Renewing British Passport.....can I Use Existing One?

[lovelaos]

I am renewing my British passport due to it being full. My current passport doesn't expire for a few more years and there is enough space for me to make a trip to Thailand and back to Laos.

I was just wondering if my existing passport will be cancelled automatically whilst my application is being processed or can I still use my existing passport until the new one arrives?

I have sent emails to the new British Embassy in Laos, but they are obviously way too busy to return emails from pesky British expats living in Laos (approximately 100 people)

[Morden]

As I remember from when I renewed mine for the same reason, the old passport is left valid for long enough for you to receive the new one. I think that the government website, messy though it is, mentions this somewhere.

[NBD]

Yes you can do this. I did exactly the same thing a couple of years ago. I believe your passport is technically still valid up until it expires or you surrendder or destroy it.

If the embassy there is anything like the British embassy here they're completely useless and best avoided.

[Morden]

The British embassy (Consulate) isn't involved in the renewal of passports. The application is sent to Hong Kong. There is a plan to move the process to to Britain so keep up to date with what's going on.

I've gone to the gov.uk website and begun the enquiry process for you. Follow the link below and see what you need to do. Applicants for renewal in Thailand don't need to send their old passport with the application and that might also apply if you are in Laos. The reason is that the passport is your ID in Thailand.

Note the warning to make sure that your application documents are complete.

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports/y/laos/renewing_new/adult

[lovelaos]

Thanks for the quick responses. So the existing passport isn't cancelled even when the new one is received? I find this hard to believe but would be interested to find out if this is the case.

[lovelaos]

The British embassy (Consulate) isn't involved in the renewal of passports. The application is sent to Hong Kong. There is a plan to move the process to to Britain so keep up to date with what's going on.

I've gone to the gov.uk website and begun the enquiry process for you. Follow the link below and see what you need to do. Applicants for renewal in Thailand don't need to send their old passport with the application and that might also apply if you are in Laos. The reason is that the passport is your ID in Thailand.

Note the warning to make sure that your application documents are complete.

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports/y/laos/renewing_new/adult

Thanks for the post but I know the procedure and have sent the application already (2 weeks ago)

You are quite right to say the Consulate aren't involved in the issue of passports, however, they should answer basic emails regarding passport renewals from British citizens living in Laos. Especially when they don't answer these questions on their website.

[Upnotover]

Thanks for the quick responses. So the existing passport isn't cancelled even when the new one is received? I find this hard to believe but would be interested to find out if this is the case.

I think the existing passport is cancelled on application. Any "normal" passport application requires the existing one to be submitted with the application. Here, and maybe elsewhere, we get to keep hold of the existing passport due to local regulations, but I suspect it is not actually valid for travel. The UK website says "Keep your existing passport for security and ID purposes - don’t send it with your application." Nothing about travel.

[Morden]

Again from memory and for an application sent from Thailand, the old passport is cancelled after a given period that's long enough for you to receive the new one and cut the corner of the old one. Once you get the new one, cut the corner of the old one but keep the passport.

In Thailand, you then go to Immigration and have the visa transferred to the new passport. You local Immigration people in Laos will tell you what needs to be done there.

[Morden]

Thanks for the quick responses. So the existing passport isn't cancelled even when the new one is received? I find this hard to believe but would be interested to find out if this is the case.

I think the existing passport is cancelled on application. Any "normal" passport application requires the existing one to be submitted with the application. Here, and maybe elsewhere, we get to keep hold of the existing passport due to local regulations, but I suspect it is not actually valid for travel. The UK website says "Keep your existing passport for security and ID purposes - don’t send it with your application." Nothing about travel.

No. For expats. in Thailand, you keep the old passport and it remains valid until some time after the new one is sent to you. It's probably the same for Laos.

The old one is valid for travel but a long trip might involve the risk that it's cancelled before you get home to pick up the new one at DHL. You can get an emergency travel document to avoid that possibility.

[lovelaos]

Thanks for the quick responses. So the existing passport isn't cancelled even when the new one is received? I find this hard to believe but would be interested to find out if this is the case.

I think the existing passport is cancelled on application. Any "normal" passport application requires the existing one to be submitted with the application. Here, and maybe elsewhere, we get to keep hold of the existing passport due to local regulations, but I suspect it is not actually valid for travel. The UK website says "Keep your existing passport for security and ID purposes - don’t send it with your application." Nothing about travel.

This is how I read it. The rules for Thailand are the same for Laos regarding not having to send your old passport.

Again from memory and for an application sent from Thailand, the old passport is cancelled after a given period that's long enough for you to receive the new one and cut the corner of the old one. Once you get the new one, cut the corner of the old one but keep the passport.

In Thailand, you then go to Immigration and have the visa transferred to the new passport. You local Immigration people in Laos will tell you what needs to be done there.

I would love to know when the 'given period' is, as I need to use my current passport whilst my new one is being processed. Surely they don't cancel it electronically until they have confirmation I have received my new passport????

[chiang mai]

If renewing in the UK. the old passport is cancelled when the new one is issued, any time remaining on the old passport is added to the expiry date of the new passport, over nine months.

Edited April 22, 2013 by chiang mai

[lovelaos]

Wouldn't it be great if the British Embassy actually did their job and replied to their emails.

If renewing in the UK. the old passport is cancelled when the new one is issued, any time remaining on the old passport is added to the expiry date of the new passport, over nine months.

I am applying from Laos.

So I would appreciate any conformation if anybody has used their old passport whilst their new passport is being processed or has been processed.

In my case, I will be needing to use my passport right around the same time as my new passport is being sent back to me in Laos. I don't think they will cancel the old one but I would like to make sure I am not stuck in Thailand without a valid passport (especially when reading some of the horror stories about Thai immigration)

[lovelaos]

As I remember from when I renewed mine for the same reason, the old passport is left valid for long enough for you to receive the new one. I think that the government website, messy though it is, mentions this somewhere.

I cannot find this anywhere on the website.

[Morden]

I think it would be risky to use your old passport while the new one is being processed.

You wrote that you applied two weeks ago. Processing can take less then the four weeks indicated on the website so you may get the new one before your travel.

[Sophon]

This information is quoted in (several) earlier threads about renewing a British passport from Thailand:

Specific requirements from Thailand

ORIGINAL PASSPORT: Thailand is an exception to the main guidance given on our primary website. It is not advised to be without your original passport in Thailand and we recognise this. You may therefore submit a clear photocopy of your passport (just the page with your personal details and photograph). Please note that the passport being renewed will be electronically cancelled and is therefore not valid for use as a travel document from the moment you submit your application. On receipt of your new passport, you must physically cancel your old passport by cutting the corners of the photo page and the front and back covers. Failure to do so may leave your replaced passport open to abuse. Alternatively, you should visit the British Embassy in Bangkok to have your replaced passport physically cancelled. Please be aware when transferring your visas the Immigration Bureau may request a letter from the British Embassy.

The information is apparently from this website http://ukinhongkong.fco.gov.uk, but it seems that the information on that website has now been migrated to www.gov.uk but not including this particular warning.

For more information see for instance these old threads:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/615766-renewal-of-uk-passport-from-thailand/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/574948-passport-renewal

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/552259-trying-to-help-with-friends-passport

Sophon

[theoldgit]

The website used to say that the passport was electronically cancelled when the application was received in HKG, the same process as a lost or stolen passport.

The new "improved" website now just says the the passport should be retained for ID and security purposes, I doubt very much if you can travel on it.

I suspect those who apply from Thailand will be in the same position as those who have to send their original passports to HKG, or indeed those in the UK who have to send their passports when they apply for a new one, that they cannot use the passport for international travel.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[lovelaos]

So it seems they electronically cancel the old passport when the application is received in HKG. How very thoughtful of them.

Isn't it great being a British expatriate?

Nearly every other civilized nation, when their passports are full, simply visit their embassy and get a new passport (in many cases free of charge)

The Brits don't even answer their bloody emails

Edited April 22, 2013 by lovelaos

[gmac]

The website used to say that the passport was electronically cancelled when the application was received in HKG, the same process as a lost or stolen passport.

The new "improved" website now just says the the passport should be retained for ID and security purposes, I doubt very much if you can travel on it.

I suspect those who apply from Thailand will be in the same position as those who have to send their original passports to HKG, or indeed those in the UK who have to send their passports when they apply for a new one, that they cannot use the passport for international travel.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I'm pretty sure that when I renewed mine back in January there was some reference in the uk gov website to the cancellation of the old passport which, from memory, was when the payment for the new passport was taken. How you would know when that is if you sent a bank draft I have no idea! Searching again now I can see no reference to it so I assume they have improved the service by muddying the waters, and making it necessary to contact them by phone at some exorbitant rate to find the answer as they surely will not reply to an e-mail.

[evadgib]

@Lovelaos #17

So it seems they electronically cancel the old passport when the application is received in HKG. How very thoughtful of them.

Passports are cancelled when new ones are issued. Holders in Thailand are required to clip the corners on their old passports when the new ones arrive.

Nearly every other civilized nation, when their passports are full, simply visit their embassy and get a new passport.

Sitting at home beats a 1000 mile round trip.

and get a new passport (in many cases free of charge)

If you were a wooden puppet your nose would've hit the screen!

[Morden]

I can't find the reference to the delayed cancellation of the previous passport either.

It wouldn't make sense for the old passport to be cancelled when the new application is processed, particularly as the need for a passport in Thailand, and presumably Laos, for ID purposes is acknowledged.

[theoldgit]

As I recall the old information made it clear the old passport was to satisfy the Thai requirement to carry a passport and not for international travel.

As I said earlier, in every other location in the world, including the UK, the passport ceases to be valid as a travel document as soon as the application to renew is made.

Unfortunately since the FCO have changed their website nobody really knows the answer, they have removed the clear guidance and left the issue open to speculation.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[lovelaos]

As I recall the old information made it clear the old passport was to satisfy the Thai requirement to carry a passport and not for international travel.

As I said earlier, in every other location in the world, including the UK, the passport ceases to be valid as a travel document as soon as the application to renew is made.

Unfortunately since the FCO have changed their website nobody really knows the answer, they have removed the clear guidance and left the issue open to speculation.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Absolutely. I have emailed them and still no reply. No reply from British consulate in Laos or Thailand. Hong Kong Embassy kindly sent an automated reply with some useless links. I'm just happy I no longer pay U.K taxes for these buffoons to sit around scratching their nuts.

[lovelaos]

@evadgib post #19

1, So you are saying that the passport will not be cancelled until I physically cut the corners?

2, I don't understand the 1000 mile trip comment.

3, Just from conversations with my colleagues here from America, France, Belgium, Sweden, Canada all free renewal passports or extra pages added to existing passports.

[Upnotover]

3, Just from conversations with my colleagues here from America, France, Belgium, Sweden, Canada all free renewal passports or extra pages added to existing passports.

I think for this point your colleagues have been misinformed, at least the American ones (although admittedly they do get some service from their Bangkok embassy, unlike us Brits) ;

• Adult Passport Renewal: $110

• Minor Passport (under 16 years old): $105

• First Adult Passport: $135

• Replacement for Lost/Stolen Passport: $135

• Additional Passport Pages: $82

[chiang mai]

In practise, if the passport is cancelled electronically you should not have a problem continuing to use it for travel to other countries, but if you try use it to enter the UK it will be flagged on the Immigration computer systems and it will be siezed and destroyed,

[Arkady]

Thanks for the quick responses. So the existing passport isn't cancelled even when the new one is received? I find this hard to believe but would be interested to find out if this is the case.

Yes, the existing passport is cancelled as soon your application is received in Hong Kong.

[lovelaos]

In practise, if the passport is cancelled electronically you should not have a problem continuing to use it for travel to other countries, but if you try use it to enter the UK it will be flagged on the Immigration computer systems and it will be siezed and destroyed,

This is what I am thinking also, I will be travelling only to Thailand and back. The border I will be using is, shall we say, very relaxed.

[Baerboxer]

In practise, if the passport is cancelled electronically you should not have a problem continuing to use it for travel to other countries, but if you try use it to enter the UK it will be flagged on the Immigration computer systems and it will be siezed and destroyed,

This is what I am thinking also, I will be travelling only to Thailand and back. The border I will be using is, shall we say, very relaxed.

Normally you have to submit your old passport when applying for a new one. Dispensation is given for those living in Thailand because of the Thai requirement that foreigners should carry their passport at all times, or produce it if requested.

If you live in Laos, the first thing you need to check is if the same dispensation applies. If not, you must send your passport or your application will be rejected and you will loose the fee.

If the dispensation applies to applicants living in Laos, then you can apply with a copy of your passport only. You must supply an uptodate photograph that has been signed by someone suitably qualified to confirm its you.

The guidance notes say that your old passport will be cancelled once the application is received and actioned. So you cannot use it to travel - it has been cancelled. You can take a chance if you want, but the risk will be yours.

I applied for a new passport middle last year as all pages full on my existing passport, which still had several years before expiry. From when I sent the application to receipt of new passport was exactly 2 weeks.

The UK, as far as I can remember, as never used the " additional extra pages option" for full passports with future expiry dates. The cost of a new passport for expats is considerably higher than if you apply in the UK, even before adding the courier costs. But, that's how it is and no doubt will be.

There is an expectation that people can think and plan these things in advance. But, if you have an urgent need to travel whilst waiting the arrival of the new passport, you can get an emergency travel document from the embassy.

[evadgib]

@evadgib post #19

1, So you are saying that the passport will not be cancelled until I physically cut the corners?

2, I don't understand the 1000 mile trip comment.

3, Just from conversations with my colleagues here from America, France, Belgium, Sweden, Canada all free renewal passports or extra pages added to existing passports.

1. No! Cutting the corners prevents you experiencing any problems later.

2. Typical distance from home to the Embassy to apply in person.

3. I am not aware of any Embassy that dispenses free passports or pages, except perhaps for Brits born on or before 01 Sep 1929.

From your posts it seems you haven't grasped the difference between the Home Office & the FCO. The Identity and Passport Service (IPS) comes under the former which is why the latter can only direct enquirers to the (as yet unready) web links. It's a bit like calling London Fire & Rescue Service to report a burgulary instead of calling the Met:)

Edited April 22, 2013 by evadgib

[Rinrada]

Although still over a year to run on our UK/EU passports I sent then off about 10 days ago and noticed that my cheque for 145 quid was cashed on Friday and old (wife also ) arrived on Saturday morning with corners cut so hopefully the new ones in post.

PP office say that they will add 9 months on if surrendered earlier than said time and now with IRIS gone from immigration recon time for new "chipped edition" for future jollies.

Anything to make travel easier.(now on no 9)