Liverpool F.c.

[Jimjim]

As an international fan I still haven't heard some things like this. I've only spent about 5 days in Liverpool in my life. Cheers, mate. Now I know.

Edit: To clarify, I knew about Hillsborough already, but not about the S**. As for Liverpool's general political persuasion, I plead ignorance on that one. Obviously not generally Tory? Is it Labour? Liberal? Something else?

[StevieH]

was always pretty much entirely left wing / socialist ergo labour voters. . . .up until recent times anyway when the labour part leapt to the centre-right. the tory party and specifically margaret thatcher was responsible for the destruction of the traditional industries in the north of england during the 1980s and the breakdown of many communities. . . .the mining industry the biggest example, liverpool dock workers a specific local example. the s*n and the rest of murdoch's press stable are right wing rags, so the s*n was never the most popular paper on merseyside even before hillsborough. the boycott of the s*n continues strongly to this day, apparently much to the anger of mr murdoch.

[Jimjim]

Well, I'm sorry I ever mentioned it.

So, how about this Pacheco kid? I think it's likely we'll see him in some matches this season. If he becomes a wonder boy like Messi who can do it at the top level this season, it will be like bringing in a new signing. Remains to be seen how much of an impact he could make this season, however. Perhaps he'll be a wonder-sub this season. Anyway, however much he can do this season, looks like a great one for the future if Liverpool can hold on to him.

[StevieH]

nothing to apologise for jimjim, i'm sorry if my tone was a little tetchy. the s*n is a touchy subject for liverpudlians.

pacheco looks to have bags of ability and has been lively in pre-season matches so far, whether he's got the physique to make an impact in competitive games remains to be seen though i think. he'll most likely play in league cup games this season and maybe the odd league game off the bench if we've injuries. personally i'd stick him and nemeth both ahead of voronin in the pecking order.

[Jimjim]

Well, I guess most Liverpool fans are on holiday.

Robbie Keane just signed for Liverpool. I'm a little surprised the deal went through and thought it was about 5 million pounds too high but I think that's because Tottenham really wanted to keep him. I'm quite happy with this signing but with any new player only time will tell if it will work out. Surely he'll get at least 10 premier league goals. Has he transformed Liverpool's strike force to the most feared in the league? Torres is surely the level of Berbatov or better and last year I think Tottenham's strikeforce was more feared than anybodys.

Your thoughts, Liverpool Reds fans?

[MSingh]

Well, I guess most Liverpool fans are on holiday.

Robbie Keane just signed for Liverpool. I'm a little surprised the deal went through and thought it was about 5 million pounds too high but I think that's because Tottenham really wanted to keep him. I'm quite happy with this signing but with any new player only time will tell if it will work out. Surely he'll get at least 10 premier league goals. Has he transformed Liverpool's strike force to the most feared in the league? Torres is surely the level of Berbatov or better and last year I think Tottenham's strikeforce was more feared than anybodys.

Your thoughts, Liverpool Reds fans?

Can i just add that the lovely Liverpool, in an attempt to cover up the blatant Benitez tapping up & unsettling of this Player, made an undisclosed donation to T*ttenham's favourite Charity, how nice of them..;thumbsdown

Quoted from BBC..

======

Tottenham have also agreed to drop their official complaint to the Premier League after Liverpool apologised for their conduct in pursuing the Irishman.

Relations between the clubs became strained after Spurs chairman Daniel Levy accused the Reds of breaking Premier League rules in making their interest in Keane known despite being told by the Londoners he was not for sale.

However, a statement on the Spurs website read: "Liverpool FC have acknowledged that the way its website reported comments of its manager, which were widely covered by the media, was inappropriate.

"In light of that acknowledgement (they) have apologised and agreed to make a donation to our Club's main charity, the Tottenham Hotspur Foundation.

"Tottenham Hotspur has therefore agreed not to pursue its official complaint to the Premier League."

=======

I'm certainly no T*ttenham Fan by any stretch but how Liverpool & Man Ure get away with this sort of thing infuriates me, still for Levy & T*ttenham, what goes around come around, just ask Martin Jol..

I will say i fancy Liverpool as a dark Horse for the League this year, anyone have any idea on a price you can get them at ?

Gerrard playing in that advanced role with Gerrard & Keane supporting & supplying Torres could be a serious problem for most Teams if not all...

[The Vulcan]

KEANE COMPLETES LIVERPOOL SWITCH

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/...p;TEAMHD=soccer

As per Sporting Life

[Mahseer]

I'm a Spurs fan and absolutely gutted to have lost Keane and I really doubt there is a Scouser in the land that fully appreciates the quality that you have just inherited. Keane's appetite for the game and ability to get others involved was evident time and again in a completely average side last season and how many times did he get a lagging Berbatov going a game? Take a look at Keane's reaction when the final whistle went in the League Cup win over Chelsea to just see how passionate this lad is about football and of course he is a majestic goal scorer with vision that is matched by few.

Will he score goals for Liverpool? Of course he will and just how many depends on how his is played and how often but he will be a success and the only thing he will lack is the pace to keep up with Torres but that applies to most.

Wish him well and confess that I will be watching a few more of your games this season than I did last.

[anothertorres]

Torres is surely the level of Berbatov or better and last year I think Tottenham's strikeforce was more feared than anybodys.

Your thoughts, Liverpool Reds fans?

Berbatov can play another 10 years and he won't amount to what Torres has already done. Mark my words, Liverpool will win the Premiership this year. However, I can't quite make out if this team is built to also win the CL.

If you remove the 2-3 silly draws and 1-2 horrible losses from last season, they at least run it up to the end of the season. This team is much stronger and I can only assume the key players will have matured together quite well by now.

I'm an Arbeloa fan, but I don't want a guy that has his head in his homeland. I feel so much better that the money spent was for Keane instead of Barry. We still have a couple we can parse out; Pennant, Arbeloa, Xabi?? Is it even possible to afford a Silva? And where on earth would we put him? And what is the future of Babel?

[MSingh]

I'm a Spurs fan and absolutely gutted to have lost Keane and I really doubt there is a Scouser in the land that fully appreciates the quality that you have just inherited. Keane's appetite for the game and ability to get others involved was evident time and again in a completely average side last season and how many times did he get a lagging Berbatov going a game? Take a look at Keane's reaction when the final whistle went in the League Cup win over Chelsea to just see how passionate this lad is about football and of course he is a majestic goal scorer with vision that is matched by few.

Will he score goals for Liverpool? Of course he will and just how many depends on how his is played and how often but he will be a success and the only thing he will lack is the pace to keep up with Torres but that applies to most.

Wish him well and confess that I will be watching a few more of your games this season than I did last.

Good P;ayer no doubt but at 20m he certainly isn't inherited...

[The Vulcan]

For me I'm well pleased with the Keane signing. Barry would be a nice addition but somehow I can't see it happening in this transfer window. Lets hope Alonso sorts out his indifference's and returns to the quality he once was.

Alan Hansen recently highlighted our need for wingers and I feel that unless Rafa looks at this department we are falling short.

Babel is no winger, and Pennant ...........!

AND I'M STILL NOT CONVINCED ABOUT REINA!

[Jimjim]

As Torres was leaving the stadium through the backdoor after winning the Euro Final, a reporter got him real quick and asked him what he had to say to Liverpool supporters. He thanked them and then said with a big smile on his face, "We will win the Premier League." The silly fan that I am, I stood up and cheered in my living room. I see that as a real possibility now. For hopes and dreams.

[kopite]

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/join.html

[The Vulcan]

Who's a Pretty Boy then eh?

Liverpool land Premier League beauty crown

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2485595/P...auty-crown.html

Daily Telegraph

[Jimjim]

Babel is great as an attacking winger, Spock. I think he's fantastic. But it's true that a solid all-around midfield winger is probably about the only thing we're missing. I thought Pennant was great in the Champions League Final against Milan but hasn't impressed since. I do think Kuyt has been solid as a winger, though. He did great for the Dutch in that role as well. And Rafa may be Keane (pun intended) on using strikers like Voronin, Kuyt, and Keane as wingers with just Torres up front. I'm not sure we'll get a midfield winger in this transfer window. Perhaps Aurelio could turn into a decent midfield left player? As for fullbacks, we are set. Rafa got two very quickly so he knew that was a need. Right now we've only get Pennant, Babel and Benayoun as confirmed midfield wingers. Leto is there but hasn't played a lot and there are some reserves on the fringes of the first team who could play there like Nabil El Zhar. I think they'll make do with using strikers in that role and perhaps Leto can come along. I don't know but I could see even Gerrard playing there sometimes this season. An interesting lineup that could confuse defenders would see Gerrard start on the right and Keane as the deep striker. Throughout a game they could switch places when needed. I'd like to see that attempted a few times at least.

[The Vulcan]

A trip down memory lane ...............

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/system/to..._under_Shankly/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/system/to...aisley_and_Fag/

Times newspaper

[StevieH]

For me I'm well pleased with the Keane signing. Barry would be a nice addition but somehow I can't see it happening in this transfer window. Lets hope Alonso sorts out his indifference's and returns to the quality he once was.

Alan Hansen recently highlighted our need for wingers and I feel that unless Rafa looks at this department we are falling short.

Babel is no winger, and Pennant ...........!

AND I'M STILL NOT CONVINCED ABOUT REINA!

not being funny vulcan, but are you alright in the bonce? reina's about the best, most consistent goalkeeper in the premier league, understated, rarely makes mistakes of any kind, great distribution, quick off his line to sweep up, fantastic shotstopper due to his agility and reflexes. . . .what's not to like?

oh and delighted with robbie keane, probably the best player in the division outside of the top four clubs, proven quality and a better goalscoring rate than most people think. he'll help us kick on.

[The Vulcan]

For me I'm well pleased with the Keane signing. Barry would be a nice addition but somehow I can't see it happening in this transfer window. Lets hope Alonso sorts out his indifference's and returns to the quality he once was.

Alan Hansen recently highlighted our need for wingers and I feel that unless Rafa looks at this department we are falling short.

Babel is no winger, and Pennant ...........!

AND I'M STILL NOT CONVINCED ABOUT REINA!

not being funny vulcan, but are you alright in the bonce? reina's about the best, most consistent goalkeeper in the premier league, understated, rarely makes mistakes of any kind, great distribution, quick off his line to sweep up, fantastic shotstopper due to his agility and reflexes. . . .what's not to like?

oh and delighted with robbie keane, probably the best player in the division outside of the top four clubs, proven quality and a better goalscoring rate than most people think. he'll help us kick on.

Reina - a great shot stopper but a nightmare with anything in the air, and frequently exposed on this weakness by savvy opposition.

Just mine and a lot of others opinion!

[Jimjim]

I've had this argument a lot with my Irish friend who is a Man U fan. He says Reina is average at best. I know he underestimates him but that's just his impression from seeing him play several times, and seeing some of the mistakes he's made. I think he is above average but others like my friends argue you have to give clean sheets more credit to the great defense Liverpool has then to Reina. I somewhat agree in that Reina had fewer clean sheets last season and I think most would agree Liverpool's defense was weaker than the year before. But to get clean sheets even though the defense gets credit you still have to be a a great keeper. As a fan of course I want to say he's the best in the league but honestly, I don't think that's true. I still think he's a lot better than my friend gives credit for especially as he's biased but he does have a point that he makes a few too many miscues, especially with balls in the air. If you look at it objectively you'll find a couple of goals where he made the wrong decision in the air. Drogba's goal in the FA Cup semi-final the season before last is just one example.

Basically, I think he is above average in every area except or height. Honestly I think if he was taller he would better. Of course that's just not possible. However, his height is perhaps his only disadvantage. I think that is the main reason he gets into trouble in the air. If he was a few inches taller with his skills he could be able to handle some of those competitive balls a bit more solidly. And if you think that's nonsense than just blame it on a few bad decisions and and the ball slipping out of his hands.

You could knock any keeper for having a few mishaps as they all do, but Reina has had a few too many last season to be called the best in the league. As for making great stops he's right near the top in my opinion, and he gets the ball further down the field than anybody with his free kicks. Ya, I think he's a great keeper but like anyone he has weaknesses. However, I think there's at least a couple who are just better all around.

Oh, and I guess Leto can't get a work permit again. Don't understand why some get exceptions and others don't. Perhaps those in charge aren't Liverpool fans?

To sum it up, I wouldn't echo StevieH's opinion that he "rarely makes mistakes" because I've definitely seen a few too many, especially last season, but I wouldn't overstate it the other way and say he's "a nightmare in the air." More somewhere in between.

[StevieH]

am really surprised at you guys' opinion of reina, pretty much every red i know wouldn't swap him for just about any other 'keeper in the game. his record is his record, he contributes as much to the defence as anybody, including carra, so the clean sheets stats are very much his. and i don't really know where he gets this reputation for not being good in the air, he's probably missed about four crosses since he signed for us and gets a decent punch on the ball pretty much all the time. i actually rate him as the best LFC 'keeper i've ever seen, better than clemence, grobelaar, the lot. even david james. i'm just baffled when people tell me they don't rate reina that highly.

anyhow, yeah leto on loan no great loss, barry will be signed this week. and fingers crossed xabi will stay too.

[Jimjim]

Like I say it's his height. He's average at best in the air. He missed more than four crosses just last season, mate. Was in bad form early last season and Benitez was even commenting on his poor form but said he'd turn it around, and he did. You've got your fan blinders on and I don't blame you. Clean sheets do belong to a keeper I suppose but you don't get them without a great defense. It's a team effort. I do rate him quite highly but I don't think he's the best in the league. If he was just a bit better he'd probably be first choice for Spain instead of second. Still very good, though.

[kopite]

am really surprised at you guys' opinion of reina, pretty much every red i know wouldn't swap him for just about any other 'keeper in the game. his record is his record, he contributes as much to the defence as anybody, including carra, so the clean sheets stats are very much his. and i don't really know where he gets this reputation for not being good in the air, he's probably missed about four crosses since he signed for us and gets a decent punch on the ball pretty much all the time. i actually rate him as the best LFC 'keeper i've ever seen, better than clemence, grobelaar, the lot. even david james. i'm just baffled when people tell me they don't rate reina that highly.

Nail. On. Head

[Jockstar]

even david james

:D

Wouldn't be difficult! One of the worst Liverpool goalkeepers ever.IMHO. I have never rated him.

[Jimjim]

David James is fantastic now, though (apart from some moments of madness and miscues still). One of those who got better with age. According to actim stats James was tops last year and Reina was second. I feel like those stats take into account how many games you've played as a plus. Van Der Sar made more saves last year than Reina and let in 10 less goals but he was lower on the charts, possibly because he played less games. That's the only stat I could see where he was lacking compared to Reina. I do think Reina's a great keeper, though. I think the beginning of last season he was not so great but the rest of the year he was solid. Just has a weakness, albeit small, and some make much more a deal out if it than it is. I have heard the knocks on him recently and when I thought about it his most major mistakes have all been with balls up in the air but I don't mean to understate his quality. He's not a nightmare in the air and he's one of the best keepers in the league, I just can't say he's the best. I think it's a very difficult to say who's the best and perhaps he'd be tied with a few others. I couldn't say who's the best. I think it was clearly Cech a couple seasons ago but now I don't think anyone is the clear leader.

[The Vulcan]

................. his most major mistakes have all been with balls up in the air

Bought a tear to me eye

[scousemouse]

Hi lads , I'm back online after doing a bit of this and that , seeing a man about a dog and sellin some hubcaps .

Quite a bit has happened during the close season but it's nice to be getting closer to the kick off. I am well happy with the signing of Robbie Keane as I don't think there are many other strikers out there with his talent and experience of playing in the premiership going for 20 million. It looks like we are not going to get Barry but I reckon that transfer saga has dragged on too long and it's time to put it to bed.

Looking forward to the banter !!!!!

[Jimjim]

Even just recently it was reported Alonso has been told he can leave but he hasn't been released obviously. I think he's been trying to show his quality in preseason hoping to stay on the team. I think Barry could still happen. There's still at least 3 weeks and I think it's not over yet. But I don't know if that means selling Alonso or not. Many seem to think it does. Seems likely if Barry will come Alonso will go. A big indicator of Alonso's future will be the Champions League, no? If he plays, I think he stays. Otherwise he wouldn't be too interested in not being able to play in the Champions League if he went to another top team.

[StevieH]

David James is fantastic now, though (apart from some moments of madness and miscues still). One of those who got better with age. According to actim stats James was tops last year and Reina was second. I feel like those stats take into account how many games you've played as a plus. Van Der Sar made more saves last year than Reina and let in 10 less goals but he was lower on the charts, possibly because he played less games. That's the only stat I could see where he was lacking compared to Reina. I do think Reina's a great keeper, though. I think the beginning of last season he was not so great but the rest of the year he was solid. Just has a weakness, albeit small, and some make much more a deal out if it than it is. I have heard the knocks on him recently and when I thought about it his most major mistakes have all been with balls up in the air but I don't mean to understate his quality. He's not a nightmare in the air and he's one of the best keepers in the league, I just can't say he's the best. I think it's a very difficult to say who's the best and perhaps he'd be tied with a few others. I couldn't say who's the best. I think it was clearly Cech a couple seasons ago but now I don't think anyone is the clear leader.

fair points jimjim, it took david james about 20 years as a professional to finally grow up and stop behaving like a tit. blue hair, spice boy clubbing, blaming basic mistakes on the fact that he'd been playing too much playstation. . . .was a complete joke when we had him.

every goalkeeper has at least one weak point, there's no such thing as the perfect 'keeper. . . .well maybe gigi buffon. casillas is fantastic but like reina isn't the tallest - i just don't think it's as big a factor as it used to be. 'keepers now have less crosses to deal with thanks to better managed zonal marking and also that flyaway ball that's used these days. petr cech for example has become really quite error-prone in the past couple of years while reina has become more consistent. i'd not swap pepe for anybody in the english league right now.

incidentally if you haven't seen this, it's brilliant. pepe conducts the spain euro08 celebration party: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3HfpckA5bg

[StevieH]

Even just recently it was reported Alonso has been told he can leave but he hasn't been released obviously. I think he's been trying to show his quality in preseason hoping to stay on the team. I think Barry could still happen. There's still at least 3 weeks and I think it's not over yet. But I don't know if that means selling Alonso or not. Many seem to think it does. Seems likely if Barry will come Alonso will go. A big indicator of Alonso's future will be the Champions League, no? If he plays, I think he stays. Otherwise he wouldn't be too interested in not being able to play in the Champions League if he went to another top team.

it looks like hicks and gillett are fuc_king about, AGAIN. rafa wants barry, back the manager and give him what he needs to improve the team. last time i looked hicks and gillett knew fuc_k all about football yet now they see fit to tell rafa benitez that gareth barry 'doesn't represent value for money'? wanke_rs the pair of them.

fingers crossed we can get barry in still and that we also keep alonso. then we've, at least when the three players come back from the olympics, got a squad we can go forward with and hopefully challenge properly for the title this season.

you're right about xabi btw, if he plays against standard liege then i guess he's staying. which will please me greatly.

[scousemouse]

Even just recently it was reported Alonso has been told he can leave but he hasn't been released obviously. I think he's been trying to show his quality in preseason hoping to stay on the team. I think Barry could still happen. There's still at least 3 weeks and I think it's not over yet. But I don't know if that means selling Alonso or not. Many seem to think it does. Seems likely if Barry will come Alonso will go. A big indicator of Alonso's future will be the Champions League, no? If he plays, I think he stays. Otherwise he wouldn't be too interested in not being able to play in the Champions League if he went to another top team.

it looks like hicks and gillett are fuc_king about, AGAIN. rafa wants barry, back the manager and give him what he needs to improve the team. last time i looked hicks and gillett knew fuc_k all about football yet now they see fit to tell rafa benitez that gareth barry 'doesn't represent value for money'? wanke_rs the pair of them.

you're right about xabi btw, if he plays against standard liege then i guess he's staying. which will please me greatly.

I agree with you stevie mate regarding Alonso staying . A few fans forget that he broke his foot TWICE last season but a fully fit Alonso is a first team player ( and he got man of the match against Lazio last night ).

I wouldn't swap Reina for any other keeper in the prem. The Barry saga has dragged on too long for my liking , if we get him sweet if we don't I reckon our midfield of Gerrard , Mascherano , Alonso , Lucas , Babel , Plessis and even Kuyt is good enough anyway.

It's nice to to see a few of the lads from the reserve team ( Jay Spearing , Stephen Darby and Kristian Nemeth ) promoted to the first team. I hope both Spearing and Darby do well as it's always nice to see a scouser pulling on the shirt , Gerrard was the last player to come through the ranks at that was 10 years ago. I reckon Nemeth will go out on loan and do really well , he was prolific for the reseves last season.

After saying goodbye to Crouch , Kewell and Riise I reckon we could get shut of a few more players to free up some cash, IMO , Pennant , Benayoun and Vorronin wouldn't be missed much. We need a left sided player .......... Barry