Amnesty 'outrage' At Saudi Paralysis Sentence

[webfact]

Amnesty 'outrage' at Saudi paralysis sentence

The reported sentencing of paralysis for a Saudi man as punishment for paralysing another man has been described as "outrageous" by a leading human rights group.

Saudi reports say the 24-year-old man could be paralysed from the waist down if he cannot pay his victim one million riyals (£250,000) in compensation.

Amnesty International says the sentence is a form of torture.

The man has been in prison for 10 years since he stabbed a friend in the back.

Full story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22010122

-- BBC 2013-04-03

[retell]

and we think thailand is still in medieval times

very bad stuff

hope they can get those laws to change

[Hedghog]

How is the convicted man supposed to access that sort of money.

He has been in prison 10 years.

[USNret]

I'll slide over to SaudiVisa.com and see what the expats there are saying about it.

But truly, this is just barbaric. And the guy was 14 when he committed the crime? Unbelievable.

[jamhar]

"The law of qisas, or retribution, in Saudi Arabia means his victim can demand that he suffers exactly the same punishment as he caused."

It is the victim that is requiring the punishment.

Its barbaric, and ultra primitive by western standards

But it is the law.

[pedro01]

I think this is an excellent deterrent.

He stabbed someone in the back, crippled him for life. I have zero sympathy.

[Naam]

"The law of qisas, or retribution, in Saudi Arabia means his victim can demand that he suffers exactly the same punishment as he caused."

It is the victim that is requiring the punishment.

Its barbaric, and ultra primitive by western standards

But it is the law.

Qr'anic law based on the Bible's "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".

[belg]

the crime would fit the punishment, hope they also do that for murderers and specially (child) rapists

[Cardiff1963]

I bet knife crime is low in Saudi.

[Potosi]

"The law of qisas, or retribution, in Saudi Arabia means his victim can demand that he suffers exactly the same punishment as he caused."

It is the victim that is requiring the punishment.

Best law in the world. The victim is crippled. However, he wasn't in prison for ten years, and that must be considered.

[spidermike007]

Saudi Arabia is one of the most primitive societies on the planet. They have not progressed past the 14th century. They are the true enemy of the west, with their continued secret support of terrorism, and their radical Wahhabi faith. It may take hundreds of years to incorporate them into the world community.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Arkady]

Saudi Arabia is one of the most primitive societies on the planet. They have not progressed past the 14th century. They are the true enemy of the west, with their continued secret support of terrorism, and their radical Wahhabi faith. It may take hundreds of years to incorporate them into the world community. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Seems like the regime there, along with the other Gulf despots, is concerned about the risk of a more rapid modernisation along the same lines as Egypt, Tunisia and Lybia.

[chuckd]

I bet knife crime is low in Saudi.

ALL crime is low in Saudi Arabia.

[bendejo]

Even if the sentence is not carried out it may be enough to deter those who are smart enough to consider the consequences. Imagine if a rapist in Thailand was sentenced to 24 hours in a cell filled with sex offenders, how would that resound with all those swingin' dicks out there! Again, the sentence needn't be carried out, but the message to get out through the media would be "if you commit rape, we might sentence you to this."

Key to this is smart enough to consider the consequences. As opposed to, say, someone who kills his girlfriend then cries "I've killed my Baba!"

[uptheos]

I bet knife crime is low in Saudi.

ALL crime is low in Saudi Arabia.

Except those against humanity.

[jamhar]

"The law of qisas, or retribution, in Saudi Arabia means his victim can demand that he suffers exactly the same punishment as he caused."

It is the victim that is requiring the punishment.

Its barbaric, and ultra primitive by western standards

But it is the law.

Qr'anic law based on the Bible's "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".

Naam,

i wasn't arguing, implying or suggesting. I was just quoting the source article.

No slighting or insult was intended.

[fasteddie]

Even if the sentence is not carried out it may be enough to deter those who are smart enough to consider the consequences. Imagine if a rapist in Thailand was sentenced to 24 hours in a cell filled with sex offenders, how would that resound with all those swingin' dicks out there! Again, the sentence needn't be carried out, but the message to get out through the media would be "if you commit rape, we might sentence you to this."

Key to this is smart enough to consider the consequences. As opposed to, say, someone who kills his girlfriend then cries "I've killed my Baba!"

What an utterly ridiculous and pointless post.

[steveG]

"The law of qisas, or retribution, in Saudi Arabia means his victim can demand that he suffers exactly the same punishment as he caused."

It is the victim that is requiring the punishment.

Its barbaric, and ultra primitive by western standards

But it is the law.

They dont have much crime in Saudi!!

[Steely Dan]

"The law of qisas, or retribution, in Saudi Arabia means his victim can demand that he suffers exactly the same punishment as he caused."

It is the victim that is requiring the punishment.

Its barbaric, and ultra primitive by western standards

But it is the law.

Qr'anic law based on the Bible's "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".

Law's which have been jettisoned into the trash bin centuries ago by Judeo-Christian civilization. You could equally defend the continuation of slavery based on Qr'anic law, but that was nominally phased out by Saudi Arabia in 1962, though I guess North Sudan and Mauritania could still use the old scripture defense for their continued practice of keeping slaves.

[X pat]

After working in that country for 18 months,I am not supprised at any thing they do.

[Rimmer]

OTT post removed

[Baerboxer]

Saudi Arabia is one of the most primitive societies on the planet. They have not progressed past the 14th century. They are the true enemy of the west, with their continued secret support of terrorism, and their radical Wahhabi faith. It may take hundreds of years to incorporate them into the world community. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Rubbish. Have you ever lived there?

And the West is just so wonderful, crime free and just. I bet the bankers in Islamic countries won't fiddle and cheat to inflate their bonuses, and then whine for bail outs and big pay offs. They know what the consequences would be.

Imagine if all the bent Western bankers had their assets seized - they'd know how the poor Cypriots are feeling.

Yes, paralysing someone seems barbaric. But that has been the consequence his victim has to live with.

Laws are meant to bring rule and deter the crime. The West has moved too far in the other way - criminals are shown sympathy and receive more help than victims. All to convince us we live in a just and modern, fair society. Perhaps others may not want the West's idea of paradise.

[h5kaf]

I bet knife crime is low in Saudi.

ALL crime is low in Saudi Arabia.

Except those against humanity.

A few points.

1. It is true that the laws of Saudi Arabia are very different from those in Europe, but it is for the Saudis to change them if they don't like them not for foreigners to interfere.

2. If foreigners are not comfortable with the laws of Saudi then they should stay away from that country. -- Simple really.

3. If Europe, the USA and others were not so keen to impose their systems on others then perhaps others (like the muslim fanatics) would be less interested in trying to impose their system on us.

My final general point is one concerning 'humanity' and all those who want terrorists to get a smack on the wrist for the sake of "humanity" i.e. their human rights. I believe that if you murder, rape or commit unspeakable crimes against children then you have taken yourself out of the category of "human". Thus you have no human rights to protect. But I would still favour a swift execution rather than torture. If execution was too much for the legal system then a version of the Bangkok Hilton would suit for say 50 years. Come to think of it Thailand could become a hub for "convicted inhumans"

[khunken]

I bet knife crime is low in Saudi.

ALL crime is low in Saudi Arabia.

Except those against humanity.

A few points.

1. It is true that the laws of Saudi Arabia are very different from those in Europe, but it is for the Saudis to change them if they don't like them not for foreigners to interfere.

2. If foreigners are not comfortable with the laws of Saudi then they should stay away from that country. -- Simple really.

3. If Europe, the USA and others were not so keen to impose their systems on others then perhaps others (like the muslim fanatics) would be less interested in trying to impose their system on us.

My final general point is one concerning 'humanity' and all those who want terrorists to get a smack on the wrist for the sake of "humanity" i.e. their human rights. I believe that if you murder, rape or commit unspeakable crimes against children then you have taken yourself out of the category of "human". Thus you have no human rights to protect. But I would still favour a swift execution rather than torture. If execution was too much for the legal system then a version of the Bangkok Hilton would suit for say 50 years. Come to think of it Thailand could become a hub for "convicted inhumans"

While I have some sympathy with what you say there is rather more to it than interference. Saudi, by the way interferes in Syria, Bahrain & other gulf countries, basically to make sure the Shias don't get political or civil rights.

It all depends whether you regard punishment as revenge or justice. The Saudi method is revenge (same as the death penalty) which can be bought out by a large sun of money - making it easier for the rich than for the poor. This is not justice dispatched fairly & equally. Different means, but with the same ends, apply here in Thailand.

I don't think the Saudis are inhuman but they are far too closely controlled by an extreme form of Islam, rigorously enforced by the religious police.

[orosee]

Saudi Arabia is one of the most primitive societies on the planet. They have not progressed past the 14th century. They are the true enemy of the west, with their continued secret support of terrorism, and their radical Wahhabi faith. It may take hundreds of years to incorporate them into the world community. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Rubbish. Have you ever lived there?

And the West is just so wonderful, crime free and just. I bet the bankers in Islamic countries won't fiddle and cheat to inflate their bonuses, and then whine for bail outs and big pay offs. They know what the consequences would be.

Imagine if all the bent Western bankers had their assets seized - they'd know how the poor Cypriots are feeling.

Yes, paralysing someone seems barbaric. But that has been the consequence his victim has to live with.

Laws are meant to bring rule and deter the crime. The West has moved too far in the other way - criminals are shown sympathy and receive more help than victims. All to convince us we live in a just and modern, fair society. Perhaps others may not want the West's idea of paradise.

In what way is it fair to you that someone can either pay a high penalty if rich, or suffer a cruel and irreversible physical penalty if not? Can't you really see where this is going?

It is a system based on revenge, not justice. It satisfies the lowest feelings and may be attractive for people who feel satisfied in watching others suffer, but it also breeds corruption and hypocrisy. Surely no Saudi ever drinks alcohol or whores around on business or leisure trips in Thailand?

Just look who gets executed there and, more importantly, who doesn't. Even China puts bullets in the head of the wealthy if necessary.

Another poster said "it is the law", well so was Apartheid and so were the Nuremberg and other racial laws, in Western countries, well into the 20th century. That does not mean they were right or just. But indeed, it's up to the Saudis to change them. Of course, those in charge have no need to do that.

Any law that is entirely justified by religious roots should be applicable in heaven (or hell) only. Most countries to very well with secular laws based on humanist ideals, regardless of what many people here seem to believe.

Edited April 3, 2013 by orosee

[Steely Dan]

Saudi Arabia is one of the most primitive societies on the planet. They have not progressed past the 14th century. They are the true enemy of the west, with their continued secret support of terrorism, and their radical Wahhabi faith. It may take hundreds of years to incorporate them into the world community. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Rubbish. Have you ever lived there?

And the West is just so wonderful, crime free and just. I bet the bankers in Islamic countries won't fiddle and cheat to inflate their bonuses, and then whine for bail outs and big pay offs. They know what the consequences would be.

Imagine if all the bent Western bankers had their assets seized - they'd know how the poor Cypriots are feeling.

Yes, paralysing someone seems barbaric. But that has been the consequence his victim has to live with.

Laws are meant to bring rule and deter the crime. The West has moved too far in the other way - criminals are shown sympathy and receive more help than victims. All to convince us we live in a just and modern, fair society. Perhaps others may not want the West's idea of paradise.

In what way is it fair to you that someone can either pay a high penalty if rich, or suffer a cruel and irreversible physical penalty if not? Can't you really see where this is going?

It is a system based on revenge, not justice. It satisfies the lowest feelings and may be attractive for people who feel satisfied in watching others suffer, but it also breeds corruption and hypocrisy. Surely no Saudi ever drinks alcohol or whores around on business or leisure trips in Thailand?

Just look who gets executed there and, more importantly, who doesn't. Even China puts bullets in the head of the wealthy if necessary.

Another poster said "it is the law", well so was Apartheid and so were the Nuremberg and other racial laws, in Western countries, well into the 20th century. That does not mean they were right or just. But indeed, it's up to the Saudis to change them. Of course, those in charge have no need to do that.

Any law that is entirely justified by religious roots should be applicable in heaven (or hell) only. Most countries to very well with secular laws based on humanist ideals, regardless of what many people here seem to believe.

The Saudi 'justice' system is two tier to it's very core. The poorer Saudis predominantly in the South suffer the most extreme Sharia sanctioned punishments, whilst the rich get their checkbooks out. Alcohol is not so off bounds to the privileged and a Saudi prince who was jailed in London a couple of years back for murdering his manservant was quietly shipped back to Saudi recently, where you can be sure he won't be jailed there or punished for his homosexuality. The hypocrisy and barbarity of the place is only matched by western cowardice in facing it down.

P.S I won't post the links suffice to say said prince was reported jailed in Oct 2010 and released in Nov 2012. I wonder what justice the family of the murdered servant got?

Edited April 3, 2013 by Steely Dan

[geriatrickid]

"The law of qisas, or retribution, in Saudi Arabia means his victim can demand that he suffers exactly the same punishment as he caused."

It is the victim that is requiring the punishment.

Its barbaric, and ultra primitive by western standards

But it is the law.

Qr'anic law based on the Bible's "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".

No. Try Hammurabi's code.

Yes the Old Testament of the Isrealites does indeed express such sentiments, however,it is tempered by the commandment to show mercy and compassion. Mercy is a commandment upon the Hebrews. It is a shame that a man as knowledgeable as you is unaware that Talmudic law incorporates discussion and the evolution of law. Even, a simple agnostic like me with my limited Church of England education took some basic religious studies back in the day. Please do not lay the brutal primitive behaviours of your friends in Saudi Arabia at the feet of the jew people or Christians.

[axact]

Even if the sentence is not carried out it may be enough to deter those who are smart enough to consider the consequences. Imagine if a rapist in Thailand was sentenced to 24 hours in a cell filled with sex offenders, how would that resound with all those swingin' dicks out there! Again, the sentence needn't be carried out, but the message to get out through the media would be "if you commit rape, we might sentence you to this."

Key to this is smart enough to consider the consequences. As opposed to, say, someone who kills his girlfriend then cries "I've killed my Baba!"

lets follow your idea through, lock up sex offenders with other sex offenders.... who have attack woman or children, why would they be a threat to a man ? they would all be swapping stories of their offences, like a club. Hardly seems a consequence for rape, can't see it being much of a deterrent. Please don't apply for jobs in the justice department.

[retell]

getting away from this topic because now it getting close to "defending" cristianity over islam and jews thanks but no thanks

[TheyCallmeScooter]

"The law of qisas, or retribution, in Saudi Arabia means his victim can demand that he suffers exactly the same punishment as he caused."

It is the victim that is requiring the punishment.

Its barbaric, and ultra primitive by western standards

But it is the law.

Qr'anic law based on the Bible's "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".

No. Try Hammurabi's code.

Yes the Old Testament of the Isrealites does indeed express such sentiments, however,it is tempered by the commandment to show mercy and compassion. Mercy is a commandment upon the Hebrews. It is a shame that a man as knowledgeable as you is unaware that Talmudic law incorporates discussion and the evolution of law. Even, a simple agnostic like me with my limited Church of England education took some basic religious studies back in the day. Please do not lay the brutal primitive behaviours of your friends in Saudi Arabia at the feet of the jew people or Christians.

The question is not whether one insane form of behavioral modification and Control is superior to another. All 'modern' laws are ultra-barbaric by sane standards. All behaviour modification is nuts. Without all the madness that convinces the world that human children must be raised Right and taught how to (mis)behave, children would simply grow up Selfishly humane.

The (evil) brilliance of law lies in dictating to everyone how they are to behave; at which point, everyone stops thinking in terms of Selfish best interests (which are inclusive and do not include seeking 'advantage' at the expense of Humanity; i.e. your Self) and immediately starts to feel it is in their best interests to find loopholes and avoid liability. You can either think sane or feel insane. But passion is completely natural, don't get me wrong. I know all about the horrific Banana Wars of attrition fought between chimpanzees and...chimpanzees.

I know about chimpanzees' bloody history. It's the chimpanzee mothers who were to blame. Those chimp offspring wanted to be enslaved. So their mothers allowed them to be free, and didn't brainwash them with love, lies, fear and shame in order to raise them Right. If they did, God forbid! Chimpanzees would grow up with Self-less consideration for others; wanting desperately to please their mother. They wouldn't be humane in the way humans lack the capacity to be towards each other. It is this distinction that separates Humanity from Chimpanzee Society. They're rude. We're polite. Whether you feel one is better than the other would depend on how afraid you were of rude truths. You see, chimpanzee mothers tell their children:

"If you have nothing honest to say, then say nothing at all."

Human mothers understand that deceit is required for social cohesion. They don't care about truth and this is telling. This is why everyone you meet is so nice. Sure they're sociopaths trying to take advantage of you with their diabolical and moronically-transparent deceit, but you have to concede that in the lead-up to their rape and murder of you, they will be unfailingly sleazy, considerate and polite. And that's very nice, isn't it? I've always thought how nice they are when they consider my feelings in such a sociopathic needy fashion.

"There's no need to be so rude!"

That's a matter of conjecture.

"If you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all."

Don't kill me for pointing out their Self-defeating values. I'm merely noting the obvious priorities of mothers who lie to Their Own.