Thai Soldier Tells Bangkok Court Of ' Men In Black'

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

it's so superficial and simple minded to think a shirt means anything.

So the bad guys throw on a special shirt so they can be identified?

Why not wear some camouflage?

[Pimay1]

it's so superficial and simple minded to think a shirt means anything.

So the bad guys throw on a special shirt so they can be identified?

Why not wear some camouflage?

I suspect it was a Rambo thing.

[OzMick]

it's so superficial and simple minded to think a shirt means anything.

So the bad guys throw on a special shirt so they can be identified?

Why not wear some camouflage?

The answer is quite simple, it was to avoid being shot by your mates with a licence to kill. Black is quite a good camouflage while not appearing "military" and IMHO far safer than red at that time.

[billd766]

We look forward to the forum red apologists putting a spin on this story.

Fake blackshirts will be a good one.

Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he, after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in the Wat.

On a serious note, there have been numerous reports on this subject, has this soldiers testimony been received before? I have not seen it mentioned, in fact the army seemingly have gone to lengths to prevent its personnel taking part in investigations into events, so why has this soldier now come out and testified?

Sigh. Do you have ANY proof at all that this soldier and his mates did exactly what you say they did?

Any PROVABLE eveidence at all because if you do please publish it and the whole of PTP will be on your side and so will I and many others.

On the other hand if you DON'T have any proof are you calling this soldier a liar? After all he was supposedly there on the scene at the time.

Were you there at that time and place?

If you were and saw what happened please accept my sincere apologies, however, if you weren't then please stop telling lies.

I sure do agree with your sentiment, but the Thais took the proverb of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" and changed it to "The Thai Who Uttered". They pretty much have shot themselves in the foot when it comes to expecting people to believe them on the basis of what they say and that alone. I don't know when they are lying or telling the truth. It is as simple as that. Calling any Thai a liar is now fair game, and anyone who has been here long enough knows that flat out lying is part of their chemistry. Calling a Thai a liar, or even thinking it, and the fact that they are a Thai is all the proof I need, until proven otherwise. It's much safer that way for those who know better.

Well unless smutcakes is Thai you may expect him to lie but most of the Thais I know don't always lie.

So many of his posts are allegation but he never comes back with proof or evidence of what he says so in this case I would tend to believe the soldier.

Also I notice he hasn't replied yet.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

it's so superficial and simple minded to think a shirt means anything.

So the bad guys throw on a special shirt so they can be identified?

Why not wear some camouflage?

The answer is quite simple, it was to avoid being shot by your mates with a licence to kill. Black is quite a good camouflage while not appearing "military" and IMHO far safer than red at that time.

well maybe but very speculative. There are other ways to be identified like hats, radio contact, weapons, armbands etc. and just how many people were they shooting and how many "men in black" guys were shooting at people?

It's possible explanation but establishing a high probability? seems a reach at best.

Even Ninja's alter their clothes for the situation. Black is good in pitch dark conditions.

[OzMick]

it's so superficial and simple minded to think a shirt means anything.

So the bad guys throw on a special shirt so they can be identified?

Why not wear some camouflage?

The answer is quite simple, it was to avoid being shot by your mates with a licence to kill. Black is quite a good camouflage while not appearing "military" and IMHO far safer than red at that time.

well maybe but very speculative. There are other ways to be identified like hats, radio contact, weapons, armbands etc. and just how many people were they shooting and how many "men in black" guys were shooting at people?

It's possible explanation but establishing a high probability? seems a reach at best.

Even Ninja's alter their clothes for the situation. Black is good in pitch dark conditions.

Black is also good in broad daylight - ask the Viet Cong or anybody that fought against them.

It doesn't take many people to kick off a fire-fight and then leave the larger numbers to it. Or to ensure the casualties are in the desired ratio. What explanation do you have for their role?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

it's so superficial and simple minded to think a shirt means anything.

So the bad guys throw on a special shirt so they can be identified?

Why not wear some camouflage?

The answer is quite simple, it was to avoid being shot by your mates with a licence to kill. Black is quite a good camouflage while not appearing "military" and IMHO far safer than red at that time.

well maybe but very speculative. There are other ways to be identified like hats, radio contact, weapons, armbands etc. and just how many people were they shooting and how many "men in black" guys were shooting at people?

It's possible explanation but establishing a high probability? seems a reach at best.

Even Ninja's alter their clothes for the situation. Black is good in pitch dark conditions.

Black is also good in broad daylight - ask the Viet Cong or anybody that fought against them.

It doesn't take many people to kick off a fire-fight and then leave the larger numbers to it. Or to ensure the casualties are in the desired ratio. What explanation do you have for their role?

I have no real theory on their role. I just think its very convenient that the "bad" guys have a special uniform.

I think the simplicity and symbolism plays well in the villages

[waza]

If I remember correctly there was a photo on another subject on this site of exactly the incident described by the officer.

That is 2 black shirts hiding behind a sky train pillar and shooting into the temple.

Perhaps someone who is good at that sort of thing could hunt it down and post it again

Here you go...........

"Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he, after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in the Wat" smutcakes

A lot of the youtube videos have been deleted I dont know why..............

Edited March 8, 2013 by waza

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

As the photos show they are not really black shirts but black hoods to conceal their identity.

That makes a lot of sense. easy to put on to give them anonymity and then take off to blend in with other soldiers.

[mistitikimikis]

The origing of the photos is "thaipoliticalprisoners in wordpress" which has been blocked in the mean time

[OzMick]

As the photos show they are not really black shirts but black hoods to conceal their identity.

That makes a lot of sense. easy to put on to give them anonymity and then take off to blend in with other soldiers.

But they didn't blend in with other soldiers, they walked through the red shirts ranks with no impediment, or even questioning looks, to pose with their commander Seh Daeng.

[hellodolly]

We look forward to the forum red apologists putting a spin on this story.

Fake blackshirts will be a good one.

Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he, after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in the Wat.

On a serious note, there have been numerous reports on this subject, has this soldiers testimony been received before? I have not seen it mentioned, in fact the army seemingly have gone to lengths to prevent its personnel taking part in investigations into events, so why has this soldier now come out and testified?

Kinda got lost in your rhetoric.

First you say

"Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he,

after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in

the Wat. "

Then you say

"On a serious note"

Was

"Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he,

after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in

the Wat. "

a joke

[bigbamboo]

Again amazing that I estimate to hear in general more negative comments about "our fugitive" (NOT my favorite by the way) than about Abhisit and his partner Suthep ("I don't respect farangs")

Is that really so surprising?

Are Abhisit or Suthep convicted crims on the run trying to run this country from the other side of the world?

Me I respect good people regardless of race.

Sorry mods off topic again.

Why shouldn't Suthep say he doesn't respect farangs?

I suspect the feeling is mutual. I can't imagine many farangs respect Thai politicians.

[jonclark]

If I remember correctly there was a photo on another subject on this site of exactly the incident described by the officer.

That is 2 black shirts hiding behind a sky train pillar and shooting into the temple.

Perhaps someone who is good at that sort of thing could hunt it down and post it again

Here you go...........

Black shirt snipers at temple.jpg 561584_437038879668604_1482139738_n.jpg

Blackshirts BTS.jpg

"Well hes not exactly going to say there were no enemy there was he, after all he and his mates had just mowed down 6 unarmed civilians in the Wat" smutcakes

A lot of the youtube videos have been deleted I dont know why..............

I am fairly sure that the black shirts at BTS (main picture) is in fact the army if memory serves me right

[SchuetzRob]

Fake red shirts burning,fake black shirts shooting......-real blood in the temple,6 real nurses corpses.

“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”

― Abraham Lincoln

you have forgotten to mention fake red shirts storming chulalongkorn hospital. quoting honest abe does not automatically turn your opinion into the gospel truth.

[TPI]

'Black Shirts' did exist. We saw them on video. We saw them shoot the soldier pulled down from that truck.

Given the tensions and chaos caused by the red shorts and their kind, I still maintain the govt. and army were very restrained.

Dragging it out for political points is selfish and doesn't heal any wounds. No senior army officials will be punished. The aim is only to discredit Abshit and his government. Focus attention on genuinely unifying the country instead of these smoke and mirrors.

It's amazing how many people have opinions about the "troubles" without even seeing the nightly TV reporting while it was going on!

You would have to be blind to deny the "men in black", it was obvious at the time that they appeared to be in cahoots with the demonstrators...what boggled me was how the Army allowed these guys to wander around armed? They had the snipers, they had just cause, it appeared that it was only the restraint of the Army and the government that stopped a blood bath! IMHO

[rbrooks]

He was probably referring to Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones in "Men in Black" hiding behind the Skytrain pillar. I guess Will Smith forgot to zap the Army LT into erasing his memory of the episode.

[rubl]

The army went on their legitimate business and has been very frequently filmed and put in pictures. The mysterious Men-in-black woke up in the night to do whatever they wanted to do. No film, no photo's. Therefor is clear and obvious that the army did something wrong and the MiB didn't exist.

I had a discussion on this with our dear cuddly mutt two weeks ago. Never got an answer on my last reply. Here for all to judge:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/620820-inquest-inclusive-on-who-fired-fatal-shot-in-dusit-zoo-workers-death-2010-political-violence/page-2#entry6139638

[waza]

The army went on their legitimate business and has been very frequently filmed and put in pictures. The mysterious Men-in-black woke up in the night to do whatever they wanted to do. No film, no photo's. Therefor is clear and obvious that the army did something wrong and the MiB didn't exist.

I had a discussion on this with our dear cuddly mutt two weeks ago. Never got an answer on my last reply. Here for all to judge:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/620820-inquest-inclusive-on-who-fired-fatal-shot-in-dusit-zoo-workers-death-2010-political-violence/page-2#entry6139638

I remember there was video on youtube of the men in black climbing up the BTS supports ect ect but it has all been removed.

http://youtu.be/mnE56Id7W2w

Edited March 8, 2013 by waza

[waza]

[Curt1591]

"He went on to say that another set of troops joined to provide protection in the centre, from the BTS track."

But, when forensics showed that the shots were fired from the BTS track, we were told that there were no soldiers on the track that night.

'Black Shirts' did exist. We saw them on video. We saw them shoot the soldier pulled down from that truck.

Given the tensions and chaos caused by the red shorts and their kind, I still maintain the govt. and army were very restrained.

Dragging it out for political points is selfish and doesn't heal any wounds. No senior army officials will be punished. The aim is only to discredit Abshit and his government. Focus attention on genuinely unifying the country instead of these smoke and mirrors.

What people don't seem to consider is why there were 'Black shirts'.

They didn't do the Red shirt side any favors and they certainly didn't advance the Army's position.

Meaning, if logic has any bearing, the black shirts were serving another purpose and a very limited number of people gained from what they did.

The obvious person to gain any political points from their activties was a fellow hiding outside the country - ??? Hired Thugs ???

The men in black’s role was to instigate violence in order for the army to come out (with guns). They hide among red shirts, shoot at security forces and then run away.

When the security forces return fire Thaksin can say: "Trigger happy army kills innocent peaceful protestors" Thaksin's strategy of course is very risky because his "own" people might get shot....but….

"Men in Black"

Is this some sort of uniform? In an urban setting, and wanting to blend in, why would one wear black? I guess it makes it easier to identify the players ....

[smutcakes]

Ah yes these mythicaly highly trained and armed MIB that killed or injured exactly how many people??? about zero.

[longway]

^ Possibly up to 80+. That's why their role needs to be investigated.

[Curt1591]

^ Possibly up to 80+. That's why their role needs to be investigated.

I guess we can now make that "Possibly up to 74+", since the six attributed to the MIBs, who were shot at the wat, now seem to have been shot by soldiers.

Wait a minute! Just maybe, since soldiers apparently were on those tracks that night, it was probably bullets that the MIB were shooting at said soldiers that ricocheted and hit the victims in the Wat.

Of course, that's it; that's what happened!

My mistake; I guess we're back at 80+ ....

[gl555]

Ah yes these mythicaly highly trained and armed MIB that killed or injured exactly how many people??? about zero.

They were there, they were armed, they fired at the soldiers. Whether they were highly trained or not is speculative. You however are the typical Red apologist. The pictures are there and so are the witnesses and yet your red tinted glasses refuse to let you believe they exist. Or worse, perhaps you do believe they exist but you don't care, you just want to deny their existence because they being there just doesn't fit the red shirt profile of being peace loving demonstrators. Boo F ing hoo.

[smutcakes]

Ah yes these mythicaly highly trained and armed MIB that killed or injured exactly how many people??? about zero.

They were there, they were armed, they fired at the soldiers. Whether they were highly trained or not is speculative. You however are the typical Red apologist. The pictures are there and so are the witnesses and yet your red tinted glasses refuse to let you believe they exist. Or worse, perhaps you do believe they exist but you don't care, you just want to deny their existence because they being there just doesn't fit the red shirt profile of being peace loving demonstrators. Boo F ing hoo.

I am not denying there were armed men in black, i am questioning to what extent/numbers they were there or even who they were. Have you read all the reports and witness testimony of the various incidents? Or do you only believe the witness testimony which you like? There is quite a bit of witness testimony/reports etc which indicate the armed forces shot unarmed civilians, but i suppose you don't read/believe those reports.

[jbrain]

Ah yes these mythicaly highly trained and armed MIB that killed or injured exactly how many people??? about zero.

They were there, they were armed, they fired at the soldiers. Whether they were highly trained or not is speculative. You however are the typical Red apologist. The pictures are there and so are the witnesses and yet your red tinted glasses refuse to let you believe they exist. Or worse, perhaps you do believe they exist but you don't care, you just want to deny their existence because they being there just doesn't fit the red shirt profile of being peace loving demonstrators. Boo F ing hoo.

I am not denying there were armed men in black, i am questioning to what extent/numbers they were there or even who they were. Have you read all the reports and witness testimony of the various incidents? Or do you only believe the witness testimony which you like? There is quite a bit of witness testimony/reports etc which indicate the armed forces shot unarmed civilians, but i suppose you don't read/believe those reports.

I think it's not so difficult to figure out who those MIB in fact were.

They were soldiers who worked for Saeh Deng, and this also explains why the temple people were shot using the same ammunition the army used.

[DiamondKing]

We look forward to the forum red apologists putting a spin on this story.

Fake blackshirts will be a good one.

Yeah its called Total BS

So the guy saw these 2 imaginary guys and he has a whole army behind him and they just ran off in the direction of LOL

sounds like a bunch of <deleted> to me

[Curt1591]

I think it's not so difficult to figure out who those MIB in fact were.

They were soldiers who worked for Saeh Deng, and this also explains why the temple people were shot using the same ammunition the army used

Wow, those MIBs are mighty crafty, using military ammunition to shoot the people in the temple. That way, people would think that it was the soldiers who shot those people.The big question, then, is why don't they wear military outfits?

Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunand, Thailand's top forensics expert, and a person who sides with no one, concluded that the shots that killed the people in the wat were fired from the BTS tracks. Previously, the then government, explained that away by insisting that there were no soldiers on the tracks that night. Reading the article, written to support the MIB theory, the army witness stated that it was the army that occupied the tracks.

Now, because we have seen pictures of people wearing black, in the crowd with red shirted people, you think it should be obvious to anyone who they are and what they did. But, after reading this article, assuming you did read it, you still insist it was them nasty MIBs that shot those people?

Edited March 9, 2013 by PoorSucker
Removed altered quote

[Buchholz]

Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunand, Thailand's top forensics expert, and a person who sides with no one, concluded

.

Funny how the same Dr. Pornthip can vacillate between being referred to Thailand's top pathologist to Thailand's biggest fool, over her insistence on the reliability of GT200 bomb detector, depending on how she is needed to be portrayed by a particular side on a particular issue.

.