Fix the roof apparently.

Didn't they do some ceiling work in the Vatican many years ago?

Yes but they had to hire a gayboy to do the work.

Fix the roof apparently.

Didn't they do some ceiling work in the Vatican many years ago?

Yes but they had to hire a gayboy to do the work.

Leonardo De Caprio is gay???

Or is it that other Leonardo.....

Fix the roof apparently.

Didn't they do some ceiling work in the Vatican many years ago?

Yes but they had to hire a gayboy to do the work.

Leonardo De Caprio is gay???

Or is it that other Leonardo.....

Leonardo was the bloke who did smiley women. Michelangelo was the painter and decorator...

They employed a painter called Michelle inside the Sistine Chapel?

Are you kidding???

In a house of God....good grief....such piety....I assume she had a filthy habit....?

They employed a painter called Michelle inside the Sistine Chapel?

Seems likely by the chatter I'm reading that the new 'infallible one' may be called up on remarks and actions he made during the 70's along with a couple of missing priests from the same period.

Seems likely by the chatter I'm reading that the new 'infallible one' may be called up on remarks and actions he made during the 70's along with a couple of missing priests from the same period.

Lots of folk got lost in tartan flares in the 70's.....you can't blame the church for all of these things.

The days of two and six in the collection pot ended then too....I wonder how quick they were to convert to decimalisation?

I wonder how quick they were to convert to decimalisation?

Pretty darn quick if it involved money.

Seems likely by the chatter I'm reading that the new 'infallible one' may be called up on remarks and actions he made during the 70's along with a couple of missing priests from the same period.

One of the two priests is dead, and the other was very publicly reconciled with Pope Francis some years ago.

The new Pope has got one monster of a job to do. Only the small-minded, who love to undermine those finer than themselves, would harp on an incident which was over and done with long ago.... and in which even the evidence that he was at fault is tenuous to say the least.

Seems likely by the chatter I'm reading that the new 'infallible one' may be called up on remarks and actions he made during the 70's along with a couple of missing priests from the same period.

Should we regard everything you have to say as stemming from "chatter" or gossip? You should seek to be as truthful as you're able when calling into question the actions or character of others. You may want to read up on what Amnesty International concluded on the matter you allude to. They are generally considered non-biased but you and other chatterers may disagree.

The ascension of Pope Francis is likely to usher in the most radical change in the Catholic church in more than 50 years, claim those who know the Argentinian Jesuit from the barrio of Buenos Aires where he was born and cut his political teeth.

Zero tolerance of sexual abuse, stricter control of church finances, a shift away from Eurocentrism, more emphasis on poverty, and a ruthless purge of high-ranking opponents in the Vatican can be expected in the years ahead, according to priests and laymen who have spent decades watching the career of the first Latin American pope

.http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/16/pope-francis-radical-reshape-catholic-church

as far as i am concerned... Francisco Primero is my kind of Pope. VIVA IL PAPA!

Pope blessing guide dog "Asia" of a blind radio-journalist who asked for a papal audience

and a blessing for his family. the Pope granted the audience and also blessed the dog.

The ascension of Pope Francis is likely to usher in the most radical change in the Catholic church in more than 50 years, claim those who know the Argentinian Jesuit from the barrio of Buenos Aires where he was born and cut his political teeth.

Zero tolerance of sexual abuse, stricter control of church finances, a shift away from Eurocentrism, more emphasis on poverty, and a ruthless purge of high-ranking opponents in the Vatican can be expected in the years ahead, according to priests and laymen who have spent decades watching the career of the first Latin American pope

.http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/16/pope-francis-radical-reshape-catholic-church

He's an old man with one lung. He's another transitional Pope like Benedict. Also he's a virtual Italian; otherwise they weren't ready for a South American.

Edited March 17, 201313 yr by Jingthing

The ascension of Pope Francis is likely to usher in the most radical change in the Catholic church in more than 50 years, claim those who know the Argentinian Jesuit from the barrio of Buenos Aires where he was born and cut his political teeth.

Zero tolerance of sexual abuse, stricter control of church finances, a shift away from Eurocentrism, more emphasis on poverty, and a ruthless purge of high-ranking opponents in the Vatican can be expected in the years ahead, according to priests and laymen who have spent decades watching the career of the first Latin American pope

.http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/16/pope-francis-radical-reshape-catholic-church

He's an old man with one lung. He's another transitional Pope like Benedict. Also he's a virtual Italian; otherwise they weren't ready for a South American.

all Popes are transitional. you and i are transitional too. numbers of lungs are irrelevant.

No, not all Popes are transitional in the sense I meant which is a well known concept among Pope watchers.

You didn't get a pro-gay rights Pope, Jingthing, so everything else must be wrong. Why not, you got a pro-Malvinas Pope, so everything else must be right?

Your judgments are so narrow!

You didn't get a pro-gay rights Pope, Jingthing, so everything else must be wrong. Why not, you got a pro-Malvinas Pope, so everything else must be right?

Your judgments are so narrow!

Not everything is wrong. Just not as much is right as the optimists think.

Also if I were you, I'd be a little careful about trying to make this personal.

I think most secular people can't really understand how gay people with any self esteem can be happy about a Pope that equates gay people entering civil marriages as the work of SATAN, and yet lovely Pope Francis did just that.

The name Francis is very nice. Whether he lives up to that is another story. Pope Benedict, another too oldie, certainly failed miserably in his mission implied by his name.

I think Pope Francis will indeed be well loved and popular as a PERSONALITY. But in the name of WHAT exactly?

I like his personality myself. He rides the bus. Like me!

Edited March 17, 201313 yr by Jingthing

No, not all Popes are transitional in the sense I meant which is a well known concept among Pope watchers.

Doesn't mean a thing. Pope John XXIII was supposed to be a "transitional" Pope as well, in the way you mean it.

You didn't get a pro-gay rights Pope, Jingthing, so everything else must be wrong. Why not, you got a pro-Malvinas Pope, so everything else must be right?

Your judgments are so narrow!

Not everything is wrong. Just not as much is right as the optimists think.

Also if I were you, I'd be a little careful about trying to make this personal.

I think most secular people can't really understand how gay people with any self esteem can be happy about a Pope that equates gay people entering civil marriages as the work of SATAN, and yet lovely Pope Francis did just that.

The name Francis is very nice. Whether he lives up to that is another story. Pope Benedict, another too oldie, certainly failed miserably in his mission implied by his name.

I think Pope Francis will indeed be well loved and popular as a PERSONALITY. But in the name of WHAT exactly?

I like his personality myself. He rides the bus. Like me!

I prefer to reserve judgment. The quotation from the Guardian surpised me, it was so optimistic.

I hope Pope Francis will turn out to be somewhat on the lines of John XXIII, certainly the most beloved Pope since WWII. I think we will see changes we don't expect, and not see others which we do expect. I shall wait and see.

You didn't get a pro-gay rights Pope, Jingthing, so everything else must be wrong. Why not, you got a pro-Malvinas Pope, so everything else must be right?

Your judgments are so narrow!

Not everything is wrong. Just not as much is right as the optimists think.

....

Pope Benedict, another too oldie, certainly failed miserably in his mission implied by his name.

Don't expect too much from the younger cardinals either. Luis Antonio Tagle, the youngest current cardinal, from the Philippines, is a follower of Ratzinger, as is the new Francis I.

Opposed to abortion, but claims to support women's rights (which ones?). Opposed to prostitution, opposed to gat rights, but keen on relieving poverty.

As with all these religious leaders, they are not all things to all men, as politicians try to be. They do have a moral compass, but not necessarily one that guides them towards 'modern' 'politically correct' dogma.

Fine. "Compass" to their flock. Leave everyone else alone!

Fine. "Compass" to their flock. Leave everyone else alone!

If everybody else would leave us alone, that might be a lot easier, Jingthing. Interference, if that's what you'd call it, goes both ways.

Fine. "Compass" to their flock. Leave everyone else alone!

If everybody else would leave us alone, that might be a lot easier, Jingthing. Interference, if that's what you'd call it, goes both ways.

What interference are you talking about? Your church has a very high international profile. They have a dreadful historical record in forcefully (putting that mildly) cramming their down their dogma (google: inquisition) and are still very active in aggressive conversion efforts. What have non-Catholics done exactly that interferes with your right to follow Catholic doctrine? Complain that your church has protected sex criminals, which it has? Seriously I really want to know about this interference you speak of. I don't think it exists.

I strongly get the feeling that you don't think non-Catholics have a right to voice strong opinions about Catholic institutional actions or Popes. If that's the case, my response would be ... too bad. The Catholic church is MASSIVELY large and powerful and yes does much good in the world and also much bad. It's leaders seem clearly interested in preaching (and more) to the entire world, not only Catholics. It is open to public criticism by everyone, Catholic and non-Catholic alike.

Yes there are some authoritarian countries with minority Catholic and/or Christian populations where these religions are repressed by the states. I'm not really talking about those cases in my query. All people of good will are obviously against repression of freedom of worship.

Edited March 18, 201313 yr by Jingthing

Fine. "Compass" to their flock. Leave everyone else alone!

If everybody else would leave us alone, that might be a lot easier, Jingthing. Interference, if that's what you'd call it, goes both ways.

What interference are you talking about? Your church has a very high international profile. They have a dreadful historical record in forcefully (putting that mildly) cramming their down their dogma (google: inquisition) and are still very active in aggressive conversion efforts. What have non-Catholics done exactly that interferes with your right to follow Catholic doctrine? Complain that your church has protected sex criminals, which it has? Seriously I really want to know about this interference you speak of. I don't think it exists.

I strongly get the feeling that you don't think non-Catholics have a right to voice strong opinions about Catholic institutional actions or Popes. If that's the case, my response would be ... too bad. The Catholic church is MASSIVELY large and powerful and yes does much good in the world and also much bad. It's leaders seem clearly interested in preaching (and more) to the entire world, not only Catholics. It is open to public criticism by everyone, Catholic and non-Catholic alike.

Yes there are some authoritarian countries with minority Catholic and/or Christian populations where these religions are repressed by the states. I'm not really talking about those cases in my query. All people of good will are obviously against repression of freedom of worship.

The problem with obtaining freedom FROM religion is that theists of all flavours know that it would cause their belief to die out. To keep on topic I'll address the CC but it works equally well with others.

People die so in order for the CC church to continue to exist it needs to replace those that have passed away on at least a 1:1 basis. What methods are available for this to happen - or - what methods are available in order for the CC church to propogate? It cannot be reason, obviously because it is believed on personal faith. I suggest that the mechinism used and the only one available is forced conversion which would also include the inculcation of children.

I need to address the 'culture' remarks before they come... Culture does not have a truth value, it has a preference. Some people prefer potatoes while others rice. Neither one can be considered correct or incorrect. The same could be said for a preference for jeans and a t-shirt rather than a Sari. There is no truth value unlike religious belief which in this case is Catholicism. I should also point out that someone cannot have a non truth value belief or to put it another way... a non belief belief.

We can expect through culture that dress, food etc. would be geographic within the cultural area. Let's go back to forced conversion and child inculcation with regard to something that has a truth value. Something with a truth value is not constrained by geographic location and yet it would appear to be so, why is that? There are 1.2 billion Catholics in a worldwide population of 7 billion so we should see, if we drew a circle around 7 million people in any given place and see 1.2 million Calothics or there abouts.

The new Pope needs to address this but I bet he will not. He may be a new face but the song remains the same.

The First Amendment does not guarantee the right of freedom FROM religion...it guarantees the right of freedom OF religion. An entirely different meaning when the correct word is used.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JT:

You asked IB this question..."What have non-Catholics done exactly that interferes with your right to follow Catholic doctrine?"

Have you forgotten Obamacare and the mandates on birth control? Clearly forcing Catholics to act against the teachings of their doctrine. Some of the Federal courts are coming down on the side of the Church recently.

I consider the Obamacare issue very trivial. The truth is overall on the much bigger issue of health care access for all Americans, the American Catholic church is clearly not only pro Obamacare but pro a much more socially just non-profit centered scheme such as Canadian universal health care.

The topic is "What problems will the new Pope face?". It is not about which religion is better, any US constitutional amendments, or any healthcare systems that the Pope has no control over. Please stay on topic, thanks.

So Francis is the man who will keep spreading all the lies about a make believe man in the sky.

Fine. "Compass" to their flock. Leave everyone else alone!

If everybody else would leave us alone, that might be a lot easier, Jingthing. Interference, if that's what you'd call it, goes both ways.

What interference are you talking about? Your church has a very high international profile. They have a dreadful historical record in forcefully (putting that mildly) cramming their down their dogma (google: inquisition) and are still very active in aggressive conversion efforts. What have non-Catholics done exactly that interferes with your right to follow Catholic doctrine? Complain that your church has protected sex criminals, which it has? Seriously I really want to know about this interference you speak of. I don't think it exists.

I strongly get the feeling that you don't think non-Catholics have a right to voice strong opinions about Catholic institutional actions or Popes. If that's the case, my response would be ... too bad. The Catholic church is MASSIVELY large and powerful and yes does much good in the world and also much bad. It's leaders seem clearly interested in preaching (and more) to the entire world, not only Catholics. It is open to public criticism by everyone, Catholic and non-Catholic alike.

Yes there are some authoritarian countries with minority Catholic and/or Christian populations where these religions are repressed by the states. I'm not really talking about those cases in my query. All people of good will are obviously against repression of freedom of worship.

For someone who screams anti Semite or homophobe every chance he gets, you can't help but see the irony in this post. Well, at least The Vatican doesn't have The Bomb and an agressive military, huh? And c'mon admit it, you're so fascinated with Catholicism because of the frocks, right?

For someone who screams anti Semite or homophobe every chance he gets, you can't help but see the irony in this post. Well, at least The Vatican doesn't have The Bomb and an agressive military, huh? And c'mon admit it, you're so fascinated with Catholicism because of the frocks, right?

Post withdrawn as both LB's point and my reply are both off topic.

Edited March 18, 201313 yr by Jingthing