Loans not needed: Abhisit

Abhisit not needed: Thai voters.

I'm very surprised to see this coming from you. No opposition needed?

Abhisit is doing his job - the one he was elected to do. I know it's awkward when he makes sensible suggestions along the line of 'why is all the money needed now?'. The B300Bn plus for the flood abatement 'plan' was rushed through by emergency decree &, one year later, only a tiny portion is actually spent.

Yes, the country's infrastructure needs updating, especially the rail network. What is extremely doubtful is the need for high-speed trains. It's like a child going from crawling to running without learning how to walk.

So if a child omits crawling and jumps up to run all be it perhaps a little unsteadily (accepting there must be strict monitoring but not to the detriment of continued progress).......you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..........

Fine, but would you give that child the keys to the bank vault?

Fine, but would you give that child the keys to the bank vault?

(accepting there must be strict monitoring but not to the detriment of continued progress) - copied from the line you quoted

Loans not needed: Abhisit

Abhisit not needed: Thai voters.

I'm very surprised to see this coming from you. No opposition needed?

Abhisit is doing his job - the one he was elected to do. I know it's awkward when he makes sensible suggestions along the line of 'why is all the money needed now?'. The B300Bn plus for the flood abatement 'plan' was rushed through by emergency decree &, one year later, only a tiny portion is actually spent.

Yes, the country's infrastructure needs updating, especially the rail network. What is extremely doubtful is the need for high-speed trains. It's like a child going from crawling to running without learning how to walk.

So if a child omits crawling and jumps up to run all be it perhaps a little unsteadily (accepting there must be strict monitoring but not to the detriment of continued progress).......you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..........kind of explains your political leanings......and the Thai having experienced this type of mismanagement for centuries are criticised on this thread for accepting what happens as a fait accompli?..... here is an intersting article rather summing up the Democrats election campaign - Thai PM Abhisit's election campaign stalls (Reuters) http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/16/idINIndia-57727520110616 read it all especially the little snippet regarding a promient military gentleman......give PTP the funding and let Thai people exercise control (as far as it goes) in Thailand via the ballot box as it should be

give PTP the funding and let Thai people exercise control (as far as it goes) in Thailand via the ballot box as it should be.

The way I see it if you give PTP free rein of the funding and they put Thailand in debt for the next 50+ years and it turns out bad the ballot box will be too late. They like most polititions will have collected their 30+% and live happily ever after.

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spell people’s names correctly.

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Loans not needed: Abhisit

Abhisit not needed: Thai voters.

I'm very surprised to see this coming from you. No opposition needed?

Abhisit is doing his job - the one he was elected to do. I know it's awkward when he makes sensible suggestions along the line of 'why is all the money needed now?'. The B300Bn plus for the flood abatement 'plan' was rushed through by emergency decree &, one year later, only a tiny portion is actually spent.

Yes, the country's infrastructure needs updating, especially the rail network. What is extremely doubtful is the need for high-speed trains. It's like a child going from crawling to running without learning how to walk.

So if a child omits crawling and jumps up to run all be it perhaps a little unsteadily (accepting there must be strict monitoring but not to the detriment of continued progress).......you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..........kind of explains your political leanings......and the Thai having experienced this type of mismanagement for centuries are criticised on this thread for accepting what happens as a fait accompli?..... here is an intersting article rather summing up the Democrats election campaign - Thai PM Abhisit's election campaign stalls (Reuters) http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/16/idINIndia-57727520110616 read it all especially the little snippet regarding a promient military gentleman......give PTP the funding and let Thai people exercise control (as far as it goes) in Thailand via the ballot box as it should be

Quote: you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what

you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..

I never said anything of the sort. You further compound your infantile (appropriately) effort to put words in my mouth by using a simple analogy to pronounce on my political leanings. I hope it didn't take you too long to come up with such rubbish.

Then you crown the inability to really answer the question I posed by saying that PTP should be given the money on trust. You are seriously deluded to suggest that they should be trusted with anything given their record on financial accountability. I'd give my money to the Bank of Cyprus before the corrupt lot in charge here.

Loans not needed: Abhisit

Abhisit not needed: Thai voters.

I'm very surprised to see this coming from you. No opposition needed?

Just a joke KK, just a joke.

Loans not needed: Abhisit

Abhisit not needed: Thai voters.

Shave and a haircut, two bits!

Loans not needed: Abhisit

Abhisit not needed: Thai voters.

I'm very surprised to see this coming from you. No opposition needed?

Just a joke KK, just a joke.

Ok - must have missed the smiley. Apologies.

So if a child omits crawling and jumps up to run all be it perhaps a little unsteadily (accepting there must be strict monitoring but not to the detriment of continued progress).......you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..........kind of explains your political leanings......and the Thai having experienced this type of mismanagement for centuries are criticised on this thread for accepting what happens as a fait accompli?..... here is an intersting article rather summing up the Democrats election campaign - Thai PM Abhisit's election campaign stalls (Reuters) http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/16/idINIndia-57727520110616 read it all especially the little snippet regarding a promient military gentleman......give PTP the funding and let Thai people exercise control (as far as it goes) in Thailand via the ballot box as it should be

Quote: you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what

you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..

I never said anything of the sort. You further compound your infantile (appropriately) effort to put words in my mouth by using a simple analogy to pronounce on my political leanings. I hope it didn't take you too long to come up with such rubbish.

Then you crown the inability to really answer the question I posed by saying that PTP should be given the money on trust. You are seriously deluded to suggest that they should be trusted with anything given their record on financial accountability. I'd give my money to the Bank of Cyprus before the corrupt lot in charge here.

Perhaps rather than spend your time attempting to trade insuts Ken you might explain your phrase "What is extremely doubtful is the need for high-speed trains. It's like a child going from crawling to running without learning how to walk.".......and how exactly it differs from my interpretation.....thank you

As I have said many times, we should not ridicule Mark Abhisit, he is on our side. The electorate's sheer hatred of his pompous, elitist, out of touch manner, and his association with the old power cliques, keeps PT in an untouchable position of power. When he starts whining, ranting & filibustering projects that are seen as progress by the majority of the people his pitiful popularity ratings simply sink further into the mire. Long live Abhisit Vejjajiva!!!!! Is he actually on Thaksin's payroll?

As I have said many times, we should not ridicule Mark Abhisit, he is on our side. The electorate's sheer hatred of his pompous, elitist, out of touch manner, and his association with the old power cliques, keeps PT in an untouchable position of power. When he starts whining, ranting & filibustering projects that are seen as progress by the majority of the people his pitiful popularity ratings simply sink further into the mire. Long live Abhisit Vejjajiva!!!!! Is he actually on Thaksin's payroll?

Total absolute rubbish.

In my view, if we are able to be granted a loan of this magnitude, means that Thailand as well as the existing government has full credibility from all the financial institutes and governments of the world. Well done Sir.

Did you miss the line? "Most of the funds will come from the local market, so the income from interest payments will end up in the pockets of the Thai people"

Yes, the pockets of about 0.10% of the total Thai people!

So if a child omits crawling and jumps up to run all be it perhaps a little unsteadily (accepting there must be strict monitoring but not to the detriment of continued progress).......you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..........kind of explains your political leanings......and the Thai having experienced this type of mismanagement for centuries are criticised on this thread for accepting what happens as a fait accompli?..... here is an intersting article rather summing up the Democrats election campaign - Thai PM Abhisit's election campaign stalls (Reuters) http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/16/idINIndia-57727520110616 read it all especially the little snippet regarding a promient military gentleman......give PTP the funding and let Thai people exercise control (as far as it goes) in Thailand via the ballot box as it should be

Quote: you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what

you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..

I never said anything of the sort. You further compound your infantile (appropriately) effort to put words in my mouth by using a simple analogy to pronounce on my political leanings. I hope it didn't take you too long to come up with such rubbish.

Then you crown the inability to really answer the question I posed by saying that PTP should be given the money on trust. You are seriously deluded to suggest that they should be trusted with anything given their record on financial accountability. I'd give my money to the Bank of Cyprus before the corrupt lot in charge here.

Perhaps rather than spend your time attempting to trade insuts Ken you might explain your phrase "What is extremely doubtful is the need for high-speed trains. It's like a child going from crawling to running without learning how to walk.".......and how exactly it differs from my interpretation.....thank you

I only trade insults with those who insult me first. I don't know what you mean by 'interpretation'. The child or the topic? I'll do both.

Most children start moving around by crawling. Then they learn to walk (read my post & you can confirm the 'walk' bit you ignored) before learning to run. That is not a difficult concept to understand, especially if one has brought up children.

Currently, Thailand has a snail-rail (crawling) network, run down due to governments always wanting to offer something cheap but being reluctant to pay for (i.e. subsidise) it. Part of the loan is to upgrade the network and rolling stock, turning it into a normal speed (walking) service. But at the same time or maybe even before (we are not told which) they want a huge sum for a high-speed network (running).

The latter has no feasibility study or environmental impact study or IRR as part of proper project management. The latest from Yingluck is that it will bring farmers vegetables to market quicker. Laughable.

The sensible thing to do is take out a loan to update the current infrastructure - much needed. The high-speed train - if it ever comes to pass here - is a possible future development. As Abhisit rightly says, that part of the load is not needed now.

The emergency decree for flood 'abatement' is a prime example of 'gimmie the money first & then I might or might not use it'.

That's mismanagement or corruption or both.

As I have said many times, we should not ridicule Mark Abhisit, he is on our side. The electorate's sheer hatred of his pompous, elitist, out of touch manner, and his association with the old power cliques, keeps PT in an untouchable position of power. When he starts whining, ranting & filibustering projects that are seen as progress by the majority of the people his pitiful popularity ratings simply sink further into the mire. Long live Abhisit Vejjajiva!!!!! Is he actually on Thaksin's payroll?

Total absolute rubbish.

I would not call Khun Abhisit rubbish.

just no need for.

Getting the money in drips would be insufficient to feed the ever growing and ever more hungry bubble. Better the bubble pops when Thailand is 2T Baht less in debt.

As I have said many times, we should not ridicule Mark Abhisit, he is on our side. The electorate's sheer hatred of his pompous, elitist, out of touch manner, and his association with the old power cliques, keeps PT in an untouchable position of power. When he starts whining, ranting & filibustering projects that are seen as progress by the majority of the people his pitiful popularity ratings simply sink further into the mire. Long live Abhisit Vejjajiva!!!!! Is he actually on Thaksin's payroll?

He is simply stating the ludicrous request is not needed, given the corrupt nature and reputation of PTP of the asking for more debt. At least someone has some balls, and is simple enough and straightforward to speak the truth, why even farm folks should understand this (I thought maybe even you).

Payroll? They pay him in AIDS infested blood at the gate of his private residence, my friend.

The prime minister before Thaksin, why the farmers didn't like him either, as he was for recovery from the economic crisis, budgeting, thinking of the future. Thailand is a few steps behind Singapore and Japan.Abhisit points out the need to take it step by step..and within means.

To suggest he is on their payroll is naive. How's your first month in Thailand going, by the way?

So if a child omits crawling and jumps up to run all be it perhaps a little unsteadily (accepting there must be strict monitoring but not to the detriment of continued progress).......you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..........kind of explains your political leanings......and the Thai having experienced this type of mismanagement for centuries are criticised on this thread for accepting what happens as a fait accompli?..... here is an intersting article rather summing up the Democrats election campaign - Thai PM Abhisit's election campaign stalls (Reuters) http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/16/idINIndia-57727520110616 read it all especially the little snippet regarding a promient military gentleman......give PTP the funding and let Thai people exercise control (as far as it goes) in Thailand via the ballot box as it should be

Quote: you suggest suppress the initiative and make the child crawl for what

you consider to be a reasonable, acceptable period of time..

I never said anything of the sort. You further compound your infantile (appropriately) effort to put words in my mouth by using a simple analogy to pronounce on my political leanings. I hope it didn't take you too long to come up with such rubbish.

Then you crown the inability to really answer the question I posed by saying that PTP should be given the money on trust. You are seriously deluded to suggest that they should be trusted with anything given their record on financial accountability. I'd give my money to the Bank of Cyprus before the corrupt lot in charge here.

Perhaps rather than spend your time attempting to trade insuts Ken you might explain your phrase "What is extremely doubtful is the need for high-speed trains. It's like a child going from crawling to running without learning how to walk.".......and how exactly it differs from my interpretation.....thank you

I only trade insults with those who insult me first. I don't know what you mean by 'interpretation'. The child or the topic? I'll do both.

Most children start moving around by crawling. Then they learn to walk (read my post & you can confirm the 'walk' bit you ignored) before learning to run. That is not a difficult concept to understand, especially if one has brought up children.

Currently, Thailand has a snail-rail (crawling) network, run down due to governments always wanting to offer something cheap but being reluctant to pay for (i.e. subsidise) it. Part of the loan is to upgrade the network and rolling stock, turning it into a normal speed (walking) service. But at the same time or maybe even before (we are not told which) they want a huge sum for a high-speed network (running).

The latter has no feasibility study or environmental impact study or IRR as part of proper project management. The latest from Yingluck is that it will bring farmers vegetables to market quicker. Laughable.

The sensible thing to do is take out a loan to update the current infrastructure - much needed. The high-speed train - if it ever comes to pass here - is a possible future development. As Abhisit rightly says, that part of the load is not needed now.

The emergency decree for flood 'abatement' is a prime example of 'gimmie the money first & then I might or might not use it'.

That's mismanagement or corruption or both.

Who will be allocated the contract to build and supply the stock for the high speed train Ken......your explanation does not hold up, I would expect the project will indeed be managed by an outfit that has previous experience with high speed trains. Thus no running walking crawling analogy would be valid!! The 'not now' is merely a stalling tactic by the democrats, while admitting major investment is required. Agreed would not increase the debt, but when the major achievement of the Democrats was to buy a hot air balloon for the military (rather apt I guess)......well you can understand why major investment in any high profile project might sway their judgement to err on the side of caution, if nothing else to negate a rebuff of a future accusation that PTP ventured where the democrats feared to tread. How do you think it would play out if the government just went ahead and spent mega millions without prior approval? I would guess misappropriation would soon follow!! Budgets and prior allocation are essential forms of government practice. How Ken do you put a project out to tender when you do not know if there is confirmed budget allocation?

Who will be allocated the contract to build and supply the stock for the high speed train Ken......your explanation does not hold up, I would expect the project will indeed be managed by an outfit that has previous experience with high speed trains. Thus no running walking crawling analogy would be valid!! The 'not now' is merely a stalling tactic by the democrats, while admitting major investment is required. Agreed would not increase the debt, but when the major achievement of the Democrats was to buy a hot air balloon for the military (rather apt I guess)......well you can understand why major investment in any high profile project might sway their judgement to err on the side of caution, if nothing else to negate a rebuff of a future accusation that PTP ventured where the democrats feared to tread. How do you think it would play out if the government just went ahead and spent mega millions without prior approval? I would guess misappropriation would soon follow!! Budgets and prior allocation are essential forms of government practice. How Ken do you put a project out to tender when you do not know if there is confirmed budget allocation?

You have no idea who will run the trains & I wouldn't imagine anything either. No one has, nor who will build the tracks, stations, bridges, tunnels, etc. You start a project by doing a feasibility study (sometimes even pre-feasibility). Has that been done? No evidence of it so far. You do NOT look for a loan first. That's just putting a finger in the air.

The real problem here is the total lack of transparency from the current corrupt mob, whether it's flood abatement, rice sales that are nonexistent, shortage of cash for first-car buyers, inability to transfer the money for rice subsidies to the bank that disburses it. All of these involving mismanagement of money with stubborn blockage of any attempt to investigate any of them.

Budgets are indeed a normal part of government practice. Deliberate over-calculation & mis-use of budgets are a normal part of PTP's practice. Oh, to repeat, you don't put a project out to tender if you don't have the cost details, which comes back to the question: is the project (or projects) feasible or not? The answer to that will be interesting if either it ever comes out or the figures are fiddled.

Try and not do the usual 'but, but, the Dems' crap. We can toss endless barbs about stupid purchases (bomb 'detectors' for example) of previous governments. Anyone with a tiny bit of common sense would be highly suspicious of this loan & might even question it but diehard PTP supporters seem to defend it, not on its merits, but thoughtlessly.

That's my lot for tonight.

Not a loan Ken, budget allocation and availabilty, if you cannot have the funding why bother with a feasibility study? who will pay for the study Ken? It would come out of the funds allocated to the project.. no? feasibility Ken....it can be done....shall I send my invoice to the project manager who does not have the funds approved to pay me Ken?

I guess if Kittikat says everything about the deal is just fine then we should trust him, right?

You bet we should trust him. he is about the only one we can trust in this situation.

But he also admitted that he occasionally lies to make some people feel good.

If your country was suffering from a state of depression what would you do? would you lead them into further depression, or would you say or do something to try and lift the spirits? there is not a public figure in the history of the world as we know it today that has not tried to lift the spirits of its people. what was said is just a pinprick compared to what was said in the past. the main problem of course is that losers only dwindle in the past because they have nothing to contribute to for the future. at least the man had the guts and decency to admit that. do you know of anybody else that can do that? I don't think so they just pass the buck.

Good point but it dosen't explain Why he is trying to lead them into further depression.

Anytime a government or business/corporation budgets off the books it's gonna get itself into a mess right away. Add the corruption to the mess and everything becomes more complex, with adverse consequences well into the future, This is shameless pandering to the poor and even more shameless stuffing the pockets of the already filthy rich of Thaksin's gang of blatant and brazen thieves.

You have no idea who will run the trains & I wouldn't imagine anything either. No one has, nor who will build the tracks, stations, bridges, tunnels, etc. You start a project by doing a feasibility study (sometimes even pre-feasibility). Has that been done? No evidence of it so far. You do NOT look for a loan first. That's just putting a finger in the air.

http://www.railwaybulletin.com/2013/02/thailand-to-build-first-high-speed-railway-line

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Consultants-sought-for-high-speed-rail-study-30176390.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/556919-bangkok-chiang-mai-high-speed-rail-ready-by-2018-transport-ministry/

Not a loan Ken, budget allocation and availabilty, if you cannot have the funding why bother with a feasibility study? who will pay for the study Ken? It would come out of the funds allocated to the project.. no? feasibility Ken....it can be done....shall I send my invoice to the project manager who does not have the funds approved to pay me Ken?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In any "normal" project, the feasibility study is done before you go to the bank for the loan, and it is the basis on which the bank agrees to grant the loan, or not. It has its own budget which is a tiny fraction of the project cost, and which you are prepared to lose if the study is negative.

Not a loan Ken, budget allocation and availabilty, if you cannot have the funding why bother with a feasibility study? who will pay for the study Ken? It would come out of the funds allocated to the project.. no? feasibility Ken....it can be done....shall I send my invoice to the project manager who does not have the funds approved to pay me Ken?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In any "normal" project, the feasibility study is done before you go to the bank for the loan, and it is the basis on which the bank agrees to grant the loan, or not. It has its own budget which is a tiny fraction of the project cost, and which you are prepared to lose if the study is negative.

Mick to raise the question of a feasibility study where an existing track already exists is probably as obtuse as it gets, of course the project is feasible, now back to the funding, enough of the rather futile discussion regarding the type of freight/passengers, let us have the budget approved and raise Thailands rail network to a level Thai people can be proud of, Bring in the tourists, connect to the northern track to Europe, link into Duwei for container shipments, increase employment and spending of the Thai workforce, encourage foreign investment, harness the rural workforce.........or alternatively as some of you guys appear to think.....now is not the time......ha, you speak of obtuse Mick....read the thread and you will see it is littered with it...

Mick to raise the question of a feasibility study where an existing track already exists is probably as obtuse as it gets, of course the project is feasible..

The is more to feasibility in that you need to judge whether it is feasable to expect a return on the project, this is often overlooked and not only in Thailand. Is it feasable for Thailand to build a new airport that has a capacity to handle 500 million passangers a year? Yes. Is it feasable to expect a return on the investment? No.

LoS needs a major upgrade to it's existing rail network without doubt. There is no point bringing it up to an 'it'll do standard', you need to offer a certain amount of future proofing but there is a limit to how much. One you know the level you will find that any further investment is money down the drain and in this case, it's going to be a lot of money down the drain.

Given Thailand's existing energy issues which are going to get worse it would be a better investment to put the money into domestic solar and allow individuals to sell excess energy which is pumped into the grid. Leave as much oil and gas where it is because it's not going anywhere and the price is only going to go up.

Mick to raise the question of a feasibility study where an existing track already exists is probably as obtuse as it gets, of course the project is feasible..

The is more to feasibility in that you need to judge whether it is feasable to expect a return on the project, this is often overlooked and not only in Thailand. Is it feasable for Thailand to build a new airport that has a capacity to handle 500 million passangers a year? Yes. Is it feasable to expect a return on the investment? No.

LoS needs a major upgrade to it's existing rail network without doubt. There is no point bringing it up to an 'it'll do standard', you need to offer a certain amount of future proofing but there is a limit to how much. One you know the level you will find that any further investment is money down the drain and in this case, it's going to be a lot of money down the drain.

Given Thailand's existing energy issues which are going to get worse it would be a better investment to put the money into domestic solar and allow individuals to sell excess energy which is pumped into the grid. Leave as much oil and gas where it is because it's not going anywhere and the price is only going to go up.

Wasn't really feasible for the local authority to put in 400 meters of concrete road to the family home, reward for the expenditure and future profit is nil........point being feasibility is not just connected to the performance of the final product, the work carried out provided revenue for local business, and local workers, along with providing a link to a safer route for the villagers away from the main road. Given the strength of the Baht Thai foreign purchasing power is at its peak, have any of the posters here even attempted to take this into account....The main concern for many on this forum, and the democrats is the fear that this project, a major achievement in the development of Thailand, may be completed successfully during the tenure of a PTP government.

The is more to feasibility in that you need to judge whether it is feasable to expect a return on the project, this is often overlooked and not only in Thailand. Is it feasable for Thailand to build a new airport that has a capacity to handle 500 million passangers a year? Yes. Is it feasable to expect a return on the investment? No.

Wasn't really feasible for the local authority to put in 400 meters of concrete road to the family home, reward for the expenditure and future profit is nil........point being feasibility is not just connected to the performance of the final product, the work carried out provided revenue for local business, and local workers, along with providing a link to a safer route for the villagers away from the main road.

Specifically "whether it is feasable to expect a return on the project"

the work carried out provided revenue for local business

and local workers

along with providing a link to a safer route for the villagers away from the main road

All three of which are returns on the investment.

I didn't do a very good job but the point I was tring to make was that there are other facets which need to be taken into account and you have been kind enough to add an additional three into the mix.

On the whole, I don't consider it to be a wise investment at all and that is without the corruption. Look for example at Swampy.... Less than 6 years after opening and DM has to take the overspill, not long later it has to go back into full swing. Look at the rice scam (though this is financial), total investment thus far is say 500 Billion, guaranteed loss is around 115 Billion but projected loss is 200 Billion and that is if every grain of rice is still there and in the same quality AND it is sold at cost price. I wouldn't trust the present Thai government nor would I trust the last with a 2T Baht credit card.

Not a loan Ken, budget allocation and availabilty, if you cannot have the funding why bother with a feasibility study? who will pay for the study Ken? It would come out of the funds allocated to the project.. no? feasibility Ken....it can be done....shall I send my invoice to the project manager who does not have the funds approved to pay me Ken?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In any "normal" project, the feasibility study is done before you go to the bank for the loan, and it is the basis on which the bank agrees to grant the loan, or not. It has its own budget which is a tiny fraction of the project cost, and which you are prepared to lose if the study is negative.

Mick to raise the question of a feasibility study where an existing track already exists is probably as obtuse as it gets, of course the project is feasible, now back to the funding, enough of the rather futile discussion regarding the type of freight/passengers, let us have the budget approved and raise Thailands rail network to a level Thai people can be proud of, Bring in the tourists, connect to the northern track to Europe, link into Duwei for container shipments, increase employment and spending of the Thai workforce, encourage foreign investment, harness the rural workforce.........or alternatively as some of you guys appear to think.....now is not the time......ha, you speak of obtuse Mick....read the thread and you will see it is littered with it...

More ignorance & trying to change the subject. The part of the loan for upgrading the current rail network is not in question.

But, the high-speed train will NOT run on existing tracks - can you imagine the carmage that would result from a high-speed train hitting a bus or truck at a level crossing? This is worse than Yingluck's idiocy.

The HS train network will have to be built from scratch with all the new land appropriation, bridges & tunnels included. A new project, which this is, requires some sort of feasibility (that word seems to rankle with you) study. Yes, that requires a budget & some sort of expertise being hired. Has this been done? How much budget would this need? Something in the 2-digit millions I'd guess given that it's a fair-sized project.

If it is feasible (not just for veggies), then publish & justify it without prejudice & threats from Dubai. Then, if agreed by parliament, go ahead and look for a budget based on the feasibility study's estimated costs.

The current B2.2tn budget cum loan approval has been dreamed up by the master dreamer in Dubai, without any details, and his minions (vegetables?) here have been told in no uncertain terms to get it approved, or else. Sort of like dictatorship to me but some claim it is all a part of democracy.

Not a loan Ken, budget allocation and availabilty, if you cannot have the funding why bother with a feasibility study? who will pay for the study Ken? It would come out of the funds allocated to the project.. no? feasibility Ken....it can be done....shall I send my invoice to the project manager who does not have the funds approved to pay me Ken?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In any "normal" project, the feasibility study is done before you go to the bank for the loan, and it is the basis on which the bank agrees to grant the loan, or not. It has its own budget which is a tiny fraction of the project cost, and which you are prepared to lose if the study is negative.

Mick to raise the question of a feasibility study where an existing track already exists is probably as obtuse as it gets, of course the project is feasible, now back to the funding, enough of the rather futile discussion regarding the type of freight/passengers, let us have the budget approved and raise Thailands rail network to a level Thai people can be proud of, Bring in the tourists, connect to the northern track to Europe, link into Duwei for container shipments, increase employment and spending of the Thai workforce, encourage foreign investment, harness the rural workforce.........or alternatively as some of you guys appear to think.....now is not the time......ha, you speak of obtuse Mick....read the thread and you will see it is littered with it...

A simple "Yes" would have sufficed (without demonstration).

No doubt on occasion difficult to understand Mick.....but never 'simple'.......now back to the topic, as talking about geo, interesting as it is, suggests you are running out of ideas