Twin Bomb Explosions Shatter Boston Marathon Finish Line

[LarryBird]

There is going to be a massive over reaction to this.

So far one of the few posts that has 100% facts.

RIP to those who lost their life and speedy recovery to the injured.

They got amputated...........

[Steely Dan]

A post asked what is the evidence? It is indeed thin but it is something and so far it appears to be a credible theory but so is just a lone wolf madman with no political agenda. I wouldn't even call this evidence but rather circumstantial clues that may or may not end up being relevant.

Also note at the FBI is in charge of the case, the U.S. federal government is indeed treating this as a terrorist attack rather than a less loaded crime. That could indeed be domestic or international terror.

Mr Barrett, who is now senior director at the Qatar International

Academy for Security Studies (QIASS), said: "At the moment it looks more

likely that it was a right-wing terrorist incident, rather than an al

Qaida attack because of the size of the devices."

He added: "This

happened on Patriots' Day, it is also the day Americans are supposed to

have their taxes in, and Boston is quite a symbolic city. These are all

little indicators."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rightwing-terror-attack-most-likely-to-blame-for-boston-outrage-says-counterterrorism-expert-8574608.html

Qatar International Academy for Security Studies eh? Without speculating on who the culprit may be, unlike the aforementioned group, how many terrorist attacks by right wing extremists can you think of? Let's face it, if you were playing the tables at Vegas that would be a long shot I suspect.

[mamypoko]

Despicable. The Boston Marathon is one of the great all-inclusive events anywhere.

Steady on. People in England and Northern Ireland have been blown to pieces whilst shopping or going to work. The event isn't the issue. The victims and their families are.

Respectfully, in the case of terrorism, special events, dates, locations, symbols…etc. are almost always highly significant. The aim of the attack is to do much more than kill. The aim is to cause fear – hence, the name. For this reason, bombs are often employed. While bombs do kill, they also look and sound “scary”. They explode without

warning. People begin to look at backpacks, luggage and piles of garbage with a sense of dread.

Were the terrorist to kill in private, out of the camera’s eye…we’d more likely call that type of attack assassination. The scope of fear is often much, much less.

The terrorist says to hide at home, fear the market and don’t go to the football game – you could die, or worse…you could be horribly maimed.

Mitigating the impact of an attack includes rebuilding a skyline, returning your children to school and as I’m sure we will see, packedstreets for the 2014 Boston Marathon.

//Americans respect and prize the British for their "stiff upper lip" attitude. Unfortunately, we're now having to learn what we once only quoted.

Edited April 16, 2013 by mamypoko

[SteeleJoe]

A post asked what is the evidence? It is indeed thin but it is something and so far it appears to be a credible theory but so is just a lone wolf madman with no political agenda. I wouldn't even call this evidence but rather circumstantial clues that may or may not end up being relevant.

Also note at the FBI is in charge of the case, the U.S. federal government is indeed treating this as a terrorist attack rather than a less loaded crime. That could indeed be domestic or international terror.

Mr Barrett, who is now senior director at the Qatar International

Academy for Security Studies (QIASS), said: "At the moment it looks more

likely that it was a right-wing terrorist incident, rather than an al

Qaida attack because of the size of the devices."

He added: "This

happened on Patriots' Day, it is also the day Americans are supposed to

have their taxes in, and Boston is quite a symbolic city. These are all

little indicators."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rightwing-terror-attack-most-likely-to-blame-for-boston-outrage-says-counterterrorism-expert-8574608.html

Qatar International Academy for Security Studies eh? Without speculating on who the culprit may be, unlike the aforementioned group, how many terrorist attacks by right wing extremists can you think of? Let's face it, if you were playing the tables at Vegas that would be a long shot I suspect.

"Richard Barrett, the former United Nations co-ordinator for the al-Qaida and Taliban monitoring team...who has served with MI5, MI6 and the British Foreign Service".

Do you even know what QIASS is?

Peter Bergen has spoken of the possibility as well. If you think he is laughable, then you perhaps need to learn a bit more about him too.

Edited April 16, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[GentlemanJim]

A post asked what is the evidence? It is indeed thin but it is something and so far it appears to be a credible theory but so is just a lone wolf madman with no political agenda. I wouldn't even call this evidence but rather circumstantial clues that may or may not end up being relevant.

Also note at the FBI is in charge of the case, the U.S. federal government is indeed treating this as a terrorist attack rather than a less loaded crime. That could indeed be domestic or international terror.

Mr Barrett, who is now senior director at the Qatar International

Academy for Security Studies (QIASS), said: "At the moment it looks more

likely that it was a right-wing terrorist incident, rather than an al

Qaida attack because of the size of the devices."

He added: "This

happened on Patriots' Day, it is also the day Americans are supposed to

have their taxes in, and Boston is quite a symbolic city. These are all

little indicators."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rightwing-terror-attack-most-likely-to-blame-for-boston-outrage-says-counterterrorism-expert-8574608.html

Qatar International Academy for Security Studies eh? Without speculating on who the culprit may be, unlike the aforementioned group, how many terrorist attacks by right wing extremists can you think of? Let's face it, if you were playing the tables at Vegas that would be a long shot I suspect.

You mock a little too quickly Steely. QIASS is a very well respected and incredibly well funded organization. They are at the cutting edge of security studies and their senior most Directors have been called by British courts as subject matter experts on many occasions. Although you may have only heard about Qatar in connection with world cup football, it is in fact the most progressive and independently wealthy of all the gulf states, they just don't blow their own trumpet. Whatever they do, they pay the best money to get the best experts from all over the world.

edited to add...what steeleJoe said !!

Edited April 16, 2013 by GentlemanJim

[Chicog]

Qatar International Academy for Security Studies eh? Without speculating on who the culprit may be, unlike the aforementioned group, how many terrorist attacks by right wing extremists can you think of? Let's face it, if you were playing the tables at Vegas that would be a long shot I suspect.

Perhaps it's more common than you know.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/terror-from-the-right

And an American think tank wrote this to the DHS in March:

In the last four years, we have seen a tremendous increase in the number of conspiracy-minded, antigovernment groups as well as in the number of domestic terrorist plots. As in the period before the Oklahoma City bombing, we now also are seeing ominous threats from those who believe that the government is poised to take their guns. Because of the looming dangers, we urge you to establish an interagency task force to assess the adequacy of the resources devoted to responding to the growing threat of non-Islamic domestic terrorism.

***

This latest count exceeds the high-water mark of the 1990s by more than 500. During that decade, the growth in the radical antigovernment movement was fueled in large part by anger over the passage of the Brady Bill in 1993 and the enactment of the assault weapons ban in 1994. Now that gun control is again being hotly debated, we are seeing a repeat of that anger, and it is likely to continue to swell the ranks of antigovernment groups.

***

Our data as well as that of independent researchers reflects that the country has seen an increase in right-wing domestic terrorism as the number of hate and antigovernment groups has increased in recent years.

[Steely Dan]

A post asked what is the evidence? It is indeed thin but it is something and so far it appears to be a credible theory but so is just a lone wolf madman with no political agenda. I wouldn't even call this evidence but rather circumstantial clues that may or may not end up being relevant.

Also note at the FBI is in charge of the case, the U.S. federal government is indeed treating this as a terrorist attack rather than a less loaded crime. That could indeed be domestic or international terror.

Mr Barrett, who is now senior director at the Qatar International

Academy for Security Studies (QIASS), said: "At the moment it looks more

likely that it was a right-wing terrorist incident, rather than an al

Qaida attack because of the size of the devices."

He added: "This

happened on Patriots' Day, it is also the day Americans are supposed to

have their taxes in, and Boston is quite a symbolic city. These are all

little indicators."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rightwing-terror-attack-most-likely-to-blame-for-boston-outrage-says-counterterrorism-expert-8574608.html

Qatar International Academy for Security Studies eh? Without speculating on who the culprit may be, unlike the aforementioned group, how many terrorist attacks by right wing extremists can you think of? Let's face it, if you were playing the tables at Vegas that would be a long shot I suspect.

You mock a little too quickly Steely. QIASS is a very well respected and incredibly well funded organization. They are at the cutting edge of security studies and their senior most Directors have been called by British courts as subject matter experts on many occasions. Although you may have only heard about Qatar in connection with world cup football, it is in fact the most progressive and independently wealthy of all the gulf states, they just don't blow their own trumpet. Whatever they do, they pay the best money to get the best experts from all over the world.

edited to add...what steeleJoe said !!

Well, without jumping to conclusions, let's just say that I do see an irony quoting a middle eastern based agency on a terrorist attack in the U.S. who conclude the attack most likely involved a domestic right wing extremist due to the 'size' of the bomb explosions. Whilst seeming to ignore reports of a dark skinned man with a backpack and foreign accent acting suspiciously, or indeed a Saudi national who was questioned and treated for injuries.

[bostonboy]

I lived in that area for a long time just blocks away, off Westland Avenue across from Fenway Park. My friends joked that Fenway Park was my second home.

It's unsettling to know you've stood many times on those same sidewalks that just hours ago were littered with injured people in what clearly must be a terrorist attack. Three dead now.

A number of runners kept going, running to the nearby hospitals to donate blood. These are athletes from throughout the world.

The marathon is always held on the official state holiday of Patriot's Day, which marks the first battle of the Revolution at nearby Lexington and Concord bridge.

The last I'd heard in emails to me (cell phone service is shut off for security reasons) the authorities were in the burb of Revere (yes, as in Paul Revere) swarming around a residence so I'm waiting to hear what if anything comes of that. The authorities are there in full force, all of 'em, so there should be some word on that soon.

Been following this since early this morning here, on TV and doing emails to many back home. I can hardly keep up.

I'm fully confident the rat bastards who did this will get their justice too.

i was actually there for 9/11

saw the 2nd plane go through with my own eyes

and i lived in NYC for 12 years, consider it my 2nd home

but i am more effected about yesterday even sitting across the continent in Vancouver because that is MY HOME

[chuckd]

All of the conspiracy theories are as nonsensical as trying to tie the date to a specific incident.

If the Boston Marathon had been run on 4/16 instead of 4/15 would there NOT have been an attack?

The culprits were after marathon runners and their fans and it was a relatively soft target.

[SteeleJoe]

Well, without jumping to conclusions, let's just say that I do see an irony quoting a middle eastern based agency on a terrorist attack in the U.S. who conclude the attack most likely involved a domestic right wing extremist due to the 'size' of the bomb explosions. Whilst seeming to ignore reports of a dark skinned man with a backpack and foreign accent acting suspiciously, or indeed a Saudi national who was questioned and treated for injuries.

1) Are you aware of any evidence that QAISS is less than objective due to their geographical base of operations?

2) Can you maybe imagine why a firm of it's type would want to be located here it is?

3) An ex-FBI agent named Ali Soufan is executive director - do you know who he is and the extremely important and prominent work he's done on the investigation of and combatting against Islamist extremism? He's considered by some the man who might have prevented 9/11. His book is, in my opinion and many who share my interest, a perquisite for the study of jihadists.

His colleague, Robert McFadden, another FBI veteran with decades of experience, is director. Are you aware of the major contributions he made in the same field?

How about Don Borelli? Also decades with the FBI, also stellar work against Islamist terror (among many other significant thngs investigated Oklahoma AND the Embassy bombings in Africa).

Martin Reardon? Decades with the FBI before, like McFadden and Borelli, joining Soufan's previous project. He was the FBI attaché to Qatar.

Daniel Freedman? Another director.

All of these guys I know from years of reading on Islamist extremism. Do you think these men who have done such work don't know what they are talking about? Or that they would dishonestly dismiss a credible danger to the country they served so well and conravene a cause they have devoted their whole careers to, because of where they were based?

Maybe. Or maybe they are just wrong. But I personally wouldn't't scoff at them and, with all due respect, unless you are a lot more qualified than you appear, I find you dismissing them to be the true irony.

[SteeleJoe]

Forgot:

I don't know that anyone "ignore(d) reports of a dark skinned man with a backpack and foreign accent acting suspiciously" or the Saudi national who was questioned and treated for injuries but I wouldn't blame them for giving either much credence. Do you know that at the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta there were witness reports of four Arabs that turned out to be false (as the bombing was done by...ahem...an American rightwing white dude). The Saudi? Well who knows but just because he was injured and questioned that doesn't mean anything beyond him being a witness. For all we know, QAISS - given the links between them and the FBI - has been told off the record that the Saudi isn't a likely suspect.

[rgs2001uk]

This isnt intended as an anti American post, but you have to love the irony.

The Blessed one in NK starts rabbitting on about missile testing, we are told the free world is under threat, whoosh biff bang, out of nowhere comes this.

Is there actually anyone in America who knows whats happening anywhere?

USS Cole, Tanzania, etc etc, take your eyes off the ball you miss the action.

[SteeleJoe]

This isnt intended as an anti American post, but you have to love the irony.

The Blessed one in NK starts rabbitting on about missile testing, we are told the free world is under threat, whoosh biff bang, out of nowhere comes this.

Is there actually anyone in America who knows whats happening anywhere?

USS Cole, Tanzania, etc etc, take your eyes off the ball you miss the action.

I don't understand your post, can you help?

Are you saying that in this instance and that of "USS Cole, Tanzania, etc etc" - not to mention any number of operations that DIDN'T happen in the last 10 years but had potential to happen or were in the process of being executed - there have been no Americans who have been knowledgeable about threats or competent in their efforts to prevent them?

And what does the fact that Kim Jong Un starts rabbiting on about "missile testing" (actually a lot kore than that - war) have to do with whether there is anyone in America who knows whats happening anywhere?

[Chicog]

All of the conspiracy theories are as nonsensical as trying to tie the date to a specific incident.

If the Boston Marathon had been run on 4/16 instead of 4/15 would there NOT have been an attack?

The culprits were after marathon runners and their fans and it was a relatively soft target.

So the Persian Liberation Front then?

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Potosi]

All of the conspiracy theories are as nonsensical as trying to tie the date to a specific incident.

If the Boston Marathon had been run on 4/16 instead of 4/15 would there NOT have been an attack?

The culprits were after marathon runners and their fans and it was a relatively soft target.

That's so cute. The right wing calls for mitigation, and patience until all facts are on the table. How unusual.

[SteeleJoe]

That's so cute. The right wing calls for mitigation, and patience until all facts are on the table. How unusual.

That is a bit of a contrast from the reaction to the last significant attack in the US...

Edited April 16, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Jingthing]

The Saudi student is not a suspect in any way now.

The FBI is talking like they are certain they will solve this case even though they have said they basically have no evidence. I hope they're right and that it doesn't take years.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[SteeleJoe]

I'm surprised to hear they said that; in any case I doubt solving the case will take years (the FBI and their colleagues - both foreign and domestic - generally do better than that) and not even one full day into the investigation, I'm willing to believe that they will move forward...

Apprehension of perpetrators might, though.

Edited April 16, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Jingthing]

I doubt solving the case will take years (the FBI and their colleagues - both foreign and domestic - generally do better than that). Apprehension of perpetrators might, though.

Think Atlanta Olympics. You never know.

[SteeleJoe]

I doubt solving the case will take years (the FBI and their colleagues - both foreign and domestic - generally do better than that). Apprehension of perpetrators might, though.

Think Atlanta Olympics. You never know.

No, of course you don't. (Which is why I only doubt it will take that long rather than feel certain that it won't.)

[SteeleJoe]

The FBI is talking like they are certain they will solve this case even though they have said they basically have no evidence.

I can't find anything like this but I don't really know where to look - can you tell me where you saw or heard that?

[SeaVisionBurma]

The FBI is talking like they are certain they will solve this case even though they have said they basically have no evidence.

I can't find anything like this but I don't really know where to look - can you tell me where you saw or heard that?

I've seen interviews with the FBI this evening on various news channels where they said pretty much what JT has posted.

[partington]

The FBI is talking like they are certain they will solve this case even though they have said they basically have no evidence.

I can't find anything like this but I don't really know where to look - can you tell me where you saw or heard that?

You can also read a fairly complete account of what was said at the press conference by spokesmen for the police department and the FBI here. (It's long and contains details of casualties and statements from medical facility spokesmen also.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-news-blog/2013/apr/16/boston-marathon-explosions-hunt-begins-for-perperators-live-updates

[SteeleJoe]

The FBI is talking like they are certain they will solve this case even though they have said they basically have no evidence.

I can't find anything like this but I don't really know where to look - can you tell me where you saw or heard that?

I've seen interviews with the FBI this evening on various news channels where they said pretty much what JT has posted.

That they basically have no evidence? I haven't read that and, as I said, it surprises me. Bomb debris evidence, as is witness accounts - they have that at the very least.

[SeaVisionBurma]

The FBI is talking like they are certain they will solve this case even though they have said they basically have no evidence.

I can't find anything like this but I don't really know where to look - can you tell me where you saw or heard that?

I've seen interviews with the FBI this evening on various news channels where they said pretty much what JT has posted.

That they basically have no evidence? I haven't read that and, as I said, it surprises me. Bomb debris evidence, as is witness accounts - they have that at the very least.

No - I think they said they basically didn't have any leads at this point in time, but they were confident of getting a result. I agree with you that there is plenty of evidence, and to be honest at this early stage (less than 24 hours since the blasts) - the interview they gave was carefully prepared to project confidence while admitting they didn't have any solid leads at this time. Can't recall it word for word, but that is pretty much how it came across.

[SteeleJoe]

No - I think they said they basically didn't have any leads at this point in time, but they were confident of getting a result. I agree with you that there is plenty of evidence, and to be honest at this early stage (less than 24 hours since the blasts) - the interview they gave was carefully prepared to project confidence while admitting they didn't have any solid leads at this time. Can't recall it word for word, but that is pretty much how it came across.

Thanks. That's rather different from 'We basically have no evidence".

And of course you are correct; at this point they are NOT going to reveal what they do know but also need to manage expectations and not set themselves up for criticism. And of course they will intend to project confidence (for tactical reasons, let alone public relations and politics) regardless of what they do or don't know at this early stage.

[Publicus]

All of the conspiracy theories are as nonsensical as trying to tie the date to a specific incident.

If the Boston Marathon had been run on 4/16 instead of 4/15 would there NOT have been an attack?

The culprits were after marathon runners and their fans and it was a relatively soft target.

Conspiracy theories are nonsense by definition.

For the record, the Battle of Lexington and Concord - at Concord Bridge - which was the first standup military engagement of the Revolution, occurred on April 19th. However, for some 30 years now Massachusetts has celebrated its Patriot's Day holiday on the Monday of the week of the 19th because it provides a three-day holiday weekend. The Boston Athletic Association, which organizes the Marathon, is comprised exclusively of Bostonians so it naturally rescheduled the Marathon to the Monday so it could continue to be the centerpiece of the holiday festivities.

In short the dates are secondary to the event. I doubt foreign terrorists would have any notion of the dates - September 11 per se had been of no historical consequence in the United States. .I'd also wonder if foreign terrorists would pay attention to the dates if the dates were known to them. I also doubt a domestic terrorist would care about exact dates, i.e., setting off bombs on the normal business day of Thursday the 19th instead of hitting the very soft Monday target that the Marathon is.

The nation might be mindful of the Massachusetts-only holiday, and certainly very well knows the event, but keenly knows the focus is on the event itself as a rich high profile target.

[Gweiloman]

I'm rather surprised that there has not been any references to an earlier thread on TV about Thailand being a top terrorist targeted country? Unless, these has been removed by the moderators? I would like to post a comment on the aforementioned thread but can't seem to find it. Can anyone direct me to it?

[lannarebirth]

I'm rather surprised that there has not been any references to an earlier thread on TV about Thailand being a top terrorist targeted country? Unless, these has been removed by the moderators? I would like to post a comment on the aforementioned thread but can't seem to find it. Can anyone direct me to it?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/630816-f-b-i-terrorism-ranking-a-misunderstanding/

[folium]

A post asked what is the evidence? It is indeed thin but it is something and so far it appears to be a credible theory but so is just a lone wolf madman with no political agenda. I wouldn't even call this evidence but rather circumstantial clues that may or may not end up being relevant.

Also note at the FBI is in charge of the case, the U.S. federal government is indeed treating this as a terrorist attack rather than a less loaded crime. That could indeed be domestic or international terror.

Mr Barrett, who is now senior director at the Qatar International

Academy for Security Studies (QIASS), said: "At the moment it looks more

likely that it was a right-wing terrorist incident, rather than an al

Qaida attack because of the size of the devices."

He added: "This

happened on Patriots' Day, it is also the day Americans are supposed to

have their taxes in, and Boston is quite a symbolic city. These are all

little indicators."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rightwing-terror-attack-most-likely-to-blame-for-boston-outrage-says-counterterrorism-expert-8574608.html

Qatar International Academy for Security Studies eh? Without speculating on who the culprit may be, unlike the aforementioned group, how many terrorist attacks by right wing extremists can you think of? Let's face it, if you were playing the tables at Vegas that would be a long shot I suspect.

First you make a fool of yourself by slating the QIASS due to the fact that it has the temerity to be located in a Muslim country...

then just to complete the humiliation you come out with one of your immortal lines:

"how many terrorist attacks by right wing extremists can you think of? Let's face it, if you were playing the tables at Vegas that would be a long shot I suspect."

I seem to have answered this very question of yours before on more than one occasion, but just to underline the fact that you need to stay away from tables in Vegas or any casino for that matter if this is your best grasp of stats/probability...

Where do we start?

Forgetting right wing extremist mass murders/terrorist acts of the 1930's and 1940's in Italy, Spain and perhaps you may recollect a few in Germany (eg Kristallnacht..a copybook example of terrorism, but I suppose only 100 murders doesn't really count ).

Just in case that's all too historical for you let's bring right-wing terrorism more up to date...

Bologna. Italy 1980; 84 dead

Munich, Germany 1980; 15 dead

Posse Comitatus, USA 1983; 3 dead

Oklahoma City, USA 1995; 168 dead

Eric Rudolph, USA 1996-98: 2 dead

David Copeland, London 1999: 3 dead

NSU murders in Germany 2000-2006: 6 dead

CasaPound killings, Italy 2011: 2 dead

Anders Brievik, Norway 2011: 76 dead

But heck that's "only" 359 people killed by right wing extremists.....no wonder there are are not too many poor casino operators in Vegas!!