Dog Suffering The Worst I Have Seen

[candypants]

Puzzled as to why OP cannot do it himself - chloroform over an hour or two or diethyl ester plus a lethal injection will do the same job as at the vet's.

perhaps this may be common knowledge to you, but many of us do not have the wherewithal to kill a man or dog on hand

[katana]

The most memorable thing on my first visit to Thailand many years ago was the recall of a suffering dog.

It was a young male so tormented by fleas that it had scratched itself virtually hair-less. It occupied it's space beside the small outside bars at the beginning of Naklua Road, Pattaya on the right out of town.

The thing was in scratching in constant agony. On the second day I decided to act and enquired from the bar tottie about a nearby vet to take it to. They assumed I was a looney and talked of cost.

It needed drinks all-round x2 to get them on my side Eventually a girlie or two arrived with a lead and bravely put it around the dog's neck and we all went (five of us believe) to an "animal doctor," not far away actually.

One injection and the mutt was on the way to recovery. I saw it next day and the improvement was both astounding and rewarding.

Two thousand baht well spent.

Why can many Thai be so indifferent to a dumb creatures suffering whilst many of us have a soft heart?

Finances or an inabilty to appreciate suffering beyond the self?

Well done on that.

PS Sounds more like mange than fleas though doesn't it?

[manarak]

Puzzled as to why OP cannot do it himself - chloroform over an hour or two or diethyl ester plus a lethal injection will do the same job as at the vet's.

perhaps this may be common knowledge to you, but many of us do not have the wherewithal to kill a man or dog on hand

OP's dad is a Vet...

[davidst01]

Puzzled as to why OP cannot do it himself - chloroform over an hour or two or diethyl ester plus a lethal injection will do the same job as at the vet's.

perhaps this may be common knowledge to you, but many of us do not have the wherewithal to kill a man or dog on hand

OP's dad is a Vet...

it doesnt mean that Im a vet or have the knowledge of my dad

[manarak]

Puzzled as to why OP cannot do it himself - chloroform over an hour or two or diethyl ester plus a lethal injection will do the same job as at the vet's.

perhaps this may be common knowledge to you, but many of us do not have the wherewithal to kill a man or dog on hand

OP's dad is a Vet...

it doesnt mean that Im a vet or have the knowledge of my dad

and asking a quick question is impossible?

you have easy access to that knowledge.

[KC 71]

Mans best friend -lets not forget

[LeCharivari]

It is illegal for a vet in Thailand to put a dog to sleep and the penalties are really harsh, this was the response i got when my old dog was really sick and i took it to the vets, after i sat with the vet for nearly an hour explaining that it was more cruel to let the dog suffer he decided to make a couple of phone calls and then gave me an address and said take her there and wait for him, When i got there it was his storage yard in the moddle of nowhere, he gave her the drug and she went to sleep, we sat and talked and he explained how most vets understood the need sometimes to put animals to sleep but were too frightened of the consequenses.

What absolute rubbish.

[LeCharivari]

..

Just in case you think I'm a callous bastid, it's an act of compassion, I have been distraught every time I have lost a pet in the past, and I mean, distraught.

Not callous, just not a vet and so not in any position to make an informed decision.

...

The poor dog in the OP would be gone already, that's not to say that I wouldn't have taken the precaution of speaking to a vet first as after all, this is Thailand. As soon as the vet refused to put the animal down I would do it without compunction. ...

How do you know it "would be gone"? Did you see it? Do you have any idea what was wrong with it? Do you know if a vet could have done anything for it if given the opportunity a week or a month ago?

Nothing surprises me about this thread - least of all those making the most of the opportunity to say how terribly Thais look after their pets, as if such things never happen in Farangland, and how Thai vets never euthanise animals. What uninformed nonsense.

[LeCharivari]

it doesnt mean that Im a vet or have the knowledge of my dad

and asking a quick question is impossible?

you have easy access to that knowledge.

Maybe his dad isn't here, with a ready supply of chloroform and lethal injections that he's happy to dish out on demand ...

... and maybe the local pharmacy may have some reservations about selling them to anyone who just calls in and wants to buy some ...

[theblether]

..

Just in case you think I'm a callous bastid, it's an act of compassion, I have been distraught every time I have lost a pet in the past, and I mean, distraught.

Not callous, just not a vet and so not in any position to make an informed decision.

...

The poor dog in the OP would be gone already, that's not to say that I wouldn't have taken the precaution of speaking to a vet first as after all, this is Thailand. As soon as the vet refused to put the animal down I would do it without compunction. ...

How do you know it "would be gone"? Did you see it? Do you have any idea what was wrong with it? Do you know if a vet could have done anything for it if given the opportunity a week or a month ago?

Nothing surprises me about this thread - least of all those making the most of the opportunity to say how terribly Thais look after their pets, as if such things never happen in Farangland, and how Thai vets never euthanise animals. What uninformed nonsense.

Thanks for your supportive input. It's nice to know that there's always a TV member on hand to undermine other members experience gathered over a lifetime.

Naturally the ability to take quotes out of context is a wonferful tool too.

[Keith67]

It is illegal for a vet in Thailand to put a dog to sleep and the penalties are really harsh, this was the response i got when my old dog was really sick and i took it to the vets, after i sat with the vet for nearly an hour explaining that it was more cruel to let the dog suffer he decided to make a couple of phone calls and then gave me an address and said take her there and wait for him, When i got there it was his storage yard in the moddle of nowhere, he gave her the drug and she went to sleep, we sat and talked and he explained how most vets understood the need sometimes to put animals to sleep but were too frightened of the consequenses.

Ridiculous!

I"ve had 2 of my dogs put to sleep here in Phuket. I have met and talked to many vets here over the years and not one of them would sit by and see a dog really suffer.

Sheryl's post is by far the best advice on this thread. Take the dog to the vets as quickly as possible.

Really congratulations, as i didn't live in Phuket the travel down from Bangkok would almost certainly have killed my dog.

Now, base this on Buddhism and the difference in the way Thais explain their belief of what is legal or ilegal, right or wrong:

This article was previously

released as paper presented at the Sixth Asian Law Institute (ASLI) Conference,
Shanghai, People
Republic of China, 25-26 May 2006.

Assistant Professor Faculty of Law,

Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok, Thailand, LL.B. Chulalongkorn University, Diplôme d’Etude Approfondie
de droit international (Université de Paris II), Docteur en droit (Université de Paris II).

Although this article was regarding the euthanasia laws with regard to humans and not animals, the buddhist belief is in relation to both.

In Buddhism, the very

first precept of admonition for good living is the abstention from destruction
of life. This prohibition applies to
life of all forms, human and animal. And
the precept is equally binding on both monks and laypersons.

What he was refering to may not be classed as illegal in the eye of the law but according to buddhism for a good life it is morally ilegal. Why this would be any different being done in a different location i don't know.

It is illegal for a vet in Thailand to put a dog to sleep and the penalties are really harsh, this was the response i got when my old dog was really sick and i took it to the vets, after i sat with the vet for nearly an hour explaining that it was more cruel to let the dog suffer he decided to make a couple of phone calls and then gave me an address and said take her there and wait for him, When i got there it was his storage yard in the moddle of nowhere, he gave her the drug and she went to sleep, we sat and talked and he explained how most vets understood the need sometimes to put animals to sleep but were too frightened of the consequenses.

What absolute rubbish.

I have had 2 refusals from vets in both Bangkok and Udon Thani saying the same thing, although after having the thought to look into why they would say its illegal when posters of such high stature can show such large amounts of proof or experience as to why it is not illegal. Oh sorry i got it wrong you didn't disprove the fact you just came out with an uneducated comment of "what absolute rubbish", i am sure your wish to try and show you greater knowledge or intellect would be far more accepted if you could add a reason for your comments.

[Keith67]

Puzzled as to why OP cannot do it himself - chloroform over an hour or two or diethyl ester plus a lethal injection will do the same job as at the vet's.

perhaps this may be common knowledge to you, but many of us do not have the wherewithal to kill a man or dog on hand

OP's dad is a Vet...

My dad was a doctor, does this mean i should tend to the needs of the sick or dying?

The training to be a vet and treat sick or injured animals is longer than that of a GP, for obvious reasons an animal cant tell you where it hurts or what the problem is.

I couldn't put an animal to sleep even though due to my father experience maybe people would think that strange.

[Radar501]

This particular thread is about a stray, if I am not mistaken. Family pets instill a different level of complex emotions. But still, if suffering is great and no vet will do it, then you should find some means to do it. If the animal is non violent it is possible to use Carbon monoxide from exhaust to facilitate a painless passing.

No this dog was not a stray. It was owned by some ladies who have a shop. These ladies are absolutely hopeless and uneducated people and should not have a dog as a pet. I walked past this dog in its cage a month ago and it was lying there in its cage with a small sore on its back. I thought back then that the dog should see a vet but did nothing about it. I regret it so much

I found a vet eventually who agreed on the phone to give it the green dream- in oz the vets use a brand called 'lethabarb' I think. It was hard trying to find a taxi that would take us to the vet in the heat of the day. I had to pay him thb1000 and then he wanted a 200 tip. The vet today charged me 200 baht.

Whilst I was trying to sort out the taxi we transferred the poor dog to a cadboard box and using my cold bottle of water I slowly in its mouth. It stopped crying (convulsions) briefly. The stupid owners had evidently not been giving it drinks of water. I gave it water all the way to the vet- just felt so sorry for the poor dog as its had a shit life due to its irresponsible thai owners who have no money or are kee neow.

The whole experience of this suffering dog was so upsetting but a relief for the poor thing who was in hell for many months. It is a shame that the thai's think its a 'Sin' for putting down a suffering animal.

David.

I appreciate the time, effort, concern and money that you have spent to fast-track the unfortunate dog to canine heaven.

I know it is too late now, but I did a google search and found a Thailand Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals website, complete with phone numbers.

Maybe someone there could have given you the help you needed. For All Creatures Great and Small.

www.thaispca.org/english

[LeCharivari]

Keith 67, I am really not interested in some sort of bizarre pissing competition about who is better educated or more intellectual.

To "disprove" the illegality of euthanasia would require showing you every Thai law, proving that I had not left any out, and your reading them all. We both probably have better things to do, so it would be considerably quicker for you or one of the other experts here to simply quote the relevant law (or not).

Illegal and immoral are far from the same thing; maybe you should consider the possibility that it is far simpler for a vet who does not want to euthanise an animal to say that it is illegal than to say that it is immoral and face a lengthy moral argument? You could also consider the point that while a Mahayanan Buddhist vet may try to convert you and to explain their beliefs a Theravadan (Thai) Buddhist vet is far less likely to as Theravadans, to put it simplistically, believe that it is up to you to find your own way, not up to them to try to convert you.

Your article on euthanasia in Thailand is incorrect, as it is out of date. This was amended by the Thai National Health Act, article 12, part 1, dated 20 March 2550 (2007), which left the option of prolonging life artificially up to individual doctors and legalised the removal of life support subject to legal living wills or next of kin (and the ability to pay the bill!).

Its the same situation for vets - whereas in the west there's a legal obligation for vets to euthanise animals, under appropriate circumstances, just as there's a legal obligation for doctors to withdraw life support for people under appropriate circumstances, there are no such legal obligations here one way or the other and its entirely up to the individual doctor or vet.

I hope that's intellectual and educated enough for you.

[ghworker2010]

Ask the vet to set it all up and you administer the final dose.

This is one of my concerns about living in Thailand. My two dogs are like my children and when their time comes, I do not want them to suffer. My fear is that a Vet in Thailand will not euthanize them and they will suffer until the end.

Do you know if a Vet would agree to prepare the lethal dose and allow the owner to administer?

if I find a vet tomorrow I will send you a PM to let you know

I just had to take my dog to get it put down. FYI the vet who did it is on 02 2483127

[Kitsune]

I had the same experience with my pet.

Vet refused to put it down and refused to give him pain relief

Left with a creature suffering so much is a horrible experience.

I researched everything I could to take that pain away and found lavender, it's a powerful pain killer, you make the animal breath it or massage it.

It was used during WW1 as pain killer for wounded soldiers

It's short duration and you have to keep doing it but it does give relief, while waiting for the vet.

[LeCharivari]

I had the same experience with my pet.

Vet refused to put it down and refused to give him pain relief

Left with a creature suffering so much is a horrible experience.

I researched everything I could to take that pain away and found lavender, it's a powerful pain killer, you make the animal breath it or massage it.

It was used during WW1 as pain killer for wounded soldiers

It's short duration and you have to keep doing it but it does give relief, while waiting for the vet.

Try another vet.

[robblok]

I had the same experience with my pet.

Vet refused to put it down and refused to give him pain relief

Left with a creature suffering so much is a horrible experience.

I researched everything I could to take that pain away and found lavender, it's a powerful pain killer, you make the animal breath it or massage it.

It was used during WW1 as pain killer for wounded soldiers

It's short duration and you have to keep doing it but it does give relief, while waiting for the vet.

Try another vet.

We tried 5 vets.. none would do it. Thank god she passed away last night. I am still sad about it .

[Keith67]

Keith 67, I am really not interested in some sort of bizarre pissing competition about who is better educated or more intellectual.

To "disprove" the illegality of euthanasia would require showing you every Thai law, proving that I had not left any out, and your reading them all. We both probably have better things to do, so it would be considerably quicker for you or one of the other experts here to simply quote the relevant law (or not).

Amother irrelavant rant by you , you obviously missed the comment "Now, base this on Buddhism and the difference in the way Thais explain their belief of what is legal or ilegal, right or wrong:

Illegal and immoral are far from the same thing; maybe you should consider the possibility that it is far simpler for a vet who does not want to euthanise an animal to say that it is illegal than to say that it is immoral and face a lengthy moral argument? You could also consider the point that while a Mahayanan Buddhist vet may try to convert you and to explain their beliefs a Theravadan (Thai) Buddhist vet is far less likely to as Theravadans, to put it simplistically, believe that it is up to you to find your own way, not up to them to try to convert you.

Read comment above, is my comment not stating exactly what you are trying to tell me?

Your article on euthanasia in Thailand is incorrect, as it is out of date. This was amended by the Thai National Health Act, article 12, part 1, dated 20 March 2550 (2007), which left the option of prolonging life artificially up to individual doctors and legalised the removal of life support subject to legal living wills or next of kin (and the ability to pay the bill!).

As the topic is about vets and not doctors and i clearly made a comment about the Buddhist element, obviously i wrongly assumed that peope would realise i was not refering to the relevence of euthanasia i was using the buddhist reference.

Its the same situation for vets - whereas in the west there's a legal obligation for vets to euthanise animals, under appropriate circumstances, just as there's a legal obligation for doctors to withdraw life support for people under appropriate circumstances, there are no such legal obligations here one way or the other and its entirely up to the individual doctor or vet.

I hope that's intellectual and educated enough for you.

Absolutely if you disregard all but the last paragraph due to that being the only relevant answer. As for the rest of your rant amusing as it was.......well

[Cuban]

The training to be a vet and treat sick or injured animals is longer

than that of a GP, for obvious reasons an animal cant tell you where it

hurts or what the problem is.

This "fact" is often said but it is not true.

----------------------------------------

On the issue about being told by a Thai vet that something is "illegal"; it is forgotten that where the conversation is taking place in English or other non-Thai language there is the matter of translation. So often not the exact word/phrase will be be used (known) and the closest word within the speaker's vocabulary will be used to convey the meaning they wish to communicate.

E.G. In a McDonalds I can imagine a Thai server telling a non-Thai customer that swapping a Fanta for a Coffee in a Happy Meal is "illegal". Clearly there is no law against such meal-combination but the meaning that the request is not possible (due to some McDonalds marketing/sales rules) has been communicated.

Also there is the Thai "solution" to difficult situations by avoidance at all costs rather than deal with something they can not or choose not to do, the motivation may be loss of "face" if it is an administrative task that they do not know how to do (Being the first Yellow Book ever requested in that Amphor) or breaking their own moral code in the case of asking a Buddhist to take another's life.

By telling you it is illegal does two things: #1 resolves them of having to deal with a troubling problem and #2 makes you go away.

[Sheryl]

Actually I keep hearing in this board about people being told by Thais that this that or the other is "illegal" (and not just re euthanizing pets) but in >20 years living here I have never heard a Thai say that. They will say "cannot", "not allowed" and so forth but specifically that something was against the law in the criminal sense...no. So indeed I think this is a translation issue and also how people may interpret answers they get.

[robblok]

Actually I keep hearing in this board about people being told by Thais that this that or the other is "illegal" (and not just re euthanizing pets) but in >20 years living here I have never heard a Thai say that. They will say "cannot", "not allowed" and so forth but specifically that something was against the law in the criminal sense...no. So indeed I think this is a translation issue and also how people may interpret answers they get.

We went to 5 vets and none said it was not allowed they started talking about religion one even said the dog had bad karma ect ect. To them it was a religion thing.