Roto-Tiller, Anyone Using One Here.

[canuckamuck]

They may be known by different names. We call them Roto-tillers in Canada, but I have seen them called hand tillers, and a few other things.

Basically it has a pull start engine over a set of tilling blades, and handles out the back to control it by hand. a pair of wheels often sets the depth. Great for gardens back home, but not popular at all here.

I have seen them from 60,000 baht all the way down to 19,000 but usually they are around 40,000. Often they have a Honda motor on top, I think 5 Hp is normal.

Anyhow, can they be used here, and why are they so incredibly expensive.

[maprao]

Mostly they use tak taks They can be purchased in the same price range second hand.

[samuijimmy]

I have seen one type here, front end blades, (cannot remember make now) which just bounce all over the place .... Rear blade would be much better, like the old Howard machines! in CA

Probably expensive, due to not much demand as the Thai's like their hand held choppers!

The machine which I believe was order from BKK was a multi-purpose thing with several attachments including a pull behind small trailer... pretty useless unless working with already soft soil!

[canuckamuck]

I have seen the machine, or one like the one you mention Jimmy. It seemed to be made for too many things at once and likely no good at any of them.

It is the hard soil I am concerned about. but if you got it worked once, it would be possible to mulch in lots of organic matter and hopefully change the soil over time. I had great luck with this in Canada, but we didn't have this rock hard stuff over there.

[samuijimmy]

I have seen the machine, or one like the one you mention Jimmy. It seemed to be made for too many things at once and likely no good at any of them.

It is the hard soil I am concerned about. but if you got it worked once, it would be possible to mulch in lots of organic matter and hopefully change the soil over time. I had great luck with this in Canada, but we didn't have this rock hard stuff over there.

yes definitely to much a multipurpose machine.... that bounced around too much...eh!

The person who had this machine, was adding lots of composted soil (i.e) composed coconut fibre mostly with sharp sand and some clay.... for a large (huge) garden project...

It did work reasonable well if the base soil was damp and able to mix the new soil with the existing soil / hard pan! ... which can be a bit like Prairie dirt! (fortunately not many rocks in the area....)

Not sure where you are, but composed soil maybe hard to find in your area... Samui has several places that make it... mostly for resort type places.

[canuckamuck]

I have a mountain of rice husks next door that are free for the taking, I can mulch it in over and over again. The part I am wondering about is will I be able to break the soil in the first place without needing a hoe. There are rocks here too, but not too much to deal with, I think.

[samuijimmy]

I have a mountain of rice husks next door that are free for the taking, I can mulch it in over and over again. The part I am wondering about is will I be able to break the soil in the first place without needing a hoe. There are rocks here too, but not too much to deal with, I think.

Rice husks are good, you see them using them in the Songklha.... rice areas! lucky you.... to have a source... how about some buffalo poo too!

With the rocks... ummm perhaps. make it a game for the local kids might work...? they are often bored outta their minds.... see if you can motivate them!

No one with one of these in the area? either with disks or rototiller on the back, or is the area you are trying to work, too confined for this?

[nahkbin]

Good used tillers can be found here at places that import used Japanese equipment. I have a strong Yanmar 10hp single cylinder diesel walk behind tiller. Beats up the operator but really beats up the soil too. They can be had in the Pathumthani area for about B30,000....the last time I checked.

Also have a small Honda with tines in front and no wheels. Does a really nice job on soil that has been plowed or disced. Think that one cost us B7000.

[canuckamuck]

Well we have had a tractor in there before, but disks make a pretty messy job and I was hoping to make things a little more civilized. Plus discs don't really do much for blending stuff into the soil. I have not seen any one with a rotating tiller attachment in this area or I would have given that a shot.

The things is though if I got the roto-tiller thing working, I could just go do it when I wanted to instead of hoping someone could be available. We are only talking about a couple of rai here for the garden.

That 7000 baht unit Nahkbin mentioned would be the solution, but Pathumthani is really far from me in Chiang Rai. Perhaps there is second hand stuff available up here as well.

Thanks for the comment guys.

[Apache704]

The best walk behind roto-tiller that I have seen is a Kubota engine especially designed with a large Roto-tiller on the back that could handle almost anything a tractor with a r0to-tiller could do. But It's around 150,000 Baht and 3-4 times as large as the biggest Troy built tiller that I had in Canada. You can get them at any Kubota dealer. If they don't have one ask for a brochure you'll be impressed.

[jingjoke]

Good stuff guys, thanks.

[Canada]

I was just at Kubota. We are going to get one of those little narrow machines. There is a roto attachment for it, a sprayer, a fertilizer applicator, a 3 disc, a 5disc, some other rake type things, A great unit for a big garden. smallest on(21hp) starts at 230,000, tractor only, next is 24 hp - 311,000. Plus plus plus. We have a lot of sugarcane....just like the commercial for these things.

I spent some time looking fr rototillers. Yes they are availabe, but ridiculous prices. The jap import small walk behind version of a edek here is a good bet, I did run onto those too, but I would be worried about trying to get parts for it.

When I get my new mini tractor, I'll post up some pics.

[NeverSure]

With all due respect, a disk (or disc) will do a good job. That's what it's for. Rototillers are for small areas where a farm tractor is impractical. Even the tractor mounted tillers are used on large gardens more than anything.

The disks are cupped and canted for a reason. They cut and turn the soil, pulling up weeds and other junk including small rocks. They turn under crop residue and incorporate it into the soil. I've never seen a rototiller in a large field and I've never seen a real farmer without a disk harrow.

har·row Link

1 [har-oh]

noun

1. an agricultural implement with spike-like teeth or upright disks, drawn chiefly over plowed land to level it, break up clods, root up weeds, etc.

The next thing which would concern me is actually decomposing the rice husks. Do they contain much nitrogen? Plant fiber lacking nitrogen won't decompose well at all.

As for your hard soil, there is a moment in time when it is neither too wet nor too dry and it will till.

If I were in no hurry, I'd pick that day when the tilth was good, and just turn the rice husks into the soil with a disk harrow. After that you could do it any time because you'd now have good tilth from the organic matter mixture. I'd seriously till in a layer of husks a foot deep if I had the material. It will decompose to a fraction of that, but still leave your soil with good tilth.

Then I'd plant a cover crop of a legume. I understand there is a legume in LOS that's widely grown that is related to alfalfa. That would fix the nitrogen in the soil for the microorganisms to use to decompose the rice husks, and would give you even more but better organic matter to mow and disk into the soil when it matured. Be sure to mow and disk that cover crop when it's full size but still green. Green matter breaks down easier and will help the rice husks to decompose by providing and feeding even more microorganisms.

Then I'd repeat the rice husks and cover crop as soon as practical.

Good luck with it. It's amazing what organic material will do for soil.

PS Don't let anyone talk you into using sand. Yes sandy soil is nice but in your case sand is heavy and will soon work it's way out of suspension and disappear. It also adds no fertility. Put your money or efforts into organic material.

PS In case I wasn't clear, I'd but the rice husks in the soil straightaway without composting first just to loosen up the soil so that I could work it at will. Then I'd focus on causing decomposition to make it into humus.

[farmerjo]

My rototiller,a bit agricultural but works fine.

[khunkeith]

I found a small roto tiller last year near Rayong. It's electric and lighweight but, does the trick. I have to wet the ground first to make it work though and it bounces around a bit when breaking the ground the first time. Once the ground is broken it's in fist sized chunks and I wet that (or wait until after a good rain) and break it again. What I used to do with a hoe and pick-axe and would take me a couple days, I do with the tiller in less than an hour. The first time breaking the ground is though but, once broken, it's easy and quick.

I think I paid about 5000 baht for it. I had to drive 7 hours to Rayong, night in hotel, meals, etc. They had gasoline powered ones but, were sold out when I arrived and had to settle for an electric one as I did not want to make that drive again. It suits my purpose for the small garden in my yard.

[cooked]

I hate these things, I consider them a danger to life and limb. In another life I had a two wheeled tactor, 15HP that I could lead with one hand. 'Twas a trifle expensive but I had it for 30 years until an idiot put the wrong fuel in it.

[khunkeith]

I hate these things, I consider them a danger to life and limb. In another life I had a two wheeled tactor, 15HP that I could lead with one hand. 'Twas a trifle expensive but I had it for 30 years until an idiot put the wrong fuel in it.

Just about every power tool, if used incorrectly, is a danger to life or limb.

I had a roto tiller that my dad purchased about 1960 and gave to me 30 years later. It still ran like a top, cast iron engine, 3.5HP with rear tynes. I remember, when I was young, using it in dad's garden and it had a container that held either sand or water to add to the weight but, that had long rusted away. I believe it was a Sears model.

But, that was then and this is now. I get what I can get here and am happy to find the tiller I found. My garden is not big enough to justify anything self propelled. I only have 1 rai and only about 10% of that I used for growing produce.

[connda]

canuckamuck Posted 2013-05-02 11:24:02

They may be known by different names. We call them Roto-tillers in Canada, but I have seen them called hand tillers, and a few other things. Basically it has a pull start engine over a set of tilling blades, and handles out the back to control it by hand. a pair of wheels often sets the depth. Great for gardens back home, but not popular at all here.

I have seen them from 60,000 baht all the way down to 19,000 but usually they are around 40,000. Often they have a Honda motor on top, I think 5 Hp is normal. Anyhow, can they be used here, and why are they so incredibly expensive.

I have human rototillers. I rent them a couple of time a year at about 250 baht per day per person. Use them about twice a year. I even throw in a bottle of rice whiskey at the end of the day to keep the motors well oiled and running smoothly. So it's costing me about 1K baht a year. WOW! I can rototiller my garden for 40 years.

Why are they so incredibly expensive? Same reason as cars, decent sized motorcycles, and virtually anything that is affordable in Canuckland and Yankland is expensive here. Tariffs. It's the trade-off of living here. Some things are really cheap (labor) and some things are really expensive (I sold my five year old Honda Accord at above blue book price in Yankland and could have gotten twice the amount here in the LOS -- shrug, smile).

Canuckamuck. My guess is you've lived here a long time so I sure you understand this: I invest in people and labor. If you buy the expensive rototiller and amortize it over even 10 years, you're way ahead here in Thailand by hiring people and investing in your local community. If I was back in Yankland or Canuckland, I'd buy and use the rototiller which in the long-run would be cheaper. Or you may just love using a rototiller for the fun of it. In that case I'd say, "Go For It"

[khunkeith]

canuckamuck Posted 2013-05-02 11:24:02

They may be known by different names. We call them Roto-tillers in Canada, but I have seen them called hand tillers, and a few other things. Basically it has a pull start engine over a set of tilling blades, and handles out the back to control it by hand. a pair of wheels often sets the depth. Great for gardens back home, but not popular at all here.

I have seen them from 60,000 baht all the way down to 19,000 but usually they are around 40,000. Often they have a Honda motor on top, I think 5 Hp is normal. Anyhow, can they be used here, and why are they so incredibly expensive.

I have human rototillers. I rent them a couple of time a year at about 250 baht per day per person. Use them about twice a year. I even throw in a bottle of rice whiskey at the end of the day to keep the motors well oiled and running smoothly. So it's costing me about 1K baht a year. WOW! I can rototiller my garden for 40 years.

Why are they so incredibly expensive? Same reason as cars, decent sized motorcycles, and virtually anything that is affordable in Canuckland and Yankland is expensive here. Tariffs. It's the trade-off of living here. Some things are really cheap (labor) and some things are really expensive (I sold my five year old Honda Accord at above blue book price in Yankland and could have gotten twice the amount here in the LOS -- shrug, smile).

Canuckamuck. My guess is you've lived here a long time so I sure you understand this: I invest in people and labor. If you buy the expensive rototiller and amortize it over even 10 years, you're way ahead here in Thailand by hiring people and investing in your local community. If I was back in Yankland or Canuckland, I'd buy and use the rototiller which in the long-run would be cheaper. Or you may just love using a rototiller for the fun of it. In that case I'd say, "Go For It"

I used human labor the first year I was here but not since. I work in grass clippings, fertilizer and compost in the off growing season to make sure the soil is ready. But, I guess it also depends on how much land is used for planting too. Also, I grow fruit and vegetables because I enjoy it and it's rewarding exercise too. The biggest advantage of a roto tiller, at least for me, is the ground is broken up into very fine pieces. When I used human labor, most was chunks the size of apples.

As a long time motorcycle rider, I used to do all my own work on my Harley, both for aesthetic reasons and for performance. It just gave me more self satisfaction to know I had done it all myself. I know a lot of guys that preferred to take their motorcycles to shops and have the work done. it's certainly faster that way and easier. But, that is a result of growing up when Daddy did all the garden work himself and took a lot of pride and self satisfaction that he had done it himself.

But, to each their own. When I am out cutting my lawn with a push mower, I have a farang neighbor that keeps telling me to hire a Thai to do it.

[kuma]

Good day - hoping to resurrect this old thread, with a twist.

Have some land (248 TW) in Chan and would like to find a company that has a tiller and would come round and do the job. Wondering if any members know this area and have a contact that I could call.

Just bought the land, before starting doing things with it would like to do a good till and turn it all up, likely this land was never before inhabited so it has been settled for .... who knows.

Cheers

[IsaanAussie]

On 7/3/2020 at 5:36 PM, kuma said:

Good day - hoping to resurrect this old thread, with a twist.

Have some land (248 TW) in Chan and would like to find a company that has a tiller and would come round and do the job. Wondering if any members know this area and have a contact that I could call.

Just bought the land, before starting doing things with it would like to do a good till and turn it all up, likely this land was never before inhabited so it has been settled for .... who knows.

Cheers

Take a drive around and find a rice (or vegetable) farming area. Someone will have a tractor and implements that will not be busy at the moment, everyone will know someone. If you want the ground turned over deeply, get them to plough it first then rotary hoe (rotovator). 

As a guide, here in Sisaket we pay 200 baht per rai for each. You will have to pay more probably and for any distance the tractor has to travel.

[kuma]

On 7/5/2020 at 9:48 AM, IsaanAussie said:

Take a drive around and find a rice (or vegetable) farming area. Someone will have a tractor and implements that will not be busy at the moment, everyone will know someone. If you want the ground turned over deeply, get them to plough it first then rotary hoe (rotovator). 

As a guide, here in Sisaket we pay 200 baht per rai for each. You will have to pay more probably and for any distance the tractor has to travel.

IA, thank for the reply. I forgot to turn on notifications so just seeing this now. Appreciate the response and the price point, good to know.

I have tried just as you mentioned, we have got a few quotes now, all in around 4000THB for the 248 TW. A LOT more than you are quoting for Sisaket, but pretty consistent - and they dont know of each other. The land is so small seems no one is interested as they need to haul the tractor in do the work and leave - so they seem to want a day rate and that is 4000 around here it appears.

Given your input, we are going to look around a little more though - see if we can do better.

Cheers, enjoy your day

[kickstart]

If you want to plough the land around here it is 400-450 baht/rie for a big 3 disc plough ,about 250-300 for a 7 disc plough/rie.

A rotavator not certain ,but about 200 baht/rie, again around here it is getting competitive ,with pickups going around with trailers  towing drills, sprayers, some with rotavators on the back ,farmers try to earn a bit more by going contracting ,and help pay for there tractors and equipment. 

[kuma]

On 7/8/2020 at 8:44 PM, kickstart said:

If you want to plough the land around here it is 400-450 baht/rie for a big 3 disc plough ,about 250-300 for a 7 disc plough/rie.

A rotavator not certain ,but about 200 baht/rie, again around here it is getting competitive ,with pickups going around with trailers  towing drills, sprayers, some with rotavators on the back ,farmers try to earn a bit more by going contracting ,and help pay for there tractors and equipment. 

Kickstart, thanks for the reply. Where is around here, what province are you in? Seems the prices here in Chanthaburi are much more than I have seen quoted from you and the OP above - but I do have to say the soil here is much more dense, a wet clay and very hard packed so not the same as the soil say at the land we have in Surin. That could explain the cost difference, but my quotes are much higher than what I see here.

To be clear as well, the idea is they will go down 30-50 cm and turn the soil to aerate it - not sure if the rotovator does that.

Latest quote I received was 600THB /hr, but he will not commit to how any hours it will take so it is a toss now between that and the two other quotes, one 4000 THB and the other 4600 THB. 

Appreciate the reply, cheers

[kickstart]

13 hours ago, kuma said:

Kickstart, thanks for the reply. Where is around here, what province are you in? Seems the prices here in Chanthaburi are much more than I have seen quoted from you and the OP above - but I do have to say the soil here is much more dense, a wet clay and very hard packed so not the same as the soil say at the land we have in Surin. That could explain the cost difference, but my quotes are much higher than what I see here.

To be clear as well, the idea is they will go down 30-50 cm and turn the soil to aerate it - not sure if the rotovator does that.

Latest quote I received was 600THB /hr, but he will not commit to how any hours it will take so it is a toss now between that and the two other quotes, one 4000 THB and the other 4600 THB. 

Appreciate the reply, cheers

I am in Lopburi province ,the soil should not make much difference ,we have all soi types around still the same price.

Why do you want to go down so deep,30-50 cm is deep  that is almost subsoiler depth, a rotavator  or a plough will not go down to that depth ,

What you need is something like this cultivator , this one is not so good but it gives you an idea of what to look for ,that would open the land up a lot more than a plough  rotavator ,if you can find one , Thai's are not great users of any tined implements cost should be the same as a 3 disc plough,if the guy does the job right ,then go in with a rotavator ,at a death of no more than 6-8 inches (20.32 cm) ,that should do you for a seed-bed 

[kuma]

3 hours ago, kickstart said:

I am in Lopburi province ,the soil should not make much difference ,we have all soi types around still the same price.

Why do you want to go down so deep,30-50 cm is deep  that is almost subsoiler depth, a rotavator  or a plough will not go down to that depth ,

What you need is something like this cultivator , this one is not so good but it gives you an idea of what to look for ,that would open the land up a lot more than a plough  rotavator ,if you can find one , Thai's are not great users of any tined implements cost should be the same as a 3 disc plough,if the guy does the job right ,then go in with a rotavator ,at a death of no more than 6-8 inches (20.32 cm) ,that should do you for a seed-bed 

Hey thanks for that. I am looking for exactly something like in the photo. I mentioned 30-50cm as that was what they said they would do. But the turn i would get from this cultivator is what i had in mind, or from the 3-5 disk plough. 

Just called another ploughman, but he said no as the trip was too far for the size of the job. Looks like i am left with the quotes i found and will have to go with that. Its a one time event as the plan is to live on it so guess will go ahead.

I could grab some hand tools and go at it myself, but lol, nah....

Appreciate the responses, cheers

[IsaanAussie]

17 hours ago, kuma said:

Latest quote I received was 600THB /hr

If you can get what you want at this rate, why not? Against the Ozzie dollar that's $30 an hour. I couldn't get my lawn mowed back home for that, and then only if the guy was using my mower and fuel.

[kuma]

On 7/10/2020 at 5:40 PM, IsaanAussie said:

If you can get what you want at this rate, why not? Against the Ozzie dollar that's $30 an hour. I couldn't get my lawn mowed back home for that, and then only if the guy was using my mower and fuel.

Well discussions of economic relativity between Thailand and Aus aside, yes intent is to get the job I want done, and at the market price. 

Have an excavator with a 60cm bucket coming to do a toss and level, down 0.5m. This is the village local guy working on the clock with no quoted maximum. So good chance to test our stanfing in the neighbourhood as well.

Other quotes were 4000 and 4800 so interested to see how this shakes out in the end. The ground is solid so they say thats minimum size unit that can get into the soil. Maybe I can get some video to post

 

[IsaanAussie]

Good luck Kuma, not that you will need it.

From my experience just get done what you want, first time isn't it, apologize and ask them to go again. When you have what you wanted, smile and pay the man without question.

[kuma]

12 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

Good luck Kuma, not that you will need it.

From my experience just get done what you want, first time isn't it, apologize and ask them to go again. When you have what you wanted, smile and pay the man without question.

Yea that is the local way, so lets see. Trying to sleep now and go witness the dig....see whats under there, adjust outcome as we go to make sure its a one and done, and have a beer and some fun!

Tough thou, usually sleep at 07:00-14:00, so need to reverse for the day...if I can.