I've Got Two Dads.... And They Adopted Me!

[isanbirder]

http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/ive-got-two-dads-and-they-adopted-me

Some recent research on children adopted by gay, lesbian, and heterosexual families suggests that the gay fathers are particularly successful.

[LeCharivari]

The big flaw in this study is the age of the children in the sample: 4 to 8 years old, with only a minimum of 12 months with their adoptive families - insufficient, on both counts, to provide any sort of realistic evidence.

Other studies of adults adopted when children by LGBT couples paint a far less rosy picture .

[isanbirder]

The big flaw in this study is the age of the children in the sample: 4 to 8 years old, with only a minimum of 12 months with their adoptive families - insufficient, on both counts, to provide any sort of realistic evidence.

Other studies of adults adopted when children by LGBT couples paint a far less rosy picture .

Any research of this nature is going to be bedevilled by the very small numbers of the sample.

[Jingthing]

If they found a study showing kids adopted by Dominican parents was better for the kids or worse for the kids, would they then decide to not allow people with Dominican background not to adopt kids? Of course not!

[isanbirder]

If they found a study showing kids adopted by Dominican parents was better for the kids or worse for the kids, would they then decide to not allow people with Dominican background not to adopt kids? Of course not!

Irrelevant, JT!

If a study of gay adoptions shows positive results, I say take advantage of it, even if it is a small study.

[Jingthing]

If they found a study showing kids adopted by Dominican parents was better for the kids or worse for the kids, would they then decide to not allow people with Dominican background not to adopt kids? Of course not!

Irrelevant, JT!

If a study of gay adoptions shows positive results, I say take advantage of it, even if it is a small study.

It's not irrelevant. It's about equal rights. Period. Why are gay people being singled out for this kind of scrutiny? Why not Dominicans? I doubt you would think it is irrelevant if you read George Will's homophobic piece about this kind of thing:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2013/03/george_will_on_gay_marriage_the_conservative_columnist_s_rejection_of_the.html

I'm saying don't buy into the meme that research studies, positive or negative, should matter when it comes to equal civil rights. Not the same thing as the author of that article, but that's my opinion. Opponents are ALWAYS going to be able to come up with negative studies.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[scorecard]

Why not Domonocans, why not so called str8 couples, plenty of examples there of adoptive parents who wouldn't score so well.

[tombkk]

The big flaw in this study is the age of the children in the sample: 4 to 8 years old, with only a minimum of 12 months with their adoptive families - insufficient, on both counts, to provide any sort of realistic evidence.

Other studies of adults adopted when children by LGBT couples paint a far less rosy picture .

Do you have links to the studies?

[endure]

It's got nothing at all to do with 'equal rights'. It's to do with whether children adopted by gay parents are brought up as well as those adopted by straight couples. Who the hell is George Will? For once can we keep shouty US politics out of this?

[LeCharivari]

The big flaw in this study is the age of the children in the sample: 4 to 8 years old, with only a minimum of 12 months with their adoptive families - insufficient, on both counts, to provide any sort of realistic evidence.

Other studies of adults adopted when children by LGBT couples paint a far less rosy picture .

Do you have links to the studies?

Yes, but if you have Google, Bing or any other search engine you can make your own selection without my paving the way for an accusation of "cherry picking" studies as is often the case here ... and if you read the article referred to you will find some of these links there.

Edited March 20, 2013 by LeCharivari

[wellred]

How does a child brought up by 2 men learn to respect women? I suspect by removing the women from the equation the child will grow up with a distorted view of the world.

Should be banned imo.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[LeCharivari]

It's got nothing at all to do with 'equal rights'. It's to do with whether children adopted by gay parents are brought up as well as those adopted by straight couples. Who the hell is George Will? For once can we keep shouty US politics out of this?

Ditto ... in fact DITTO since shouting for no reason now appears to be the norm here.

Of course these studies are important - not because of equal rights for LGBT couples to adopt but because of the child's rights to have as good adoptive parents as possible.

If the studies all showed that LGBT couples were consistently bad parents, for example, that would constitute reasonable grounds for LGBT rights to adopt to at least be reviewed, if not rescinded - but they don't.

The idea that "gay rights" should somehow take priority over other human rights such as the rights of the child is selfish in the extreme - no wonder we are our own worst enemies and alienate people at times.

[sustento]

How does a child brought up by a single parent learn to respect members of the opposite sex?

How does a child brought up by a single parent learn to respect members of the opposite gender? By the way they're brought up. Good parents are good parents regardless of their gender.

Fortunately for those children who need a loving home rather than an impersonal institution as a parent same-sex adoption isn't banned in many countries.

If straight adopters were willing to adopt those children who need it (including the awkward teenies) rather than insist on oochie coochie babies which they're willing to travel half way round the world to obtain the question might be moot. Gay adopters get dumped with the kids no-one else can be bothered with.

Edited March 20, 2013 by sustento

[LeCharivari]

How does a child brought up by 2 men learn to respect women? I suspect by removing the women from the equation the child will grow up with a distorted view of the world. Should be banned imo.Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Are you suggesting that single parents are also "banned"?

That if one parent dies then the remaining one is given a set period within which to re-marry after which their children are taken away?

Or that "a child brought up by two men" will never see a woman, such as a school teacher or another parent, whom they can respect because they will be raised in some sort of gay, male only community?

There are a number of rational, cohesive arguments against adoption by LGBT couples, but yours is not one of them.

[LeCharivari]

....

Gay adopters get dumped with the kids no-one else can be bothered with.

I'm not sure if that's correct, particularly with regard to adopting teenagers who are themselves LGBT, and although its DHHS policy in the USA I think its an incredibly dangerous policy unless its aimed only at LGBT parents who already have proven experience of parenting teenagers rather than first time parents.

Edited March 20, 2013 by LeCharivari

[Jingthing]

...

If the studies all showed that LGBT couples were consistently bad parents, for example, that would constitute reasonable grounds for LGBT rights to adopt to at least be reviewed, if not rescinded - but they don't.

...

If the studies all showed that DOMINICAN couples were consistently bad parents, for example, that would constitute reasonable grounds for DOMINICAN rights to adopt to at least be reviewed, if not rescinded - but nobody bothers studying DOMINICAN couples because that would be a discriminatory premise.

My obvious point is implied. Just because my opinion about this isn't popular with the crowd here, doesn't make it invalid.

The idea that "gay rights" should somehow take priority over other human rights such as the rights of the child is selfish in the extreme - no wonder we are our own worst enemies and alienate people at times.

That's sounds suspiciously like what Papa Francisco has said about gays adopting children, that it is discriminatory against children. I guess he would be happy to know he has allies in his medieval dogma among gay people.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[stoneyboy]

Elton and David,big love to those happy parents xxxx

[candypants]

How does a child brought up by 2 men learn to respect women? I suspect by removing the women from the equation the child will grow up with a distorted view of the world. Should be banned imo. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

im a single straight father raising my child. will my child have a distorted view too?

why would a child with 2 gay fathers who respect women have a more distorted view than a child with 1 straight father who respects women?

i grew in a 'traditional' up with a hetero couple where the man worked and the woman cooked, and they stuck together until death with little in common and steadily diverging interests. that to me seems odd as hell in this day and age.

it would seem if you are mired in tradition and wish to enforce archaic gender roles, then gay adoption ain't for you.

Edited March 20, 2013 by candypants

[Jingthing]

It's got nothing at all to do with 'equal rights'. It's to do with whether children adopted by gay parents are brought up as well as those adopted by straight couples. Who the hell is George Will? For once can we keep shouty US politics out of this?

If it has nothing to do with civil rights, why aren't ethnic groups singled out for special studies on their suitability as parents? In my life experience and I'm sure yours, I've seen so many parents of all kinds who it was clear had no business being parents in the first place. If they cross a line, the state takes their kids. But they are all ALLOWED to have kids in free nations and ALLOWED to make their own mistakes. The state doesn't say this ethnic group has a high rate of lousy parenting, even if it does, so people from this ethnic group can't adopt or should be sterilized.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[endure]

This was a study conducted by an English university into English adoptive parents and their children to discover whether adopted children are any better or worse off because their adoptive parents are gay. It's nothing to do with the 'state' and whatever its conclusions it will make no difference as to whether gay couples can adopt or not because in the UK they've legally been able to adopt for over a decade now. It's just a bit of research. No-one is going to be sterilised as a result of it. It's not relevant to the US or anywhere else apart from the UK so don't fret about your precious 'civil rights' We don't need them - we already have them.

[Jingthing]

This was a study conducted by an English university into English adoptive parents and their children to discover whether adopted children are any better or worse off because their adoptive parents are gay. It's nothing to do with the 'state' and whatever its conclusions it will make no difference as to whether gay couples can adopt or not because in the UK they've legally been able to adopt for over a decade now. It's just a bit of research. No-one is going to be sterilised as a result of it. It's not relevant to the US or anywhere else apart from the UK so don't fret about your precious 'civil rights' We don't need them - we already have them.

I have nothing against ACADEMIC research. Obviously.

Are you directing everyone on this thread to avoid any discussion about the political uses of such studies (in any country), whether the conclusions are positive or negative, in any country? Because my impression was that door had already been opened and we were discussing that part of it as well.

I happen to disagree that academic studies in the UK or anywhere else are irrelevant to other countries. Academic studies are followed internationally these days, and they often are cited for support of POLITICAL agendas across borders. In this case, pro-gay and/or anti-gay.

On the sterilization issue, it isn't unheard of in human societies for people of certain ethnic groups or other kinds of stigmatized identities to be sterilized. There's always rationales for such horrors, aren't there?

Edited March 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[endure]

I'm not directing anyone to do anything. I was hoping that we could keep this discussion focused on the original subject of the OP rather than wandering off into the usual slightly hysterical rants about politics and civil rights although I must admit you've won a prize with the mention of sterilisation.

[Jingthing]

I've won a prize, have I? Somehow I doubt there's any cash money involved.

I wasn't the only one who mentioned a political use of such studies. However, if people here aren't interested in the potential political uses and abuses of academic studies and how that might be a kind of trap, so be it.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

How does a child brought up by 2 men learn to respect women? I suspect by removing the women from the equation the child will grow up with a distorted view of the world. Should be banned imo. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Obviously, a child with two dads will see women in normal daily interaction and learn to respect them like they learn to respect all human beings. The series Modern Family shows a good example.

I am more worried about children growing up with a straight couple who don't know any gay people: How can the children ever learn to respect gays?

I am worried about children growing up with parents that fight on a regular basis, or that ignore each other: How can they ever learn to respect other people?

[tominbkk]

How does a child brought up by 2 men learn to respect women? I suspect by removing the women from the equation the child will grow up with a distorted view of the world. Should be banned imo. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Troll!

[tominbkk]

It's strange in this day and age that people are still judging a person's worth based on their sexual orientation.

Your worth needs to be measured on how you treat and respect others, and the contributions you make to your community specifically and society in general.

Who you want to (consensually) <deleted> is irrelevant.

Edited March 21, 2013 by tominbkk

[isanbirder]

It's strange in this day and age that people are still judging a person's worth based on their sexual orientation.

Your worth needs to be measured on how you treat and respect others, and the contributions you make to your community specifically and society in general.

Who you want to (consensually) <deleted> is irrelevant.

All the gay people contributing to this forum know this, but unfortunately there are a lot of people who don't. That's why gay people have to fight for their rights.

[ironbark]

Since most (maybe all) the gay men I know we're raised in a heterosexual environment then clearly mixed gender families caused them to be homosexual and should be banned.

[Jingthing]

Another link supporting my opinion that you can't really separate research studies about children raised in gay families from the politics of gay equality:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/influential-pediatricians-group-backs-gay-marriage-says-kids-raised-that-way-do-just-as-well/2013/03/20/2982882a-91b8-11e2-9173-7f87cda73b49_story.html

CHICAGO — The nation’s most influential pediatrician’s group has
endorsed gay marriage, saying a stable relationship between parents
regardless of sexual orientation contributes to a child’s health and
well-being.

The American Academy of Pediatrics’ new policy, published
online Thursday, cites research showing that the parents’ sexual
orientation has no effect on a child’s development. Kids fare just as
well in gay or straight families when they are nurturing and financially
and emotionally stable, the academy says.

[endure]

Another link supporting my opinion that you can't really separate research studies about children raised in gay families from the politics of gay equality:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/influential-pediatricians-group-backs-gay-marriage-says-kids-raised-that-way-do-just-as-well/2013/03/20/2982882a-91b8-11e2-9173-7f87cda73b49_story.html

CHICAGO — The nation’s most influential pediatrician’s group has

endorsed gay marriage, saying a stable relationship between parents

regardless of sexual orientation contributes to a child’s health and

well-being.

The American Academy of Pediatrics’ new policy, published

online Thursday, cites research showing that the parents’ sexual

orientation has no effect on a child’s development. Kids fare just as

well in gay or straight families when they are nurturing and financially

and emotionally stable, the academy says.

Maybe not in the USA.