Expired / Not Returned Work Permit

[scorecard]

Here's a twister for our WP experts:

Farang (from UK) decides to work for a few years in Thailand:

- Finds a good positon in an expert engineering role with a multinational on the Eastern seaboard.

- Employed as a local employee, one year renewable contract, very good salary, no expat benefits, three weeks annual leave entitlement for first year of employment, WP and appropriate visa all set up properly and quickly.

- After 11 months gets a phone call, father is dying and expected to pass away within 24 hours.

- Farang MD of the company realily agrees for employee to take urgent leave for two weeks.

- Father gravely ill but hangs on, MD readily agrees to extended the leave to three weeks.

- Father hangs on, MD readily agrees to extend as unpaid leave for an undefined period.

- MD readily agrees to reemploy the guy whenever he can get back to Thailand.

- Father now passes away, but mother now gravely ill, the engineer is the only child of the family so he stays on in UK to take care of mother.

- Eight months later mother passes on.

- Engineer has kept regular contact with the MD, who has agreed to reemploy the engineer whenever he can get back to Thailand.

- Engineer now settling all his parents affairs in UK and planning to return to Thailand in May 2013, MD has reconfirmed that he can take up his old role, with an upgrade to a senior management position.

- The WP is in the UK, it has never been cancelled and obviously not been returned to the Thai Labour dept.

The obvious questions:

Q1. Is there a fine or some other sanction for not cancelling a WP?

Q2. Is there a fine or some other sanction for not returning a WP?

Some factual answers, not flaming, not wild opinions of what the the Thai Labour Dept., rules should be, much appreciated. Thanks.

Edited April 13, 2013 by scorecard

[ubonjoe]

Since the work permit has been allowed to expire there is no need for it to be cancelled.

There is no requirement to return the work permit.

I suggest you have your employer send you a letter stating you have job waiting for you and use that to get a single entry B visa from one of he honorary consulates in the UK (IE: Hull) before you return to Thailand. This would make it much easier to get a new work permit and extension of stay and avoid having to make a trip out for a B visa.

[Mario2008]

Q1: Yes, there is a fin and it can lead to problems in getting a new WP.

Q2. No, it does not have to be returned, but some labour offices have different opinions on that. As stated above, having the employer sending a letter to labour informing them of the termination of contract and per what date would be enough.

But it might be that as you were not fired, only had leave without pay, you are still employed by the company and it is a simple matter of the WP having expired. That still means a new WP, also because you will have a new function.

Do get a new non-B before you return to Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

How can you cancel an expired work permit.

It states in the working alien act of 2008 that the work permit does not have to be returned.

[BrianCR]

It has to be returned officially if it has expired or is cancelled however, if it is not there is nothing under law that allows them to take any action UNTIL, you wish to apply for a new work permit. During your application you will be asked details of your old permit and then asked for the document you received when you surrendered it. Unfortunately the poster doesn't have this document proving the WP's return.<br />CORRECT ANSWER TO BOTH QUESTIONS - Go to your local police station, before you reapply for a work permit, inform them that you have lost the ORIGINAL work permit and that you have no idea where or how it got lost! NEVER say WHERE as they will refer you to a police station near where you claim it was lost! They will charge you 2000 baht (with receipt) and issue you a document stating that your previous WP was lost. You then submit that document instead of the document you would have received when you surrendered it! Problem solved - have a good Songkran!

[digitalchromakey]

How can you cancel an expired work permit.

It states in the working alien act of 2008 that the work permit does not have to be returned.

Under the 2008 Alien Act, the WP doesn't have to be returned but it does have to be cancelled.

Actually It's pretty easy to do, you take the WP into Labour and say you want to cancel it, fill out some forms, go to the local Police Station with the papers Labour will give you, report your 'crime', pay a fine for late cancellation, go back to Labour file the papers - daa daa it's done and Labour will then be happy to process a new WP application.

If you don't do the cancellation Labour will almost certainly refuse a new application.

[BrianCR]

How can you cancel an expired work permit.

It states in the working alien act of 2008 that the work permit does not have to be returned.

Under the 2008 Alien Act, the WP doesn't have to be returned but it does have to be cancelled.

Actually It's pretty easy to do, you take the WP into Labour and say you want to cancel it, fill out some forms, go to the local Police Station with the papers Labour will give you, report your 'crime', pay a fine for late cancellation, go back to Labour file the papers - daa daa it's done and Labour will then be happy to process a new WP application.

If you don't do the cancellation Labour will almost certainly refuse a new application.

Agreed, except you do not require documents from the labour to go to the police - on reflection however it would be easier to explain what you want if you have documents - the poster shouldn't need to worry this happens dozens of times a day including twice with me!

[BrianCR]

Q1: Yes, there is a fin and it can lead to problems in getting a new WP.

Q2. No, it does not have to be returned, but some labour offices have different opinions on that. As stated above, having the employer sending a letter to labour informing them of the termination of contract and per what date would be enough.

But it might be that as you were not fired, only had leave without pay, you are still employed by the company and it is a simple matter of the WP having expired. That still means a new WP, also because you will have a new function.

Do get a new non-B before you return to Thailand.

If he is still employed by the Company he had better look forward to paying tax on his non-earnings. Tax has to be paid on 50,000 baht if earned or not if you expect a second WP. Easier to have just 'lost' the work permit.

[BrianCR]

How can you cancel an expired work permit.

It states in the working alien act of 2008 that the work permit does not have to be returned.

Ubon, you don't actually cancel it you inform the labour department that the WP and work it was issued for have been completed

[wayned]

I worked with someone who had taught in Thailand and then went to Korea and taught for a year. He never returned or cancelled his WP. When he came back to Thailand and started working where I did, the local labor office would not issue him a new work permit until he returned his old expired WP to the labor office that issued it and got a receipt, Tor Tor 10 form, showing that he had returned it. What is stated in the Alien Labor Act of 2008 is up to the interpretation of the individual Labor Office and shoving the law in their face wouldn't be a reccomended action.

[Tywais]

When I had a position change last year there was a single form to be filled out by the university to cancel the old work permit as a new one had to be issued due to title and location change. They cancelled the WP and returned it to me to keep.

[Mario2008]

Q1: Yes, there is a fin and it can lead to problems in getting a new WP.

Q2. No, it does not have to be returned, but some labour offices have different opinions on that. As stated above, having the employer sending a letter to labour informing them of the termination of contract and per what date would be enough.

But it might be that as you were not fired, only had leave without pay, you are still employed by the company and it is a simple matter of the WP having expired. That still means a new WP, also because you will have a new function.

Do get a new non-B before you return to Thailand.

If he is still employed by the Company he had better look forward to paying tax on his non-earnings. Tax has to be paid on 50,000 baht if earned or not if you expect a second WP. Easier to have just 'lost' the work permit.

Losing a WP means yu need to file a police report and thus make a false statement about nothing.

That you are employed doesn't mean automatically mean that you are paid a salary, there is something as leave without pay. The tax requirements are not from the labour office, but from immigration.

[BrianCR]

Q1: Yes, there is a fin and it can lead to problems in getting a new WP.

Q2. No, it does not have to be returned, but some labour offices have different opinions on that. As stated above, having the employer sending a letter to labour informing them of the termination of contract and per what date would be enough.

But it might be that as you were not fired, only had leave without pay, you are still employed by the company and it is a simple matter of the WP having expired. That still means a new WP, also because you will have a new function.

Do get a new non-B before you return to Thailand.

If he is still employed by the Company he had better look forward to paying tax on his non-earnings. Tax has to be paid on 50,000 baht if earned or not if you expect a second WP. Easier to have just 'lost' the work permit. Oh and by the way the tax is not completely based on why you earn but what you are expected to earn - unless you don't need any more extensions in which case you can pay on what you actually did earn (doesn't apply to teachers)

Losing a WP means yu need to file a police report and thus make a false statement about nothing.

That you are employed doesn't mean automatically mean that you are paid a salary, there is something as leave without pay. The tax requirements are not from the labour office, but from immigration.

Take my word for it, they will not issue you a new visa or extend your old one unless you have paid tax at the required rate of salary (approx 50,000 x 12)on the visa previously held! And as for making a false report if, you don't have the old WP consider it lost!! Edited April 14, 2013 by BrianCR

[Mario2008]

Now you are talking about an extension of stay instead of a Work Permit.

He is not applying for an extension of stay right now, he first applies for a non-B visa and then extended after 60 days or more. As immigration can see he was out of the country for a long time, there is no reason why they should refuse.

[Dork]

Q1: Yes, there is a fin and it can lead to problems in getting a new WP.

Q2. No, it does not have to be returned, but some labour offices have different opinions on that. As stated above, having the employer sending a letter to labour informing them of the termination of contract and per what date would be enough.

But it might be that as you were not fired, only had leave without pay, you are still employed by the company and it is a simple matter of the WP having expired. That still means a new WP, also because you will have a new function.

Do get a new non-B before you return to Thailand.

If he is still employed by the Company he had better look forward to paying tax on his non-earnings. Tax has to be paid on 50,000 baht if earned or not if you expect a second WP. Easier to have just 'lost' the work permit. Oh and by the way the tax is not completely based on why you earn but what you are expected to earn - unless you don't need any more extensions in which case you can pay on what you actually did earn (doesn't apply to teachers)

Losing a WP means yu need to file a police report and thus make a false statement about nothing.

That you are employed doesn't mean automatically mean that you are paid a salary, there is something as leave without pay. The tax requirements are not from the labour office, but from immigration.

Take my word for it, they will not issue you a new visa or extend your old one unless you have paid tax at the required rate of salary (approx 50,000 x 12)on the visa previously held! And as for making a false report if, you don't have the old WP consider it lost!!

Was this years ago? Nowadays, even if you wanted to, this wouldn't work with the revenue department. How can a company make income tax deductions on salary that hasn't been paid? There is no way to account for that and will look suspicious to the RD because the income tax due on a salary of 50K/month is less than the corporate tax due on the same amount.