Anybody Else Considering A Move To Cambodia?

[Wimbledon]

The no visa , no reporting, inexpensive alcohol , are tempting .... There are good inexpensive restaurants once u did a little research or hooked up to someone who is living there. Transportation is cheap .. missing bigc or tesco or three ... And the waterfront at the downtown riverfront is not a tropical vision tosay the least! Pattaya bay looks like a jewel in comparison! The ladies are nice , plenty of fun bars ..... Nice markets for fresh vegetables , safe unless you are a liability

[scobie redux]

We might finish the night off with a $5 shisha.

Is that legal?

Of course it's legal. It's just a shisha. They are as common in Phnom Penh as they are in Bangkok, perhaps more so.

Why wouldn't they be legal?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[freebyrd]

Every country has its good and bad.<br /><br />For starters Cambodia is still very un developed with huge poverty.<br /><br />I use to visit many times, but found each time after few days i started to feel "sad" or whatever the feeling is just seeing all the poorness and dirt.<br /><br />Before making a move, i would suggest living there for a few months just to get the feel of the place.<br /><br />I have thought about moving there many times, but then i always ask myself, how would it be different to Thailand? and the naswer is most likely after a while it will not.<br /><br />New people, new language, new everything. May not be as fun and easy to adjust as Thailand was

For what it's worth, I lived in TL for many years and I first travelled to Cambodia in '96. I eventually gave up on TL 6 years ago and moved to Phnom Penh. A couple of years ago I bumped into someone who lived in the same apartment as me in BKK in th early 90's. He moved here because he wanted the simple life he once had in TL, much the same as me. I spoke Thai because I had to to really enjoy life. I haven't found the need to speak anything but the most basic Khmer, occasionally. Admittedly, that's due in the main to having a Khmer GF.

Here's a thought, I worked in a hotel in BKK circa '94. A tour group from the UK came through and on the day they were leaving, I had a conversation with two middle aged English women who sat at the same poolside table 20 minutes apart.

Me: So how do you like BKK?

Lady A: It's dirty, disgusting, smelly and horrible and I will never come back.

Lady B: It's wonderful, the people are so nice, it's so exciting and different, I can't wait to visit again.

Like anywhere, it's what you make it, Cambodia suits some but not others, likewise TL these days it seems.

[jimmybarang]

Hi All,

First post on your forum, I joined because I like Cambodia. Spent a bit of time in TH in the early 1980's and again last year. Lived in Indo 1979-1983.

I have been visiting Cambodia since 2006, between 2-5 times a year, had a business on riverside for 65 months that went broke

I live in Canberra and am trying to figure out where to go when I leave my present ( rare for me :-) ) job.

I endorse almost everything I see on this thread. Particularly PhuketRichards posts.

My take on the country/attractive points:

The people first and foremost.

English widely spoken and a thirst to acquire it- if u are a teacher you will be in demand.

For me, I love to have a little bit of land and a garden. lots of fruit and veg in cambo is imported from VN. expensive.

chickens alive are $4-5 each. expensive.

if you are real keen you can grow these things to sell. Mondulkiri province is nice and cool- high elevation- land with near surface water from around usd 2k/ha start price.

own land?

yes, you can- through your 49% company- the 51% split between the national shareholders/3 with poer of attorney to you and a motgage by you over the property.

costs about usd 1k for the legals and is watertight on hard title deeds.

in the lowlands land starts around $4/m2 for buildable blocks- village situations but nice around kampot, siem reap ( maybe on a canal) , and outskirts of sihanoukville. bluestar kampot is an interesting little pitch- seems to be getting some traction.

You can do anything you want that does not negatively impact someone else. Like to run a little rum still? no worries. tobacco a little unorthodox, so what, if you are Ta (grandpa) you need your medicine.

Want to work. no problem.

your business can belong to you- no local partner required.

you can make a big impact through your living there in very subtle ways simply by being there if you are a gardener. They have lost knowledge of horticulture there unlike thailand- the genocide did it, and loss of irrigation from the arc light missons that still is not rebuilt today.

Drawbacks:

bit rough and dirty

no tesco! :-)

no real rule of law.

no idea about food hygiene- you will need ciprofloxacin sometimes if you eat street food.

have to be en garde for street crime a little.

all in all it reminds me a lot of Bali and Thailand around 1979, except, I don't need to hang around with backpackers these days!

[hellodolly]

I think the only way to find out is to visit for a week or three - I will go back in 2014 to see what changes have occurred since my last visit in 2010, but I have no plans to move there. Forum chatter has it that there is a lack of affordable longterm accommodation and that break-ins are very common, but there is no substitute for spending a few weeks in PP (or wherever you plan to live) and talking to Barang who actually live there.

BKS22, are you familiar with the Indonesian visa system ? Much worse than Thailand. I'm just going to pay an agent in Singapore and be done with it.

.

Your information may be suspect.

Not sure what part of the information you find suspect and why you find it suspect. As far as the rent cost and B and Es go I have no idea.

As for the Visa into Indonesia no problem but to live there long term It is not that easy. I have a friend who is doing it and he says money must change hands. It is not that easy. Also it is not a once in a lifetime deal.

[hellodolly]

It has been several years since I was in Cambodia. I was in Siam Reap and I noticed yes there was a lot of English spoken. But it seemed to me that a lot of therm did not understand it when I would ask for information.

Also of concern to me was I had been to PP several times before and noticed there was not that many ATMs around. I would imagine that situation has improved in the last five years.

Was wondering about opening a bank account and transferring funds in from bank's in the States and Canada.

[JCauto]

I find it difficult to support any country that until recently has barely stopped slaughtering its own citizens. Unlike its surrounding neighbours, Thailand has never done that. I enjoy Chiang Mai because it has a very substantial western expat base. There is nowhere in the city that DOESN'T have someone who can't speak at least a little English. Chiang Mai is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it covers most of what westerners want in a society... lots of accommodation, good medical, good dental, stable economy, reasonable and available merchandise, many places to eat, night life, fair transportation and it's easy to walk just about anywhere within an hour.

Seems someone needs to learn a bit of history...the Thai are quite content to engage in a bit of internecine slaughter at times. And you are aware that the Khmer Rouge regime ended 34 years ago, right? If you want to count 1975-79 as "recently", then you might look up the Thammasat University massacre in 1976 for example or the Black May incidents in 1993 or the Thaksin "War on Drugs" in 2003. And seriously, you (and Mr Hammer) really want to avoid Cambodia for the rest of your lives because of the actions of the small clique at the Center of the Khmer Rouge? I take it you've never been to Germany, and aren't scheduling any trips to China any time soon?

As to English, you'll find that FAR more Cambodians speak English than Thai, and are much more interested in doing so. I too love Chiang Mai, but you sound like you moved to another country just to find something as close as possible to what you left rather than opening your mind to new experience.

[JCauto]

Who keeps saying that Cambo doesn't have go-go bars? Pick your definition of bar type because there are lots of types, but Cambo is far from lacking adult entertainment and at half the price of LOS.

Cambodia doesn't have go-go bars. Anyone who has attempted to run one has had it summarily shut down. That said, there is indeed no lack of racy nightlife. But no go-go.

[JCauto]

"After the War Was Over" by Elizabeth Becker. (Loads of detail about not only the era before and durig the revolution but she was one of the very few to report from inside Kampuchea after the revolution was won).

"The Gate" by Francois Bizot (A French expat in Cambodia who was very knowledgeable about the country, the language and culture who eventually became the only Farang to survive capture and imprisonment by the KR: but more than that he learned and relates very well a great deal about the nature of the regime and its mania)

A few books by Ben Kiernan ("The Pol Pot Regime" and others)and David Chandler ("Brother Number One""S-21" and others).

In fact, there's loads out and I do't recall reading any that weren't of some use (survivors accounts - relatively rare but very informative, though obviously harrowing and grim).

If you're interested in what was probably the best historical work on the Khmer Rouge era I'd recommend "Cambodia 1975 - 1982". Vickery pointed out that there was quite a lot of variation in conditions within the different zones at different times. Very well researched and detailed by one of the pre-eminent scholars of Cambodian history. In addition, I'd recommend "Cambodia 1975 - 1978" edited by Karl Jackson, which is a collection of shorter articles by established researchers. I'd agree that "When the War was Over" is probably the most accessible one.

[JCauto]

compared to Chiang Mai (where I stay)

I would be interested in comparisons of

-Internet speed and reliablity

-Traffic safety

-Air quality

I can't imagine wanting to be in PP. Where is the CM or Cambo? SR?

I live in Chiang Mai now, but lived in Phnom Penh for many years, and still have a business there. To answer your questions:

1. Internet is slower, less reliable and WAAAAAYYYYY more expensive.

2. Traffic is far more dangerous, especially if you're on a motorcycle.

3. Air quality is much better in Phnom Penh during February through April.

4. Siem Reap is the equivalent of Chiang Mai for Cambodia.

[JCauto]

Sitting here watching the Michigan National Guard try to clear IEDs with a metal detector and a pick (!) in Eastern Afghanistan, I'm reminded that there are other things in Cambodia that you wont encounter in Thailand : land mines. Granted, they aren't buried in urban areas, but how many of us would move to a country that had a problem with unexploded ordnance ?

There are a lot of different things to consider on both sides of the ledger, but this is fortunately not one of them. The only people who encounter land mines are poor farmers opening up new land in what are known to be dangerous areas. I cannot recall a single foreigner who has ever been injured by one post-UNTAC. Not one.

[Jip99]

It has been several years since I was in Cambodia. I was in Siam Reap and I noticed yes there was a lot of English spoken. But it seemed to me that a lot of therm did not understand it when I would ask for information.

Also of concern to me was I had been to PP several times before and noticed there was not that many ATMs around. I would imagine that situation has improved in the last five years.

Was wondering about opening a bank account and transferring funds in from bank's in the States and Canada.

It has changed.

The Cambodians are WAY ahead of the Thais in their knowledge, use and interest in English language. It is most noticeable (but not exclusively so) in the youngsters. Young tykes selling postcards, books etc can, at the age of 11, hold a a conversation with you. Many can name the last 3 British prime ministers - and likely US presidents.

A 24 year old waitress in a Pub Street restaurant, earning $120 a month, could speak Khmer, Thai, English and German - all to a reasonable conversational standard. A minibus driver earning $2 a day took great pride in pointing out "cow", "house" "dog" on a journey and told me how he learned English by listening to an English language radio station every night.

These people knew that being able to speak English would help them to earn more money - a perfectly reasonable motivation.

[mrdome]

To answer the original question, yes, I am absolutely considering moving there or at least making it my home base as I wish to spend time in other countries as well.

Good to see the negative opinions about Cambodia, preventing those who have them from being unhappy there and throwing their negative emotions around. Cambodia is a very rustic place and it's not for everyone. Some Westerners really love it, some hate it. It has its good and its bad like every country. The question is for ourselves, do the positives outweigh the negatives?

[JetsetBkk]

We might finish the night off with a $5 shisha.

Is that legal?

Of course it's legal. It's just a shisha. They are as common in Phnom Penh as they are in Bangkok, perhaps more so.

Why wouldn't they be legal?

I had to look it up as I didn't know what a shisha was. Obviously I must've read the wrong web site.

I just read another that says one shisha session is about as bad for you as 100 to 200 cigarettes! :

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/aug/22/shisha-smoking-how-bad-is-it

[lorenabobbit]

I've lived in SHV 5 yrs. Enjoy the proximity to the 5 beaches, the low rent (I pay $55 per month in a new complex), the mellow pace, the sense of neighborhood and community, the amicable Khmer population, and the Khmer food. Additionally the dirt, corruption and lack of western amenities hasn't been an issue for me - fond of the lack of western civilization - only concern is that eventually Cambodia will evolve into a pseudo-first world country like Thailand. But at my advanced age (late 60s) I won't be around to see that come to pass.

[KuhnPaen]

I am considering the move also...

Cambodia is way cheaper (especially upper floor apartments--no elevator=walk=cheap). Most of the country is on the US dollar (good for Americans--others, less so). There are many English speaking locals which is good because I don't speak Khmer yet. Cambodia is a gun lovers dream (you can fire everything under the sun at ranges--Ak's, B40 rockets, etc). There are beautiful women everywhere and the seem much less jaded towards farangs than Thai women. Great cultural offerings as well.

As far as the negatives--Street urchins follow you everywhere (esp in Angkor Wat) (Cure: pull out cel phone and pretend to talk-it's like a force field). Food not nearly as good as in Thailand (IMO)--lots of fried rice and noodle based dishes which seem like a less delicious version of Vietnamese Pho. At last check--you cannot marry a Khmer girl if you are over 50 (I'm not, but don't plan to anyway). PP is more dangerous at night than BKK (kinda fun that way though).

Overall, Cambodia is much more loose, funky, seedy,and free feeling than Thailand. My buddy who I visit there once a year says it is what Thailand was 30 years ago. Even that is changing though. I love the rotting French colonial buildings and slightly "wild west" vibe that is in the air. Cambodia exemplifies what I fell in love with about SE Asia to begin with. I don't need a Big-C/Terminal 21/Esplanade to make me happy or feel like I am back home. If anything, I want to get away from Western comforts. I am not a backpacker type but I don't mind roughing it either. If I do move to Cambodia--I won't be doing it in style, or buying a fat crib. I could probably live in PP for half of what it costs me to live in BKK--maybe even less-- which makes me lean towards moving there every day.

[MrWorldwide]

KuhnPaen, if I was prepared to rough it to that extent, I'd be looking at Vietnam. I don't think I've seen more beautiful women anywhere than the Chinese-Viet mix. Sure, the country isnt without its detractors, but you seem to have the cojones to take the good with the bad.

This is the army that kicked China in the nuts and showed the Khmer Rouge what happens when you take on people who can fight back. Cold day in hell before I'll get on the wrong side of a Vietnamese woman

[KuhnPaen]

KuhnPaen, if I was prepared to rough it to that extent, I'd be looking at Vietnam. I don't think I've seen more beautiful women anywhere than the Chinese-Viet mix. Sure, the country isnt without its detractors, but you seem to have the cojones to take the good with the bad.

This is the army that kicked China in the nuts and showed the Khmer Rouge what happens when you take on people who can fight back. Cold day in hell before I'll get on the wrong side of a Vietnamese woman

I concur. Vietnamese women are probably the most beautiful in SE Asia. My other home is Los Angeles, which have both the largest Thai and Vietnamese populations outside of their home countries. I have dated numerous Vietnamese women over the years and all have been beautiful. As far as being crazy "I'll kill you" types--that hasn't been my experience. If anything, Filipina women have that honor. Something about the Catholic, Spanish, head hunting islander blood that does it to them (my ex wife is Filipina and was hot but freaking bonkers).

IDK about living in Vietnam, maybe that's down the road. I like the idea of being between Thailand and Vietnam, and being one long bus ride away from both. Don't forget--the Vietnamese stopped the Mongols too.

[MrWorldwide]

KP. I'm afraid you misunderstood me - I didnt mean to imply that Viet women are crazy - they just strike me as very no-nonsense women. That said, nationality is no guarantee that I wont encounter a crazy one somewhere down the road - it just seems to be more an occupational hazard in some parts of the world.

[jimmybarang]

The odds are good

[pomchop]

I just came back from three weeks in Cambodia. Nice to visit but I sure wouldn't care to live there full time. It is considerably more "third world" than Thailand with more in your face poverty and beggars. The roads were overall HORRIBLE and in my opinion very dangerous. I sure would not want to do the Phnom phen to Sihanoukville or PP to siem reap road anymore than absolutely necessary.

I spent ten days in Sihanoukville mostly sitting on the beach reading books etc. It is a nice beach there and the water appeared clear and mostly clean....at least along the main beach. ....but walk up toward Otres beach along the undeveloped section and it looks like a plastic garbage dump all along the beach as the cambodias seem to have zero regard for litter etc....it truly was pretty disgusting in spots. The main beach area along serendipity beach is kept clean by paid workers who pick up the trash every morning. Prices in Sihaoukville are overall cheap....tons of guesthouses and hotels etc from $3 usd a night up....I stayed in GBT 3 which is right in the middle of beach area...nice room, ocean front, tv with 50 channels, refrig, new a/c etc etc ...$18 a night and well worth it.

draft Angkor beer is avail everywhere with some bars offering 24/7 drafts for 50 cents though 75 cents is more common price....booze all over Cambodia is way way cheaper than Thailand...beer/wine/hard spirits a fraction of thai cost. Food overall seemed more geared to western and was cheap as well....every night along the beach they have BBQ set up where you can have a really nice fresh tuna steak/ homemade fries/salad for $3...a real bargain.

Kinda weird that all prices are in US dollars and that is the currency used by most everyone....camob money is basically used as change as I never saw a single coin in use anywhere.

Several things you'll notice. No songtaeows anywhere which is strange as it sure seems it would be a big hit. Most of vehicles are passenger cars or vans with a fraction of the number of pickups as Thailand...motorbikes of course everywhere...their version of tuk tuks are little trailer carts pulled by a motorbike...it works but overall I think Thailand transport is vastly superior to Cambodia. I found few Cambodians that knew very much Thai at all but overall I think they tend to speak more English than the average Thai.

Sitting on the beach is a constant stream of one armed/no legs type beggars who literally will drive you nuts after a few days...there are also lots and lots of kids on the beach selling fruits etc but they aren't really all that aggressive and seem happy to sit and practice their English with you...of course they can be good smart sales kids getting a lot of tourist to agree to "later" thinking the kid won't be back...but they remember and do come back and point out that you told them "later" ....

Lots of backpacker types in sihanoukville and it is a big late night party place down around seredipty beach with some really loud music until the wee hours...lots of cheap booze as well as nitrous oxide balloons...pot is openly smoked in many places in Cambodia and nobody seems to care at all. I really didn't see that many older retired types in sihoukville as it seems most of them live/stay up near the victory hill area which is back away from the beach but has all kiinds of very cheap rooms/apts and more girly bars/massage and the like.

Siem Reap is a decent little town but of course very very transient with all the Angkor wat tourists coming and going to include a lot of pretty obnoxious Korean and Chinese tour groups...PP is of course the big city and can be interesting for a few days but I would have zero desire to live there.

The beaches and islands around sihanoukville are going to be developed a LOT over the coming years..there are miles and miles of beautiful beaches (expcept for trash everywhere) with no buildings in sight...there are boats going daily from the pier at serendipity beach out for day trips to "unspoiled islands"..there are also several big party boats aimed at the backpackers

The "girly bars" etc to me were really not all that great and overall I find the thai gals to be more fun. Apparently farangs can run a biz in Cambodia and there are a lot of bars/restaurants/guesthouses with farang staff/managers.

All in all I enjoyed Cambodia for a visit but frankly I suspect that a lot of the thai guys talking of moving there might want to do a few visits first as overall I don't think it is nearly as pleasant as Thailand.....of course your experience may be different.

[slipperylobster]

The medical care is a big issue for older people.

You got that right. When it comes right down to it, you want a warm fuzzy about having a half way decent hospital with trained doctors and staff nearby. Especially when you are talking about the "Retired Expat". Everything else is secondary. But the price of beer in Cambodia during happy hours two years ago was 25 cents in a few places there. That almost sucked me in, and I would die for cheap beer.

[slipperylobster]

I just came back from three weeks in Cambodia. Nice to visit but I sure wouldn't care to live there full time. It is considerably more "third world" than Thailand with more in your face poverty and beggars. The roads were overall HORRIBLE and in my opinion very dangerous. I sure would not want to do the Phnom phen to Sihanoukville or PP to siem reap road anymore than absolutely necessary.

I spent ten days in Sihanoukville mostly sitting on the beach reading books etc. It is a nice beach there and the water appeared clear and mostly clean....at least along the main beach. ....but walk up toward Otres beach along the undeveloped section and it looks like a plastic garbage dump all along the beach as the cambodias seem to have zero regard for litter etc....it truly was pretty disgusting in spots. The main beach area along serendipity beach is kept clean by paid workers who pick up the trash every morning. Prices in Sihaoukville are overall cheap....tons of guesthouses and hotels etc from $3 usd a night up....I stayed in GBT 3 which is right in the middle of beach area...nice room, ocean front, tv with 50 channels, refrig, new a/c etc etc ...$18 a night and well worth it.

draft Angkor beer is avail everywhere with some bars offering 24/7 drafts for 50 cents though 75 cents is more common price....booze all over Cambodia is way way cheaper than Thailand...beer/wine/hard spirits a fraction of thai cost. Food overall seemed more geared to western and was cheap as well....every night along the beach they have BBQ set up where you can have a really nice fresh tuna steak/ homemade fries/salad for $3...a real bargain.

Kinda weird that all prices are in US dollars and that is the currency used by most everyone....camob money is basically used as change as I never saw a single coin in use anywhere.

Several things you'll notice. No songtaeows anywhere which is strange as it sure seems it would be a big hit. Most of vehicles are passenger cars or vans with a fraction of the number of pickups as Thailand...motorbikes of course everywhere...their version of tuk tuks are little trailer carts pulled by a motorbike...it works but overall I think Thailand transport is vastly superior to Cambodia. I found few Cambodians that knew very much Thai at all but overall I think they tend to speak more English than the average Thai.

Sitting on the beach is a constant stream of one armed/no legs type beggars who literally will drive you nuts after a few days...there are also lots and lots of kids on the beach selling fruits etc but they aren't really all that aggressive and seem happy to sit and practice their English with you...of course they can be good smart sales kids getting a lot of tourist to agree to "later" thinking the kid won't be back...but they remember and do come back and point out that you told them "later" ....

Lots of backpacker types in sihanoukville and it is a big late night party place down around seredipty beach with some really loud music until the wee hours...lots of cheap booze as well as nitrous oxide balloons...pot is openly smoked in many places in Cambodia and nobody seems to care at all. I really didn't see that many older retired types in sihoukville as it seems most of them live/stay up near the victory hill area which is back away from the beach but has all kiinds of very cheap rooms/apts and more girly bars/massage and the like.

Siem Reap is a decent little town but of course very very transient with all the Angkor wat tourists coming and going to include a lot of pretty obnoxious Korean and Chinese tour groups...PP is of course the big city and can be interesting for a few days but I would have zero desire to live there.

The beaches and islands around sihanoukville are going to be developed a LOT over the coming years..there are miles and miles of beautiful beaches (expcept for trash everywhere) with no buildings in sight...there are boats going daily from the pier at serendipity beach out for day trips to "unspoiled islands"..there are also several big party boats aimed at the backpackers

The "girly bars" etc to me were really not all that great and overall I find the thai gals to be more fun. Apparently farangs can run a biz in Cambodia and there are a lot of bars/restaurants/guesthouses with farang staff/managers.

All in all I enjoyed Cambodia for a visit but frankly I suspect that a lot of the thai guys talking of moving there might want to do a few visits first as overall I don't think it is nearly as pleasant as Thailand.....of course your experience may be different.

A very accurate report. I concur. Two years ago, I did the Cambodia thing...in a series of trips. First I flew in to Phnom Penh....it was not for me. Siem Reap was just way too touristy, in a bad sort of way. Sihanoukville had the tourists, but they were laid back, and I enjoyed their company on the beach at night. I had a gal with me and we spent mucho time on the beach under the lights. Alot of action....kids dancing, fireworks, inexpensive drinks, conversation, music. Sihanoukville was just enormous...but I managed to walk to all the beach areas. Took about 2 hours from Orcheteul Beach to Victory Beach. There was another in the middle. A few sleazy nightlife bars, you might be disappointed with the quality. A good gym near the Golden Lion Circle. Not much good for shopping. Found a casino. I could live there, if I had to..but I just spent 15 years straight in the Philippines, and was looking to upgrade. Thailand was my choice... Cambodia is just too pathetic in many ways.. beggars, thieves, children running wild, a feeling of imminent mugging.... etc. etc.

[MrWorldwide]

All in all I enjoyed Cambodia for a visit but frankly I suspect that a lot of the thai guys talking of moving there might want to do a few visits first as overall I don't think it is nearly as pleasant as Thailand.....of course your experience may be different.

OK - we know you mean 'Thailand-based expats' - I'm pretty confident that not too many Thai men are looking to move to Cambodia !

[jimmybarang]

when I went to Thailand the first time- it was edgy grimy and poor, not so much as Cambo today.

I was young then.

If you have the means to have a sort of garden/ small biz/ light industry based life, and you have your health it could suit you.

Mostly all I have seen on this thread is true though.

The visa situation is unique on earth as far as I know.

[bucklt]

Lived there for 12 months ...2011-2012.

Bought land, a new motorbike, rented in Kampot and PP and opened my own school - great times!

Will move there once condo in Chiang Mai is sold.

Happy to chat with other Chiang Mai expats - meet in UN Irish etc.

Bucklt

[Jip99]

I just came back from three weeks in Cambodia. Nice to visit but I sure wouldn't care to live there full time. It is considerably more "third world" than Thailand with more in your face poverty and beggars. The roads were overall HORRIBLE and in my opinion very dangerous. I sure would not want to do the Phnom phen to Sihanoukville or PP to siem reap road anymore than absolutely necessary.

I spent ten days in Sihanoukville mostly sitting on the beach reading books etc. It is a nice beach there and the water appeared clear and mostly clean....at least along the main beach. ....but walk up toward Otres beach along the undeveloped section and it looks like a plastic garbage dump all along the beach as the cambodias seem to have zero regard for litter etc....it truly was pretty disgusting in spots. The main beach area along serendipity beach is kept clean by paid workers who pick up the trash every morning. Prices in Sihaoukville are overall cheap....tons of guesthouses and hotels etc from $3 usd a night up....I stayed in GBT 3 which is right in the middle of beach area...nice room, ocean front, tv with 50 channels, refrig, new a/c etc etc ...$18 a night and well worth it.

draft Angkor beer is avail everywhere with some bars offering 24/7 drafts for 50 cents though 75 cents is more common price....booze all over Cambodia is way way cheaper than Thailand...beer/wine/hard spirits a fraction of thai cost. Food overall seemed more geared to western and was cheap as well....every night along the beach they have BBQ set up where you can have a really nice fresh tuna steak/ homemade fries/salad for $3...a real bargain.

Kinda weird that all prices are in US dollars and that is the currency used by most everyone....camob money is basically used as change as I never saw a single coin in use anywhere.

Several things you'll notice. No songtaeows anywhere which is strange as it sure seems it would be a big hit. Most of vehicles are passenger cars or vans with a fraction of the number of pickups as Thailand...motorbikes of course everywhere...their version of tuk tuks are little trailer carts pulled by a motorbike...it works but overall I think Thailand transport is vastly superior to Cambodia. I found few Cambodians that knew very much Thai at all but overall I think they tend to speak more English than the average Thai.

Sitting on the beach is a constant stream of one armed/no legs type beggars who literally will drive you nuts after a few days...there are also lots and lots of kids on the beach selling fruits etc but they aren't really all that aggressive and seem happy to sit and practice their English with you...of course they can be good smart sales kids getting a lot of tourist to agree to "later" thinking the kid won't be back...but they remember and do come back and point out that you told them "later" ....

Lots of backpacker types in sihanoukville and it is a big late night party place down around seredipty beach with some really loud music until the wee hours...lots of cheap booze as well as nitrous oxide balloons...pot is openly smoked in many places in Cambodia and nobody seems to care at all. I really didn't see that many older retired types in sihoukville as it seems most of them live/stay up near the victory hill area which is back away from the beach but has all kiinds of very cheap rooms/apts and more girly bars/massage and the like.

Siem Reap is a decent little town but of course very very transient with all the Angkor wat tourists coming and going to include a lot of pretty obnoxious Korean and Chinese tour groups...PP is of course the big city and can be interesting for a few days but I would have zero desire to live there.

The beaches and islands around sihanoukville are going to be developed a LOT over the coming years..there are miles and miles of beautiful beaches (expcept for trash everywhere) with no buildings in sight...there are boats going daily from the pier at serendipity beach out for day trips to "unspoiled islands"..there are also several big party boats aimed at the backpackers

The "girly bars" etc to me were really not all that great and overall I find the thai gals to be more fun. Apparently farangs can run a biz in Cambodia and there are a lot of bars/restaurants/guesthouses with farang staff/managers.

All in all I enjoyed Cambodia for a visit but frankly I suspect that a lot of the thai guys talking of moving there might want to do a few visits first as overall I don't think it is nearly as pleasant as Thailand.....of course your experience may be different.

A good report, thanks - but (for me) the wrong conclusions.

I actually enjoyed the supposed '30 year throwback to Thailand' feeling and had no issue with roads from Koh Kong to Sihanoukville, Sihanoukville to Kep (and PP) or even PP to Siem Reap (although there were many road works when I traveled). The standard of Cambodian driving is no worse than the Thais and you simply need the same degree of due diligence when driving in either country.

I found the fact that Cambodia was less developed (read unspoiled in some ways) endearing rather than threatening. I didn't feel uncomfortable ot threatened anywhere in Cambodia - the area around Snooky port is a bit of a shanty town and no quite so comfortable. I also found, in general, that the Cambodians were more genuine with their smiles - especially the girls.

I found the beaches to be far superior to most of Thailand's commercial beaches and the rubbish factor to be no worse than many parts of Thailand.

If I were to choose to Cambodia I would opt for Sihanoukville or Kampot (although I also liked Koh Kong). I love going to Siem Reap and it is a step back into the "real world" for westerners (even with those pesky Chinese and Koreans groups) - I don't think I would choose to live there full time (unless I had a business).

PP would just be a place for me to visit for a change of scenery but Kep would be a regular destination for a break.

I think Cambodia wins hands down on it's attitude to foreigners, as reflected in it's visa regulations. I am also impressed with how Cambodians seem to make greater efforts to learn English - even if only for commercial reasons.

Thailand remains home for me but if the Thai authorities made it increasingly difficult to stay long-term I would have no hesitation in giving Cambodia a try.

[timtscott]

I was in S R and PP about 15 years ago and it was expensive even back then...can't imagine it is cheaper now. Back then there were no paved roads and the KR were still roaming the country side. The Russian Market in PP was cool..bought non-issued KR currency there which is kinda a neat keepsake.

The killing fields memorial is creepy. I didn't really feel safe in PP at night.

Would love to visit there again to see how it has changed not sure about living there though.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[soblue2001]

Pomchop - excellent summary IMO.

I was there for seven months recently and your observations mirror mine.

[MaksimMislavsky]

Whatever issues you might be experiencing in Thailand which possibly make you consider a move, you will face all the same issues with no exception in Cambodia, and many of them will be worse than in Thailand, as well as quite a few more problems specific of Cambodia due to lack of development which are long eradicated in Thailand. The only thing where Cambodia really beats Thailand is the easy visa. As to Cambodia advocates on this thread talking about sincere smiles and other rubbish, in my opinion a fair number of them are just desperate for customers to make their hastily opened businesses at least marginally profitable.