Thailand Is Getting A Very Bad Name

[homeownership]

Thailand is viewed by many in the West as a Paradise on Earth, its people are diverse and beautiful and the way Thai treat foreigners is regarded as enviable by many nations of the world. In all Thailand is one of the best places to visit, work and live, not to mention retire and perhaps even find someone special to share your life with.

This dollar green, gold plated reputation other countries would declare war for is being tarnished and at an exerbated rate. Not by bar girl, prostitution or even drug smuggling, but by Thailand being used as a gateway for trade, distribution and consumer centre of rare horns and tusks.

Earlier this week, I was wearing one of my other hats and met with a group of investors who have a lot of money to spend at the Landmark Hotel in London. I was there in the capacity of trying to gain investment in collaboration with a number of Thai Banks to intergrate a Thai Version of Paypal. The minute I mentioned Thailand, one of the investors asked to speak to me privately and asked that I not persue this particular avenue and instead wanted to talk about investments in Egypt instead.

He told me in "no uncertain terms" I might add, that they cannot be seen to invest in a country that is seen by so many as a gateway for Rhino Horns, Elephant Tusks to China. It affects their shareholders interests, several of which are African Governments and NGO's.

Perhaps unseen at the moment but Thailand is viewed as freely allowing this trade to participate freely akin to Pre 2001, Afghanstan was allowing Terrorists to train on its terriotory.

I saying action need to be taken to show the world that Thailand is not complicite in these dealings, left unchecked investors will be looking elsewhere and Thailand will be left wondering what has happened.

I have a very deep emotional attachment to Thailand, I consider Thailand my home and it hurts me deeply when I see people disregard out of hand, in the way it was earlier this week.

The Wild Black Rhino of West African has officially become extint, with only a handle left in captivity, there are not enough individuals of this species to have a broad enough genetic pool, to prolong the species. When they die, the species will be gone. Several other species of Rhino are expected to end this way by mid 2013.

It is illegal to import or transit horns and tusks directly in to China, under penalty of death, but there are no such quarms into Thailand (the last gateway), this is seen as a disgrace by business leaders, may of which have interests in Africa and African Oil and Gas.

Thailand cannot afford to be a country where people do not want to do business, especially on a regulation issue and lack of enforcement.

[tuky]

My God, I had no idea. Does the press know?

What does the Thailiban (as you put it) do with these rare horns and tusks? I have to admit I can't say I have ever seen a rare horn or tusk unless it is on TV, they must keep this pretty quiet.

[rak sa_ngop]

My God, I had no idea. Does the press know?

What does the Thailiban (as you put it) do with these rare horns and tusks? I have to admit I can't say I have ever seen a rare horn or tusk unless it is on TV, they must keep this pretty quiet.

I was in Nong Khai last week and walked into a shop in the covered shopping lane along the river bank.

Guess what I saw? Mounted small rhino heads with horns intact. Not sure if they were the real thing, but the man in the shop said what sounded like 'let'. (ret?).

[JurgenG]

You're not the only one concerned by this matter.

It's part of a larger problem of trade in illegal substances, endangered species, weapons ....

Everybody's help is needed.

[homeownership]

My God, I had no idea. Does the press know?

What does the Thailiban (as you put it) do with these rare horns and tusks? I have to admit I can't say I have ever seen a rare horn or tusk unless it is on TV, they must keep this pretty quiet.

Yes the press knows.

Criminal gangs smuggle them to China for use in Chinese Medicines, although there is no proven benefit. I guess in answer to your post, they dont need to keep it quiet.

Kill the last few Rhino, Elephants etc in Africa (Approx 2-4 months for the Rhinos, 2 years for the Elephants) Thailand takes the blame and China gets the gain.

Its not much of a story until it happens. When investor want to put money into a country and theres nearly 200 of them (more than the Rhinos), why should Thailand benefit, why not Burma, Malaysia, Cambodia or Vietnam, their reputations are in tact, while my home (Thailand), well !"!!!

Is seen as riotous, xxxxx house, that so expensive because the economy is wildly out of control, which has a stink of trafficking horns and husks saddled with corruption and with an inflation rate of 25%+

Its already happening, nothing we can do about it, but watch now from the sidelines. What can the Thais do in 2 months, they cant even put broadband in your condo in that timespan.

[homeownership]

My God, I had no idea. Does the press know?

What does the Thailiban (as you put it) do with these rare horns and tusks? I have to admit I can't say I have ever seen a rare horn or tusk unless it is on TV, they must keep this pretty quiet.

I was in Nong Khai last week and walked into a shop in the covered shopping lane along the river bank.

Guess what I saw? Mounted small rhino heads with horns intact. Not sure if they were the real thing, but the man in the shop said what sounded like 'let'. (ret?).

These were probably the babies the Chinese didnt want. Not economically viable.

[homeownership]

You're not the only one concerned by this matter.

It's part of a larger problem of trade in illegal substances, endangered species, weapons ....

Everybody's help is needed.

I am not a rebel rowser, but a few years ago, Thailand and China were the two games in town in the SE Asia. Boy have things changed, Burma is a democracy (never thought I would write that), Cambodia is going from strength to strengh, in fact there is even a 15 page topic on this very forum about relocating there.

Wonder why prices are going up, inflation, why is there inflation (lack of investment).

PUT UP PRICES WHILE YOU CAN AND THEN GET THE XXXX OUT OF DODGE.

[Neeranam]

I suggest writing to your local MP or newspaper. However, I doubt they care about people in Western Africa let alone some ugly animal.<br />Whatever happens is meant to happen - Thais don't have the same perversion of many foreigners to play God and believe in the theory of evolution at the same time.

[homeownership]

I suggest writing to your local MP or newspaper. However, I doubt they care about people in Western Africa let alone some ugly animal.<br />Whatever happens is meant to happen - Thais don't have the same perversion of many foreigners to play God and believe in the theory of evolution at the same time.

I am afraid theres no time for that, by July this year or sooner, the damage would have already have been done, and Thailand would have conveniently taken the blame while China takes the gain and blameslessly moves on to the next endangered species perhaps the snow leopard if there are any left.

My point isnt to ram home what damage this is doing, it is point our that the damage has been done and that Thailand has taken the blame for it and will pay the price for it. If economic disaster is meant to happen in Thailand then thats alright then is it ? Not to me its not.

What can be done to save these creatures, in truth nothing. What can be done to save Thailand reputation worldwide, I dont know, perhaps its too late. Maybe we do nothing, maybe we say nothing, lick our figures clean while we stetch out to our prisine cybernetic keyboards to debate why, should stay in such a beautiful country.

What I am saying is people are noticing things about Thailands uncosy relationship China and these are not the people you see walking down the second road scratching their balls looking for a bit of skirt.

[Neeranam]

Who is actually doing the killing? Africans, I presume. Why don't these Business leaders boycott these African nations for letting it happen? Thailand is stuck in the middle and getting a bad reputation but not responsible at all IMHO.

[homeownership]

The types of people who are buying up tracts of land in and around Bangkok are investors. They only think about money, their purpose is to make money for their backers, FULL STOP. THATS IT.

Who are these backers ???

Where do they come from ???

Why do they have so much money to spend on yet another shopping mall on Sukhamvict (spelt wrong) Road. They come from the very places, where they make a lot of money protecting the animals being hunted.

Its just economics, the Thai People selling you the latest Iphone 6 (5S), when it released in November work for companies, these companies have investors and these investors have backers. These backers will not take likely to having their business interests hurt and there will be reprisals for sure.

The Thais have to get out of the thinking that all western money comes from the husbands and boyfriends of their sisters, mothers and daughters.

[homeownership]

Who is actually doing the killing? Africans, I presume. Why don't these Business leaders boycott these African nations for letting it happen? Thailand is stuck in the middle and getting a bad reputation but not responsible at all IMHO.

Why isnt Cambodia or Malaysia getting a bad reputation ?

If you want to stop something, you need to go high up the supply chain. The Africans at the bottom, probably cant even read of write and are not consquence to me. Thailand and Thai people are of great importance. We suffer not them, because other countries wont be stuck in the middle, as they outright refuse the goods to be landed, while Thailand does.

If Thailand blocked all ivory and horn imports today, we may have a chance, but I would doubt it. By the time a ban was introduced like everywhere else, Thai people will be reading about Rhinos in books, like the DODO and African Elephants too.

Like it or not Thailand is getting the blame for this, because the people with the money are and will be tempted elsewhere (for ethical reasons).

Dont worry about it, I am just stating a fact, its too late to make a difference anywhere. I am only letting you know when the S--T hits the fan here in Thailand and investment goes to its neirbours at least you will know why.

[Bluetongue]

I think we get your point but your strategy of taking it to this forum for an answer is just wasting your time. By your own admission you are in with the big end of town doing big deals over Pay pal in some swank London hotel, why aren't you doing something about it from the top down. Most people care about wildlife but it is African Governments and Asian governments that carry the can, supported by the big companies that you rub shoulders with, dont see any point being overly strident about it on a forum where probably even knows where to buy a tusk or a horn, they dont need the horn anyway, thet've got a little blue pill.

[homeownership]

I think we get your point but your strategy of taking it to this forum for an answer is just wasting your time. By your own admission you are in with the big end of town doing big deals over Pay pal in some swank London hotel, why aren't you doing something about it from the top down. Most people care about wildlife but it is African Governments and Asian governments that carry the can, supported by the big companies that you rub shoulders with, dont see any point being overly strident about it on a forum where probably even knows where to buy a tusk or a horn, they dont need the horn anyway, thet've got a little blue pill.

Perhaps your right. I initially came on here as always to let the forum faithful know, learn and perhaps take a point of view. I did find a few reference to Elephant Tusks on the TV archives pages and others before me have sought to protect these animals.

I wanted to take a viewpoint that this time has now all but passed and that Thailand and the current economic prosperity it enjoys or not, will soon be at an end. Maybe I have let my frustrations over this matter carry my thoughts from mind to keyboard, but inevitably it is usually the Thais that get the blame for things, only this time, I genuinely feel people just wont know why.

Bangkok isnt London, New York or Paris, here is buy today and expect return tomorrow or we pull out,

What I am saying is the Thais need to be on the ball about this and you never know TV is a respected forum outlet, perhaps someone can influence policy as the Animal Rights and African Wildlife lobbies have certainly got the ear of those with money.

[Bluetongue]

The wildlife lobbies probably inadvertently fund the poachers who probably turn over most of the profits to said African governments, in the form of corrupt payments, poachers are poor people in rubber sneakers with an AK47, poaching profiteers are in suits and Gucci shoes, never set foot in the bush, welcome to the world

[homeownership]

The wildlife lobbies probably inadvertently fund the poachers who probably turn over most of the profits to said African governments, in the form of corrupt payments, poachers are poor people in rubber sneakers with an AK47, poaching profiteers are in suits and Gucci shoes, never set foot in the bush, welcome to the world

Perhaps your right on the mark with this point too. Others more financially siginificant to me dont take that view though, they are placing investing in Egypt over Thailand. So whats going on with Thailands image. This investor actually made a point of saying, dont bring up Thailand and gave the reasons why. This is highy unusual.

[MaiChai]

A lot of Thais have few ethics when it comes to making money. Also a lot of laws are not enforced when it comes to big business here. My personal view is I would abandon my home land with its proper law enforcement, ethics, well educated views on conservation and the environment, etc, to move to place like Thailand. On the face it looks like Paradise but look more closely underneath and you will see a lot of things that shock you. So are you really surprised about trafficking of endangered species through Thailand? What about over fishing of the Gulf of Thailand while we are here, highlighted on uk tv last night? Or maybe other injustices while we are here? There are many.

[TommoPhysicist]

Nobody in the real world gives a flying %$#@ about the ivory trade.

Just a few nutters ranting to each other.

Give it a rest ...... we aren't bothered.

[topt]

Who is actually doing the killing? Africans, I presume. Why don't these Business leaders boycott these African nations for letting it happen? Thailand is stuck in the middle and getting a bad reputation but not responsible at all IMHO.

Why isnt Cambodia or Malaysia getting a bad reputation ?

If you want to stop something, you need to go high up the supply chain. The Africans at the bottom, probably cant even read of write and are not consquence to me. Thailand and Thai people are of great importance. We suffer not them, because other countries wont be stuck in the middle, as they outright refuse the goods to be landed, while Thailand does.

If Thailand blocked all ivory and horn imports today, we may have a chance, but I would doubt it. By the time a ban was introduced like everywhere else, Thai people will be reading about Rhinos in books, like the DODO and African Elephants too.

Like it or not Thailand is getting the blame for this, because the people with the money are and will be tempted elsewhere (for ethical reasons).

Dont worry about it, I am just stating a fact, its too late to make a difference anywhere. I am only letting you know when the S--T hits the fan here in Thailand and investment goes to its neirbours at least you will know why.

As others have suggested I think you are being (deliberately?) naive if you really think this is going to be one of the main reasons if/when There are so many other reasons - often argued about here on TV. I also do not see any figures for inward investment dropping - if anything it had been increasing - just look at the SET.

As to your investor prefering Egypt at the moment....... Each to their own

[MrWorldwide]

A lot of Thais have few ethics when it comes to making money. Also a lot of laws are not enforced when it comes to big business here. My personal view is I would abandon my home land with its proper law enforcement, ethics, well educated views on conservation and the environment, etc, to move to place like Thailand. On the face it looks like Paradise but look more closely underneath and you will see a lot of things that shock you. So are you really surprised about trafficking of endangered species through Thailand? What about over fishing of the Gulf of Thailand while we are here, highlighted on uk tv last night? Or maybe other injustices while we are here? There are many.

Oh, &lt;deleted&gt; - don't you have an email to send to Stickman ? I'd get cracking - he is supposed to publish his weekly rant by 6pm Thailand time.

Thailand, like many of its Asian neighbours, has problems with their environmental record. Take a trip to Malaysia if you want to see serious environmental vandalism - mile after mile of a hideous palm oil monoculture in place of the forest which once stood on that land. I dont blame your average Malay for that, nor do I make sweeping generalisations like 'few Malaysians have ethics when it comes to making money'. Its all about education, but that's a topic for another thread (or 50 ..).

[krisb]

Ok firstly, I find it hard to believe anyone seriously wanting to invest money in such a politically unstable country as Egypt with its sectarian violence, terrorist attacks. Its an unstable country.

Secondly, anyone with large amounts of money to invest wouldnt choose not to invest in a country, in this case Thailand, simply because it is a 'gateway' for tusks into another country. Plenty are investing money in China and they are the culprits of a lot of animal cruelty.

I dont want to sound rude op, but your story seems quite odd balled.

[JLCrab]

Just trying to connect the dots here:

Even with all the media savvy $ billionaires right here in Thailand, the Thai banks, noting that there was a credible plan for their involvement in a PayPal knock-off here in Thailand, decided, rather than fund the project themselves, to send the OP to London to raise investment money from some UK high rollers who expressed displeasure with Thailand's involvement in the endangered species animal trade and said that they would prefer to invest in Egypt?

[NewlyMintedThai]

Don't tell me...another "final nail in the coffin" for Thai tourism?

LOL.

[simple1]

OP: I assume you signed mutual NDAs with your alleged Thai banking partners.

[JLCrab]

Thai companies these days are not so much looking for investors in Europe they are buying companies in Europe. Double A Paper bought a pulp mill in France and Central Retail Group bought the 150-year old La Rinascente department store chain in Italy including their store in Hong Kong.

[DP25]

Ok firstly, I find it hard to believe anyone seriously wanting to invest money in such a politically unstable country as Egypt with its sectarian violence, terrorist attacks. Its an unstable country.

Secondly, anyone with large amounts of money to invest wouldnt choose not to invest in a country, in this case Thailand, simply because it is a 'gateway' for tusks into another country. Plenty are investing money in China and they are the culprits of a lot of animal cruelty.

I dont want to sound rude op, but your story seems quite odd balled.

The story sounds fictional to me, something you might make up as an excuse to make a post about animal rights

[homeownership]

Ok firstly, I find it hard to believe anyone seriously wanting to invest money in such a politically unstable country as Egypt with its sectarian violence, terrorist attacks. Its an unstable country.

Secondly, anyone with large amounts of money to invest wouldnt choose not to invest in a country, in this case Thailand, simply because it is a 'gateway' for tusks into another country. Plenty are investing money in China and they are the culprits of a lot of animal cruelty.

I dont want to sound rude op, but your story seems quite odd balled.

The story sounds fictional to me, something you might make up as an excuse to make a post about animal rights

I remember in 2005 going to a forum (not TV) and saying that Credit Default Swaps were being misold and abused, I knew this because I contacts that were doing this very thing. In the end I was receiving so much flack from people saying "fantasist, fictional, troll, etc etc), that I stopped talking about it and went back to talking crap just like everyone was at the time. A couple of years later we had the biggest financial crash of our lifetime, trillions have been lost and billion saddles to national governments. It made me laugh at the time to myself when I read a post saying "why didnt anyone tell us about it, why were we not told".

For the sake of argument, because from what posts I have read on here the overwhelming majority of people seem pretty switched on and "my kind of people", so heres the deal.

If I am a liar and everything I have said is fictional, then whats the harm.

Now here the real kick in the head, what if what I have said is the truth and inward investment does dry out. Perhaps you would do me the honor just saying "homeownership was right, perhaps maybe we could have done something about it, who knows".

You have my assurance either way, I wont raise the subject again. For those who were unsure what the subject was, I was referring to the fact that "THAILAND IS GETTING A VERY BAD NAME, WITH INVESTORS". Partly because of their stance on the husk and ivory trade in many countries that actually put up some of the money to the investors.

This was a rant about animal rights to a degree, but more about the international standing of a country I view as home.

Thats it folks, wont be raised again.

[wellred]

Commendable to raise this point here and I'm sure most agree with you but I think the damage is done as far as hammering down on illegal trade is concerned.

I'd like to see some sort of effort put into saving the dying coral in the south of Thailand. I saw something on tv a while back where in the Maldives a program has been set up where tourists can donate a bit of money to get some sort of cage welded which is somehow weaved in with live coral. This helps new coral to grow and protects the ground underneath. I think it was Indian Ocean. Seems like a good thing to be raising awareness off as I don't think there are many spots left in the south where coral is thriving.

[krisb]

Ok, fair enough. Its not the fact you raised the issue of animal tusks, of which I wasnt aware of and Im sure many others also have never heard of. So I must say thanks for raising this issue. Thailand has a much bigger 'gateway' problem(s) namely heroin, trafficking people also comes to mind.

My point is, every country in the world has an underbelly of some sort. Therefore these investors you mention could cross every country off their list for various reasons, including Egypt. I mean wouldnt womens rites be higher on the list over animal tusks from a moral point of view?

Perhaps their should be a topic started on these types of issues in Thailand to raise awareness?

[homeownership]

Commendable to raise this point here and I'm sure most agree with you but I think the damage is done as far as hammering down on illegal trade is concerned. I'd like to see some sort of effort put into saving the dying coral in the south of Thailand. I saw something on tv a while back where in the Maldives a program has been set up where tourists can donate a bit of money to get some sort of cage welded which is somehow weaved in with live coral. This helps new coral to grow and protects the ground underneath. I think it was Indian Ocean. Seems like a good thing to be raising awareness off as I don't think there are many spots left in the south where coral is thriving.

Some people see Thailand as a joke, like some modern day colony. I have some people walk around Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Krabi, Phuket and Bangkok like they can buy anything and everyone.

What really gets under my skin, is I fell in love with Thailand 12 years ago and consider this my home, I love its people, its quirky ways of doing the simplest things as complicated as possible. I like the people on Thai Visa, because although they come from all over the place, we all have one thing in common, this is our home and for the most part we want to do right by it.

Without sounding patronising, I dont meet that many people in my line of work that actually give a s--t about anything but money. They just do what they want. Its nice to come on here and let of a little steam and talk about way I think we can help improve our home (Thailand), perhaps I have gone about it in the best possible way, I can only go about it my way.

When I looked at the different topics in which to post, this seemed pretty general.

We are uniquely placed to offer a view that perhaps the Thais havent considered, thats why if it the international standing of my countries reputation, then I am going to speak out. The poster above has chosen to speak out about coral degradation, which as a country that relies of tourism, it might not be a bad idea to implement some of the ideas he has raised.

My point is this, as a internet forum, which brings together a common interest, Thailand. Shouldnt every subject be debated, providing of course it does not cause racial, polical or Les Majest offence.