Pattaya Brit Gets 30 Years For Drug Smuggling

[Khutan]

<snip>Steve Willcox, British, 33 1/3 Years - drugs related offence.<snip>

33 1/3 so that number fings a bell.

If we send him an old Lez Zep collection, and he watches it go around 350,640,000 times, he is ready for release, and can probably get a job in a cover band singing a few old songs.

Imagine the practice you could do of Stairway to Heaven

[RamdomChances]

According to the "prisons" web site http://www.correct.go.th/statis.htm

66% of the prison population ar in for drug offences and about 81% of the total prison population has been sentanced to less than 10 years with only 0.2% sentanced to death.

Forigeners caught with drugs tent to be high profile cases and I feel tend to attract higher sentances, saying that everyone should know the possible consequences. The guy was a fool and I going to have a very long time to contemplate his mistake.

RC

I would have responded sooner, but I spent almost 3 straight hours working on my previous post

I know know more about criminals, prisons and prisoners than I really wanted to know.

The link you supplied above was a little out of date (May 2002) so I found the more current link. Unfortunately, the most telling chart (Breakdown by Offense) shows the graph and the years, but not the numbers. All you can see is that Drug Offenses are by far the largest percentage.

Department of Corrections, Thailand

It does appear that they supposedly have around 97,000 fewer prisoners now than in 2002 (when you compare the info in the 2 links). Can't tell if that's the result of not including certain categories now that were included in '02 (such as prisoners awaiting investigation).

Other numbers in those 2 links don't match up either, not too important though.

As for the high-profile cases (foreigners). I personally don't read the Thai language papers or watch the Thai news. I don't know if anyone else here does either (or do they ?).

As a result, most of the local news I get is in English and tends to concentrate on events that involve foreigners. I suspect that there is a lot going on (regarding the drug trade, smuggling, trafficking, ect) that we don't hear about.

Once in awhile you see a story about some minor bust of a Thai in Pattaya (carrying a couple of pills), but even then, you rarely hear about the final outcome of their trials. I doubt the ones charged with trafficking in Class 1 drugs get off easier than foreigners.

I'll ask some of my Thai friends what they see/hear from their media.

Your right that was a bit out of date, thats why I put the link in, really I did'nt do much searching. I just think that a Thai found with a simular amount would get no where near that sentance. but as thats just more or less my personel opinion (mainly based on just idle chat and gossip with thai's) I was looking for something to back it up.

The thing is that these stiff sentances are on the books and can be applied at any time, Is it fair ? probably not. Is it a deterent ? Well I feel again probably not. I think the people who get into this are either to stupid, desperate or greedy to care and everyone thinks getting caught "will never happen to them"

A few bits from your other post

You have your laws, they have theirs. You break their laws, you face their punishment. You may not like it, but if you choose to break the law, where ever you are, you have to be prepared to face the consequences, what ever they are.

I have no problem with this statment and agree with it, but it does'nt mean I have to think its right or fair.

The sentences may suck, but ask yourself, if the sentences were more lenient, would you consider smuggling/trafficking some drugs in Thailand ?

no I would'nt and I dont really think most of the members here yourself included would, how much less would they have to be 80%, 50% 20%

On the other hand "yaa baa" is classed as a class 1 drug (I think) and judging from the posts he admited to be going to sell it, making him a "dealer" and I just notices that "Mr Hurford is then said to have confessed to police to buying the drugs in Cambodia to sell on to tourists." so there was "trafficing" as well. So I dont really have much sympathy for him, just seems an incredebly stupid thing to do IMO

RC

[Kerryd]

no I would'nt and I dont really think most of the members here yourself included would, how much less would they have to be 80%, 50% 20%

On the other hand "yaa baa" is classed as a class 1 drug (I think) and judging from the posts he admited to be going to sell it, making him a "dealer" and I just notices that "Mr Hurford is then said to have confessed to police to buying the drugs in Cambodia to sell on to tourists." so there was "trafficing" as well. So I dont really have much sympathy for him, just seems an incredebly stupid thing to do IMO

RC

Good day eh.

The trafficking question (would you do it) was meant more as a general, rhetorical question, not specifically directed at you

It would be real hard to prove, but I'll bet that if (for some dumb reason) Thailand reduced the sentences to something along the lines of 2-4 years, you'd see a huge increase in the amount of drugs being smuggled and trafficked (not just by foreigners).

Yeah, if you combine the possession (with intent to traffic) and the smuggling charges, it is probably what he deserved (and still less than others get).

That one kid in Bang Kwang (Michael Connell British, 99 Years - drugs related offence) is a fine example of someone who just threw their entire life away. He was 19 when he got sent to prison.

(Got caught bringing in 3,400 ecstasy pills). Possession and Trafficking obviously.

He has to do half his sentence before being eligible for transfer back to the UK, meaning he'll be 64 when he gets back (just in time to retire !) What will he do then ?

Stupid.

[LoveDaBlues]

KerryD strikes me as somewhat unbalanced not least because of his seeming preoccupation with sado-homo-erotic imagery with which he associates incarceration. Possibly there are issues here he is trying to resolve using crime and punishment as a metaphor. Who can tell, the mind can be a very dark place.

It is evident the polarity of views on this subject will remain given the extremism of posts in favour of the medieval. So I shall bow out since flogging dead horses is not one of my more favourite of pursuits.

However, as a footnote, I should like to remind our american cousins of the hanging fraternity that their own president was convicted of cocaine possession. Had he faced justice today under the current repressive regime he would not have qualified for a job in the Post Office, never mind high political office. On second thoughts, perhaps that would have been no bad thing.

Oh really? A link to the news article please. As much as I dislike GWB you are wrong.

It is RUMORED he was arrested for cocaine possession in the early 70's but NO ONE with any credibility has said GWB was ever CONVICTED. Indeed, there is NO RECORD of his even being arrested. Your vocabulary is wonderful......perhaps you should spend a little more time on getting your facts straight.

[britmaveric]

Gent - rumours about doing coke. However if it makes u feel better he was arrested for DUI.

[Tolley]

In my earlier post I used the conditional tense. Having read some of the subsequent replies I rather think I was somewhat charitable and restrained.

Smug, petit bourgois, mean minded ######wits springs to mind as a more suitable description.

Perhaps I ought to repeat an earlier point but in terms even the most obtuse of you might comprehend. The smuggling of illicit drugs, and human trafficking for that matter, is carried out in Thailand by Thai in collusion with the Thai authorities, protected by Thai politicians. The judicial system is corrupt and connives at this illegal trade but on occasion will not shrink from legitimising itself by potting a wastrel farang such as this hapless fool to what may pass for the full rigour of the law. It is no deterrent but simply a sop to be lapped up by an unquestionning public including dozy farang who really ought to know better.

30 years for a handful of speed tabs? Just as obscene and medieval as stoning an adulteress to death or amputating a thief's hand for petty theft but cognitive thought in this forum is not a phenomenon one is likely to encounter, is it?

You are wasting your time with some of the dullards that inhabit this forum.

They are not interested in looking any further than the bottom of their beer glasses or where to find their next prostitute to shag.

They feel quite good when their own narrow prejudices are reinforced and even better when they have the opportunity to put the boot into some poor unfortunate who has become a victim of a rather nasty and corrupt judicial and political system.

Looking for sympathy here is akin to finding a pacifist at the colleseum on games day.

[skippybangkok]

mmm dont drink beer (wine occaisionally, yes) ....... dont shag pro's...... guess i dont fit your profile.

Unfortunately, there are some people out there who would prefer a slap on the wrist for drug traffiking.

[zzap]

Could it be that most folks consider something in between the extremes of 30 years and a slap on the wrist as appropriate?

[Kerryd]

Could it be that most folks consider something in between the extremes of 30 years and a slap on the wrist as appropriate?

It makes me wonder when some people get so upset because a guy who was caught smuggling HARD CORE (Class 1) drugs (for the purpose of trafficking them) gets a stiff prison sentence.

Why are they against having traffickers and dealers serve hard time ?

Do they like the idea of more and more people (usually young people) getting hooked on drugs ?

Are they concerned about their own futures for some reason ?

Do they want to see AIDs infected addicts, pushers and pimps taking over large areas of Thai cities (like you see in major N American and Euro cities) ?

Ever see the movie Traffic ? Guy gets a girl stoned in the movie, then has sex with her (which is why he got her stoned in the first place). She gets hooked and ends up having to have sex with her pusher in exchange for drugs.

Sadly, that wasn't a "made-up" plot. That is how a lot of women end up hooking on the streets. Dealers get them hooked, then put them to work to support their habits.

Are these the kind of people you want running around your neighbourhood ? Do you think giving these guys a little slap on the wrist and putting them back on the street is a good idea ? The majority of them would go straight back into the same business as soon as they were let out (easy "work", easy money).

The drug problem in Thailand used to be real bad. Now it's starting to get that way again. Giving out soft sentences to smugglers and dealers certainly won't help the problem.

[zzap]

Do they want to see AIDs infected addicts, pushers and pimps taking over large areas of Thai cities (like you see in major N American and Euro cities) ?

Well, that's a long shot from bringing a few speed tablets across the border! I didn't know you could contract AIDS from smoking Yabaa.

I don't want to make any lenghty arguments right now, so please forgive my brevity and pointedness.

But, has it ever occured to you that someone who would risk his life being ruined by a 30 years prison sentence for a few speed tablets for a profit of 200-300 Dollars, might be a little mentally disturbed, not your stereotypical evil drugtrafficker/pusher?

There is a school of thought which considers addicts and small time dealers as being afflicted by an illness, and in need of help rather than draconian punishment.

[Kerryd]

Well, that's a long shot from bringing a few speed tablets across the border! I didn't know you could contract AIDS from smoking Yabaa.

No, but when these people get addicted, and start having unprotected sex with johns and pimps and pushers, a lot of them get aids (at least that's how it works in many N American cities).

I don't want to make any lenghty arguments right now, so please forgive my brevity and pointedness.

But, has it ever occured to you that someone who would risk his life being ruined by a 30 years prison sentence for a few speed tablets for a profit of 200-300 Dollars, might be a little mentally disturbed, not your stereotypical evil drugtrafficker/pusher?

Yeah, I tend to get carried away with my replies (does anyone manage to stay awake through the whole thing ?).

We don't know if this was the first and only time this guy smuggled drugs (if it was, you'd think he would have mentioned it when he was arrested, but maybe not). Chances are, he's done this before.

By my calculations, his profits for this run would have been around $1,500 US (he claims he was going to sell the pills at 300 baht each, after buying them for 49 baht each. The Thai guy arrested a few days ago claimed he sold the pills at prices from 250-500 baht each).

Like a lot of stupid criminals, he probably never thought he would be caught (I think I mentioned this in a previous reply). If he had done this run one or more times before, he was probably pretty confident that he would get away with it.

There is a school of thought which considers addicts and small time dealers as being afflicted by an illness, and in need of help rather than draconian punishment.

Yeah, I heard that all the time in Vancouver. It's a social problem, not a criminal one. Judges let dealers and traffickers off with little or no jail time at all. These are guys dealing in Heroin, Crack, Coke and other hard core drugs.

The addicts are a social problem. Most of the dealers, even the low level ones, don't touch their own product. Fact is, you can't trust a junkie, period. A junkie dealer ? Not likely.

The dealers depend on an ever increasing supply of addicts to sell their crap to. Law of supply and demand. The more junkies there are, the more drugs you can sell. The dealers don't care how the junkies get the money. They don't care if the junkies get infected with diseases or commit crimes to come up with the money.

Hurford claims he was going to sell the pills to other tourists. Does that mean he should be treated nicer than a Thai guy who would probably going to sell his pills to anyone that had money ? Do we know for sure that Hurford was only going to sell to tourists ? Does that make his offense less "punishable" ?

If you can't crack down on the people that are supplying the drugs to the people, how can you expect to control the problem, whether it is a social or a criminal one ?

[britmaveric]

No sympathies for sad muppets who deal/caught w/drugs in SEA. If don't like what the possible consequences are then ply your business elsewhere.

[gburns57au]

Well, that's a long shot from bringing a few speed tablets across the border! I didn't know you could contract AIDS from smoking Yabaa.

No, but when these people get addicted, and start having unprotected sex with johns and pimps and pushers, a lot of them get aids (at least that's how it works in many N American cities).

I don't want to make any lenghty arguments right now, so please forgive my brevity and pointedness.

But, has it ever occured to you that someone who would risk his life being ruined by a 30 years prison sentence for a few speed tablets for a profit of 200-300 Dollars, might be a little mentally disturbed, not your stereotypical evil drugtrafficker/pusher?

Yeah, I tend to get carried away with my replies (does anyone manage to stay awake through the whole thing ?).

We don't know if this was the first and only time this guy smuggled drugs (if it was, you'd think he would have mentioned it when he was arrested, but maybe not). Chances are, he's done this before.

By my calculations, his profits for this run would have been around $1,500 US (he claims he was going to sell the pills at 300 baht each, after buying them for 49 baht each. The Thai guy arrested a few days ago claimed he sold the pills at prices from 250-500 baht each).

Like a lot of stupid criminals, he probably never thought he would be caught (I think I mentioned this in a previous reply). If he had done this run one or more times before, he was probably pretty confident that he would get away with it.

There is a school of thought which considers addicts and small time dealers as being afflicted by an illness, and in need of help rather than draconian punishment.

Yeah, I heard that all the time in Vancouver. It's a social problem, not a criminal one. Judges let dealers and traffickers off with little or no jail time at all. These are guys dealing in Heroin, Crack, Coke and other hard core drugs.

The addicts are a social problem. Most of the dealers, even the low level ones, don't touch their own product. Fact is, you can't trust a junkie, period. A junkie dealer ? Not likely.

The dealers depend on an ever increasing supply of addicts to sell their crap to. Law of supply and demand. The more junkies there are, the more drugs you can sell. The dealers don't care how the junkies get the money. They don't care if the junkies get infected with diseases or commit crimes to come up with the money.

Hurford claims he was going to sell the pills to other tourists. Does that mean he should be treated nicer than a Thai guy who would probably going to sell his pills to anyone that had money ? Do we know for sure that Hurford was only going to sell to tourists ? Does that make his offense less "punishable" ?

If you can't crack down on the people that are supplying the drugs to the people, how can you expect to control the problem, whether it is a social or a criminal one ?

Gotta agree here....if there was no Yaba...there would be no addicts...there would be no market for the dealers or traffickers...The claim of only supplying to tourists was to try and lessen his ultimate sentence..."I wasnt going to sell to Thais"...yeah BS !! he would have sold to whoever had the money.

Since when was smoking the only way to ingest speed....many inject it and this is where the HIV risk comes into it. Just to make a point...if it is injected into the bloodstream the "rush" comes quicker than if it is ingested by other means...also people become addicted to the needle and the quick "fix"

It is more than the fact that addicts will do whatever to get their next fix, including home burgs, home invasions and even murder....it is the long term effects that come into account...anyone familiar with Speed Psychosis...more and more people are being treated for this...the cost to the community for treating Speed related disorders is on the increase.

Drug dealers are the scum of the earth....and deserve the harshest penalties availiable.

[Mobi]

In my earlier post I used the conditional tense. Having read some of the subsequent replies I rather think I was somewhat charitable and restrained.

Smug, petit bourgois, mean minded ######wits springs to mind as a more suitable description.

Perhaps I ought to repeat an earlier point but in terms even the most obtuse of you might comprehend. The smuggling of illicit drugs, and human trafficking for that matter, is carried out in Thailand by Thai in collusion with the Thai authorities, protected by Thai politicians. The judicial system is corrupt and connives at this illegal trade but on occasion will not shrink from legitimising itself by potting a wastrel farang such as this hapless fool to what may pass for the full rigour of the law. It is no deterrent but simply a sop to be lapped up by an unquestionning public including dozy farang who really ought to know better.

30 years for a handful of speed tabs? Just as obscene and medieval as stoning an adulteress to death or amputating a thief's hand for petty theft but cognitive thought in this forum is not a phenomenon one is likely to encounter, is it?

You are wasting your time with some of the dullards that inhabit this forum.

They are not interested in looking any further than the bottom of their beer glasses or where to find their next prostitute to shag.

They feel quite good when their own narrow prejudices are reinforced and even better when they have the opportunity to put the boot into some poor unfortunate who has become a victim of a rather nasty and corrupt judicial and political system.

Looking for sympathy here is akin to finding a pacifist at the colleseum on games day.

What I don't understand is why you. Tolley, and The Gent, find it necessary to resort to cheap jibes and insults in an effort to force your point of view on others.

Like skippybangkok, and I'm sure many others on this thread, I don't shag prostitutes, and speaking personally, I am now teetotal.

This is a very serious subject and many of us have very strong views. Just because someone disagrees with your point of view, is that a reason to insult them? If you can't have a civilised argument and respect other people's opinions, without dismissing them as ignorant drunks who spend their time screwing whores, then I'm afraid that makes you every bit as diplorable as the authorities you are so fond of criticising.

Why The Gent ever chose that name, I'll never know as he is the very antithsis of everything a so- called 'gentlemen' should stand for.

The two of you make me feel very sad.

[zzap]

Well, that's a long shot from bringing a few speed tablets across the border! I didn't know you could contract AIDS from smoking Yabaa.

No, but when these people get addicted, and start having unprotected sex with johns and pimps and pushers, a lot of them get aids (at least that's how it works in many N American cities).

Fair enough, but it is still a long way from this particular guy to your scenario.

Yeah, I tend to get carried away with my replies (does anyone manage to stay awake through the whole thing ?).

Yeah, I do. I appreciate your generally well thought out comments, though I often disagree.

We don't know if this was the first and only time this guy smuggled drugs (if it was, you'd think he would have mentioned it when he was arrested, but maybe not). Chances are, he's done this before.

By my calculations, his profits for this run would have been around $1,500 US (he claims he was going to sell the pills at 300 baht each, after buying them for 49 baht each. The Thai guy arrested a few days ago claimed he sold the pills at prices from 250-500 baht each).

Like a lot of stupid criminals, he probably never thought he would be caught (I think I mentioned this in a previous reply). If he had done this run one or more times before, he was probably pretty confident that he would get away with it.

Again, fair enough. Ok, so it's $1.500, still a small amount to risk ruining your life. He might well have done this before, sort of financing his visa-run and securing his own supply, I'd guess. But that's speculation, the amounts are still minute if you are familiar with the overall picture. Some stupid sucker who got screwed, nothing more, IMHO.

There is a school of thought which considers addicts and small time dealers as being afflicted by an illness, and in need of help rather than draconian punishment.

Yeah, I heard that all the time in Vancouver. It's a social problem, not a criminal one. Judges let dealers and traffickers off with little or no jail time at all. These are guys dealing in Heroin, Crack, Coke and other hard core drugs.

You have a point here, but with Hurford we're talking about 30 years, not quite the same as in Vancouver.

The addicts are a social problem. Most of the dealers, even the low level ones, don't touch their own product. Fact is, you can't trust a junkie, period. A junkie dealer ? Not likely.

A yabaa head is not a junkie, and many low level dealers in Thailand deal to finance their own 'need'. "Can't trust a junkie", ehh? That depends on circumstance, there are white-collar addicts who defy the stereotype.

The dealers depend on an ever increasing supply of addicts to sell their crap to. Law of supply and demand. The more junkies there are, the more drugs you can sell. The dealers don't care how the junkies get the money. They don't care if the junkies get infected with diseases or commit crimes to come up with the money.

Who does enquire in business where their clients' money originates from? Last time I bought a case of beer, the shop wasn't concerned about what I'd do with it, neither.

Hurford claims he was going to sell the pills to other tourists. Does that mean he should be treated nicer than a Thai guy who would probably going to sell his pills to anyone that had money ? Do we know for sure that Hurford was only going to sell to tourists ? Does that make his offense less "punishable" ?

If you can't crack down on the people that are supplying the drugs to the people, how can you expect to control the problem, whether it is a social or a criminal one ?

Does it really matter who he was going to sell to? As I put forward already, I believe the guy is not a 'serious' supplier - how far would 240 tabs go until his next visa-run? He might be able to supply one or two "addicts" for a month, or several curious tourists on a casual basis.

I do not disagree with you in principle, but looking into the details of this particular 'case', most of your arguments crumble into being non-applicable.

[zzap]

....

Gotta agree here....if there was no Yaba...there would be no addicts...there would be no market for the dealers or traffickers...The claim of only supplying to tourists was to try and lessen his ultimate sentence..."I wasnt going to sell to Thais"...yeah BS !! he would have sold to whoever had the money.

Since when was smoking the only way to ingest speed....many inject it and this is where the HIV risk comes into it. Just to make a point...if it is injected into the bloodstream the "rush" comes quicker than if it is ingested by other means...also people become addicted to the needle and the quick "fix"

It is more than the fact that addicts will do whatever to get their next fix, including home burgs, home invasions and even murder....it is the long term effects that come into account...anyone familiar with Speed Psychosis...more and more people are being treated for this...the cost to the community for treating Speed related disorders is on the increase.

Drug dealers are the scum of the earth....and deserve the harshest penalties availiable.

Let's slow down a minute here:

No drugs=no addicts? that's simplistic, surely there is a dynamic between demand and supply, and if one particular drug isn't available or overpriced, the 'users' will switch to another (empirical personal research data ).

Yabaa injected and users sharing needles? - maybe in Australia, in LOS that's the exception.

Speed induced mental "psychosis", I agree with this one. So it is a disorder which needs to be treated rather than punished? There is precious little in Thailand to fall back on...

Drug dealers=scum of the earth? As said earlier, many ("psychotic" in your words) users deal to secure their own supply.

Please rethink your comment!

[gburns57au]

Let's slow down a minute here:

No drugs=no addicts? that's simplistic, surely there is a dynamic between demand and supply, and if one particular drug isn't available or overpriced, the 'users' will switch to another (empirical personal research data ).

Yabaa injected and users sharing needles? - maybe in Australia, in LOS that's the exception.

Speed induced mental "psychosis", I agree with this one. So it is a disorder which needs to be treated rather than punished? There is precious little in Thailand to fall back on...

Drug dealers=scum of the earth? As said earlier, many ("psychotic" in your words) users deal to secure their own supply.

Please rethink your comment!

Yes there is a dynamic between supply and demand....no demand of any drug and therefore no supply.

No needle users in LOS....get real...as I said it is the best and quickest way to get the rush...that is undeniable....have you heard the term ...addicted to metal...it refers to hardcore users who want the fix as quick as possible.

you agree with speed pyschosis....then you must agree that without speed there would be no such pyschosis problem...If these people had not taken speed in the first place then they would not have the problem.

Once someone is addicted to the drug then they usually resort to dealing to pay back the credit they get off the dealers, This ensures the merry go round continues...it is a merry go round that many cant get off...the more they use the more they must deal...supply and demand indeed.

I dont need to re think my comment....as I have stated before...I see the effects of speed and other drugs all the time...I have seen kids from good backgrounds and with good education &lt;deleted&gt; their lives ups because of drugs...I have seen kids that were born into the drug culture and never had the chance to do something with their lives. Do I feel sorry for them...yes I do....do I feel sorry for the people that hook these kids and feed the habits...NO I DONT....they are the scum.

240 tabs is not small time...it shows that he has dealt small time before and was moving up in the world....before long he would have been moving much bigger amounts...thats the way it goes in the drug world.

[zzap]

I expected a reply of a different calibre from you, burnsy.

Yes there is a dynamic between supply and demand....no demand of any drug and therefore no supply.

Tell me where there is no demand!

No needle users in LOS....get real...as I said it is the best and quickest way to get the rush...that is undeniable....have you heard the term ...addicted to metal...it refers to hardcore users who want the fix as quick as possible.

Any research data on use of syringes for yabaa? It's a risky thing to do, chances are the liquid will crystallise before or during injection if you use too little water or got the wrong source of tabs. There is one brand of "WY" which was specifically designed for injecting, but it's rather uncommon. Bet you didn't know this?

you agree with speed pyschosis....then you must agree that without speed there would be no such pyschosis problem...If these people had not taken speed in the first place then they would not have the problem.

That's wishful thinking. Any chance of replying to the points I made?

Once someone is addicted to the drug then they usually resort to dealing to pay back the credit they get off the dealers, This ensures the merry go round continues...it is a merry go round that many cant get off...the more they use the more they must deal...supply and demand indeed.

Never heard of a dealer in Thailand extending credit....An Assie fairy tale?

I dont need to re think my comment....as I have stated before...I see the effects of speed and other drugs all the time...I have seen kids from good backgrounds and with good education &lt;deleted&gt; their lives ups because of drugs...I have seen kids that were born into the drug culture and never had the chance to do something with their lives. Do I feel sorry for them...yes I do....do I feel sorry for the people that hook these kids and feed the habits...NO I DONT....they are the scum.

Again, any chance of replying to what I said, specifically to the Thai situation?

240 tabs is not small time...it shows that he has dealt small time before and was moving up in the world....before long he would have been moving much bigger amounts...thats the way it goes in the drug world.

240 tabs=big time? Which planet do you live on?

"moving up" - that's speculation, you should know better than pulling this argument... -aren't you involved in some official role in Aussie courts?

--shame on you for your ignorance!

[skippybangkok]

Mobi..... I think we need to recognize a few things

1. The aloof will try to up themselves by flaming others when they cannot get their point accross - or if there is disagreement.

2. I think its clear on this site there are people with other oppinions. Same as they guy who destroyed the budda yesterday, and the cartoons last month.... there should be a possibility to discuss things without flaming people. From memory I dont flame first, but will give plenty back if the aloof try to up themselves ( and if I have flamed first....appologies )

3. I would be interested to see if one of the drug pushers / addicts or criminals did something bad to the aloof's family ( i.e. murder / pedophilia ), and see if they are still ok with it and give them a consultantion cause they "had a hard life" or have a mental issue.

[gburns57au]

I expected a reply of a different calibre from you, burnsy.

Yes there is a dynamic between supply and demand....no demand of any drug and therefore no supply.

Tell me where there is no demand!

tell me what and who creates the demand first.

No needle users in LOS....get real...as I said it is the best and quickest way to get the rush...that is undeniable....have you heard the term ...addicted to metal...it refers to hardcore users who want the fix as quick as possible.

Any research data on use of syringes for yabaa? It's a risky thing to do, chances are the liquid will crystallise before or during injection if you use too little water or got the wrong source of tabs. There is one brand of "WY" which was specifically designed for injecting, but it's rather uncommon. Bet you didn't know this?

Most users start with the easier and slower forms of ingestion...as the need increases, so does the expertise in the ingestion methods...had some guys here who tried to inject bourbon direct...silly pricks nearly killed themselves searching for the quicker hit

.

you agree with speed pyschosis....then you must agree that without speed there would be no such pyschosis problem...If these people had not taken speed in the first place then they would not have the problem.

That's wishful thinking. Any chance of replying to the points I made?

I wont get into a discussion here on the merits of any countries mental health systems....my point was that if speed and other drugs were not available then there would not be drug psychosis problems....there are many mentally ill people that are not the result of drug use...treat them first.

Once someone is addicted to the drug then they usually resort to dealing to pay back the credit they get off the dealers, This ensures the merry go round continues...it is a merry go round that many cant get off...the more they use the more they must deal...supply and demand indeed.

Never heard of a dealer in Thailand extending credit....An Assie fairy tale?

You dont get around much do you ??

I dont need to re think my comment....as I have stated before...I see the effects of speed and other drugs all the time...I have seen kids from good backgrounds and with good education &lt;deleted&gt; their lives ups because of drugs...I have seen kids that were born into the drug culture and never had the chance to do something with their lives. Do I feel sorry for them...yes I do....do I feel sorry for the people that hook these kids and feed the habits...NO I DONT....they are the scum.

Again, any chance of replying to what I said, specifically to the Thai situation?

I must have missed a post or a sentence or two here....

240 tabs is not small time...it shows that he has dealt small time before and was moving up in the world....before long he would have been moving much bigger amounts...thats the way it goes in the drug world.

240 tabs=big time? Which planet do you live on?

"moving up" - that's speculation, you should know better than pulling this argument... -aren't you involved in some official role in Aussie courts?

--shame on you for your ignorance!

Shame on me for recognising a trend that I see so many times in the court system...I see people prosecuted for as little as 20 tabs...and go to jail for it....that is small time...240 tabs is middle to high range offending...you can bet that if I took 40 tabs off him to on sell to the street he would have sold to me... that makes him at least in the second tier of dealing...a middle man....I live on planet real....where are you??

[zzap]

This is not a pissing contest, burns.

I tried to make some valid points for serious consideration...

I question your knowledge of the Thai drug scene.

240 tabs trafficking: it is very minute, do your research.

Credit extended: Do you have any first hand knowledge of the scene in Los?

-I didn't think so...

Mental disorders: the drugs are here, the people need to be dealt with - prison for 30 years, or a rehab program, which would be more effective in reintegrating them into society? - if you want to reintegrate people,.

Burning them at the stake might be an alternative which would provide entertainment and pleasure for a portion of TV-members and the general public, no doubt.

[zzap]

Mobi..... I think we need to recognize a few things

1. The aloof will try to up themselves by flaming others when they cannot get their point accross - or if there is disagreement.

2. I think its clear on this site there are people with other oppinions. Same as they guy who destroyed the budda yesterday, and the cartoons last month.... there should be a possibility to discuss things without flaming people. From memory I dont flame first, but will give plenty back if the aloof try to up themselves ( and if I have flamed first....appologies )

3. I would be interested to see if one of the drug pushers / addicts or criminals did something bad to the aloof's family ( i.e. murder / pedophilia ), and see if they are still ok with it and give them a consultantion cause they "had a hard life" or have a mental issue.

I know it's asking a lot, but please try to stay on topic and provide some rational, reasoned argument for whatever your opinion might be, which isn't clear at this moment, I am afraid to say.

[wilko]

I'm absolutely astounded by the ignorance and bigotry in this posting….the original argument was about the inhumanity of the sentence.

The follow ups have displayed a startling ignorance about drugs and drug abuse…it’s like reading a 1950s. tabloid newspaper!

[wilko]

Oh-contrair ( well so much for my poor French )........ Recon Kerryd has done a great job summerizing things.

If you cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Why have we got these whining falangs complaining about the sentances for drug runners..........

Question: How many foreigners get done for drug running in Singapore, and how many in Thailand. I think there is a difference ( and as such, does it mean the death penalty really does help ? ). Any retiree or person with time to research this, would be interested to know the results. to be fair, should be apple to apple comparison ( i.e. % falang convicted per tourist arrival or soemthing like that )

Your comprehension seems to be as bad as your French...where does that have any relevance to the argument that the sentence is severe and inhumane?

[Mobi]

Mobi..... I think we need to recognize a few things

1. The aloof will try to up themselves by flaming others when they cannot get their point accross - or if there is disagreement.

2. I think its clear on this site there are people with other oppinions. Same as they guy who destroyed the budda yesterday, and the cartoons last month.... there should be a possibility to discuss things without flaming people. From memory I dont flame first, but will give plenty back if the aloof try to up themselves ( and if I have flamed first....appologies )

3. I would be interested to see if one of the drug pushers / addicts or criminals did something bad to the aloof's family ( i.e. murder / pedophilia ), and see if they are still ok with it and give them a consultantion cause they "had a hard life" or have a mental issue.

I know it's asking a lot, but please try to stay on topic and provide some rational, reasoned argument for whatever your opinion might be, which isn't clear at this moment, I am afraid to say.

If you bother to read my and Skippybangkok's previous posts, .and then have a look at Tolley and The Gents flaming posts, you will know exactly what we are talking about......

[skippybangkok]

Tis ok Mobi..... I donned my fire mans gear...only got singed a little.

Add Wilko to the Aloof List...

All I can say, is, we will wait and see. If the day ( god / the big one forbid ) comes that these Aloof-ers families get stung by such characters - they might sing a different tune.

I lived in Holland for 12 years, and their incarceration system is a joke. ( but "humane" ). Leave a packet of cigarettes on the dash board of your car, and your screen will be smashed before dawn. Lock you bicycle out on 1 chain locks instead of 2, and it is gone the next day. Walk from the main train station at night ( i.e. 7pm ) to the boarding house where I used to live when I studied in amsterdam, and you are likely to get held at knife point. Very Humane place. I can tell you its far far safer here.

For those who dont like the strict Thai laws / or at times the abuse / twisting there of...... GO HOME !

If you humane legal systems are so great, and you country is so superior, then what are you doing here to start off with ( oh yeh, coming to bring humanity to this place ...forgot ).

Edited March 23, 2006 by skippybangkok

[skippybangkok]

+ did I tell you the time My 750cc honda got stolen in Holland. They caught the guys, they got a slap on the wrist from the court, and were out and up to their old tricks the week later.

[Tolley]

For all those posters who believe that draconian sentencing is the answer to the worlds drug problems i suggest you think again.

The state sponsored assassinations of many innocent individuals which were a hallmark of Thaksins anti drug crusade did nothing to curb the drug problem in Thailand. In fact there is a good argument that actually maps this crackdown with an escalation in violence in the general community and a spike in drug prices.

The big players in the drug scene ie the connected families, police , military and politicians had a field day in so far as they had the opportunity to legally "wipe out" opponents and as a bonus with the spike in prices managed to increase theri already huge profits.

The hapless farang who was caught at the border was a small time nothing who was obviously drug addled enough not realise the risks he was taking. He is the perfect fall guy or patsy for those much higher up the drug food chain. It makes great headlines and does nothing to solve Thailand's drug problems.

The sentence he recieved is maifestly out of proportion to the crime he committed and how posters here can stand up on their high horses and state otherwise astounds me.

The fact that the drug laws may be well known does not make them fair or reasonable. Do you think that it is fair or reasonable that a woman caght having extramarital sex under shariah law should be stoned to death? Is this fair or reasonable? Would you say "serves you right" you knew the law.

The powers that be love people who can't think beyond the sensationalists headlines that they read. It means they can go about their business making dirty money and from time to time sacrifice some poor loser pretty far down the drug chain and claim they are doing their best to stamp out the menace of illicit drugs, and in Thailand all the better if it is a farang.

[Terminator]

just make it legal by doctors free presciption and you get rid of 90% of the drugs problem

anyways, going for a blowjob now

[Kerryd]

For all those posters who believe that draconian sentencing is the answer to the worlds drug problems i suggest you think again.

Well, it got rid of at least one drug dealer for the next 30 years (one down, xxx to go).

The state sponsored assassinations of many innocent individuals which were a hallmark of Thaksins anti drug crusade did nothing to curb the drug problem in Thailand. In fact there is a good argument that actually maps this crackdown with an escalation in violence in the general community and a spike in drug prices.

Yes, there was a lot of press about what many people saw as "extra-judicial" killings, and a lot of claims about this being an excuse to wipe out the opposition (though nobody I've heard of has ever been able to offer any proof to that part).

Spike in drug price ? I'd say that's a good thing actually. Think about it for a second. Western Governments tax the snot out of cigarettes. They claim that by keeping the prices artificially high, they are preventing young people from buying them. When ever the price (taxes) drop, there is a noticeable increase in the number of young smokers.

Same for drugs (maybe ?). If the supply is high and the price low, that just makes it easier for more young people to have access.

Low supply and high price would mean many young Thais would not be able to afford it (on a recreational basis) and therefore are less likely to become full-blown addicts. 300 baht for a single yaa baa pill is pretty expensive for the average Thai. 500 Baht is even worse. The majority of users (and full-blown addicts) in Thailand are teenagers !!!!!

The big players in the drug scene ie the connected families, police , military and politicians had a field day in so far as they had the opportunity to legally "wipe out" opponents and as a bonus with the spike in prices managed to increase theri already huge profits.

But higher up in your reply (quoted above) you labelled them as "innocent individuals", now you are calling them "opponents" of the big players. If they were members of rival drug gangs, I would hardly call them innocent. Doesn't justify the extra-judicial killings either way.

As for the price spikes. This isn't oil we're talking about. I don't think their profits rise dramatically when the supply is reduced, as they price themselves out of range of a lot of people in their market (the Thais).

The hapless farang who was caught at the border was a small time nothing who was obviously drug addled enough not realise the risks he was taking. He is the perfect fall guy or patsy for those much higher up the drug food chain. It makes great headlines and does nothing to solve Thailand's drug problems.

Problem with that statement is that a week later they busted a Thai guy, who had bought a similar amount of yaba, at the same border crossing ! (Though according to the news story, the Thai guy apparently paid more for his pills, and was selling them for more as well).

Can't bust too many "patsies", farang or otherwise, or you'll end up with no one to actually sell your drugs !

The sentence he recieved is maifestly out of proportion to the crime he committed and how posters here can stand up on their high horses and state otherwise astounds me.

I think the problem here is that people keep trying to compare what is done in Thailand, with what is done in their homeland. If Thailand has harsher penalties than their home country for something, people say it's unfair.

What is not fair is for people to travel to a foreign country and start trying to impose their standards on that country, especially in another democracy. If Thailand decides that 30+ years in prison is an appropriate sentence, then that is what is appropriate for Thailand.

It may not be appropriate for a similar felony in England, Holland, Canada or many other western countries, but it is the appropriate sentence here.

As I pointed out in one of my other lengthy replies, the sentence Hurford received was actually on the low end of the scale by Thai standards.

I can stand on my high horse (or bar stool) proudly. I wish other countries would start getting tougher with their drug dealers/smugglers. Treat the addicts as a social problem sure, but start putting the criminals that supply those addicts behind bars and keep them there.

The fact that the drug laws may be well known does not make them fair or reasonable. Do you think that it is fair or reasonable that a woman caght having extramarital sex under shariah law should be stoned to death? Is this fair or reasonable? Would you say "serves you right" you knew the law.

I asked this before (wasn't you though was it ?). Would you knowingly smuggle drugs into Thailand knowing that you could go to Thai prison for 30+ years, even for what you consider to be a small amount of drugs ?

So if a guy who knows what the punishment could be, still tries to smuggle drugs into the country, we should feel sorry for him when he gets what he deserves (by Thai standards) ?

As for Sharia law, you have to remember that most of the countries that use it are not democracies, but dictatorships and/or theocracies (ruled by religious clergy). Sharia law is based on religion, not what the society as a whole considers fair and just punishment, but what Mohammed decided was suitable punishment 1,400 years ago.

Having said that, I would make dang sure I never stole anything while in a Muslim country (they cut off your right hand for a first offense)

The powers that be love people who can't think beyond the sensationalists headlines that they read. It means they can go about their business making dirty money and from time to time sacrifice some poor loser pretty far down the drug chain and claim they are doing their best to stamp out the menace of illicit drugs, and in Thailand all the better if it is a farang.

That's a pretty broad generalization. Any facts to back it up ? I know it's a common perception, in a country as corrupt as Thailand, that the "powers that be" must have their fingers in the pie. If so, none of them have made any mistakes and been caught yet, that I've heard of. That in itself is unusual in a business that eats it's own young (turns on one another at the drop of a hat so to speak). Surely by now we would have heard of someone high (really high) getting busted after making a mistake or having a falling out with his counter-parts ?

Again, how many Thai papers do you read, or Thai news do you watch ? I'm still trying to find a Thai that can give me an idea about how often Thais get busted for drugs. I imagine it happens a lot, but doesn't get reported in the foreign (english) newspapers and TV.

Yes, busting a farang makes the news, especially the english news. Almost anything a farang does here (illegally) makes the news.

And despite all the news about farangs getting busted for smuggling/dealing drugs, they still do it !

Is it that they just don't get it ? Is it that they think they'll never be caught ? Is it that they think if they are caught, they'll get treated easier because they are farangs ?

I mean, how hard is it to figure out ? The punishment in Thailand is (as you put it) "draconian", yet they still do it ! And when they get caught, others say it just isn't fair.

Well, he's lucky he did it in Thailand. Many other SE Asian countries don't think twice about executing foreigners caught with drugs. Thailand at least hasn't (yet) executed a foreigner for anything (in modern history at least).