Elderly Man With Five Year Overstay

[cup-O-coffee]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Or, more in line with the Thai mentality: They don't want immigration to sink their claws in and lose all hope of getting any money at all. First come, first served, if you get my meaning.

They need pauper's farms for people like this. It's too inhuman to toss them out on the street, and too good to give them a ticket out of their problems.

[Phronesis]

Do nothing.

With every week that passes his 20 thousand baht overstay fine becomes a bigger bargain.

[yogi100]

as an ex-drinking friend of the older gentleman in question i would like to clear up some things.

Firstly the older man is from the netherlands and for the last 5 years that we have all known him

he has lied, cheated and fabricated everything.

he told everyone he is a very rich man who sold his business in holland before coming

to thailand. he met a lovely thai woman who took care of him for 3 years( non financial) he told us and her

that he has no children and that his ex-wive died of cancer in holland. in the last 4 years we sort

of realized that all his stories were lies but we still socialized with him even when he could have a temper

when he was drinlking.

when he got into the motorbike accident we tried to find his family through facebook and got in contact

with his sister, she told us many not so nice stories about him and brought us in contact with his 3

children!!!! they all want nothing to do with him for reasons i wont get into. also his exwife never had

cancer, he did a runner from holland with loads of debts to government and friends.

he has lied to us that he had a retirement visa wich also turns out to be a lie.

i dont wish him harm but i made the decision that i want nothing to do with him as have his other

"drinking friends"and the thai family that was really good to him

rick

Karma. It's never a good idea to associate with those of whom you hold suspicions as one day all our pigeons come home to roost and most of us naturally want to help someone in trouble especially a friend.

A pal of mine took pity on a destitute drunken scrounger and out of compassion paid for the fellow's flight home to the UK from BKK. It was three years ago and to this day he has never received so much as a word of thanks.

[uptheos]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

As a non-resident he won't be entitled to treatment in the UK.

Not true!nobody in the UK get's refused Medical treatment,however long they have been away. nothing to do with residency,more to do with humanity!

Quite correct, but as you can see from the majority of answers, that this thread isn't big on humanity.

[tijnebijn]

From original post it appeared, and still does to me, that this person would not be able to travel by commercial means even if able to leave hospital. Is this wrong? All this talk of leaving; but OP painted a picture of a dying old man "It's doubtful he'll ever be well enough to survive the rigors of transport to Bangkok and IDC". It that is true there is no way he could safely travel around the world in his condition and I believe it would be better to use his pension to pay hospital and last stage care providers than overstay charges or plane fares for a flight he could not take. Immigration is not interested in making his life more difficult and hospital obviously is taking a humanitarian stand. There are times when 'legalization' has limitations and perhaps should not be the priority.

Indeed . I feel the urge to respond to your comment , because in my opinion it is the best advise given so far , the OP should seriously consider .

I believe she should and could make a deal with the hospital and don't make such a huss about his overstay , don't rub his violation in Thais' face ,

in my experience in Thailand and I speak fluently Thai which helps I can tell you , they won't care and will be surprised if you can arrange a deal for the old man to pay his total bill eventually by his pension . Rent out a modest place , pocket money and all the rest pay off the bill , when his getting better , if ,and he's payed of his debt arrange an airticket , overstay fine and let him face it , no scare mongering is the best in my opinion , as Lopburi said as another reason for him is to take a humanitarian stand first .

[uptheos]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

Why? Nowhere does the OP says he is from the UK. A UK expat returnning to the UK isn't entitled either.

I never said he's from UK I made that quite clear and was giving an example, but you haven't read the posts have you?

It's a load of <deleted> about a returning expat getting nothing. You can quote as many rules off google or direct gov websites etc as you like and I will still say it's a load of <deleted>. How can I say with such surety.....that's my business and wouldn't be of interest to you anyway.

[tijnebijn]

This makes me think back to when I was in my 20's and I was helping a friend lay some tiles in an old people's home in Australia. There was an old man laying in bed crying and calling for his son over and over again. It was terrible! The rest of the residents were just sat staring off into space.

At the time I was just glad to be out of there but now I am in my early 50's it does make me wonder from time to time what it would be like to be old and frail in Thailand...

better than being old and frail in your home country!warm climate cheap food and yes compassionate thais.I would rather take my chances here.this can happen to any of us...........and when your times up its up.I have seen first hand many a thai lady/family helping to take care of fragile old farangs that simply by their actions in life do not deserve the kindness.but who's to judge really.If i was this guy i would sit tight and try and pay off the hospital bill with his pension,lay low under the radar regarding immigration issues and stay out of hospital,it will eat all yor money up eventually...............and we all have to go sometime,but somehow i would want to help the thai family/girlfriend who is still helping me.

exactly , agree totally .

[mandee]

Hopefully I will never find myself in a similar situation but am intrigued by the possibly acrophyl tales of "many", having taken "refuge" in monasteries. I am partially prepared en cas d'emergence, being totally bald.

[lemonjelly]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

Most Embassies, although they will try their hardest not to, would have no option other than repatriate him (if they are unable to get money from friends and family). When he arrives in his home country his passport would be impounded until the money was repaid - as for the overstay fine Embassies are not allowed to interfere in local law so that part would be left to the local immigration police as to whether they wished to press charges.

This sounds pretty much like I thought it would be, once on 'home' soil with nothing they have to do something, they can't throw you out into the street, it would make front page news in the person's home country at the speed of light..

The guy is not from the UK but others here have said if he was sent back he would get nothing and I say rubbish!

Organisations like Age UK, Shelter etc would have a field day. The guy would get treatment, no question. He would get shelter, no question and you can't be without money to buy food in the UK, so he would get that. Once he's been back a while and settled he will get all the benefits he's entitled to whether anyone on here from the UK, thinks so or not. He would be classed as extremely vulnerable and get looked after accordingly. What do people think the UK gov would do deport him?

UK citizens who stay out of the country for a period of time (can't remember exact amount) are no longer classed as resident and are entitled to very little.

[NoshowJones]

This

can be a good warning to us all to make sure you have enough back up savings to

cover all eventualities and also some sort of medical insurance to cover any unexpected

health problems that might come about, rather than just spend your twilight

years pissing it up in some cheap bar.

Why does everyone go on about health insurance? Over sixties can't get it, younger ex pats may take it out, but when they get older the premiums will keep going up, if you are from the UK, you won't even get your'e annual pension increases. Insurance companies only want your'e money, then they fill their forms with small print to avoid paying out in the event of any claim. If insurance companies would play fair, I'm sure a lot more ex pats would be insured, but everything is against them.

[siampolee]

Some years back I was acquainted with a fellow Englishman ( 55 year old lazy tosspot he was too) who lived in an apartment block near our house.He confided in me that he had a five year overstay what could I suggest to help him. I replied ''not a lot''

I suggested he tried to either leave Thailand via a land border, take a boat from the quay at Pak Naam or go out from Don Muang as it was in those days.

He took my advice concerning the Don Muang avenue of escape and bought a one way ticket back to the U.K. stuffed twenty thousand baht in his passport and off he went.,

Cleared check in no problem, got to passport control/ immigration , guy flipped his passport open grunted and directed him to a counter in a corner where he paid his twenty thousand baht and that was it .

Off he went never I am glad to say to return again.

I had taken him to the airport and was informed by him via snail mail as we used in those days as to the sequence of events. Seems as if you present yourself with a ticket and the cash you're on your way Jose no problems.

Although of course one should never count on a positive result though.

Edited March 23, 2013 by siampolee

[lopburi3]

Several racist posts and replies removed.

[uptheos]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

Most Embassies, although they will try their hardest not to, would have no option other than repatriate him (if they are unable to get money from friends and family). When he arrives in his home country his passport would be impounded until the money was repaid - as for the overstay fine Embassies are not allowed to interfere in local law so that part would be left to the local immigration police as to whether they wished to press charges.

This sounds pretty much like I thought it would be, once on 'home' soil with nothing they have to do something, they can't throw you out into the street, it would make front page news in the person's home country at the speed of light..

The guy is not from the UK but others here have said if he was sent back he would get nothing and I say rubbish!

Organisations like Age UK, Shelter etc would have a field day. The guy would get treatment, no question. He would get shelter, no question and you can't be without money to buy food in the UK, so he would get that. Once he's been back a while and settled he will get all the benefits he's entitled to whether anyone on here from the UK, thinks so or not. He would be classed as extremely vulnerable and get looked after accordingly. What do people think the UK gov would do deport him?

UK citizens who stay out of the country for a period of time (can't remember exact amount) are no longer classed as resident and are entitled to very little.

Technically you're correct, but in practice (and I'm referring to OAP's) you will get ordinarily resident in a few weeks and be entitled to absolutely every benefit going. You will receive free hospital treatment as soon as you step off the plane if you have a British Passport. In fact the sicker you are, the quicker all the social services will act!

Scenario, stretched out on a LHR bench, looking ill, no money, nothing only a passport.......what do you think might happen, get looked after or deported? They certainly won't leave you on the bench and if you say you want to die, they'll act even quicker as these things make the press at the speed of light.. Any sick person from the UK with no assets here...go home, they will look after you......rules are flexible even in the UK.

[indyuk]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

It is the responsibility of the host country. Don't expect your own embassy to hold your hand, you must make your own arrangements. Having things like health insurence, people who can help you in case you are sick etc is something you must consider if you want to live her, just like living in any other country.

Some people with Thai wifes/family will become demented and lose their ability to communicate with them in Thai and only start speaking in their own language. It are things you must prepare for, just as you must prepare a will for when you die.

You pretty much described my situation in Thailand, except I am not broke (yet) and my Thai wife has done my 90 day reports regularly and renews my OA visa annually at Chonburi-Pattaya immigration office on time for some years now. I am only 72 years of age yet have no health insurance because BUPA cancelled it when I reached 65 years. Most septarians and octarians in Pattaya do something simular myself. This note is to advise other retirees to have an option B plan. The sad thing about is that many Thai's have told me to "go home" <deleted>.

[hellodolly]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

Yes but there Embassy will not help him get there. We had helped a Brit in very similar conditions. The Chiang Mai council in effect said to bad. Fortunately their was a member of a Christian organization who took him under their wing and got him home to England where he could be helped.

Ask Nancy about the help from some of the foreign Embassies. Some are F-- off and some what can we do.

[uptheos]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

Yes but there Embassy will not help him get there. We had helped a Brit in very similar conditions. The Chiang Mai council in effect said to bad. Fortunately their was a member of a Christian organization who took him under their wing and got him home to England where he could be helped.

Ask Nancy about the help from some of the foreign Embassies. Some are F-- off and some what can we do.

Thank you for your advice, I have been involved with a sad case with Nancy before.

[BkkMikey]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

A passport is an ID..

[lopburi3]

Off-topic and flame posts removed.

[Naam]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

the same goes for most European countries........ north of the Alps.

[uptheos]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

A passport is an ID..

I qualified this statement in a previous post......sorry, can't recall which number.

[Arkady]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

The British embassy provide them unlimited use of a Skype phone to contact friends or relatives to ask for funds and give them the name of a temple that will let them sleep for free and eat what's left over from the monks' alms. If they are ex-servicemen, they will also give them contact details of the British Legion in Thailand.

[Arkady]

Accordng to law he can be incarcerated by Immigration pending prosecution and could face a prison sentence for overstay in addition to the 20k fine but in practice Immigration just charges them the 20k fine on the spot and off they go. I don't think Immigration would relish the paperwork, hassle and bad publicity of detaining him when they can take the line of least resistance and send him on his way with a fine. If he can't the fine though they will imprison him. I don't see any advantage in turning himself into Immigration beforehand, as suggested by Mario, since there is already a clear cut procedure for an on the spot maximum fine at the airport. Going to Immigration before that only tempts them to detain him until his flight his due to depart.

This story is a sad illustration of what is likely to happen to a lot of retirees who come out to the land of milk and honey in their late 50s or early 60s without sufficient planning and thought about what they are going to do in their 70s without health insurance and with declining real value of pensions.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Arkady

[lopburi3]

Solicitation off-topic post and replies removed per forum rules.

[endure]

"Does the country that he's from have any newspapers that delight in embarrassing their government? Couldn't you get a story in the news media of the country that he's from?"

With all due respect, I don't think the government should have to bail us out of our personal decisions. Most of us have governments that are spilling red ink trying to take care of everyone. We used to call it socialism, and with disdain. I look at deficits with disdain, even though I see them coming from socialism.

Also with the greatest of respect if my country can find billions of pounds to fight wars across the world I'm more than happy for them to spend a few quid getting an old bloke home to die if that's what he wants.

[david555]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

As a non-resident he won't be entitled to treatment in the UK.

He'll be facing a grim time if he returns to the UK.

In my Eu country from moment back on the territory some is untitled to full medical/ soc. security as before as a pensioner , as because you obtained that in your working life , & and even not in that situation our law state that any person on our territory is untitled for assistance as they have to do for even illegals (and there are many )

[SparklingCascades]

The gentleman need to put together money for fine and buy one-way ticket out; preferably for travel late on-the-day of paying the fine or for travel on the day after paying fine. Take a receipt from Immigration for money paid. Make sure receipt is stamped, signed and passport is properly stamped, signed.

To do this - visit an Immigration Office along with a friend (not farang drinking buddies or farang-chasing g.f) as one needs a solid witness when paying a 'large' fine in cash.

DO NOT PAY 'big' fines at the airport when one is alone in front of a policeman. Have been cases of cash vanishing before the eyes and the hapless farang returns to prison to 'pay again' some other day.

[SparklingCascades]

Accordng to law he can be incarcerated by Immigration pending prosecution and could face a prison sentence for overstay in addition to the 20k fine but in practice Immigration just charges them the 20k fine on the spot and off they go. I don't think Immigration would relish the paperwork, hassle and bad publicity of detaining him when they can take the line of least resistance and send him on his way with a fine. If he can't the fine though they will imprison him. I don't see any advantage in turning himself into Immigration beforehand, as suggested by Mario, since there is already a clear cut procedure for an on the spot maximum fine at the airport. Going to Immigration before that only tempts them to detain him until his flight his due to depart.

This story is a sad illustration of what is likely to happen to a lot of retirees who come out to the land of milk and honey in their late 50s or early 60s without sufficient planning and thought about what they are going to do in their 70s without health insurance and with declining real value of pensions.

Pension? wot's that? Thought it was a place in which people lived not something on which people lived?

Edited March 23, 2013 by SparklingCascades

[lopburi3]

I have not seen any report of "cash vanishing" and fines are routinely paid at airport. That is where the fine is paid unless stopped by police and court ordered fine imposed. To pay elsewhere requires your detention and paid police escort to airport for flight so immigration will normally advise to pay at airport even if you try to do.

[TechnikaIII]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

Questionable. I am British born with British Passport, and having been away for years, I was denied NHS until I was resident in the UK again for atleast nine months.

[aboctok]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

I think that A Thai security guard would call the police. Not a good option.

Why would a security guard ever call the police if a national of that embassy turned up? You don't have to reveal your entire sorry story to the guard at the gate. If you have a passport matching the brand name of the embassy, of course they'll let you in.