Is There A Black Market For Stolen Passports?

[ChristianPFC]

On Saturday afternoon (between 3 and 7 pm in Silom and Surawong area), my passport (+ work permit + 1000 Baht*) was stolen during the Songkran festival. Yesterday, I reported the loss to Bangrak Police Station.

I wonder if a stolen passport has any monetary value. If yes, how much would it be and where are stolen passports traded? I once read somewhere [citation needed] that a drunken Farang who ran out of money thought about selling his passport.

I know about the shops for fake IDs on Khao San road, is there a similar place where you can buy genuine passports that were stolen (or their owner died or any other reason). I imagine a rummage table with passports, and one of them is mine!

I asked a fortuneteller at Wat Hua Lampong (there is one who speaks good English) if he can help me. He first advised me to go to the police or lost property office, but when I pressed him for his help, he offered his services for 300 Baht. He had a price list in Thai with services from 100 to 1000 Baht. (I asked a Thai friend before I went there, he said he had used fortune tellers at rates from 30 to 50 Baht). I don't believe in fortune telling, but for little money (definitely not 300 Baht) I would try it. The fortune teller proceeded that he can tell my future, about my job and my girlfriend for 500 Baht, or find my passport for 300 Baht. He would need my date of birth. I told him I will try police and lost property office. Nonetheless, I am not adverse to going to another fortune teller (but not more than 100 Baht). I imagine him coming up with a phone number or showing me a spot on a map where the thief threw my passport away and where it still is.

(Thinking of it: if he can tell my future, why can't he tell my past, i.e. tell me my date of birth instead of me telling him my date of birth? Furthermore, if he could tell the present, he would know that I am gay and therefore will never have a girlfriend.)

I will wait some more days (maybe the passport ends up with the police or lost property office) and then go to my embassy (Germany) to get a replacement.

Stolen wallet would have been a easier and cheaper option (about 4000 Baht and a bank card that can easily be replaced and my German National Identity card that I won't need soon, anyway it expired in 2016).

* I always take my passport with me and I have 1000 Baht in it and it's in a different pocket than my wallet. If my wallet is stolen, I would not be left without any money. This can be taken as a general advice, on holiday as well as in your home country: keep money in two different places in your clothes when you go out.

Linguistical question: how do Thais distinguish between lost and stolen? I clearly stated ขโมย (kamoy = thief), but they spoke about หาย (haay = lost). I had a friend with me to translate at the police station, I could understand part of his conversation with the police officer.

Edited April 16, 2013 by ChristianPFC

[soi41]

Didn't the fortuneteller tell you: Be a good boy now, and take your medication !!

[ChristianPFC]

I am known for my sense of humor on other forums, but the topic above is no joke.

I did some search on the internet and came up with:

One 24-year-old French tourist said he was offered $240 by a clean-cut Iranian man in his 30s staying at the same guesthouse he was at on Bangkok's Khao San Road—the popular backpacker district that police say is a major source of black market passports.

"Some Westerners will sell their passports for $500 to get quick cash, and then they'll say it was stolen, so it's hard to crack down," immigration policeman Chote said.

The passport is then sold to an alterer, who will change either the photo, the page with biographical data or the entire cover of the book. What counts are the visas inside.

Edited April 16, 2013 by PoorSucker
Links to other forums removed as per forum rules.

[fredob43]

I am known for my sense of humor on other forums, but the topic above is no joke.

I did some search on the internet and came up with:

One 24-year-old French tourist said he was offered $240 by a clean-cut Iranian man in his 30s staying at the same guesthouse he was at on Bangkok's Khao San Road—the popular backpacker district that police say is a major source of black market passports.

"Some Westerners will sell their passports for $500 to get quick cash, and then they'll say it was stolen, so it's hard to crack down," immigration policeman Chote said.

The passport is then sold to an alterer, who will change either the photo, the page with biographical data or the entire cover of the book. What counts are the visas inside.

I know you are supposed to keep your passport with you all the time but if you do it's even money it'll be a gonner as you have found out. Keep it locked away out of sight, If you must take a copy.

A little story, I was sitting in a bar some time ago in a popular beach resort's just outside BKK when I noticed a lady of the night hand over a foreign passport to a Thai chap that was supposed to be looking after some local toilet's. Did I see right I said to a farang man sitting next to me, reply yep go's on all the time the police have been informed but have done nothing about it, if you hang about you'll see more of the same later.

What she got I don't know as monies at the time of hand over didn't happen, more than likely go's back at a later date for her %.

Hope you sort your problem out but once you have please please never carry it with you it's more agro than it's worth.

Edited April 16, 2013 by fredob43

[el jefe]

I have no idea about German passports or the cost of stolen passports in thailand, but was told by the US embassy a few years ago that stolen US passports go for $1,000 in Latin America. Selling a valid passport and reporting it as stolen is a common way to make a few hundred dollars.

[impulse]

From the OP:

"I will wait some more days (maybe the passport ends up with the police or lost property office) and then go to my embassy (Germany) to get a replacement."

I'd certainly feel rather badly if a guy that looked a little like me used my passport to gain access and bomb an airplane, or for some other nefarious purpose while I was waiting to see if it showed up in the lost and found. For the small amount it will cost to get a replacement, I think the responsible thing to do is to report it to your embassy as soon as you know it's missing.

[lopburi3]

Flame removed and off-topic post removed.

[evadgib]

Technically any passport that has fallen into the hands of a 3rd party, even if only for a few mins, should be replaced due to the liklihood of cloning/ID theft. Failure to do so could result in huge bills several weeks/months down the line...

[manarak]

Yes, stolen passports have a value of approx 200 to 250 USD. Typical resale value is 500 USD to 1000 USD.

It's worth more if the passport is not biometric, still has some years of validity and if of a "first world" country (i.e. without visa requirement for most countries).

Edited April 16, 2013 by manarak

[tolsti]

Just goes to show that you can't fix stupid. It's Songkran and he is carrying his original passport and work permit???

Come on folks!!!

[BOBBYTIN]

Yes, stolen passports have a value of approx 200 to 250 USD. Typical resale value is 500 USD to 1000 USD.

It's worth more if the passport is not biometric, still has some years of validity and if of a "first world" country (i.e. without visa requirement for most countries).

khao san road,there are people thre ask to buy your passport and then report it stolen,a lot of backpackers do it.

[lemonjelly]

get a written police report and go to your embassy NOW

[lopburi3]

Flame removed.

[ChristianPFC]

Just goes to show that you can't fix stupid. It's Songkran and he is carrying his original passport and work permit???

Come on folks!!!

That's a different subject (to carry or not to carry your passport with you all the time) that has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere.

[sunny and hot]

Yes, stolen passports have a value of approx 200 to 250 USD. Typical resale value is 500 USD to 1000 USD.

It's worth more if the passport is not biometric, still has some years of validity and if of a "first world" country (i.e. without visa requirement for most countries).

Not worth it if you need another one and have to fly home- you wont even break even.

[vanillalatte]

Christian!I do not want to give you false hopes.One place to check is....Post Office Department of undelivered letters..I have found there my lost passport.But it was some time ago and...in another country.Thieves were happy with my cash,passports they drop into mail box without envelope or any address.I saw there may be 20 of them.

I will send you pm with another idea.

[tboxcar]

I have been in some countries in the world where you had to weigh the cost of carrying your passport and getting pick-pocketed or to leave in in your dodgy hotel room without a safe and risk the chance of a break in, all depends where you are at, and you must weigh the risk.

[angsta]

I have been in some countries in the world where you had to weigh the cost of carrying your passport and getting pick-pocketed or to leave in in your dodgy hotel room without a safe and risk the chance of a break in, all depends where you are at, and you must weigh the risk.

As have I.

However the OP lost his WP as well which would suggest he lives in Thailand and therefore he should really know better. Songkran <deleted>?

[NancyL]

He should check with his Embassy to see if it's been turned in there.

[lopburi3]

Nonsensical post removed.

[phuketrichard]

Yes, stolen passports have a value of approx 200 to 250 USD. Typical resale value is 500 USD to 1000 USD.

It's worth more if the passport is not biometric, still has some years of validity and if of a "first world" country (i.e. without visa requirement for most countries).

that;'s a real low ball figure!!

A good clean US or main European country passport will sell for $4-6,000 in the market. I know some people have paid more even.

[vanillalatte]

PhuketRichard! What you say is pure BS.Have you sold or bought any?

[ChristianPFC]

However the OP lost his WP as well which would suggest he lives in Thailand and therefore he should really know better. Songkran <deleted>?

I did not lose my passport and WP, it was stolen! I live and work in Thailand. I had plans to travel to Europe in 4 weeks, no flights booked yet, I have to postpone it for 2 or 3 months.

Yesterday night, I went to Khao San Road and asked all stalls with false documents and some tailors and tuk-tuk driver where I can buy a genuine passport. The stalls with false documents do not have passports "copy" on offer and most common advice given was to report my passport stolen and go to my embassy. Only two were able to provide further information about genuine passports, quickly a number of 100.000 Baht was quoted in both cases, but I didn't bite. There is no rummage table with genuine passports (lost or stolen or owner died)!

I now have an appointment with the German embassy to apply for a new one.

I informed my embassy about the loss and will check post office as well.

Edited April 18, 2013 by ChristianPFC

[angsta]

Yes, stolen passports have a value of approx 200 to 250 USD. Typical resale value is 500 USD to 1000 USD.

It's worth more if the passport is not biometric, still has some years of validity and if of a "first world" country (i.e. without visa requirement for most countries).

that;'s a real low ball figure!!

A good clean US or main European country passport will sell for $4-6,000 in the market. I know some people have paid more even.

If this is the case then I have a relatively new UK passport for sale $5,000 ono. I can probably stretch to a WP in a month or so for an extra $500. Library cards and club membership cards price TBC.

PM Me.

OP you had your passport and WP in your possession during Songkran for what reason exactly? Please elaborate.

[phuketrichard]

You will need make ur own contacts on the dark side

wp makes no dif

[Mario2008]

You will need to file a police report, the embassy will ant that and immigration will also want to see a copy of the police report.

[angsta]

The dark side, Isn't that near Pattaya? There's a 15% finders fee if you can hook me up.

Maybe I can procure some more from the KSR. $5,000 a passport? I'll see if my mother wants hers.

[keestha]

Down and out westerners selling their passport isn't exactly a new thing. When I was doing the Asian hippy trail in the seventies, French fellow travelers told me French backpackers going into the embassy to report a stolen passport only resulted in the embassy official saying "You have sold it. Buy it back", without even looking at the person.

[ChristianPFC]

OP you had your passport and WP in your possession during Songkran for what reason exactly? Please elaborate.

The Thai law requires me to carry my passport with me all the time!

For all those who suggest reporting the loss to the police: I did so already (second sentence in my opening post).

Yesterday, I asked some Thai people in my building about fortune teller, they all agreed that a fortune teller will not be able to help me to find my stolen passport. (If you think I am crazy believing in fortune tellers: I am not. I am a scientist, and as such one I do not believe, I know or don't know. The correct version is: I cannot comment on fortune telling, as I never used it. If someone claims he can see where my passport is, I can try to verfiy or falsify this information, then I know if he is right or wrong.)

Edited April 19, 2013 by ChristianPFC

[ChristianPFC]

Went to my embassy on Thursday to pick up the passport (no queue, less than 10 minutes total), and to Immigration on Friday.
There I had to wait a total of 5 hours (including one hour lunch break)
on two counters: K2 and N2. K2 is to report lost passport (didn't know
this, but reporting over a month after the theft didn't seem to be a
problem, in fact, they didn't ask when the passport was lost). They kept
originals of police report and letter from embassy at K2, and the
copies of my old passport I brought. Then I proceeded to N2, where
copies of my old passport were required again. I told the officer that I
gave them to K2, he went there to pick them up. In the meantime, I
tried to count the stamps on his desk, between 36 and 39 (they were not
in order, so I lost track). 9 of them for date alone. When I thought of
counting the lying and the standing separately, the officer came back.
The stamps occupy two pages in my passport.

Direct
expenses were 6500 for new passport (including express surcharge, that
is for 2-3 weeks, normally it takes 5-6 weeks!), indirect between 500
and 1000 Baht for travelling and total time spend about 15 to 20 hours.

Now only work permit left.