My Dog Was Attacked By Soi Dog

[Michael Hare]

I have a young Labrador-cross dog. A lovely and very intelligent fellow. A real mate. In the past I had Thai female dogs and they too were great. Easy to look after; lived to about 12 years of age. This is the first male dog I have had in Thailand.

Every morning at 5 am he comes out with me when I sweep my road frontage. He knows the few local dogs there are. There have never been any problems. Now his girlfriend across the road is on heat. Last Friday morning considerable bum smelling when on and of course growling by the males.

On Saturday morning when the girlfriend ran over to my dog this alpha male shot out of the darkness like a guerilla attack and stuck twice at my dog. All done in a flash. There wasnt even a fight. Deadly. Blood oozed from my dogs wounds. The vet has fixed him up and with all the injections he will be okay.

He has no home. Sleeps rough. However, I think I will wait this dogs life out. From my experience these dogs only live for 3-4 years before dying.

I just have to be more careful.

For the time being my dog is grounded until the mating season is over. Very frustrating for the young fellow to say the least.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Rimmer

[isanbirder]

I sympathise with you, or rather, with your dog. Dog mating, though, is nasty and brutish, and the strongest prevails. There's no such thing as a fair fight.

Yes, of course soi dogs should be eradicated somehow, but individual vengeance would be sheer vindictiveness. After all, how does the soi dog know it's not supposed to be top dog where your dog is concerned?

The only sort of consolation I can give, if it's that, is a story about one of my own dogs in Chiangmai.

I was taking my two dogs out for a walk, and had just crossed the road from my house when a soi dog, twice the size of either of mine, came on the attack. Soi dog, however, was not smart enough to recognise that my bigger dog was a Bangkaew! I let the BK off the leash, and the soi dog was driven off howling in 30 seconds. BK came back looking very pleased with himself. I was even more pleased that my other dog, a small terrier-type, which didn't even need to go on a leash, nipped round the back, and bit the soi dog in the bum!

Edited February 28, 2013 by isanbirder

[NeverSure]

I'm sorry about your lab. He looks like a wonderful dog.

This is one thing I'll never get used to in LOS. In the US we have strictly enforced leash laws, and dogs must be registered. A leash law to us means that the dog must be kept confined, or if taken for a walk must be on a leash. Any dog running loose is subject to being picked up by the dog catcher. If that happens the dog is held for 30 days for the owner to pay a fine and recover the dog, or the dog is "put to sleep."

If that incident had happened to me, the attacking dog would not longer be alive. I dispatched a rottweiler for attempting the same thing only about a year ago, as I was walking down our country road, only the attempted attack was upon me.

Now of course I know all of my neighbors' dogs and of course if one is loose I'll catch it for them or call them and certainly not involve the law. But the neighbors are responsible and this would be an accident not happening often.

But this tolerance of loose and potentially dangerous dogs is beyond me. I hope your lab recovers well.

[Ticketmaster]

Just kill the offending sonuvabitch. I love dogs and have never thought of hurting one -- until I came to Thailand. I have killed dozens of those goddamned trouble making chicken eating mongrels that hang at the wat. It's all you can do with vermin. Just because they are bigger than rats doesn't make them better. I'm not proud of this, it just came to be the only answer as they were multiplying much faster than they were dying off.

[Michael Hare]

Just kill the offending sonuvabitch. I love dogs and have never thought of hurting one -- until I came to Thailand. I have killed dozens of those goddamned trouble making chicken eating mongrels that hang at the wat. It's all you can do with vermin. Just because they are bigger than rats doesn't make them better. I'm not proud of this, it just came to be the only answer as they were multiplying much faster than they were dying off.

How do you kill these dogs?

[Gary A]

At one time a truck used to come around and collect unwanted dogs. We called it the bucket truck because they would give you a plastic bucket for each dog you gave them. YES, it's a sad fate for these dogs but how else can you control these unwanted dogs?

The system worked pretty well until some bleeding hearts, mostly farangs, had petitions demanding that the government to stop this practice. Amazingly enough the government listened. Now we have this problem. The locals are now beating the dogs to death and/or using VERY cruel poisons to kill those dogs.

Most of the dogs confiscated from the bucket trucks eventually starved to death because the bleeding hearts had not given any thought as to how to come up with the money to feed these "rescued" dogs. I happen to love dogs and don't want to see them beaten, poisoned or starved to death.

[ozzydom]

Obviously your "locals" dont have the same appetite for dogmeat that they do in our area.

Happiness for them is munching on grilled dog washed down with Lao Khao.

[HeavyDrinker]

Human mating is even more brutal.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Just get a bigger dog, it is a dog eat dog world out there.

[isanbirder]

Obviously your "locals" dont have the same appetite for dogmeat that they do in our area.

Happiness for them is munching on grilled dog washed down with Lao Khao.

Somebody who keeps their eyes open! I think this may be Khmer rather than Thai?

In our village there's no such thing as a stray dog.

[Semper]

Just kill the offending sonuvabitch. I love dogs and have never thought of hurting one -- until I came to Thailand. I have killed dozens of those goddamned trouble making chicken eating mongrels that hang at the wat. It's all you can do with vermin. Just because they are bigger than rats doesn't make them better. I'm not proud of this, it just came to be the only answer as they were multiplying much faster than they were dying off.

How do you kill these dogs?

A German guy in Pattaya used a knife, you've probably read about him in the Pattaya forum.

[Waffle]

I sympathise with you, or rather, with your dog. Dog mating, though, is nasty and brutish, and the strongest prevails. There's no such thing as a fair fight.

Yes, of course soi dogs should be eradicated somehow, but individual vengeance would be sheer vindictiveness. After all, how does the soi dog know it's not supposed to be top dog where your dog is concerned?

The only sort of consolation I can give, if it's that, is a story about one of my own dogs in Chiangmai.

I was taking my two dogs out for a walk, and had just crossed the road from my house when a soi dog, twice the size of either of mine, came on the attack. Soi dog, however, was not smart enough to recognise that my bigger dog was a Bangkaew! I let the BK off the leash, and the soi dog was driven off howling in 30 seconds. BK came back looking very pleased with himself. I was even more pleased that my other dog, a small terrier-type, which didn't even need to go on a leash, nipped round the back, and bit the soi dog in the bum!

Interesting story... I also have a bangkaew, not a big dog, a little over 20 kg, boy can that dog fight, never ever quits, he took on 3 temple dogs one day and they backed down from him, neighbours dog jumped him from behind 1 night and they went at it, within 30 seconds the neighbours dog ran home howling.

Maybe its their genetic make-up? They are decended from wolves no?

P.S. I DO NOT LIKE TO SEE DOGS FIGHTING!

My girlfriend told me once that if dogs fight dont get involved, I did'nt listen to her and 1 day while walking, 2 soi dogs attacked my dog, Like a fool, I did.nt think and just reacted, jumped in, fearing that my dog would get hurt, I tried to separate them but failed to realise that my Bangkaew was already in a full blown rage, he clamped down on my hand, probarly only for a few seconds but felt like it was in slow motion, he realised it was me and let go, instanly my hand swelled up like a balloon and it was off to Sansai hospital with little sympathy from the missus, could'nt train for 8 weeks, doc said "4 weeks", after a month it was still sore so we went to lanna hospital for an x-ray and then discovered that my left hand was fractured and could not use it for 4 weeks...

Moral of the story, when you're walking your dog, bring a big bamboo cane with you!

Regards.

[Michael Hare]

Thank you for the information. I always carry a big bamboo stick when walking my dog around a nearby lake and have used it to good effect on two occasions. I will not kill this mongrel across the street from house even though it is temping with him strutting around in front of my gate with his lady dog friend and pissing on my gate. Driving my poor Lab crazy. My dog is far bigger than he is but has no killer instinct at all. After all Labradors are used as guide dogs. No, this dog will died within the next year or so, either from a car accident or from disease. In the meantime i will wait out the mating season before letting my dog out again.

[isanbirder]

I sympathise with you, or rather, with your dog. Dog mating, though, is nasty and brutish, and the strongest prevails. There's no such thing as a fair fight.

Yes, of course soi dogs should be eradicated somehow, but individual vengeance would be sheer vindictiveness. After all, how does the soi dog know it's not supposed to be top dog where your dog is concerned?

The only sort of consolation I can give, if it's that, is a story about one of my own dogs in Chiangmai.

I was taking my two dogs out for a walk, and had just crossed the road from my house when a soi dog, twice the size of either of mine, came on the attack. Soi dog, however, was not smart enough to recognise that my bigger dog was a Bangkaew! I let the BK off the leash, and the soi dog was driven off howling in 30 seconds. BK came back looking very pleased with himself. I was even more pleased that my other dog, a small terrier-type, which didn't even need to go on a leash, nipped round the back, and bit the soi dog in the bum!

Interesting story... I also have a bangkaew, not a big dog, a little over 20 kg, boy can that dog fight, never ever quits, he took on 3 temple dogs one day and they backed down from him, neighbours dog jumped him from behind 1 night and they went at it, within 30 seconds the neighbours dog ran home howling.

Maybe its their genetic make-up? They are decended from wolves no?

P.S. I DO NOT LIKE TO SEE DOGS FIGHTING!

My girlfriend told me once that if dogs fight dont get involved, I did'nt listen to her and 1 day while walking, 2 soi dogs attacked my dog, Like a fool, I did.nt think and just reacted, jumped in, fearing that my dog would get hurt, I tried to separate them but failed to realise that my Bangkaew was already in a full blown rage, he clamped down on my hand, probarly only for a few seconds but felt like it was in slow motion, he realised it was me and let go, instanly my hand swelled up like a balloon and it was off to Sansai hospital with little sympathy from the missus, could'nt train for 8 weeks, doc said "4 weeks", after a month it was still sore so we went to lanna hospital for an x-ray and then discovered that my left hand was fractured and could not use it for 4 weeks...

Moral of the story, when you're walking your dog, bring a big bamboo cane with you!

Regards.

Sorry to hear about that. Certainly you should never interfere in a dogfight unless you've got a big stick.

There are various highly dubious accounts of the origin of Bang Kaew dogs. They get their name from a village (not much more than a temple) in Bang Rakam, Phitsanulok Province. The modern version is still half-wild; they can be fiercely loyal (and I mean fiercely), but are also very dominant (I was too much of a softie to have one of those!).. There is an interesting thread on Bangkaew dogs in the Pets sub-forum.

[I Like Thai]

Now his girlfriend across the road is on heat. Last Friday morning considerable bum smelling when on and of course growling by the males.

On Saturday morning when the girlfriend ran over to my dog this alpha male shot out of the darkness like a guerilla attack and stuck twice at my dog. All done in a flash

That's what you thought

Thank you for the information. I always carry a big bamboo stick when walking my dog around a nearby lake and have used it to good effect on two occasions. I will not kill this mongrel across the street from house even though it is temping with him strutting around in front of my gate with his lady dog friend and pissing on my gate. Driving my poor Lab crazy. My dog is far bigger than he is but has no killer instinct at all. After all Labradors are used as guide dogs. No, this dog will died within the next year or so, either from a car accident or from disease. In the meantime i will wait out the mating season before letting my dog out again.

I think you need to let the dog out so that he can find his own place in the dog pecking order. You have molly coddled the dog and he no longer knows what it is to be a dog.

The soi dogs are pissing themselves laughing at the pussy farang dog who is afraid of his shadow.

I think you have succeeded in neutering the dog without even an operation taking place.

Edited March 4, 2013 by I Like Thai

[Waffle]

I sympathise with you, or rather, with your dog. Dog mating, though, is nasty and brutish, and the strongest prevails. There's no such thing as a fair fight.

Yes, of course soi dogs should be eradicated somehow, but individual vengeance would be sheer vindictiveness. After all, how does the soi dog know it's not supposed to be top dog where your dog is concerned?

The only sort of consolation I can give, if it's that, is a story about one of my own dogs in Chiangmai.

I was taking my two dogs out for a walk, and had just crossed the road from my house when a soi dog, twice the size of either of mine, came on the attack. Soi dog, however, was not smart enough to recognise that my bigger dog was a Bangkaew! I let the BK off the leash, and the soi dog was driven off howling in 30 seconds. BK came back looking very pleased with himself. I was even more pleased that my other dog, a small terrier-type, which didn't even need to go on a leash, nipped round the back, and bit the soi dog in the bum!

Interesting story... I also have a bangkaew, not a big dog, a little over 20 kg, boy can that dog fight, never ever quits, he took on 3 temple dogs one day and they backed down from him, neighbours dog jumped him from behind 1 night and they went at it, within 30 seconds the neighbours dog ran home howling.

Maybe its their genetic make-up? They are decended from wolves no?

P.S. I DO NOT LIKE TO SEE DOGS FIGHTING!

My girlfriend told me once that if dogs fight dont get involved, I did'nt listen to her and 1 day while walking, 2 soi dogs attacked my dog, Like a fool, I did.nt think and just reacted, jumped in, fearing that my dog would get hurt, I tried to separate them but failed to realise that my Bangkaew was already in a full blown rage, he clamped down on my hand, probarly only for a few seconds but felt like it was in slow motion, he realised it was me and let go, instanly my hand swelled up like a balloon and it was off to Sansai hospital with little sympathy from the missus, could'nt train for 8 weeks, doc said "4 weeks", after a month it was still sore so we went to lanna hospital for an x-ray and then discovered that my left hand was fractured and could not use it for 4 weeks...

Moral of the story, when you're walking your dog, bring a big bamboo cane with you!

Regards.

Sorry to hear about that. Certainly you should never interfere in a dogfight unless you've got a big stick.

There are various highly dubious accounts of the origin of Bang Kaew dogs. They get their name from a village (not much more than a temple) in Bang Rakam, Phitsanulok Province. The modern version is still half-wild; they can be fiercely loyal (and I mean fiercely), but are also very dominant (I was too much of a softie to have one of those!).. There is an interesting thread on Bangkaew dogs in the Pets sub-forum.

I didn't know anything about the breed, 3 years ago we were on our way to pick up a German Shepard (or so I thought) and the missus suggested we stop off at the bangkaew farm on our way there... we went in and there was only the one male pup left, all his brothers and sisters had already been taken, I think he knew what was going on as when they let him out of his cage he ran straight to me and tried to climb up my leg, I picked him up and the rest as they say is history, we're very close, eat together, walk together, even sleep together, I've had his back, when he was small and we were out walking and he's seen me having to whack another dog that was trying to get at him.

Maybe thats why he's so aggressive now with other males, it really is a dog eat dog world in our neighourhood, hard to imagine because he's a champ around the house, watches TV with me on the sofa and always has a smile his face and wagging tail, outside the house its a different ball game, not the same dog, I'd go as far as saying that I think he almost enjoys fighting, maybe because of his upbringing in our neighbourhood or could be a genetic predispostion, who knows...

I wouldn't trade him for the world.

Regards.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Waffle

[isanbirder]

Have a look at that thread in the Pets section, Waffle. You'll find others like you!

One thing's for sure, Bangkaews love fighting, and will take on much bigger dogs (and usually win!).

[Michael Hare]

I am replying to "I Like Thai". You may be a senior member but you know very little about raising dogs. My dog is let out every single morning at 5 am when I do my road sweeping. Takes about 45 minutes. He romps and plays with all the street dogs as I said in my first post. He goes on the back of my pickup to the nearby lake where he runs free and sees at other dogs all the time. He is bigger than all these dogs and stands his ground and attacks well.

On the occasion of last weeks attack he was hit from behind as his dog girlfriend turned her scented back side to his nose. His concentration was all on his cock and getting his end in. This killer mongrel knew this and stuck hard two times biting into two large veins. The Vet had to put him under in order to clean the wounds and stitch him up.

My dog is not a pussy farang dog at all, as under normal circumstances all soi dogs back off. However, I don't want him to be attacked again during the mating season, especially not by these disease carrying mongrels.

You know what happens "I Like Thai". The male dog gets his dick in, the pair get knotted, they can not get away for at least 10 minutes, other male dogs come in and bite the shit out of the knotted dog while he is all tied up. And that means more trips to the Vet for stitching and injections.

You, I like Thai, may like this. But I do not.

[Waffle]

Have a look at that thread in the Pets section, Waffle. You'll find others like you!

One thing's for sure, Bangkaews love fighting, and will take on much bigger dogs (and usually win!).

I ll have a look out for the pets forum isanbirder, thanks

I might need to hire a tour guide, this site is huge

Regards.

[Waffle]

I am replying to "I Like Thai". You may be a senior member but you know very little about raising dogs. My dog is let out every single morning at 5 am when I do my road sweeping. Takes about 45 minutes. He romps and plays with all the street dogs as I said in my first post. He goes on the back of my pickup to the nearby lake where he runs free and sees at other dogs all the time. He is bigger than all these dogs and stands his ground and attacks well.

On the occasion of last weeks attack he was hit from behind as his dog girlfriend turned her scented back side to his nose. His concentration was all on his cock and getting his end in. This killer mongrel knew this and stuck hard two times biting into two large veins. The Vet had to put him under in order to clean the wounds and stitch him up.

My dog is not a pussy farang dog at all, as under normal circumstances all soi dogs back off. However, I don't want him to be attacked again during the mating season, especially not by these disease carrying mongrels.

You know what happens "I Like Thai". The male dog gets his dick in, the pair get knotted, they can not get away for at least 10 minutes, other male dogs come in and bite the shit out of the knotted dog while he is all tied up. And that means more trips to the Vet for stitching and injections.

You, I like Thai, may like this. But I do not.

Sounds like your dog has the good life Michael, off in the pick-up and able to run around by the lake, could never do that with my fella, he's got to be

on a leash the whole time, he's a danger to himself and other animals, he'll chase anything that moves, 1 day he got out and we were looking for him... didn't know where he went to, then a goat ran around the corner closely followed by my dog and the owners shouts not far behind, he wouldn't hurt the goat, just likes to chase things, loves to catch mice in the garden and he's good at it too.Now that he's grown up and stopped destroying my property his

only flaw is his aggressiveness to other males, thats something I'm used to now and walk him in the evening and stay away from certain soi's, we.re lucky

we live in the country side and theres plenty of space to walk him and avoid problems.

P.S. I agree with you on what you said in your post above.

Regards.

[isanbirder]

Have a look at that thread in the Pets section, Waffle. You'll find others like you!

One thing's for sure, Bangkaews love fighting, and will take on much bigger dogs (and usually win!).

I ll have a look out for the pets forum isanbirder, thanks

I might need to hire a tour guide, this site is huge

Regards.

I was being lazy! Here's the link.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/254172-thai-bangkaew-dog/page-6?hl=%2Bbangkaew#entry5708466

(Somehow I seem to have got you page 6, but it'll get you there!)

[Waffle]

Thanks for the link isanbirder!

I'll go check it out.

Regards.

[Potosi]

Two neighbours have Rottweilers, I have a Pit. None of them gets attacked by street dogs, unless when walked on a leash. No problem, unleash them, and the soi dogs ran off. None of them comes near our houses, bad experiences when a gate opens, and one of the large dogs suddenly runs out on the street. I guess Thai dogs are like the people. To compensate for inferior strength they have to ambush larger dogs, or to attack as pack.

[Waffle]

Hey guys, just wanted to throw up a couple of pics of my bangkaew....

[isanbirder]

Hey guys, just wanted to throw up a couple of pics of my bangkaew....

Lovely dogs, aren't they? Who'd want a Rottie or a Pitbull if they could have those? But tastes differ, I suppose!

[I Like Thai]

I am replying to "I Like Thai". You may be a senior member but you know very little about raising dogs. My dog is let out every single morning at 5 am when I do my road sweeping. Takes about 45 minutes. He romps and plays with all the street dogs as I said in my first post. He goes on the back of my pickup to the nearby lake where he runs free and sees at other dogs all the time. He is bigger than all these dogs and stands his ground and attacks well.

On the occasion of last weeks attack he was hit from behind as his dog girlfriend turned her scented back side to his nose. His concentration was all on his cock and getting his end in. This killer mongrel knew this and stuck hard two times biting into two large veins. The Vet had to put him under in order to clean the wounds and stitch him up.

My dog is not a pussy farang dog at all, as under normal circumstances all soi dogs back off. However, I don't want him to be attacked again during the mating season, especially not by these disease carrying mongrels.

You know what happens "I Like Thai". The male dog gets his dick in, the pair get knotted, they can not get away for at least 10 minutes, other male dogs come in and bite the shit out of the knotted dog while he is all tied up. And that means more trips to the Vet for stitching and injections.

You, I like Thai, may like this. But I do not.

My point was that you can't have a dog that is 50/50. If he is a house dog, then keep him on a lead at all times when out and about. If you want him to interact with the local dogs, then he needs to be outside on his own with the soi dogs from when he was a pup. Going outside only when he is with you will not work. He is never seen as part of the local pack and doesn't have a place in the pecking order. This will always put him at a disadvantage when interacting with the local soi dogs. Dogs in heat will bring this to a head. During normal times, the local dogs will be wary of him, basically because he is with you. But when a female goes into heat, then the local dogs don't care about you or anything else. It's every dog for himself. Your dog simply wasn't careful enough because he didn't know that he needed to be careful.

Your plan of keeping your dog inside for maybe 3 or 4 years until the rogue dog dies, I find bizarre

[Michael Hare]

I am replying to "I Like Thai". You may be a senior member but you know very little about raising dogs. My dog is let out every single morning at 5 am when I do my road sweeping. Takes about 45 minutes. He romps and plays with all the street dogs as I said in my first post. He goes on the back of my pickup to the nearby lake where he runs free and sees at other dogs all the time. He is bigger than all these dogs and stands his ground and attacks well.

On the occasion of last weeks attack he was hit from behind as his dog girlfriend turned her scented back side to his nose. His concentration was all on his cock and getting his end in. This killer mongrel knew this and stuck hard two times biting into two large veins. The Vet had to put him under in order to clean the wounds and stitch him up.

My dog is not a pussy farang dog at all, as under normal circumstances all soi dogs back off. However, I don't want him to be attacked again during the mating season, especially not by these disease carrying mongrels.

You know what happens "I Like Thai". The male dog gets his dick in, the pair get knotted, they can not get away for at least 10 minutes, other male dogs come in and bite the shit out of the knotted dog while he is all tied up. And that means more trips to the Vet for stitching and injections.

You, I like Thai, may like this. But I do not.

My point was that you can't have a dog that is 50/50. If he is a house dog, then keep him on a lead at all times when out and about. If you want him to interact with the local dogs, then he needs to be outside on his own with the soi dogs from when he was a pup. Going outside only when he is with you will not work. He is never seen as part of the local pack and doesn't have a place in the pecking order. This will always put him at a disadvantage when interacting with the local soi dogs. Dogs in heat will bring this to a head. During normal times, the local dogs will be wary of him, basically because he is with you. But when a female goes into heat, then the local dogs don't care about you or anything else. It's every dog for himself. Your dog simply wasn't careful enough because he didn't know that he needed to be careful.

Your plan of keeping your dog inside for maybe 3 or 4 years until the rogue dog dies, I find bizarre

My dog is not exactly inside. He has a huge garden to run around in, pools to swim in and lots of trees to lie underneath. I find it bizarre that a person would want their dog to outside with the local unvaccinated pack and eating rubbish out of rubbish bins very bizarre. As I am away at work from 7:30 am to 5 pm each working day, I am not letting my dog run free.. My dog has been out the last two mornings and enjoyed himself.

It doesn't take 3-4 years for a rogue dog to die around my area. He will be dead within the year. Another thing, I didn't get my dog when he was a pup. I got him when he was eight months old.

[Travel2003]

Hey guys, just wanted to throw up a couple of pics of my bangkaew....

Lovely dogs, aren't they? Who'd want a Rottie or a Pitbull if they could have those? But tastes differ, I suppose!

They?

I see only one dog.

[Waffle]

Hey guys, just wanted to throw up a couple of pics of my bangkaew....

Lovely dogs, aren't they? Who'd want a Rottie or a Pitbull if they could have those? But tastes differ, I suppose!

Sure are, each to their own, I originally wanted the GS dog but maybe its a good thing I didn't get him, talked with many people who've

had golden Retrievers, St. bernards and others types of western breeds, a lot of these dogs seem to die prematurely, could be

the climate over here, friend had a St. Bernard who passed away at only 2 years old...

Another reason maybe is that they re over breeding these dogs and they develop problems? (I dont know..)

Anyway, I'm happy with my Bangkaew, very loyal and affectionate, good guard dog, not too big, not too small and the heat dosen't seem

to bother him...

Regards.

[Morden]

It's sad to read of a loved and well cared for dog being attacked. We've been through it ourselves.

Chicken killers getting onto our land were dealt with using chicken and rat poison. It was put at the place where they got in. They ate the stuff on our land so my consciemce is clear.

Papper spray is handy if you are out with your dog in the soi. It's probaby handy for the increasingly nasty scooter boys too. At home, we are willing to shoot any of them now.