Thailand's Tropical Gulag

[andrew]

Thailand's tropical gulag

This is an excellent TV documentary made by AL JAZEERA.

It's probably the most balanced commentary you'll see about the situation in the three provinces (Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat).

The gulag referred to is Inkayuth (Pattani).

The documentary is just under 25 minutes long. It's very objective and really is extremely good.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/2011/01/2011120123150795429.html

[HeavyDrinker]

It's piss poor.

Even the title tries to sway the balance and to suggest that this is Thaksin's fault shows they haven't made this doc with any sense of telling the truth.

A load of shit.

It really is.

Read Osbourne, Wyatt and even WAR Wood has some decent look ins as to how the situation came about but don't rely on this nonsense.

[samran]

HD - would be keen to now what the main points are of those three academics(?) you have referenced? Many thanks in advance.

[HeavyDrinker]

Milton Osborne very nicely (and simply) spells out the systems of rule in SEA in his Southeast Asia.

Wyatt deals with the south in some depth in Thailand: A Short History.

Wood also offers a good perspective especially from an earlier time when Islam first came to the Peninsula.

Their 'academic' qualifications are beyond doubt and dispute. Google em...

.

[HeavyDrinker]

Their main points are that there were political machinations beyond the power of the indigenous people at the time.

While many did fairly well under the British 'Colonial Yoke', once the territories were ceded to Siam, they didn't quite get the same slice of the cake as they once did.

It is suggested (and only suggested mind you) than many of the motivators behind the current unrest are ancestors of those deposed by the removal of the British protectorate...but that is mere speculation by 'academics'....and what the **** would we know as we're white.....

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I thought it was a good documentary but the use of the word Gulag was loaded and biased.

The blame should be squarely on the insurgents who have killed thousands with chicken shit bombings and beheadings.

Otherwise the Thai govt and society are lazy and wouldn't even be there beyond their normal priorities of interdicting drugs and controlling regular criminal activity.

[geriatrickid]

The use of the term gulag is inappropriate. Yes, the Thai military has engaged in some unacceptable practices. However, this is how the Thai military behaves. Thais in other regions have been shot and beaten too. Part of the problem is an absence of a professional military officer cadre and a lack of general discipline. Welcome to Thailand.

What the program misses is the fact that the burden of providing basic health care, education, and social services in addition to national security has been forced upon the Thai military. This transfer of responsibilities to a group that is not a set up to be a social services facility is due to the insurgents' murder and intimidation of health professionals, teachers and public administrators. The insurgents are attempting a Taliban approach, which is to drive the region back in time, to prevent literacy, self sufficiency in agriculture and the prevention and control of disease. A weak, frightened, and hungry population is easier to control.

[HeavyDrinker]

The insurgents are attempting a Taliban approach, which is to drive the region back in time, to prevent literacy, self sufficiency in agriculture and the prevention and control of disease. A weak, frightened, and hungry population is easier to control.

Which this documentary fails to even mention....and the rest of the facts you pointed out

Good and insightful post GK!

Thankfully someone else here knows something about this country!

[h90]

It's piss poor.

Even the title tries to sway the balance and to suggest that this is Thaksin's fault shows they haven't made this doc with any sense of telling the truth.

A load of shit.

It really is.

Read Osbourne, Wyatt and even WAR Wood has some decent look ins as to how the situation came about but don't rely on this nonsense.

didn't see it yet, but Thaksin did surely a lot to make it worse. Of course it isn't his fault but he did a lot things that increased the problems.

[HeavyDrinker]

didn't see it yet, but Thaksin did surely a lot to make it worse. Of course it isn't his fault but he did a lot things that increased the problems.

He didn't really. His detractors like to think so, but in truth the insurgents were waiting for an excuse to flare up again and given the encouragement of 9/11 and later Bali, coupled with Thaksin's public siding with the US, they had a perfect excuse.

Thaksin's policies about the south are still somewhat ambiguous, therefore speculation of this nature are somewhat moot, not to say unhelpful.

I apologise for nutshelling things somewhat however to go into too much depth makes things dull, not only for the reader but also for me when I'd much rather be making 'fart gags' elsewhere on the internet.

Cheers!

[andrew]

The insurgents are attempting a Taliban approach, which is to drive the region back in time, to prevent literacy, self sufficiency in agriculture and the prevention and control of disease. A weak, frightened, and hungry population is easier to control.

Which this documentary fails to even mention....and the rest of the facts you pointed out

Good and insightful post GK!

Thankfully someone else here knows something about this country!

Your problem is that you have become an expert. By your own admission, you have read a few books written by experts. You evidently believe all that these experts have to say. You state that their "academic qualifications are beyond doubt and dispute". I'm guessing that you now consider yourself to be very knowledgeable. You feel that you're in position to offer insight and opinions.

I prefer to read Socrates. He said that the only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing. I like that. It's kind of cool. In the context of this thread, it means that although I know ten times more than you (and believe me, I do), I still know nothing.

But the real advantage of knowing that you know nothing is that you have a strong desire to continue learning. Experts (like you) lose this desire.

It's odd, isn't it? I live in Pattani. I've spent a whole year reading about the place, its history and culture. I know more about Pattani than anyone else on this forum. And yet I openly admit that I know nothing.

You -- on the other hand -- are an expert. You're knowledgeable. And opinionated.

There are actually quite a few experts on this forum. I like experts. They make me laugh!

Have a nice day.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

That is the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (HUP)

The more you learn about something then you realize you really don't really know anything about it.

or

The less you know about something then the more you think you know about it.

[HeavyDrinker]

Was that just a pop at me or do you actually have anything to say on the topic at hand?

You know nothing about me, You know nothing about what I may have or have not read.

You have no idea who I am, what I do for a living, nor where I work. You know nothing about where I have lived, studied or who I know.

Be very careful about getting on a high horse.

I take it you were involved in making the documentary in some way, hence your flame?

If you think you 'know ten times more than me and anyone on this forum' then please share your wondrous knowledge here, but tread carefully....

[Kananga]

Was that just a pop at me or do you actually have anything to say on the topic at hand?

You know nothing about me, You know nothing about what I may have or have not read.

You have no idea who I am, what I do for a living, nor where I work. You know nothing about where I have lived, studied or who I know.

Be very careful about getting on a high horse.

I take it you were involved in making the documentary in some way, hence your flame?

If you think you 'know ten times more than me and anyone on this forum' then please share your wondrous knowledge here, but tread carefully....

Ignore him. He's just done the typical adolescent strop because his movie has come in for some criticism. If only adults would behave like adults we wouldnt have all these problems in the world...

[Berkshire]

The insurgents are attempting a Taliban approach, which is to drive the region back in time, to prevent literacy, self sufficiency in agriculture and the prevention and control of disease. A weak, frightened, and hungry population is easier to control.

Which this documentary fails to even mention....and the rest of the facts you pointed out

Good and insightful post GK!

Thankfully someone else here knows something about this country!

Really hard to believe that a "documentary made by AL JAZEERA" can be balanced and objective. Surely the OP can at least concede this.

[HeavyDrinker]

But he has lived there for a WHOLE year and knows ten times more than anyone else on the entire forum...

[andrew]

Was that just a pop at me or do you actually have anything to say on the topic at hand?

You know nothing about me, You know nothing about what I may have or have not read.

You have no idea who I am, what I do for a living, nor where I work. You know nothing about where I have lived, studied or who I know.

Be very careful about getting on a high horse.

I take it you were involved in making the documentary in some way, hence your flame?

If you think you 'know ten times more than me and anyone on this forum' then please share your wondrous knowledge here, but tread carefully....

Your post is silly. And you know it.

Check out the News Forum. Read some of the dross that's written about Pattani.

You'll learn, for example, that ...............

1. these murdering terrorists want to impose Sharia law and eventually take over the whole of Thailand

2. these insurgents should be kicked back into Malaysia (which is where they came from)

3. these Muslims should all just go back to the Middle East.

Wonderful stuff.

But you're different. You've made an effort to educate yourself. You've done well.

I guess you know all about the past. You probably know that according to early Portuguese accounts, Pattani was one of the first places in the region to convert to Islam. You probably know about the time in the early 1600s when Siam sent down an army of about 50,000 soldiers in an attempt to conquer Pattani. You probably know that Pattani (aided by its vast army of Portuguese mercenaries and gigantic cannons) defeated the Siamese.

You probably know that at its peak, Pattani was the second most important trading post on the Thai-Malay peninsular. Yes -- for a while it was more important than Ayuthaya and second only to Malacca.

I'm sure you know all about 1902 and 1909. I'm also sure you know that Pattani Malays sided with the British during WW2 in the hope that if the British had won, the British would have taken Pattani away from Thailand.

I'm sure too that you know about the Tak Bai massacre in 1948.

------------------------------

But this is just general knowledge. I live here. And I know nothing.

I'm not ethnically Malay. And I don't speak Ya-vee.

It's <deleted> hard to get these people to open up.

So ........... I just keep learning. And I would encourage you to keep learning, too.

Good luck!

[smokie36]

The OP claims to know "more about Pattani than anyone else on the forum".

I assume you were born and raised in Pattani andrew?

This is a Thai forum....having lived in Pattani for a while hardly qualifies "the man who knows nothing" to make such statements.

Please stop contradicting yourself.

[simple1]

Anyone interested in reviewing and providing feedback on the PDF at the URL below. The report was published in 03/2012 by a Thai military officer whilst at a western Defence and Strategic Studies Academy. I have posted before & only rec'd one response, that was positive regards the insights into the Thai view on the Deep South. Looking forward to responses...

http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf

[Bluenose BKK]

didn't see it yet, but Thaksin did surely a lot to make it worse. Of course it isn't his fault but he did a lot things that increased the problems.

He didn't really. His detractors like to think so, but in truth the insurgents were waiting for an excuse to flare up again and given the encouragement of 9/11 and later Bali, coupled with Thaksin's public siding with the US, they had a perfect excuse.

Thaksin's policies about the south are still somewhat ambiguous, therefore speculation of this nature are somewhat moot, not to say unhelpful.

I apologise for nutshelling things somewhat however to go into too much depth makes things dull, not only for the reader but also for me when I'd much rather be making 'fart gags' elsewhere on the internet.

Cheers!

The Bali Bombings of the Sari Club and Paddy's Bar happened before 9/11,not later,your facts are wrong!

[Bluenose BKK]

Was that just a pop at me or do you actually have anything to say on the topic at hand?

You know nothing about me, You know nothing about what I may have or have not read.

You have no idea who I am, what I do for a living, nor where I work. You know nothing about where I have lived, studied or who I know.

Be very careful about getting on a high horse.

I take it you were involved in making the documentary in some way, hence your flame?

If you think you 'know ten times more than me and anyone on this forum' then please share your wondrous knowledge here, but tread carefully....

Surely you must realise calling yourself 'Heavy Drinker' won't encourage people to regard you as an expert witness,now will it?

[HeavyDrinker]

didn't see it yet, but Thaksin did surely a lot to make it worse. Of course it isn't his fault but he did a lot things that increased the problems.

He didn't really. His detractors like to think so, but in truth the insurgents were waiting for an excuse to flare up again and given the encouragement of 9/11 and later Bali, coupled with Thaksin's public siding with the US, they had a perfect excuse.

Thaksin's policies about the south are still somewhat ambiguous, therefore speculation of this nature are somewhat moot, not to say unhelpful.

I apologise for nutshelling things somewhat however to go into too much depth makes things dull, not only for the reader but also for me when I'd much rather be making 'fart gags' elsewhere on the internet.

Cheers!

The Bali Bombings of the Sari Club and Paddy's Bar happened before 9/11,not later,your facts are wrong!

Buy a calender or at least look at google.

On my calender 2001 is before 2002...

Now please leave serious topics to people who aren't the wrong side of 3 cheap Leos.

But this is just general knowledge. I live here. And I know nothing.

I'm not ethnically Malay. And I don't speak Ya-vee.

It's <deleted> hard to get these people to open up.

So ........... I just keep learning. And I would encourage you to keep learning, too.

Good luck!

Yes it is, especially if you're not there in an official capacity.

On the other hand, if you are there in an official capacity then you should be fine once you've spent a bit of time there and got to know the right people but if you're not then frankly they'll just be thinking "<deleted> are these idiots doing here?"

The area is in all respects, if not a battleground - that is far too an emotive word; disputed territory, at least on the side if the natives.

The snag is that until recently 'Bangkok' failed to even recognise this simple fact. Now, thankfully, they are taking the threat a lot more seriously.

As to what solutions there are to offer is anyone's guess....

[HeavyDrinker]

Was that just a pop at me or do you actually have anything to say on the topic at hand?

You know nothing about me, You know nothing about what I may have or have not read.

You have no idea who I am, what I do for a living, nor where I work. You know nothing about where I have lived, studied or who I know.

Be very careful about getting on a high horse.

I take it you were involved in making the documentary in some way, hence your flame?

If you think you 'know ten times more than me and anyone on this forum' then please share your wondrous knowledge here, but tread carefully....

Surely you must realise calling yourself 'Heavy Drinker' won't encourage people to regard you as an expert witness,now will it?

But at least I know 2002 came after 2001...

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

He could be a heavy water or Kool Aide drinker.

Give him some props for being somewhat honest on the internet.

[bonobo]

Let's stay away from all the chest pounding and keep this discussion civil.

[rene123]

I can't imagine why someone would WILLINGLY choose to locate in a place like Pattani if you were not a local. I don't care WHICH side you endorse, the murder of innocent children and teachers is abhorent in the extreme. Trying to deal with ANYONE who would do such an act is impossible and the only solution is extermination. Islamic extremists are too far gone from anything resembling human that the only answer is annihilation.

The word "gulag" is an improper term in this situation. Jail or prison is more likely a better term. There was a pretty good documentary on the gulags of China for anyone who disagreed with the present day government.

[Soutpeel]

Andrew, Andrew...very disappointed in this thread...when I read "Thailands tropcial gulag"....thought it was the weekly installment of lets slag Pattaya off..

[andrew]

Andrew, Andrew...very disappointed in this thread...when I read "Thailands tropcial gulag"....thought it was the weekly installment of lets slag Pattaya off..

Sir, now that was funny.

Today is my birthday. If you'll excuse me, if now off out to get disgracefully drunk.

Enjoy your evening.

[andrew]

As to what solutions there are to offer is anyone's guess....

Let me just add that I respect your interest and willingness to learn about the Kingdom of Pattani.

Stay cool.

[HeavyDrinker]

Many happy returns Andrew!