provincial government would have to abide by the Thai Constitution and Criminal Code"

Agreed. The posters who compare the region with the Islamic imposition on Europe are poorly informed.

The insurgencies in Aceh and the southern Philippines were very much like the Patani one - previous Malay-Muslim sultanates were annexed by central governments after European colonization left, the central government imposed their corrupt system of governance on the region, and (as you might expect) the local population resisted this. So in fact in these cases it is the islamic populace who has been invaded, not the other way around. Popular insurgencies overcome much more powerful governments in every case. Like David beating Goliath. Fortunately it seems Indonesia and the Philippines have taken a less hardline approach.

Also it's noteworthy that Al-Qaeda tried to recruit in Aceh after the insurgency there finished. They figured that the locals were battle-trained and would be enthusiastic about carrying out war against the west. In fact they were not at all interested since their insurgency was about nationalist issues, specific to their situation. I read this in a report on counter-terrorism in Indonesia.

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The violence in the South is a much more complicated issue than most people know. There is not one body of insurgents fighting the Bangkok government. There are many small splinter groups, each with their own agenda.

Some are Islamic militants, some want Bangkok out of their backyards, most are ethnic Malays and do not identify with the rest of Thailand.

Others are just out to cause mayhem. A lot of the violence is fighting between rival criminal organizations, but is called insurgent terrorism.

People seem to forget that the 3 southern provinces were annexed in 1902. The Thai are seen as invaders of their land.

The locals were never Thai. Almost all the ethnic Thai there now are immigrants.

Autonomy or independence will not happen. There is one major blockage to that. Oil and gas. A large part of Thailand's off shore fields are off the coast of Songkhla.

Any rumours of the Muslims wanting to take over the rest of Thailand is nonsense and islamophobic drivel. They just want to be left alone.

Agree with a lot of the above but the last statement I feel is incorrect. Muslims all over the world want nothing more than to take over where ever they live. In addition change the laws of that country to suite themselves. I once lived in an area in the UK that was taken over by Muslims and believe me us infidels are not welcome once that happens.

The situation in the UK and other European countries cannot be compared to the situation in the south of Thailand.

The circumstances are completely different. The major difference is that in the Thai south, the Malays, who happen to be Muslim, are the original inhabitants. In the West, the Muslims are the immigrants and come from countries where the impetus to conquer is much stronger. The Pattani Kingdom would have been separate from Thailand.

The problems faced in the West by Muslim immigrants are not existent in this conflict. Also, there have been no Tak Bai like incidents in the West.

Culture and ethnicity is at the forefront here.

If the 3 provinces secede or become autonomous, the wealthy Thai (Chinese) will lose many of the their assets. You see that happening?

That will happen when pigs fly.

Hmmm....... pigs flying over muslims?

I bet you won't find that in the Koran!

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maybe should do what they did in Nortern ireland.30yr conflinct lots dead,ask a yank to come and stick his nose in let them off the things the terriosts did,and then a few known terriost from both sides run the country or what most soilders would like to do it tell politicans keep your nose out let us get on with it and finnish the job

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Then what happens when they want to extend thier borders give them more of the country?

I can't seem to find any instance whatsoever where any demands like this were made, chooka. They neither have the wish nor the might to demand anything like this.

Let's keep it real.

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Give them an inch, they will try to take a mile me thinks. These figures I find to be quite concerning.

In these nine years, only 250 identified combatants were killed compared to 750 policemen and soldiers.

Omits to mention that far more Muslims are being murdered in the Deep South, than Buddhists. This is rarely discussed as to why, I assume due to business/political disputes, drug and smuggling gang related activities.

"from Jan 4, 2004 until Jan 31, 2011 there were 4,186 deaths of which 1,737 were Buddhists and 2,331 were Muslims"

It's the usual anti-Muslim bigotry - -

Give them an inch and they will try to take a mile? Seriously? Oh, hang on - this is all part of the great Muslim conspiracy to dominate the world . . . which allows the rest of the world to do to Muslims pretty much anything they wish with precisely that excuse.

Coma? Yes, clearly

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