What Would You Do? – An Agony Of Conscience

[Neeranam]

What are you talking about? Your questions are nonsense, IMO. Could it be that you don't understand much at all?

Thais should get involved because it's their country. In a typical situation, they've nothing to fear of xenophobia and racism clouding the judgment of others.

Do you understand that if you kill a Thai in self defense, you'll likely spend the rest of your life in jail for it? Please think about this if and when you decide to answer.

Strange logic - paranoia.

If I kill a Thai in self-defense , the only way I'd go to jail is if there was no need to kill. The same as my country. Whatever gives you the idea that I/we am/are always in the wrong in this country?

[Beetlejuice]

Drive on by.

Not my business, I don't really care what happens to strangers.

OK, so you guys are all saints and I'm not.

Interesting.

The problem is that there are no real guidelines or rights and wrongs to this.

But I will say that if in the event it is someone nearest and dearest to me that is being attacked, I hope that not everyone has the same attitudes as you, although I am not putting you down or saying that you are wrong.

As I said previous, I think we are now living in a sad world and strongly believe, what goes around, comes around. It`s just in many cases some people believe situations like this will always happen to the other fella and can never happen to them.

Perhaps legally the look the other way option is perfectly acceptable, but I think morally it stinks. I wonder what would have happened if during the two world wars, everyone thought the same way and said; who cares.

I do know that since I was a kid, there appears to be a different breed of people with a whole new way of thinking, having no regards or respect for anyone else and the I`m Alright Jack approach. Many of us are now very much locked into our own little worlds. Perhaps it`s the Internet which has caused people to forget how to interact with others. Who knows?

Sad, sad, sad.

[Zatoichi]

As a slightly built man in his 40's, like everyone says, all he could really do was take a picture of the plate number and the guy beating her. Then once he left assist the woman. If I was in his shoes I would have done that. Personally I'm kinda big, and I have a fiery loathing for men who hit women, so I probably would have bum rushed the guy and commenced to beating that a ss. But that's me, right or wrong I HATE men who hit women it flips a rage switch on in me that's hard to turn off. Just thinking about it rises my ire.

[NeverSure]

I agree with 'Beetlejuice' in that some foreigners here seem to have an IRRATIONAL fear of Thai people. Foreigners often come across as bumbling codependents scared to say no to a Thai, scared they make a Thai lose face, scared the Thai is carrying a gun. Now, how many Thais actually own guns. I bet it's a lot more for Americans, for example.It is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

88.8% in the USA compared to 15.6% in Thailand. 5.5% in Scotland.

-snip-

Thailand is a very, very dangerous place. There are twice as many gun murders per capita in Thailand as there are in the US. Link

The percentage of people who own guns is irrelevant to the percentage who would use them unlawfully. I am very afraid of Thais in a confrontation due to all of the face things and ganging up things mentioned. Also, I'm not allowed to carry my trusty Glock as I am in the US, but I don't know what a Thai or his friends might have.

A bit off topic, but someone mentioned standing between that assailant and the woman. If I was young enough and capable physically enough to whip that man and chose to take action, I'd get right in his face. That way if he tried to pull a gun or knife which takes a few seconds, I'd be in position to grab his arm and stop him.

There are lots of former special forces guys on this forum who are capable of grabbing the guy and breaking his arm and his knees and putting him down while taking his weapon away from him. The last thing you want to do is to be at some distance from a guy who's pulling a gun if you're unarmed.

[Daewoo]

I know couldn't have done nothing...

I would have at least done what I could to make him stop, direct his attention at me, leaving myself somewhere to go without getting myself physically involved... (despite being an ex-SAS Marine Green and Red beret, foreign legion type like all the other farang in Thailand, I couldn't fight my way out of a wet paper bag)...

I would be surprised if my taking action didn't trigger similar action in others... At least stop the beating long enough to let the woman get into the safety of her car, and give the assailant a chance to choose to drive away...

All the photographing of number plates and calling of police isn't going to mean shit to the woman getting beaten right there and then...

In all cultures, there is a propensity for most people to do nothing... but if one person stands up, usually out of a crowd someone else will stand beside them, and then someone else... you don't know how many other people were sitting int heir car's wanting to help, but also not knowing how... Just satying out of his range and yelling that 'she's had enough' might have been enough to get him to stop his assault sooner and stopped some of the damage...

Daewoo

[yoslim]

Why even think about it ?

Thais made it easy for us, we are Farang 3rd class citizen no reason to get involved in anything Thai on Thai.

And who knows maybe the woman pushed the guy to far and got what she started..

Edited March 17, 2013 by yoslim

[JDGRUEN]

What OP describes could have easily been stopped by a spray can of strong Pepper gas (and all spray cannisters are not all alike).

I know spray cans of Pepper Gas work - I used one to save my own life once - and it worked great. Actually the gas I used was Pepper Gas laced with CS riot gas. And the spray in the face certainly got the Illegal Alien's attention and he was not able to stab me with the knife he pulled.

But never the less, in the situation OP describes - a bystander could have done a 'run by' and sprayed the attacker in the face. The good Samaritan doing the 'run by' would have been back locked in his/her car before the attacker could gain his bearings. A spray in the face would have interrupted the attacker's frenzy - I bet money on it. And for you 'nay sayers' - it does work and one does not have to bring retaliation upon oneself in the process. I have read various opinions on whether carrying Pepper Gas in Thailand is legal or not. I tend to believe the information saying that it is legal.

As the OP said - the type of violence described and the bystander actions or lack of action can happen anywhere. But beating a woman down to the ground into a bloody pulp in public in Texas USA will very possibly get the guy a bullet as there are over 500,000 Concealed Carry Permit holders in Texas. And the carriers are allowed to use it to protect the life of another.

[NeverSure]

-snip- And the carriers are allowed to use it to protect the life of another.

And may use deadly force to protect himself or another person from serious bodily harm. Link

The Texas Constitution

Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS

Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

"A person is justified in using deadly force against an attacker to protect another person if he would be justified to use it to protect himself against an unlawful attack and he reasonably believes his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the other person from serious injury or death."

[aTomsLife]

-snip- And the carriers are allowed to use it to protect the life of another.

And may use deadly force to protect himself or another person from serious bodily harm. Link

The Texas Constitution

Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS

Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

"A person is justified in using deadly force against an attacker to protect another person if he would be justified to use it to protect himself against an unlawful attack and he reasonably believes his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the other person from serious injury or death."

If I could be sure of these protections here, my attitude toward the situation would change immensely. But there's no point debating hypotheticals.

[Semper]

What Would You Do?

To tell you the truth, I wouldn't get involved.

[wildorchid]

I'm DIGUSTED!!! IF this woman was your mother, sister, or wife, would you want some one to do something to help her???

I hope who took photo's will go too the police and this PIG of a man is made to pay in a way he will never forget!!!

BY the way have the police decided that there was a crime caught on CCTV with the gang bashing of a 5 month pregnate woman in a shopping mall yet? or the police have been payed not to find any crime there also???

change will only come when the hi-so and powerful's family members are bashed and then the BIB's will find the criminal.

[NeverSure]

If I could be sure of these protections here, my attitude toward the situation would change immensely. But there's no point debating hypotheticals.

So would mine. What a lot of good folks don't understand, is that the 2nd Amendment isn't the strongest gun right some of us have. If you look at that quote, that's the Texas State Constitution. A state may not take away rights given by the Federal Constitution, but it may impart more rights in its own constitution. Because the US is a republic of states, as long as you are in one of many states, you have more gun rights by state law.

I'm In the State of Oregon. Oregon's constitution guarantees the right to keep and bear arms, and makes no mention of any militia. It's personal. In Oregon, that's the law because it doesn't violate 2A.

I would have been actually expected (but not required) to take that guy out. Those are the acts that don't make the international news.

What Would You Do?

To tell you the truth, I wouldn't get involved.

Neither would I as things stand in Thailand. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if that hi-so perp had a gun, and Thais are killers. I posted a link to the facts above, showing that there are twice as many gun murders per capita in Thailand than there are in the US. Yet Thailand has some pretty strict gun control and registry laws.

Also, being a farang, that hi-so perp would have probably been seen as a victim of my actions. I'd probably be paying big bucks for my get out of jail card, while he walked.

I never assume anything will work out as it should in Thailand.

Edited March 18, 2013 by NeverSure

[Neeranam]

What OP describes could have easily been stopped by a spray can of strong Pepper gas (and all spray cannisters are not all alike).

I know spray cans of Pepper Gas work - I used one to save my own life once - and it worked great. Actually the gas I used was Pepper Gas laced with CS riot gas. And the spray in the face certainly got the Illegal Alien's attention and he was not able to stab me with the knife he pulled.

But never the less, in the situation OP describes - a bystander could have done a 'run by' and sprayed the attacker in the face. The good Samaritan doing the 'run by' would have been back locked in his/her car before the attacker could gain his bearings. A spray in the face would have interrupted the attacker's frenzy - I bet money on it. And for you 'nay sayers' - it does work and one does not have to bring retaliation upon oneself in the process. I have read various opinions on whether carrying Pepper Gas in Thailand is legal or not. I tend to believe the information saying that it is legal.

As the OP said - the type of violence described and the bystander actions or lack of action can happen anywhere. But beating a woman down to the ground into a bloody pulp in public in Texas USA will very possibly get the guy a bullet as there are over 500,000 Concealed Carry Permit holders in Texas. And the carriers are allowed to use it to protect the life of another.

Thanks for the warning - I ain't going to Texas.

[Neeranam]

Why even think about it ?

Thais made it easy for us, we are Farang 3rd class citizen no reason to get involved in anything Thai on Thai.

And who knows maybe the woman pushed the guy to far and got what she started..

Good point - maybe the woman pulled a gun on the man and he beat her up - we don't know.

[NeverSure]

What OP describes could have easily been stopped by a spray can of strong Pepper gas (and all spray cannisters are not all alike).

I know spray cans of Pepper Gas work - I used one to save my own life once - and it worked great. Actually the gas I used was Pepper Gas laced with CS riot gas. And the spray in the face certainly got the Illegal Alien's attention and he was not able to stab me with the knife he pulled.

But never the less, in the situation OP describes - a bystander could have done a 'run by' and sprayed the attacker in the face. The good Samaritan doing the 'run by' would have been back locked in his/her car before the attacker could gain his bearings. A spray in the face would have interrupted the attacker's frenzy - I bet money on it. And for you 'nay sayers' - it does work and one does not have to bring retaliation upon oneself in the process. I have read various opinions on whether carrying Pepper Gas in Thailand is legal or not. I tend to believe the information saying that it is legal.

As the OP said - the type of violence described and the bystander actions or lack of action can happen anywhere. But beating a woman down to the ground into a bloody pulp in public in Texas USA will very possibly get the guy a bullet as there are over 500,000 Concealed Carry Permit holders in Texas. And the carriers are allowed to use it to protect the life of another.

Thanks for the warning - I ain't going to Texas.

Why, because you "beat women down to the ground into a bloody pulp" and don't want to be accountable? You don't want some guy or guys to step in and stop you cold?

[NeverSure]

Why even think about it ?

Thais made it easy for us, we are Farang 3rd class citizen no reason to get involved in anything Thai on Thai.

And who knows maybe the woman pushed the guy to far and got what she started..

Good point - maybe the woman pulled a gun on the man and he beat her up - we don't know.

Let's suppose that's true. In any circumstance, once the danger is over you stop attacking or you become the assailant. That's true for police or the public. It is flat out illegal to beat someone in the street after they are no danger. If you do, that's vigilante justice.

You attack to stop the instant threat, but only until it's stopped. Any further and it's revenge which is up to the law to decide punishment.

Edited March 18, 2013 by NeverSure

[rct99q]

Just a couple of things from me. About a year ago my brother in law and I were heading home from the local bar (early 8pm ish) and witnessed two older males "verbally" attacking a younger boy (maybe 13). I stopped the car as it was evident it was certainly going to get more physical as the abusive males had stepped up their attack. My brother in law stopped me and stated he would handle it stating "I got involved and something bad happened the consequences for me would be worse than for him (being thai)."

My bil is a larger Thai male who served time in the armed forces so has some training. He relatively quickly put down the attackers and everything got settled up (gave the younger boy a ride home to be safe).

Was in Mazatlan Mexico some years ago at a party where I knew most of the people from a local bar. One of the boys was getting a bit drunk and stoned and was being a bit aggressive towards one of the western women at the party (i did not know her) and as a schmuck I tried to get in between him and the girl. He pulled out a knife and asked me if I wanted to see what my insides looked like. Very calmly I might add. In the end cooler heads prevailed but have never forgotten that evening.

Getting involved is a personal decision and I in no way label another persons actions as being heroic or cowardly. I think however my family would prefer they had a father and a husband who came home at the end of the day then not.

But just my opinion.