Atm Fraud - Lawyers

[cup-O-coffee]

Sorry to hear of your loss. Simply open two accounts or more. Put most of your cash in one account and arrange an automatic deposit from the big one to the other one/s on a daily or weekly basis. Do not have any bank cards for the big one and there you go. You may also want to "lose" your card (slice & flush) every 6 months and get a new one, as well as make sure your firewalls are up and you have an HTTPS when doing online banking, as well as change your password monthly or every 90 days. Hope this helps.

[AloisAmrein]

Do not use ATM's. Withdraw money from your bank account or use TC's. ATM's are more and more unsafe due to skimming, not only in Thailand, also in some countries in Europe. Even in Europe some banks try to decline their responsibility and customers have problems to get back the money. So the best is to boycott ATM's until the banks provide a truely save system. ATM's were introduced to reduce staff costs in the banks, so it is their responsibility to provide a save system.

[scorecard]

1. The normal daily withdrawal via ATM is 50,000 baht - this is not the US or USA with only a small daily limit as the norm.

2. Although police may get a photo they are not likely to be able to do much beyond that. In our case of a withdrawal in Chiang Mai "looks like a hill-tribe person".

3. A normal ATM card with mag tape is not going to be copied in your pocket.

4. Have you used that card for any thing other than ATM use? Skimmers are found on ATM's but it is not as common these days as most machines are protected and inspected often. But always best to use in or outside bank for even less chance. And always try to cover fingers when putting in PIN. It won't prevent a keyboard tap but will work for most camera or personal observation. Also good to change often (you can easily do at the ATM).

5. Do not believe lawyer would be worth the cost - but I would continue to try and convince account holding bank to make good if they did not try to provide a chip type ATM card for your account (which can prevent such skimmers and which Bangkok Bank has available). If they had offered this and your chose not to use suspect you would have a hard time even with a lawyer.

It is a real pain and often a shock that banks here do not offer the protection we may have believed. But in fact most of us have never had this happen and probably will not.

Good article on how to protect your credit cards while they are in your pocket

http://blog.unibulmerchantservices.com/how-criminals-can-steal-your-credit-card-without-ever-touching-it/

Never let the card out of your sight when paying for goods, a tactic is the take it out the back and copy your details

And in Thailand merchants etc., are forbidden by Bank of Thailand regulations from recording your name, card # etc., in any type of record whether it be when the card is wiped to make the transacton or in any other form or record.

But.........

[FolkGuitar]

It's ridiculously easy these days for a crook to buy a hand-held scanner and a card maker. Both can be had over the Internet for under $300 USD. Add in a blank supply of cards, and a gang can score thousands per day easily with little risk of getting caught. But not if they can't read your cards.

There isn't much you can do to protect yourself at the ATM. Scanners can be so unobtrusive that only ATM tech people would recognize them. So make your transactions INSIDE the bank at the teller's window. A bit of a bother, but worth it in the long run, especially in Thailand.

But to defend against the hand-held scanners that are becoming the biggest threat these days, you can purchase plastic guards the thickness of a credit card, that you put inside your wallet. If you place one on each side of your card stack, the cards can NOT be read. But be advised... there are protectors that work and protectors that don't work (another scam in action) so be sure to test them. We bought some at an airport travel shop that look like larger bank notes and slid into a billfold like a dollar bill, so when you fold your wallet closed, it sandwiches everything inside. We bought others that look just like credit cards to fit into the card cases in other wallet styles. Now we have them covering out passports too, just to be a bit safer. When we buy them, we always test them with our train passes. If the turnstyle can't read the pass, we figure we're covered. Take it off and go through the wicket. These things are cheap protection that, when they work, are worth much more than they cost. I'm so paranoid that I use both the big banknote one AND the smaller credit card covers inside my wallet. They don't take up much room, and my future is worth the extra care.

[louse1953]

Hello all.

Unfortunately I've had my bank account drained via an ATM, about 31k Baht.

I transferred some money and took out 1 thousand baht at a Bangkok Bank ATM in airport plaza. and I had 31k left in the bank. The next day I went to ATM and I had 240 baht left, oh dear. So I took my passbook to be updated and saw that someone had withdrawn all of my money. So my wife and I went to the Bangkok Bank Airport Plaza branch (as it was a Sunday) and asked what had happened. Their response in a round about way was that my wife had taken my ATM card out of my wallet, ran to the ATM, withdrew all the cash and put my ATM card back in wallet without me knowing. I told them that we had been together all the time since I last used the ATM. They told us it was impossible that someone could do it without my ATM card and my PIN number - great help they were.

So we went to the police, they suspect a card scanner in the ATM I used and they gave us a police report and sent us back to my branch in Sanpakoy. The Sanpakoy branch were quite helpful and made some phone calls and found out that the ATM used to withdraw all my cash is in Bangkok. The bank then sent us back to the police with the ATM number for them to investigate further as the ATM isn't a Bangkok Bank ATM.

So the police have said that they will look at the camera on that ATM and let us know. No guarantees of me getting my money back as it depends on the quality of the camera and if they can catch the person.

Has anyone else had any experience of this here in Thailand? And can anyone recommend a decent lawyer and their cost? As I feel that this is Bangkok Bank's responsibility as it was their ATM that had been scammed and I'd like to know my chances of getting my money back.

Thanks for your help!

[louse1953]

I thought most atm dispensers had daily limits of how much can be withdrawn.; and 31k bht to withdraw in a uk cash machine woud need to be over at least 2 days; is that correct.

You can use card twice if your quick.

If a card skimmer is suspected, did you go back to atm; ask the bank staff to check it.

I use the atm as infrequently as possible, and only in emergency if the bank itself is shut as I am paranoid about fraud like this...but its true PIN numbers are irrevelent to the criminals, they can read them easily.

[jacko45k]

Why are you wasting time with the police? The bank is responsible to you if they allowed funds to be withdrawn from your account by anybody but you. These perps stole money from your bank. The bank should have immediately sought cooperation from the bank owning the ATM to recover video of tthe illicit transaction. Then it is for your bank to pursue the perps via the police. Have you no evidence of being somewhere else other than at the ATM at the time of the withdrawal? What about your cell phone tracking? My gosh, this is not rocket science, just common sense.

And this is not the USA or the west.........quite often in Thailand, when things go wrong, and you appear to be complaining or criticizing, the smile fades.

You tend to be responsible for your own problems here and can't blame the government.

Edited March 17, 2013 by jacko45k

[jaiyen]

For all the people who are so worried about getting ripped off using their cards, why not use CASH to buy things and got to the counter inside the bank to withdraw money from your account. No card is needed. Never had a problem. If I draw a large amount I have to show my passport and Visa card to the Manager. The old fashioned ways are sometimes the best !

[nikster]

"The bank then sent us back to the police with the ATM number for them to investigate further as the ATM isn't a Bangkok Bank ATM."

"I feel that this is Bangkok Bank's responsibility as it was their ATM that had been scammed"

????????

Accounts linked to ATM cards are best kept with very small balances to minimize any possible losses, particularly since few people read/understand what their contract with the bank says about who is responsible for losses under the various possible situations of loss.

Sometimes these problems here are not a card scanner but a bank employee.

Anyway, you might benefit from working this further with your bank and possibly the police before you try to get a lawyer.

>

>I use an atm alot to draw for my daily expences . But I have two accounts I keep the bulk of my money in the account that does not have an atm card and transfer it at the bank. Your atm card could have been scaned about anywhere I have also read where there are devices now that can read the card while its still in your wallet so whats safe anymore who knows ....

>

Excellent responses.

YES, portable scanners are now small enough to be in a briefcase and can scan from many feet away. The best protection is to keep very little in an ATM machine. Much banking can now be done via the internet. NEED MONEY - use a computer to transfer and an ATM to put it in hand..

And though it is common sense -- ONLY use YOUR OWN computer for internet banking. NEVER use internet cafe's, work computers, libraries, schools and pretty much anything else that isn't kept with you at all times.

...and make sure you don't surf porn sites with said computer either.

Better still dont ise your computer at all, I only use my mobile phone. Scb online banking is pretty secure that way, and the web interface for mobile is very fast and eficcient too as it skips all the graphics / flahs bells and whistles. Its basically text based.

Scb banking has a otp protection for transactions so its pretty good.

Now going to request a chip based atm card for my bkk bank account...

[hhfarang]

I thought most atm dispensers had daily limits of how much can be withdrawn.; and 31k bht to withdraw in a uk cash machine woud need to be over at least 2 days; is that correct.

If a card skimmer is suspected, did you go back to atm; ask the bank staff to check it.

I use the atm as infrequently as possible, and only in emergency if the bank itself is shut as I am paranoid about fraud like this...but its true PIN numbers are irrevelent to the criminals, they can read them easily.

Most ATM's I've used here over the past 9 years allow 40k baht per day. Transaction limit is 20k, 2 transactions allowed per day.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Different Thai bank ATM machines may have different limits on the number of bills they can dispense in any one withdrawal. But 40 bills per transaction is probably a common amount. AEON ATMS, on the other hand, can dispense much larger amounts per withdrawal, 60 bills or more.

However, that's only a physical, mechanical limit of the ATM machine per withdrawal.

The card holder's own bank account will have a total daily ATM cash withdrawal limit that's entirely different. With BKK Bank, for example, you cannot set their debit card for any lower daily ATM withdrawal limit than 50,000 baht per day. Again, different banks will have different policies and limit options about that.

So, if someone went to an ATM machine that could dispense a maximum of 40 bills per withdrawal, but their account had a total daily ATM withdrawal limit of 200,000 baht, then they'd be able to stand at that ATM and make five back-to-back ATM withdrawals of 40,000 baht each before the daily limit on their account would be reached.

I can't recall, off the top of my head, whether the banks' daily ATM withdrawal limits operate on a calendar day basis or on an any 24 hour period basis.

Edited March 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

I have seen adverts of Thai banks' new cards, and all of them seem to have chips on them. When will they start rolling out chip ATM's? Chips are a nightmare for skimmers, since the chip can not be copied, and the card does not go far enough inside the ATM for the magstripe to be copied either. Quite secure for the cardholder, imho.

The only way to "skim" a chip card is to somehow obtain the PIN and then steal the original card...

My Bangkok Bank card has a chip. As do all my other cards (Australian, NZ, European). However these cards still have magnetic strips as "backup" and many ATMs read the magnetic strip not the chip.

Apparently the main reason is that the US is behind the game and has magnetic cards in general use and hardly any chip cards which means ATMs worldwide must still accept magnetic strips (although in Europe they are being phased out now I believe).

So regardless whether it has a chip, the magnetic strip can still be skimmed.

[Channa]

I use an atm alot to draw for my daily expences . But I have two accounts I keep the bulk of my money in the account that does not have an atm card and transfer it at the bank. Your atm card could have been scaned about anywhere I have also read where there are devices now that can read the card while its still in your wallet so whats safe anymore who knows ....

If this is true we have reached the days of x-ray vision, so what else are they looking at and, where do we buy into such equipment because most will want one !

This is a link to an article explaining exactly how this is done. Metallic mesh wallets are available to prevent this.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/01/30/hackers-demo-shows-how-easily-credit-cards-can-be-read-through-clothes-and-wallets/

[Phronesis]

The only viable solution to get your money back is for you and your wife to start your own ATM skimming venture.

There is obviously no threat from police or investigation by the banks here in Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My Bangkok Bank card has a chip. As do all my other cards (Australian, NZ, European). However these cards still have magnetic strips as "backup" and many ATMs read the magnetic strip not the chip.

Apparently the main reason is that the US is behind the game and has magnetic cards in general use and hardly any chip cards which means ATMs worldwide must still accept magnetic strips (although in Europe they are being phased out now I believe).

So regardless whether it has a chip, the magnetic strip can still be skimmed.

Yes, the whole issue of magnetic strip cards vs. chip and PIN cards vs chip and signature cards is a confusing one...

There's a long Wiki page that explains about all that, and how different approaches are used in different countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV

Here's one highlight:

Chip and PIN vs. Chip and signature

According to issuer preference, some EMV cards are "chip and PIN" cards that require the customer to supply a 4-to-6 digit personal identification number (PIN) when making a purchase at PIN-capable terminals. The chips in

these cards feature "PIN" at the top of the list of possible cardholder

verification methods (CVM), but with a fallback option to signature (or

even no verification at unattended terminals).

Other EMV cards are either signature-only or prefer signature over

PIN in their CVM list (i.e., signature at the POS, but PIN at unattended

terminals or ATMs). These are often called "chip and signature" cards.^[5]

Signature-only cards will not work in POS that allow no CVM other than PIN, such as some unattended ticket kiosks in Europe,^[5]

whereas signature-preferring cards might work. Attended POS which are

staffed by merchant personnel are required by the credit card agreement

to accept magnetic stripe cards, as well as chip and signature cards.^[5]

Chip and PIN cards have not been adopted in the US as of 2012 for a

variety of reasons, including lack of PIN management features in ATM

machines.^[5]

As of 2012, chip and signature cards are more common in the US,

Australia, New Zealand and some European countries (such as Germany and

Austria), whereas chip and PIN cards are more common in other European

countries (e.g., the UK, Ireland, France and the Netherlands) as well as

in Canada.^[5]

Edited March 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[tolsti]

A number of my work colleagues, both Thai and other nationalities, lost a considerate amount of money about 2 months ago with the BKK bank cards being skimmed.

The branch where they all held their accounts agreed to issue all concerned with a new BKK bank card which is secured by chip and pin. This was free of charge providing people approached them within a certain timeframe .

The only problem was that they only work in BKK bank ATMs......

I changed to K Bank with their instant SMS service a while ago, given that the usual withdrawal attempt Is a low value 'tester' you could get your account blocked before any real damage.

Yes, that's the downside with the BKK Bank microchip ATM cards -- totally incompatible with all other Thai bank ATMs, and also incompatible with ATMs in many locations outside Thailand.

But if one only ever needs or expects to use the card in BKK Bank ATMs, then from a security standpoint, that's the way to go.

As an aside, BKK Bank has a variety of notification options, particularly for things like bill pay or account to account transfers. But I haven't seen one in their set-up that will give instant SMS notification of ATM cash withdrawals. Do they even have that capability?

PS - It sounds like your work colleagues didn't get any of their lost funds restored by the bank???

In a word.....No. Despite the ATM believed to have been targeted was a BKK Bank ATM, situated right next to a BKK Bank exchange booth it accepted no responsibility.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My Bangkok Bank card has a chip. As do all my other cards (Australian, NZ, European). However these cards still have magnetic strips as "backup" and many ATMs read the magnetic strip not the chip.

Apparently the main reason is that the US is behind the game and has magnetic cards in general use and hardly any chip cards which means ATMs worldwide must still accept magnetic strips (although in Europe they are being phased out now I believe).

So regardless whether it has a chip, the magnetic strip can still be skimmed.

I don't know the physical/technical attributes of the chipped Be1st cards the bank is using.

But from my past conversations with BKK Bank, they've indicated their chipped ATM cards WILL NOT work at ATMs in the U.S. or with other Thai bank ATMs.

So that's making me think they went with a method that doesn't contain an operating magnetic strip approach???

Edited March 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I use an atm alot to draw for my daily expences . But I have two accounts I keep the bulk of my money in the account that does not have an atm card and transfer it at the bank. Your atm card could have been scaned about anywhere I have also read where there are devices now that can read the card while its still in your wallet so whats safe anymore who knows ....

If this is true we have reached the days of x-ray vision, so what else are they looking at and, where do we buy into such equipment because most will want one !

This is a link to an article explaining exactly how this is done. Metallic mesh wallets are available to prevent this.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/01/30/hackers-demo-shows-how-easily-credit-cards-can-be-read-through-clothes-and-wallets/

If you read that entire Forbes article, it's clear that fraud via that method isn't as easy as it might seem. And the issue in the article only applies to contactless cards, the RFID kind. And FWIW, none of my U.S. bank cards have that technology.

Contactless cards are far more common than they might seem: According to

the Smart Card Association, about 100 million of the RFID-enabled cards

are in circulation. Visa calls its technology payWave, MasterCard dubs

it PayPass, Discover brands it Zip, and American Express calls it

ExpressPay.

But assuming someone was holding that kind of card and someone had its contents scaned by a thief, the article indicates that card could only be used for one transaction, and then couldn't be used again by the same thief because of a changing one-time use code that's assigned each time.

Edited March 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's a long article written from a U.S. cardholder's perspective on the differences between magnetic strip vs. chip and signature vs. chip and PIN cards... Good luck in trying to understand what it all means for the typical card user. Suffice to say, Thailand at present is not a EMV compliant country, meaning magnetic strip only cards still work fine here. Read here about what EMV means.

http://www.cardhub.com/edu/chip-and-pin-vs-chip-and-signature/

But at the end, they have this summary:

Bottom Line

Chip-and-PIN credit cards are the only type of credit card that
will be universally accepted in fully EMV-compliant countries, but given
that there are relatively few chip-and-PIN cards being offered to US
consumers, a no foreign transaction fee magnetic stripe credit card
will in most cases still be the best available option for international
use since chip-and-signature credit cards don’t provide much benefit
relative to magstripe credit cards when used abroad.

Ultimately, there are a few key points that future international travelers can take from all this:

• Chip-and-PIN credit cards are needed for purchases made at some unattended kiosks.
• Chip-and-signature credit cards don’t provide much or any benefit relative to magnetic stripe credit cards when used abroad.
• As we approach 2015, we can expect to see more chip-based cards
  being offered by US banks that can be used both at home and abroad.

[scorecard]

Months ago I read something about the Reserve Bank of Australia issuing a directive:

- Within x years / months all credit card and ATM transactions have to be by fingerprint technology.

Any experts got any comment on this, please.

Is it possible? Would it be more secure?

One of my IT buddies mentioned recently that secure fingerprint technology had improved in leaps and bounds in the last couple of years - is this true?

[indyuk]

I don't like to use ATMs for just this reason. My Thai staff think that I am paranoid and they may have a point, but it sounds like a headache trying to get your money back from the bank.

If what you say is true how do you draw cash out of your Thai Bank account. Immigration Regs. require resident foreigners to draw cash via ATM or by bankers draft if a large sum is required.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Discover testing fingerprint-based payments system with its own employees

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-26/business/chi-discover-testing-fingerprint-payments-20121126_1_payment-system-fingerprint-credit-cards

Discover employees who want to participate will register at an on-site

kiosk, which will read an index fingerprint and assign a number to it.

Each employee will also receive a key fob with a chip that includes

information about their individual credit-card account as well as their

fingerprint.

To complete a purchase, the user will place his or

her finger on a fingerprint reader near checkout, with the key fob kept

nearby, such as in a pocket or purse, for the transaction to go

through. One security benefit to the process is that it guarantees that

the fob or credit card and its owner are at the same place at the same

time. It could also be faster and more convenient as people won't have

to fumble around with their credit cards.

Edited March 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And here's an article from fall 2012 on ANZ bank beginning a fingerprint recognition program...

Fingerprints the new ATM PINs

by: Karen Collier

From: Daily Telegraph

October 04, 2012

ANZ bank is investigating the potential for fingerprint scans at ATMs to fight card skimmers and other crime.

The bank has revealed it will explore introducing controversial
technology that stores biometric data, replacing the need for PINs,
after research suggested customers were willing to embrace it.

ANZ will today announce a mass upgrade to establish "intelligent" ATMs at 800 locations nationwide over the next two years.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/fingerprints-the-new-atm-pins/story-e6frg6n6-1226487678525

Edited March 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

My Bangkok Bank card has a chip. As do all my other cards (Australian, NZ, European). However these cards still have magnetic strips as "backup" and many ATMs read the magnetic strip not the chip.

Apparently the main reason is that the US is behind the game and has magnetic cards in general use and hardly any chip cards which means ATMs worldwide must still accept magnetic strips (although in Europe they are being phased out now I believe).

So regardless whether it has a chip, the magnetic strip can still be skimmed.

I don't know the physical/technical attributes of the chipped Be1st cards the bank is using.

But from my past conversations with BKK Bank, they've indicated their chipped ATM cards WILL NOT work at ATMs in the U.S. or with other Thai bank ATMs.

So that's making me think they went with a method that doesn't contain an operating magnetic strip approach???

Sorry that's not correct, at least in part. Not sure about using the Be1st cards in the US (or anywhere outside of Thailand for that matter - they don't have embossed numbers so presumably are "limited"), however they *do* work in other bank's ATMs (at least in two I used in Chiangmai recently; can't remember the bank brands).

[puukao]

I am NOT trying to troll, so I will keep this very short. Why can the OP say the name of the bank in a negative manner and this not be defamation or libel? Seems to me that it's safer if you NEVER mention a business with any negative story attached to it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My Bangkok Bank card has a chip. As do all my other cards (Australian, NZ, European). However these cards still have magnetic strips as "backup" and many ATMs read the magnetic strip not the chip.

Apparently the main reason is that the US is behind the game and has magnetic cards in general use and hardly any chip cards which means ATMs worldwide must still accept magnetic strips (although in Europe they are being phased out now I believe).

So regardless whether it has a chip, the magnetic strip can still be skimmed.

I don't know the physical/technical attributes of the chipped Be1st cards the bank is using.

But from my past conversations with BKK Bank, they've indicated their chipped ATM cards WILL NOT work at ATMs in the U.S. or with other Thai bank ATMs.

So that's making me think they went with a method that doesn't contain an operating magnetic strip approach???

Sorry that's not correct, at least in part. Not sure about using the Be1st cards in the US (or anywhere outside of Thailand for that matter - they don't have embossed numbers so presumably are "limited"), however they *do* work in other bank's ATMs (at least in two I used in Chiangmai recently; can't remember the bank brands).

Maybe there's some confusion about what kind of card is involved here... BKK Bank offers two different kinds of Be1st debit cards.

One is the SMART Be1st Debit card, which is the variety with the embedded smart chip. In talking with the bank's customer service this afternoon, the staff member confirmed that their Smart card, the one with the embedded microchip, cannot be used to withdraw cash from any other Thai bank's ATMs.... it only should work with BKK Bank ATMs.

The regular BKK Bank Be1st debit card, the one without the embedded chip, should work in all ATMs, inside and outside Thailand.

That is the advice the bank gave me a year or two ago when they first began offering the Smart card. That's the same advice they repeated today.

Here's what BKK Bank's webpage on its Smart Be1st Card says, which makes it pretty clear that other Thai banks' aren't compatible

Withdraw cash safely: Visit any Bangkok Bank ATM displaying the sign. VISA EMV-enabled ATMs are also available in some countries abroad, so your money can be kept safe when you travel.

Meanwhile, while I was at it, I also called and checked with Siam Commercial's customer service.

The CSR I spoke with said SCB's credit card are all available now in the chipped form. But the CSR said none of SCB's debit cards at present are available with chips...only the traditional magnetic strips. No word from them on whether SCB plans to offer chipped debit cards in the future.

Edited March 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

My Bangkok Bank card has a chip. As do all my other cards (Australian, NZ, European). However these cards still have magnetic strips as "backup" and many ATMs read the magnetic strip not the chip.

Apparently the main reason is that the US is behind the game and has magnetic cards in general use and hardly any chip cards which means ATMs worldwide must still accept magnetic strips (although in Europe they are being phased out now I believe).

So regardless whether it has a chip, the magnetic strip can still be skimmed.

I don't know the physical/technical attributes of the chipped Be1st cards the bank is using.

But from my past conversations with BKK Bank, they've indicated their chipped ATM cards WILL NOT work at ATMs in the U.S. or with other Thai bank ATMs.

So that's making me think they went with a method that doesn't contain an operating magnetic strip approach???

Sorry that's not correct, at least in part. Not sure about using the Be1st cards in the US (or anywhere outside of Thailand for that matter - they don't have embossed numbers so presumably are "limited"), however they *do* work in other bank's ATMs (at least in two I used in Chiangmai recently; can't remember the bank brands).

Maybe there's some confusion about what kind of card is involved here... BKK Bank offers two different kinds of Be1st debit cards.

One is the SMART Be1st Debit card, which is the variety with the embedded smart chip. In talking with the bank's customer service this afternoon, the staff member confirmed that their Smart card, the one with the embedded microchip, cannot be used to withdraw cash from any other Thai bank's ATMs.... it only should work with BKK Bank ATMs.

The regular BKK Bank Be1st debit card, the one without the embedded chip, should work in all ATMs, inside and outside Thailand.

That is the advice the bank gave me a year or two ago when they first began offering the Smart card. That's the same advice they repeated today.

Meanwhile, while I was at it, I also called and checked with Siam Commercial's customer service.

The CSR I spoke with said SCB's credit card are all available now in the chipped form. But the CSR said none of SCB's debit cards at present are available with chips...only the traditional magnetic strips. No word from them on whether SCB plans to offer chipped debit cards in the future.

Well maybe there's two kinds of Be1st Cards with chips on them - mine has a visible chip on it - and it works in other bank's ATMs. I've only had it for a few months BTW>

You have your info from the bank - but did you actually stick that card into an ATM? Not sure how long you've been in LOS, but in my experience, any helpful information provided by anyone should be taken with a grain of salt. Because if you ask, and they don't know, they will give the safe answer. So nobody loses face...

Does the card have a magnetic strip? If not, it must be a newer model. If yes, my guess is it will work in other bank's ATMs.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Can't answer that...

My BKK Bank Be1st debit card is the traditional non-chipped kind, because when the bank told me the SMART variety wouldn't work with any other Thai bank ATMs or those in the U.S., for example, I decided to pass on the chipped version.

You're right about the sometimes lousy advice given by CSRs around these parts. But today's bank staffer wasn't the first I've asked that question of, and it wasn't the first time different staff at BKK Bank have given me the same answer...

So, who knows! Maybe other folks here who may hold the SMART (chipped) Be1st Card can advise on what their experience has been in trying to use it with other Thai banks.

[weary]

Some times back some ATMs of Bank X in Singapore were compromised and substantial amount of monies were withdrawn...Bank X reimbruised all the account holders that were affected....they finally caught the malaysian culprits....

As far as I know, Thai banks do not have this policy, although they should.

[TommoPhysicist]

I thought most atm dispensers had daily limits of how much can be withdrawn.; and 31k bht to withdraw in a uk cash machine woud need to be over at least 2 days; is that correct.

If a card skimmer is suspected, did you go back to atm; ask the bank staff to check it.

I use the atm as infrequently as possible, and only in emergency if the bank itself is shut as I am paranoid about fraud like this...but its true PIN numbers are irrevelent to the criminals, they can read them easily.

BKB ATM allow 50k a day in two transactions.