What Is So Special About Monks Or Priests?

[rene123]

I guess my prejudices are showing because I hate most religions with a passion, even though Buddhism is not considered a religion. All I see are a bunch of men living off the avails of poor people who have been brainwashed into believing that giving to some temple is going to somehow make life better for them in the future. I see women who earn little more than 6000 baht a month give half of it away to the temple which supports a bunch of lazy men walking around in orange robes. And, even that concept of the future is a foggy notion at best considering that very few Thais plan more than 5 minutes in advance for anything. Denying ones own family and children of food and clothing to support some so called diety is rather strange by my way of thinking. Charity belongs at home. If there is any extra then MAYBE you can share with some whatever religious group you might belong to. A friend of mine told me of giving some money to an old begger woman in front of some church. But, instead of keeping the money for herself she promptly went into the temple and put it in the collection box. It should be the church that helps the people, not the other way around. The Catholic church has been doing the same thing for centuries and they prey on the countries with the poorest citizens.

[David48]

Maybe drop by my thread of-men-and-monks and share your views.

I'm asking a similar question to yours ...

"... do you think Thai people are unduly deferential do monks and forget that they are people just the same as them?"

[nevets]

This could be said of other groups of people who are in the community and getting praise from the unwashed.

[jij]

It's amusing that you're basically religion bashing to some degree and then go and quote the bible to prove your point, "charity begins at home", not belongs. To say belongs would imply that it should not exist outside of the home, which I don't think you intended to imply, as you clarify in the next sentence. Religion does give wisdom, but it seems that it's perverted over time.

While you may "hate all religions", keep in mind that secular society was resistible for 100,000,000 murders/deaths in the previous decade. Islamics will most likely be responsible for the majority of wars in the next though and please separate Muslims for Islamics.

[Neeranam]

I disagree, faith saved my life.

Buddhism is a religion.

You should try being a monk - it ain't easy and most aren't lazy.

Are you talking about temples/monks in the country? Some of them are more like social workers - the temple DOES help poor people.

It's a spiritual law/axiom that it is by giving that you receive. I think that all religions/philosophies would agree on this. In my experience this is so very very true. For me it's about 'losing self' things - selfishness, self-centredness,self-importance etc These are defects that block the sunlight of the spirit from entering me.

I think Thai people look on beggars and giving money in a very different way to Westerners. I see this when eating out with friends and a beggar comes up. The Thais seem to be grateful that there is a beggar there, giving them the chance(if they want) to give money and do themselves good. Westerners, on the other hand seem to get upset! I think beggars are a great convenient way to give. It's not about money, it's irrelevant what they do with it.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Neeranam

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I disagree, faith saved my life.

Buddhism is a religion.

You should try being a monk - it ain't easy and most aren't lazy.

Are you talking about temples/monks in the country? Some of them are more like social workers - the temple DOES help poor people.

It's a spiritual law/axiom that it is by giving that you receive. I think that all religions/philosophies would agree on this. In my experience this is so very very true. For me it's about 'losing self' things - selfishness, self-centredness,self-importance etc These are defects that block the sunlight of the spirit from entering me.

I think Thai people look on beggars and giving money in a very different way to Westerners. I see this when eating out with friends and a beggar comes up. The Thais seem to be grateful that there is a beggar there, giving them the chance(if they want) to give money and do themselves good. Westerners, on the other hand seem to get upset! I think beggars are a great convenient way to give. It's not about money, it's irrelevant what they do with it.

your talking about monk beggars? because regular beggars seem to be looking for westerners to give them money while Thai people rarely give them anything.

I have given a little to people begging with medical issues on Loy Kroh for example and the Thai people seem shocked I would give them anything.

[harryfrompattaya]

Who are you hate most religions with a passion. Are you a follower of the Devil. I think you have problema

Monks and Priests are just wonderful doing the work of God.

[Neeranam]

CobraSnakeNecktie, on 16 Mar 2013 - 12:30, said:

Neeranam, on 16 Mar 2013 - 12:02, said:

I disagree, faith saved my life.

Buddhism is a religion.

You should try being a monk - it ain't easy and most aren't lazy.

Are you talking about temples/monks in the country? Some of them are more like social workers - the temple DOES help poor people.

It's a spiritual law/axiom that it is by giving that you receive. I think that all religions/philosophies would agree on this. In my experience this is so very very true. For me it's about 'losing self' things - selfishness, self-centredness,self-importance etc These are defects that block the sunlight of the spirit from entering me.

I think Thai people look on beggars and giving money in a very different way to Westerners. I see this when eating out with friends and a beggar comes up. The Thais seem to be grateful that there is a beggar there, giving them the chance(if they want) to give money and do themselves good. Westerners, on the other hand seem to get upset! I think beggars are a great convenient way to give. It's not about money, it's irrelevant what they do with it.

your talking about monk beggars? because regular beggars seem to be looking for westerners to give them money while Thai people rarely give them anything.

I have given a little to people begging with medical issues on Loy Kroh for example and the Thai people seem shocked I would give them anything.

No, not monk beggars - monks don't beg.

Regular beggars? I assume you're talking about the ones you see in the tourist areas, who aren't real beggars. The money doesn't go to them and Thai people know this.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

CobraSnakeNecktie, on 16 Mar 2013 - 12:30, said:

Neeranam, on 16 Mar 2013 - 12:02, said:

I disagree, faith saved my life.

Buddhism is a religion.

You should try being a monk - it ain't easy and most aren't lazy.

Are you talking about temples/monks in the country? Some of them are more like social workers - the temple DOES help poor people.

It's a spiritual law/axiom that it is by giving that you receive. I think that all religions/philosophies would agree on this. In my experience this is so very very true. For me it's about 'losing self' things - selfishness, self-centredness,self-importance etc These are defects that block the sunlight of the spirit from entering me.

I think Thai people look on beggars and giving money in a very different way to Westerners. I see this when eating out with friends and a beggar comes up. The Thais seem to be grateful that there is a beggar there, giving them the chance(if they want) to give money and do themselves good. Westerners, on the other hand seem to get upset! I think beggars are a great convenient way to give. It's not about money, it's irrelevant what they do with it.

your talking about monk beggars? because regular beggars seem to be looking for westerners to give them money while Thai people rarely give them anything.

I have given a little to people begging with medical issues on Loy Kroh for example and the Thai people seem shocked I would give them anything.

No, not monk beggars - monks don't beg.

Regular beggars? I assume you're talking about the ones you see in the tourist areas, who aren't real beggars. The money doesn't go to them and Thai people know this.

Semantics.

Monks do carry begging bowls do they not? Perhaps not begging in the conventional sense.

There are some legitimate non monk beggars in Thailand who do have medical issues or are of groups like hill tribes who are shunned because they are not buddhist.

What percentage of non monk beggars are being pimped? For sure they are paying somebody like the shop owner of the proximal sidewalk or the police to allow them to beg there.

I don't think its such a black and white issue as some would make it.

[muythai2013]

live in a temple before you judge.

[Swiss1960]

rene123: You, I and many others will never understand, why Thai give to monks when they themselves have so little... we will never understand why they go to fortune tellers and pay money when they don't have enough for themselves... but that is the Thai believe, they think when they give, it will increas their Kharma and sooner or later, whether in this life or another, they will be rewarded...

Personally, I think this way is still better than the European way, where the governments raise taxes on behalf of the churches and when you decide not to pay those taxes, you must leave the church first through a registered letter which you need to include as evidence in your next tax return... and the catholic church could then even excommunicate you for that treason...

[GuestHouse]

The shallowness of the OP's views are informed by his shallow understanding.

If faith is not for him, he should perhaps try 'live and let live'.

Let others choose to live as they wish.... it takes no effort at all.

[arthurwait]

Special ?

One has a rather special house at the temple by the lake I go cycling too.

He is very protective of it and has a gate with a sign saying no entry, although there is still plenty temple grounds I thought people could visit.

Shame I can't read Thai.

He's even got his on pier now for boats, it is no longer in it's original place where people liked to feed the fish from.

I wonder how many millions all that lovely teak it cost ?

Anyway it's a lovely day out up there for families, it must be considering how many go there and donate money.

[JurgenG]

rene123: You, I and many others will never understand, why Thai give to monks when they themselves have so little... we will never understand why they go to fortune tellers and pay money when they don't have enough for themselves... but that is the Thai believe, they think when they give, it will increas their Kharma and sooner or later, whether in this life or another, they will be rewarded...

Personally, I think this way is still better than the European way, where the governments raise taxes on behalf of the churches and when you decide not to pay those taxes, you must leave the church first through a registered letter which you need to include as evidence in your next tax return... and the catholic church could then even excommunicate you for that treason...

I know people who give half of their earning to their church. And they are happy people.

And other people who give nothing and are full of hate and resentment.

It's up to you.

Edited March 16, 2013 by JurgenG

[chiangmaikelly]

Good thing there are no women living in the Wat.....Wait a second....who are all those ladies in white?

[muythai2013]

Special ?

One has a rather special house at the temple by the lake I go cycling too.

He is very protective of it and has a gate with a sign saying no entry, although there is still plenty temple grounds I thought people could visit.

Shame I can't read Thai.

He's even got his on pier now for boats, it is no longer in it's original place where people liked to feed the fish from.

I wonder how many millions all that lovely teak it cost ?

Anyway it's a lovely day out up there for families, it must be considering how many go there and donate money.

so the teak really bothers you,ok.

[rene123]

I knew I would touch a nerve of some. I actually give more than half my money away in Thailand, but I give it to people in need of a tiny bit more to help them enjoy life with a little more freedom. I try to help those that need some assistance in helping themselves. I would rather set some family up in a business than just give to some charity that skims off the top. I think most leaders of all religions have lost touch with the little people they supposedly are there to serve. The Catholic church is probably the worst of the bunch.

jij was correct in correcting me. I did mean "Charity BEGINS at home" rather than "Charity BELONGS at home"

I believe in helping those to help themselves for the benefit of their future. I don't give to beggers on the street, but I give a little each day to an old woman who searches for bottles in the hotel dumpster. She is just trying to survive in a harsh world and she never begs.

I just thought of the topic when I noticed a few women feeling upset because they didn't have enough saved to give to the temple when the temple had far more than they would ever have. I see hundreds of orange robed monks walking around. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the monks have no viable form of earning a living other than charity. In a country where the average person seldom earns more than 6000 baht a month, I think taking on the charity case of a bunch of monks is excessive.

Of course, I do know it is never going to change and I should just ignore the problems I see around me that have obvious solutions that nobody is ever going to use.

As far as charities in North America are concerned, they are a disgrace. I read somewhere that one of the bigger charities sends NOTHING to the people they say they are helping, and yet the leader of that charity earns over a million dollar salary each year. I was going to name the charity but I think that is illegal in Thailand.

[HeijoshinCool]

I knew I would touch a nerve of some. I actually give more than half my money away in Thailand, but I give it to people in need of a tiny bit more to help them enjoy life with a little more freedom. I try to help those that need some assistance in helping themselves. I would rather set some family up in a business than just give to some charity that skims off the top. I think most leaders of all religions have lost touch with the little people they supposedly are there to serve. The Catholic church is probably the worst of the bunch.

jij was correct in correcting me. I did mean "Charity BEGINS at home" rather than "Charity BELONGS at home"

I believe in helping those to help themselves for the benefit of their future. I don't give to beggers on the street, but I give a little each day to an old woman who searches for bottles in the hotel dumpster. She is just trying to survive in a harsh world and she never begs.

I just thought of the topic when I noticed a few women feeling upset because they didn't have enough saved to give to the temple when the temple had far more than they would ever have. I see hundreds of orange robed monks walking around. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the monks have no viable form of earning a living other than charity. In a country where the average person seldom earns more than 6000 baht a month, I think taking on the charity case of a bunch of monks is excessive.

Of course, I do know it is never going to change and I should just ignore the problems I see around me that have obvious solutions that nobody is ever going to use.

As far as charities in North America are concerned, they are a disgrace. I read somewhere that one of the bigger charities sends NOTHING to the people they say they are helping, and yet the leader of that charity earns over a million dollar salary each year. I was going to name the charity but I think that is illegal in Thailand.

I don't think the United Way is in Thailand.

[transam]

I said to the mrs, why don't you go to THAT Temple, she said cos l don't know if they are all real monks. Some portray to be but are not. There for the freebies.

I listen to my mrs regarding stuff here.

[muythai2013]

I knew I would touch a nerve of some. I actually give more than half my money away in Thailand, but I give it to people in need of a tiny bit more to help them enjoy life with a little more freedom. I try to help those that need some assistance in helping themselves. I would rather set some family up in a business than just give to some charity that skims off the top. I think most leaders of all religions have lost touch with the little people they supposedly are there to serve. The Catholic church is probably the worst of the bunch.

jij was correct in correcting me. I did mean "Charity BEGINS at home" rather than "Charity BELONGS at home"

I believe in helping those to help themselves for the benefit of their future. I don't give to beggers on the street, but I give a little each day to an old woman who searches for bottles in the hotel dumpster. She is just trying to survive in a harsh world and she never begs.

I just thought of the topic when I noticed a few women feeling upset because they didn't have enough saved to give to the temple when the temple had far more than they would ever have. I see hundreds of orange robed monks walking around. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the monks have no viable form of earning a living other than charity. In a country where the average person seldom earns more than 6000 baht a month, I think taking on the charity case of a bunch of monks is excessive.

Of course, I do know it is never going to change and I should just ignore the problems I see around me that have obvious solutions that nobody is ever going to use.

As far as charities in North America are concerned, they are a disgrace. I read somewhere that one of the bigger charities sends NOTHING to the people they say they are helping, and yet the leader of that charity earns over a million dollar salary each year. I was going to name the charity but I think that is illegal in Thailand.

Do you realise you are taring all monks with the same brush, think about that.

Not only have you not lived in a temple, you know next to nothing about its inner workings, fancy sitting there and really attacking something with little to know idea of any aspect of it.

you cannot with absolute honesty say you know how things operate in the temples.

[transam]

I knew I would touch a nerve of some. I actually give more than half my money away in Thailand, but I give it to people in need of a tiny bit more to help them enjoy life with a little more freedom. I try to help those that need some assistance in helping themselves. I would rather set some family up in a business than just give to some charity that skims off the top. I think most leaders of all religions have lost touch with the little people they supposedly are there to serve. The Catholic church is probably the worst of the bunch.

jij was correct in correcting me. I did mean "Charity BEGINS at home" rather than "Charity BELONGS at home"

I believe in helping those to help themselves for the benefit of their future. I don't give to beggers on the street, but I give a little each day to an old woman who searches for bottles in the hotel dumpster. She is just trying to survive in a harsh world and she never begs.

I just thought of the topic when I noticed a few women feeling upset because they didn't have enough saved to give to the temple when the temple had far more than they would ever have. I see hundreds of orange robed monks walking around. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the monks have no viable form of earning a living other than charity. In a country where the average person seldom earns more than 6000 baht a month, I think taking on the charity case of a bunch of monks is excessive.

Of course, I do know it is never going to change and I should just ignore the problems I see around me that have obvious solutions that nobody is ever going to use.

As far as charities in North America are concerned, they are a disgrace. I read somewhere that one of the bigger charities sends NOTHING to the people they say they are helping, and yet the leader of that charity earns over a million dollar salary each year. I was going to name the charity but I think that is illegal in Thailand.

Do you realise you are taring all monks with the same brush, think about that.

Not only have you not lived in a temple, you know next to nothing about its inner workings, fancy sitting there and really attacking something with little to know idea of any aspect of it.

you cannot with absolute honesty say you know how things operate in the temples.

Perhaps some locals with a little savvy do. Could tell you a story but l won't.

[muythai2013]

I knew I would touch a nerve of some. I actually give more than half my money away in Thailand, but I give it to people in need of a tiny bit more to help them enjoy life with a little more freedom. I try to help those that need some assistance in helping themselves. I would rather set some family up in a business than just give to some charity that skims off the top. I think most leaders of all religions have lost touch with the little people they supposedly are there to serve. The Catholic church is probably the worst of the bunch.

jij was correct in correcting me. I did mean "Charity BEGINS at home" rather than "Charity BELONGS at home"

I believe in helping those to help themselves for the benefit of their future. I don't give to beggers on the street, but I give a little each day to an old woman who searches for bottles in the hotel dumpster. She is just trying to survive in a harsh world and she never begs.

I just thought of the topic when I noticed a few women feeling upset because they didn't have enough saved to give to the temple when the temple had far more than they would ever have. I see hundreds of orange robed monks walking around. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the monks have no viable form of earning a living other than charity. In a country where the average person seldom earns more than 6000 baht a month, I think taking on the charity case of a bunch of monks is excessive.

Of course, I do know it is never going to change and I should just ignore the problems I see around me that have obvious solutions that nobody is ever going to use.

As far as charities in North America are concerned, they are a disgrace. I read somewhere that one of the bigger charities sends NOTHING to the people they say they are helping, and yet the leader of that charity earns over a million dollar salary each year. I was going to name the charity but I think that is illegal in Thailand.

Do you realise you are taring all monks with the same brush, think about that.

Not only have you not lived in a temple, you know next to nothing about its inner workings, fancy sitting there and really attacking something with little to know idea of any aspect of it.

you cannot with absolute honesty say you know how things operate in the temples.

Perhaps some locals with a little savvy do. Could tell you a story but l won't.

tell what they want, I lived in one, is that local enough. point out same negative stories if it pleases you, their are faults committed by people in every community.

that does not mean the whole system is lacking, it just means your staring at the fault and missing the bigger picture.

[muythai2013]

if you have a pimple on your face you work on removing it, fixing it.

you dont however forget about the beautiful the head it sits on, worse still you do not remove the head.

[transam]

if you have a pimple on your face you work on removing it, fixing it.

you dont however forget about the beautiful the head it sits on, worse still you do not remove the head.

Think you are ''missing'' a few points to satisfy your conviction. Stuff told me by a Thai speaks volumes. Sure, nothing in life is perfect but really don't like seeing the poor going without, thinking somehow they will win the lottery or their problems will be solved by giving what little they have.

[chiangmaikelly]

Rule number seven.

[simple1]

Special ?

One has a rather special house at the temple by the lake I go cycling too.

He is very protective of it and has a gate with a sign saying no entry, although there is still plenty temple grounds I thought people could visit.

Shame I can't read Thai.

He's even got his on pier now for boats, it is no longer in it's original place where people liked to feed the fish from.

I wonder how many millions all that lovely teak it cost ?

Anyway it's a lovely day out up there for families, it must be considering how many go there and donate money.

so the teak really bothers you,ok.

No, it's the use of denotations and payment for blessing etc that is then used for self serving purposes. Merit Making in Thailand is generally the complete opposite of the philosophy/practice of Karma as it is again utilised for consciously self serving purposes, the Sangha would/should know this, yet perpetuate the practice for generating money.

Their must be monks in Thailand that practice traditional Theravada Buddhism without the corrupt practices of many, it would be good to know the names of a few Wat where this holds true.

Edited March 16, 2013 by simple1

[arthurwait]

Special ?

One has a rather special house at the temple by the lake I go cycling too.

He is very protective of it and has a gate with a sign saying no entry, although there is still plenty temple grounds I thought people could visit.

Shame I can't read Thai.

He's even got his on pier now for boats, it is no longer in it's original place where people liked to feed the fish from.

I wonder how many millions all that lovely teak it cost ?

Anyway it's a lovely day out up there for families, it must be considering how many go there and donate money.

so the teak really bothers you,ok.

Yes all this money just grew on the trees.

[rene123]

I knew I would touch a nerve of some. I actually give more than half my money away in Thailand, but I give it to people in need of a tiny bit more to help them enjoy life with a little more freedom. I try to help those that need some assistance in helping themselves. I would rather set some family up in a business than just give to some charity that skims off the top. I think most leaders of all religions have lost touch with the little people they supposedly are there to serve. The Catholic church is probably the worst of the bunch.

jij was correct in correcting me. I did mean "Charity BEGINS at home" rather than "Charity BELONGS at home"

I believe in helping those to help themselves for the benefit of their future. I don't give to beggers on the street, but I give a little each day to an old woman who searches for bottles in the hotel dumpster. She is just trying to survive in a harsh world and she never begs.

I just thought of the topic when I noticed a few women feeling upset because they didn't have enough saved to give to the temple when the temple had far more than they would ever have. I see hundreds of orange robed monks walking around. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the monks have no viable form of earning a living other than charity. In a country where the average person seldom earns more than 6000 baht a month, I think taking on the charity case of a bunch of monks is excessive.

Of course, I do know it is never going to change and I should just ignore the problems I see around me that have obvious solutions that nobody is ever going to use.

As far as charities in North America are concerned, they are a disgrace. I read somewhere that one of the bigger charities sends NOTHING to the people they say they are helping, and yet the leader of that charity earns over a million dollar salary each year. I was going to name the charity but I think that is illegal in Thailand.

I don't think the United Way is in Thailand.

And thank someone for that. I was GOING to say "god", but I'm not sure there is a god. And, that is exactly the charity I meant.

I'm not intentionally pissing in someone's private nest. I'm just going by what I observe around me. I know it's not going to change, but I just see a lot of excess at the top of each and every religion in the world. There are HOW many temples in just Chiang Mai alone? I go to some tiny rural village of bamboo shacks and there is also a great big temple complete with all the gold finery.

[transam]

Two ''soft'' stuff l know about and would like a comment.

1. High ranking monk spending money from the poor to buy lottery tickets.

2. Spending money from the poor to buy expensive mobile phones.

[hookedondhamma]

Good thing there are no women living in the Wat.....Wait a second....who are all those ladies in white?

Those are maechis, women who undertake a certain number of precepts. Often they are very experienced meditators. Some live at the temple, some live at home, some have their own areas.

As for monks, the term basically means beggar.

Almsbowls are also known as begging bowls.

As for the op, as long as you are happy in life is all that matters. Whether you follow a system or other is up to you, but the more you go probing into someone else's choice of life, the more miserAble you probably will be. This is because it is their life and their choice; anything you assume about is not from direct experience, and is likely to be far from the truth.