Thai Govt's Loan Bill: Debate To Focus On Potential For Corruption, Huge Debt Burden

[webfact]

LOAN BILL
2-pronged attack planned
Khanittha Thepphajorn
The Nation


Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra speaks to the media yesterday about her alleged concealment of assets in connection with a Bt30-million loan she gave to her husband

Debate to focus on potential for corruption, huge debt burden

BANGKOK: -- Up to 60 opposition MPs will debate against the Bt2-trillion loan bill, questioning its suitability and potential for corruption, the chief opposition whip said yesterday.

Jurin Laksanavisit told a press conference that the Democrat and Bhum Jai Thai parties had designated some 60 MPs to debate against the bill.

The House has scheduled Thursday and Friday for the first reading of the bill, which would authorise the Finance Ministry to obtain loans worth Bt2 trillion for development of transport infrastructure.

Jurin said the opposition would be allowed 12-and-a-half hours to debate the bill, with a four-hour extension if necessary. He said opposition whips were concerned about two points related to the bill.

First, they feared infrastructure loans might be abused or siphoned off, as with alleged corruption in the rice-pledging scheme.

Second, they feared the loans would burden the public with up to Bt5 trillion in debt because they would attract Bt3 trillion in interest that the government would have to repay. He said the period of debt repayment could stretch across 12 governments.

Jurin said opposition whips were calling on the government to refrain from using the "blackmail tactic" of bringing up alleged corruption in the Strengthening Thailand loan legislation passed during the last Democrat-led administration. "If the [government] coalition uses that tactic, it will waste time for debate on the Bt2-trillion loan bill," Jurin said.

Democrat MP and whip Sansern Samalapha said the opposition would use the debate to point out that the government would seek loans for projects that had not yet been approved by Cabinet.

Bhum Jai Thai MP Supachai Jaisamut, an opposition whip, said seven Bhum Jai Thai MPs would take part in the debate, including Chai Chidchob, Boonjong Wongtrairat, Sopon Sarum, and Rungroj Thongsri.

Supachai said Bhum Jai Thai would note it may be inappropriate to seek the loans now, when the country is not in good economic shape. He said Boonjong would debate the general terms of the bill while Chai would focus on alleged irregularities in preparing the budget for the projects.

Supachai said he would point out that loans stemming from the bill would violate fiscal discipline. Sopon said Bhum Jai Thai would be given two hours, and that he would conclude the debate.

Chuwit Kamolvisit, Rak Prathet Thai party-list MP, said he would contribute by highlighting problems related to the country's transport system.


-- The Nation 2013-03-27

[fareastguy]

We already know this is going to be a scam from start to a very messy finish..

A Japanese company has already started alarm bells ringing by saying that the transport system that Thailand is asking for should only cost half of what Thai firms are quoting !!

No surprises there.. par for the course.

But we also know that the Yingluk administration has emptied the till, so it needs to be topped up again, thus the higher figure.

Then she needs to fund the "rice scam" for a few more years to keep the votes & middle men in her pocket.

Then officials of course there's the need for all concerned to get 30% or more graft !!

Transparency.. not as long as my arse h**e points to ground!!

[bigbamboo]

Corruption by those in power in Thailand is endemic. It is the one of the essences of Thainess.

[NongKhaiKid]

Corruption by those in power in Thailand is endemic. It is the one of the essences of Thainess.

Exactly yet they have to debate the" possibility for corruption ".! How can anyone take this seriously ?

[Ricardo]

When I was in Greece a few years ago, the ordinary locals were all incensed that they were going to be paying for the corruption-ridden Olympics for many more years to come, yet much of the money had disappeared in corruption. And the news only got worse for them as we know.

This 2,2 Trillion-Baht 50-year loan has all the potential, to become an economic-millstone round the necks of the Thai economy and poor, in exactly the same way ... unless the benefits & payback are spelled-out clearly in the governments' plans for infrastructure-improvements.

The current administration are already having trouble paying the car-rebates, even though they only had to reserve the funds last year, out of the taxes-paid when the new cars were initially purchased. And they're also having trouble funding the rice-scheme, unable to reimburse the BAAC, and instead merely giving them permission to borrow more short-term in order to keep the whole gravy-train rolling.

The free-tablet-computers scheme was late & mismanaged, selecting an overseas manufacturer which didn't have capacity to deliver, on the contract.

The minimum-pay 'only-a-pre-election-promise' was delivered late, so that inflation had eroded the actual benefit, to the poor. And so on ...

Would you trust this government with a massive long-term loan, out of your savings, I certainly would not !

So these debates will need to be thorough, examining the schemes for which the funds are supposedly destined, and following them carefully to ensure that the claimed-benefits are actually real and are then achieved. Anything less could be a disaster for the country !

[chainarong]

As said before , this is not a good idea, this 2tn Bht loan, your forward estimate planning should or would indicate that Thailand cannot afford this, as well as the burden of other large outstanding loans.

[Locationthailand]

A lot of people forget in 1990 Thailand was already doing 1% of the world's GDP and was predicted by 2000 to do 2%. That is no mean feat for a third world country but the economic crash on 1997 put paid to reaching that goal. Thailand still has huge potential if they can keep the checks and balances working. Borrowing money is a fault of governments globally. It is usually done by people who have no actual business experience and the projections of budgets are 'massaged' by accountants and actuaries to make it look okay to undertake the borrowing. But enter the old story of corruption, loaded contracts and so on. Thailand would be far better 'trading out' of their present liquidity issues and looking to enhance growth without running up debt to fill the pockets of corrupt people. Huge govt 'wish list' infrastructure is great to keep in mind but unless the dollar cost averaging of ROI is based against expenditure as well as servicing or retiring the countries debt is taken into account, this is simply wishful thinking and being undertaken for all the wrong reasons, especially when we know who the beneficiaries will be.

[arthurboy]

Opposition MP's to question the bills 'suitability and potential for corruption'.

Don't make me laugh.

1. Corruption is always a certainty, irrelevant of the people in power.
2. The opposition MP's don't have their noses deep enough in the trough at this time, so their cut won't be as much.

Let's not ever forget, most people in Thailand enter politics precisely because they can make money from corrupt practices and underhand business opportunities. Morals, ethics and ideology don't ever come in to it.

If you think the opposition MP's have suddenly seen the light that their role is to work for the people and betterment of Thailand, think again.

[MunterHunter]

Opposition MP's to question the bills 'suitability and potential for corruption'.

Don't make me laugh.

• Corruption is always a certainty, irrelevant of the people in power.
• The opposition MP's don't have their noses deep enough in the trough at this time, so their cut won't be as much.

Let's not ever forget, most people in Thailand enter politics precisely because they can make money from corrupt practices and underhand business opportunities. Morals, ethics and ideology don't ever come in to it.

If you think the opposition MP's have suddenly seen the light that their role is to work for the people and betterment of Thailand, think again.

SO by that Rationale we should allow the PTP (Plunder Thailand Party) to take out this massive loan and consume as much of it as possible in corruption and kick-backs? Simply because you believe the opposition to be as corrupt as the governing party?

[arthurboy]

Opposition MP's to question the bills 'suitability and potential for corruption'.

Don't make me laugh.

• Corruption is always a certainty, irrelevant of the people in power.
• The opposition MP's don't have their noses deep enough in the trough at this time, so their cut won't be as much.

Let's not ever forget, most people in Thailand enter politics precisely because they can make money from corrupt practices and underhand business opportunities. Morals, ethics and ideology don't ever come in to it.

If you think the opposition MP's have suddenly seen the light that their role is to work for the people and betterment of Thailand, think again.

SO by that Rationale we should allow the PTP (Plunder Thailand Party) to take out this massive loan and consume as much of it as possible in corruption and kick-backs? Simply because you believe the opposition to be as corrupt as the governing party?

Hardly, and for the record, my post didn't indicate or even allude to that.

However, I do think that every political party - if indeed you can call them that - of any so-called political persuasion are all guilty of corruption.

Corruption - as an endemic institution - stands both inside and outside of politics in Thailand. It's simply that politics serves as a convenient smokescreen for a multitude of corrupt practices.

For example, do you think it matters to either the civil service or police - both of whom are known for their corrupt practices - who happens to be in power for them to plunder either state budgets or manipulate the system and their position with impunity?

Edited March 27, 2013 by arthurboy

[AleG]

How about hammering the point that for every Baht spent on this scheme (not even counting corruption) two and a half Baht will be paid as debt interest with zero benefit for the country?

I'm not a financial guru, but isn't this insane?

[WhizBang]

LOL... When I read the headline, my first thought was 'they are going to hold a debate to find new and unique ways to skim as much as possible off this huge pile of money'.

[SOTIRIOS]

....for a government that 'mismanaged' the distribution of emergency water supplies during the floods...

.....the amount of money that is passing through their hands these past few months...for....'projects'......this is ludicrous....

[Tatsujin]

potential my ass . . . it's a certainty . . .

[drdoom6996]

When I was in Greece a few years ago, the ordinary locals were all incensed that they were going to be paying for the corruption-ridden Olympics for many more years to come, yet much of the money had disappeared in corruption. And the news only got worse for them as we know.

This 2,2 Trillion-Baht 50-year loan has all the potential, to become an economic-millstone round the necks of the Thai economy and poor, in exactly the same way ... unless the benefits & payback are spelled-out clearly in the governments' plans for infrastructure-improvements.

The current administration are already having trouble paying the car-rebates, even though they only had to reserve the funds last year, out of the taxes-paid when the new cars were initially purchased. And they're also having trouble funding the rice-scheme, unable to reimburse the BAAC, and instead merely giving them permission to borrow more short-term in order to keep the whole gravy-train rolling.

The free-tablet-computers scheme was late & mismanaged, selecting an overseas manufacturer which didn't have capacity to deliver, on the contract.

The minimum-pay 'only-a-pre-election-promise' was delivered late, so that inflation had eroded the actual benefit, to the poor. And so on ...

Would you trust this government with a massive long-term loan, out of your savings, I certainly would not !

So these debates will need to be thorough, examining the schemes for which the funds are supposedly destined, and following them carefully to ensure that the claimed-benefits are actually real and are then achieved. Anything less could be a disaster for the country !

Spot on Sir. I agree with everything you have just said. But this debate is just more "sound bytes". They have to make it look good. What's too bad is that they will get the money, PTP has the votes, and will steal half of it before any project sees on thin baht.

[SOTIRIOS]

....for a government that 'mismanaged' the distribution of emergency water supplies during the floods...

.....the amount of money that is passing through their hands these past few months...for....'projects'......this is ludicrous....

[AleG]

How about hammering the point that for every Baht spent on this scheme (not even counting corruption) two and a half Baht will be paid as debt interest with zero benefit for the country?

I'm not a financial guru, but isn't this insane?

Ooops... my bad, it would be one and a half Baht of debt interest per Baht used on the actual projects (or siphoned out)

[EyesWideOpen]

Potential ??????? lol... Thailand has sat and watched western government go down in flames in massive governmental debt, and now they want to embark down the same path ??? That of course is separate from the massive corruption wthat will occur.

[PhilipCook]

Privatization of the SRT(State Railway of Thailand) would reduce the bloodletting of the government's coffers and modernize the rail transport system. Highways are a disgrace due to substandard roads being built/rebuilt/and then some and because trucks are not being severely and consistently enough for being overloaded. Privatize selected highways throughout the country and collect tolls to maintain them.

[siampolee]

One can only surmise that the current agenda to replace squat toilets for western style sit upon toilets is as a result of the upcoming outbreak of financial diarrhea that is about to hit Thailand if this harebrained reckless scheme to borrow 2 trillion baht actually goes through.

[muttley]

Privatization of the SRT(State Railway of Thailand) would reduce the bloodletting of the government's coffers and modernize the rail transport system. Highways are a disgrace due to substandard roads being built/rebuilt/and then some and because trucks are not being severely and consistently enough for being overloaded. Privatize selected highways throughout the country and collect tolls to maintain them.

Please note that said sub standard roads were the result of the totally corrupt "dust free roads" project, just one of the many projects undertaken during the short life of the previous governments 1.43 Trillion baht "Investing from strength to strength" loan back in 2009.

Edited March 27, 2013 by muttley

[kimamey]

Privatization of the SRT(State Railway of Thailand) would reduce the bloodletting of the government's coffers and modernize the rail transport system. Highways are a disgrace due to substandard roads being built/rebuilt/and then some and because trucks are not being severely and consistently enough for being overloaded. Privatize selected highways throughout the country and collect tolls to maintain them.

Please note that said sub standard roads were the result of the totally corrupt "dust free roads" project, just one of the many projects undertaken during the short life of the previous governments 1.43 Trillion baht "Investing from strength to strength" loan back in 2009.

I can't knowledgeably comment on the 'dust free roads project' although maybe you can give some details to help me. I'm a bit surprised that the substandard roads were due to the previous government considering how many there are. It may be true that some of them are due the previous government but that doesn't mean that the current government should come along and say 'That was a good idea, why don't we do the same?'

By the way you forgot to mention the military who by all accounts were in charge at the time of the previous government. Abhisit was just a puppet, or so I've heard.

[bigbamboo]

Privatization of the SRT(State Railway of Thailand) would reduce the bloodletting of the government's coffers and modernize the rail transport system. Highways are a disgrace due to substandard roads being built/rebuilt/and then some and because trucks are not being severely and consistently enough for being overloaded. Privatize selected highways throughout the country and collect tolls to maintain them.

Please note that said sub standard roads were the result of the totally corrupt "dust free roads" project, just one of the many projects undertaken during the short life of the previous governments 1.43 Trillion baht "Investing from strength to strength" loan back in 2009.

Haha!....... I remember those fabled dust free roads, one of many harebrained schemes that proves nearly all Thai politicians are either incompetent or greedy or both. It's all a question of scale.

[AleG]

One word I haven't heard about this whole scheme is "profit", How much profit will the HSR make to pay for it's construction?

[khunken]

Privatization of the SRT(State Railway of Thailand) would reduce the bloodletting of the government's coffers and modernize the rail transport system. Highways are a disgrace due to substandard roads being built/rebuilt/and then some and because trucks are not being severely and consistently enough for being overloaded. Privatize selected highways throughout the country and collect tolls to maintain them.

Totally disagree.

Privatisation of railways is a recipe for disaster - just look at what it did in the UK. In defence of the SRT, all governments have forced then to keep fares artificially low, thus losing large amounts of money, and refusing to fully compensate them for the losses. This has meant no investment in expansion & old rolling stock. I doubt if any private company would have survived under those conditions.

While far from perfect, the Thai highways (both toll-paying expressways & major arteries) are a boon to transport in the country. The country has a very good road network. Yes, more maintenance is required but privatising them is not the answer (seems like your answer to everything). Monopolies for the pals would be more like it.

[EyesWideOpen]

A quick question .....Who in the world would loan Thailand this amount of money knowing full well a fair amount is going to be siphoned off??

[longtom]

Second, they feared the loans would burden the public with up to Bt5

trillion in debt because they would attract Bt3 trillion in interest

that the government would have to repay. He said the period of debt

repayment could stretch across 12 governments.

Considering the average period a Thai governments is in power that would be closer to 30 governments.

Edited March 27, 2013 by longtom

[Locationthailand]

Privatization of the SRT(State Railway of Thailand) would reduce the bloodletting of the government's coffers and modernize the rail transport system. Highways are a disgrace due to substandard roads being built/rebuilt/and then some and because trucks are not being severely and consistently enough for being overloaded. Privatize selected highways throughout the country and collect tolls to maintain them.

Please note that said sub standard roads were the result of the totally corrupt "dust free roads" project, just one of the many projects undertaken during the short life of the previous governments 1.43 Trillion baht "Investing from strength to strength" loan back in 2009.

The roads I think the OP is referring to are well and truly the stablished ones prior to 2009. There has not been too much in the way of road construction other than the widening of the Pattaya BKK expressway and a bit on the outter areas.

[Robby nz]

No way.

They did that in NZ and the private Co (Japanese) promptly closed anything that wasn't making a good profit.

They even ripped up some of the rails and sold them.

Govt ended up having to buy back what little was left.

If I rember correctly the buy back price was 1 Dollar, the value of what was left.

[waza]

Privatization of the SRT(State Railway of Thailand) would reduce the bloodletting of the government's coffers and modernize the rail transport system. Highways are a disgrace due to substandard roads being built/rebuilt/and then some and because trucks are not being severely and consistently enough for being overloaded. Privatize selected highways throughout the country and collect tolls to maintain them.

Please note that said sub standard roads were the result of the totally corrupt "dust free roads" project, just one of the many projects undertaken during the short life of the previous governments 1.43 Trillion baht "Investing from strength to strength" loan back in 2009.

Wheres that debt now Muttley? Did they pay it off before the PTP took government or are you just full of Sh bad information?

Edited March 28, 2013 by waza