Applying For A Uk Visa.... Madness

[RioMist]

I am married to a Filipina and 2 years ago we applied for a UK visitors visa. Off we both flew to Bankok as my wife did not fancy applying alone and staying in Bangkok alone too.. She did all the biometrics tests and stuff... suppied all the bank statements and tons of other documents they seem to love aquiring... and 2 weeks later her passport was returned with the visa. Now I do understand why they need some of this stuff for security terrorism etc etc.... Now here in my gripe... We are going to the UK again in June.. I thought this time as we already had a visa and already done the biometrics that we could apply for another visa by post.... Not on your life!!!!! Again we have to go to Bangkok to do biometrics again!!!! How bloody stupid is that??? It's ok if you live in Bangkok but all the expense to go there again.. hotel bills air fare etc etc. For what??? This is bureaucracy gone mad..Do they think we have nothing better to do that spend all our money just to waste it on something so stupid! Can anyone give me a rational explanation to why we need to go all through this again !!! If anyone can it might make me feel better!

[stevenl]

Don't know for sure, but it would not surprise me at all if they can't store the earlier information due to privacy laws.

[LivinginKata]

I can sympathise. Same for me in the past. Went through all the hoops to get my lady's initial UK visa. Next year I sent a new application by post explaining our previous application. The embassy insisted we must be interviewed in person. So we made an appointment, flew up to Bangkok, arrived at appointment time, my lady was interviewed first, came back a minute later, I was called and advised her visa would be ready shortly. I was fuming, travel to Bangkok for no real reason, but we are at the mercy if the 'civil' servants in any country.

[iSabai]

Don't know for sure, but it would not surprise me at all if they can't store the earlier information due to privacy laws.

The OP's original assessment that "This is bureaucracy gone mad..." and "bloody stupid..." would be more accurate methinks.

[LivinginKata]

Moving to other country visa forum. Maybe have more advice.

[stevenl]

Don't know for sure, but it would not surprise me at all if they can't store the earlier information due to privacy laws.

The OP's original assessment that "This is bureaucracy gone mad..." and "bloody stupid..." would be more accurate methinks.

I agree with it being stupid, but does does not mean it can't be caused by (overdone) privacy laws. Unless you know better, if so, please share.

Edited April 2, 2013 by stevenl

[theoldgit]

Each application is treated separately and on its merits, circumstances can, and often do, change in a couple of years, so even if a visa has previously been granted it's not guaranteed that subsequent applications will succeed.

As has been pointed out biometric details are not stored forever, they are captured and used for the current application only and then deleted from the system, imagine the uproar if it was suggested that a Government Department was maintaining a biometric database of all visa applications from around the world.

I'm far from being a fan of the UKBA but on this occasion I believe they have got it right.

[7by7]

There are two simple explanations; neither of them sinister or overly bureaucratic.

1) They require all the information and supporting documents again as the applicant's and/or sponsor's circumstances could easily have changed since the last application; many people's do.

2) I disagree with theoldgit on biometrics. Unless I have previously been misinformed, I understand that they require biometrics again to ensure the applicant is the same person as last time. There are dishonest people out there who will attempt to impersonate a previously successful visa applicant in order to obtain entry to the UK or other countries; with or without the other person's knowledge and/or assistance.

If you and your wife are stable in Thailand and wish to visit the UK regularly, why doesn't she apply for a longer term visit visa? VAT1.4 Visa validity - What period for a multiple entry visit visa?

LivinginKata, if you are talking about the UK, the embassy stopped routinely interviewing applicant's and sponsor's in person many years ago. These days most are not interviewed at all, and if an interview is required it is usually done over the phone.

However, for the reasons explained above, applicants do still have to attend the visa application centre in person to hand in the application and have their biometrics taken.

Edited April 2, 2013 by 7by7

[RioMist]

There are two simple explanations; neither of them sinister or overly bureaucratic.

1) They require all the information and supporting documents again as the applicant's and/or sponsor's circumstances could easily have changed since the last application; many people's do.

2) I disagree with theoldgit on biometrics. Unless I have previously been misinformed, I understand that they require biometrics again to ensure the applicant is the same person as last time. There are dishonest people out there who will attempt to impersonate a previously successful visa applicant in order to obtain entry to the UK or other countries; with or without the other person's knowledge and/or assistance.

If you and your wife are stable in Thailand and wish to visit the UK regularly, why doesn't she apply for a longer term visit visa? VAT1.4 Visa validity - What period for a multiple entry visit visa?

LivinginKata, if you are talking about the UK, the embassy stopped routinely interviewing applicant's and sponsor's in person many years ago. These days most are not interviewed at all, and if an interview is required it is usually done over the phone.

However, for the reasons explained above, applicants do still have to attend the visa application centre in person to hand in the application and have their biometrics taken.

mmm Can't agree about attempt to impersonate.. after all my wife will be using her passport... the same one with the orignal visa in it... and you have to send the passport with the documents.. to obtain the next visa. They must know that in order to obtain the original visa that biometrics must have been given.. so why do we need to do them again.. Have her finger prints changed in 2 years!????As I said bloody stupid.. after all she is married to a UK citizen and I will be be with her when we travel... Not that it seems to count for much these days! ... They used to accept postal visa's a couple of years ago.. but now it's just got out of hand...

[theoldgit]

They haven't accepted postal applications for at least eight years, before that I don't know.

As I said earlier they don't store biometric details, and people have attempted to use other people's passports.

As I have said before, I believe that have got it right and I cannot agree that it's got out of hand.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[7by7]

If my memory is correct they didn't accept postal applications when my then girlfriend, now wife, applied for her first visa and that was 13 years ago; can't say before that.

That you are a British citizen has no bearing in this matter. I am reminded of an incident when we were sat in the embassy waiting room (which will tell you how long ago it was) and a tearful Thai girl came out from an interview room having been refused a fiance visa. She asked my wife if I could explain the refusal notice as she didn't really understand it. We had the painful task of telling her that she had been refused as neither she nor her British sponsor had explained what had happened to the girl who had been issued a visa as her sponsor's fiance just a few months previously!

God knows what would have happened to her had she been granted the visa and come to the UK, and what happened to the other poor girl.

I also knew, back in the 1990's and she wasn't from Thailand, a girl who had paid a British man to act as her sponsor for a visit so she could come to the UK and work illegally.

People do use false passports and even other people's passports in attempts to enter the UK.

Her fingerprints haven't changed since her last application; but if someone is impersonating her.............

You and your wife are doubtless innocent of these or any other nefarious attempts to enter the UK illegally, but I can't help wonder what your reaction would be if it turned out that many people were entering the UK illegally because the UKBA didn't make these checks!

It's the activities of criminals such as those I have described that have made these checks necessary.

Og, are you sure that they don't keep the biometric information? I'm sure I read a post on here from one who should know that they do so that they can check biometrics from subsequent applications against previous ones to make sure they match. I may be misremembering, though.

Edited April 2, 2013 by 7by7

[Tony M]

7x7 said :

OG, are you sure that they don't keep the biometric information? I'm sure I read a post on here from one who should know that they do so that they can check biometrics from subsequent applications against previous ones to make sure they match. I may be misremembering, though.

Here is the answer :

How long will the UK Border Agency keep your biometric information?

We will keep your biometric information for 10 years from the date when we last scanned your fingerprints and photographed your face. After 10 years, the information will be destroyed.

In addition, for the fingerprints taken on arrival in the UK ( to match the fingerprints taken at the time of visa application):

"Passengers will need to provide their fingerprints each time they travel to the UK with a visa, entry clearance or biometric residence permit. Fingerprints will be held for a
maximum of two working days, and will then be destroyed."

[7by7]

Thanks, Tony, that makes sense; otherwise why bother taking biometrics at all!

[LivinginKata]

@7by7 "If my memory is correct they didn't accept postal applications when my then girlfriend, now wife, applied for her first visa and that was 13 years ago; can't say before that."

Our first application was 16 years ago and same as you then girlfriend, now wife. Made the application in person, told to come back in 5 days (I guess a cooling off period), which meant we had to hang about BKK for 5 more days. 6 month visa granted, without fuss.

Our second application was 15 years ago, and to save the 'cooling off' period I posted up her application with a covering letter. Application accepted, appointment was made, 2 year visa granted.

Since then I have had no desire to visit old blighty. I shudder to think of the hoops we would have to go though if we had to return quickly for a family crisis/bereavement.

[theoldgit]

Correct of course Tony, I was confusing it with the fingerprint check, those are destroyed after a couple of days, my apologies to the OP.

However the fact remains that the biometric details have to be captured at every application, and I believe this is to prevent possible fraud.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Tony M]

Correct of course Tony, I was confusing it with the fingerprint check, those are destroyed after a couple of days, my apologies to the OP.

However the fact remains that the biometric details have to be captured at every application, and I believe this is to prevent possible fraud.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Correct. It is all for fraud prevention. However, I did hear that in China they can now get surgery to alter their fingerprints !

[7by7]

Since then I have had no desire to visit old blighty. I shudder to think of the hoops we would have to go though if we had to return quickly for a family crisis/bereavement.

Thai living in Thailand with her Brit husband; very few hoops at all!

• Show you're married
• Show you're legally living in Thailand and so you and your wife will return
• Show you can afford it
• Show you'll have somewhere to stay

Job done.

If you can show an urgent, compassionate reason for travelling, her application will even jump the queue!

[Kevin1908]

Each application is treated separately and on its merits, circumstances can, and often do, change in a couple of years, so even if a visa has previously been granted it's not guaranteed that subsequent applications will succeed.

As has been pointed out biometric details are not stored forever, they are captured and used for the current application only and then deleted from the system, imagine the uproar if it was suggested that a Government Department was maintaining a biometric database of all visa applications from around the world.

I'm far from being a fan of the UKBA but on this occasion I believe they have got it right.

Why would there be an uproar. The UK is holding people's dna profiles illegally. They expect mobile phone companies to store data and ISPs to store emails. No uproar there.

My 11 year son had his fingerdrints taken for a school id system. What's the betting they aren't on some database somewhere.

Trust the uk Government, you must be joking.

[rawhod]

7x7 said :

OG, are you sure that they don't keep the biometric information? I'm sure I read a post on here from one who should know that they do so that they can check biometrics from subsequent applications against previous ones to make sure they match. I may be misremembering, though.

Here is the answer :

How long will the UK Border Agency keep your biometric information?

We will keep your biometric information for 10 years from the date when we last scanned your fingerprints and photographed your face. After 10 years, the information will be destroyed.

In addition, for the fingerprints taken on arrival in the UK ( to match the fingerprints taken at the time of visa application):

"Passengers will need to provide their fingerprints each time they travel to the UK with a visa, entry clearance or biometric residence permit. Fingerprints will be held for a

maximum of two working days, and will then be destroyed."

They must keep them for 10 years or how else would they check the entry clearance for someone holding a long term (10 year) visa.