Zoomer X Engine Mod - 40% Increase In Power

[freedomnow]

Am I getting torque mixed up with top speed ?

My shop says they can remove the entire Honda "arm" that attaches to back wheel and order a mod from Bangkok that gives 40% more power.

Would that just translate to going up hills easier and faster but nor raising the top speed ?

CONFUSED !

[eezergood]

Nitrous?

[commande]

Your not the only one confused - power to me is measured in Horse Power and or Torque which are both produced by the Engine and has nothing to do with modifying the transmission or drive train which in this case is a belt drive with a variator.

Edited May 2, 2013 by commande

[thaicbr]

Op.. your shop is just talking about a higher variator that allows the bike to go faster.. should not be to expensive.. also 40% faster.... hahaha NO.

[freedomnow]

Yes, the boss and owner of the heavily modded bike was not there.....I could see :-

the liquid cooling conversion below (silver like a small exhaust).

A blue box (top left) which the worker tried to explain given his limited English and my limited Thai..

and he pointed to the Honda arm on the rear wheel which was fully replaced (metallic green and red) to give the "40% power boost".

Edited May 2, 2013 by freedomnow

[BSJ]

"the liquid cooling conversion below (silver like a small exhaust)."

Cunningly disguised as an after market air filter. Very clever those chaps.

[freedomnow]

OK, air filter.

Like I said I'm trying to find out what is what as I'm new to motorbikes.

[commande]

I have no idea what that blue box is but there is nothing on the Constructors Racing Group website showing that devise. The silver thing is definitely an after market air intake which really doesn't do anything but make the intake louder. That flexible hose going from the air intake pipe into the Blue Box and then coming out the other side, no idea what that thing does.

I think most will agree though, only way your going to get 40% more power is by adding a Turbo or add Nitrous (not even sure it's available in Thailand) and that would most likely require a complete engine rebuild with stronger components. Your only looking at maybe 8-12 horse power stock power anyway, add 40% to that, not really impressive. There are some Thai shops out there though that make some seriously fast scooters, they do as I stated though, they rebuild the engine completely and they use chain driven motorbikes, change the sprockets around and such. You can't really do anything with a scooter that has an variator. You can change the variator weights but you will suffer one way or the other, either faster off the line and slower top speed or slower off the line and higher top speed. Both options though are not really that good.

See if you can get some further information on it, maybe a diagram or something, would be interested in what that thing does or if it's just bling. New stuff comes out all the time, maybe this is one of those miracle devices but I have my doubts...

One thing you can ask him if he is claiming 40% more power is that he show you the before and after Dyno test performed to back up his statement. This normally makes most walk away because they know they can't prove anything, selling snake oil to cure cancer....

Edited May 2, 2013 by commande

[candypants]

why go to all that trouble for a zoomer x?

not being facetious, i really don't get it.

40 percent of slow, is still slow

Edited May 2, 2013 by candypants

[freedomnow]

Commande, I'll be going back to the place anyway to find out. Just interested as a complete newbie to scooters and just wanted to check if he was talking c*** about the power boost.

Yes, Candypants lots of faster bikes out there. I just love these fun zoomers right now before moving on later and they do shift from the lights OK considering they are only 108 cc........Just interested in the mod scene that has popped up. Baby power for the Ducatti owners, but I'd rather not go on anything superbike right now.

[frankphuket]

...and you know you can boost another 20-30% if you put better grips on the handlebar....they will rotate faster and therefore the motorbike will be faster.....lol

but joke aside, let's give the OP some slag, don't want to scare off newbies. There is no such thing as a dumb question....(well, almost). Anyway, just in general be really realistic of what people claim about their products (ex.: This stereo box makes 5000W, etc, etc.) especially here in Thailand where there is not much in terms of consumer products control. Use common sense and you are off to a good start....

[eezergood]

will be interesting to see what that magic blue box is claiming to do, that aside can someone recomend gas shocks for Nuovo Elegance? In Phuket if possible?

[freedomnow]

Thanks for input and mocking of newbie. I asked another scooter place what the blue box was, no joy. I will take my Thai g/f back to the original modded scooter and see what it is though he maybe said liquid cooling...

The Pegasus mod ?

[commande]

Thanks for input and mocking of newbie. I asked another scooter place what the blue box was, no joy. I will take my Thai g/f back to the original modded scooter and see what it is though he maybe said liquid cooling...

The Pegasus mod ?

Now that is definitely only useful for show, would hate to ride that around town, no suspension at all.

[Turkleton]

My shop says they can remove the entire Honda "arm" that attaches to back wheel

Well, the left "arm" doesn't include just the "transmission", but also the engine...

It is one "case".

A 40% increase in power is more than easy to realize. Peanuts...

The Zoomer engine is basically the old Scoopy/Icon/etc. engine, many tuning parts around.

A decent, moderate "Big Bore" kit, let's say 150-160 cc, a "Racing Cam" maybe in combination with bigger valves, adapted variator and fuel-injection.

And there you go.

These "Mods" can increase the power far more than just 40%....

Remember, there are 300cc Finos around, which have a 200% increase of power

Edited May 3, 2013 by Turkleton

[BirdsandBooze]

A 40% increase in horsepower of the Zoomer X would still leave it with less than 12 HP. I rode a Zoomer X and didn't see more than 95kph on the speedo and I doubt a 40% increase in power would translate to a 40% higher speed. It's not the sort of vehicle I'd like to travel on at high speed. Large increases in power, especially on small engines, usually meanless durability which equals less reliability, to say nothing of poor rideability.

[BirdsandBooze]

The blue box connected to the air intake line may well be a water/methanol injection kit. The purpose of such an installation is to use atomised liquid to cool the intake air, increasing density and thus reducing detonation and increasing octane rating. Although primarily used on supercharged and turbocharged engines they've also found a use in tuned, naturally aspirated gasoline engines. The technology isn't new and is relatively simple and was used on WW2 aircraft engines to increase operational altitude limits.

[Turkleton]

A 40% increase in horsepower of the Zoomer X would still leave it with less than 12 HP. I rode a Zoomer X and didn't see more than 95kph on the speedo and I doubt a 40% increase in power would translate to a 40% higher speed.

I think, the top speed is not the goal, but the acceleration....

Who, with a little bit brain, wants to go more than 100 km/h with this "Dwarf-bike"?

I own a Mio "125" (semi-dwarf bike) with some of the above mentioned Mods.

I never tried to reach the top speed, always canceled at 120-130 on the speedometer.

But it's a real fun to ride this bike and the acceleration with two people, is now better than with one person on the "Stock" Mio 125.

Reliability, etc...pp?

Who cares, if this bikes lasts 20000 or 40000 Km.

Hey, this is about modifying/tuning a bike...let's talk about the "emotional / adrenaline effect"

Edited May 4, 2013 by Turkleton

[commande]

A 40% increase in horsepower of the Zoomer X would still leave it with less than 12 HP. I rode a Zoomer X and didn't see more than 95kph on the speedo and I doubt a 40% increase in power would translate to a 40% higher speed.

I think, the top speed is not the goal, but the acceleration....

Who, with a little bit brain, wants to go more than 100 km/h with this "Dwarf-bike"?

I own a Mio "125" (semi-dwarf bike) with some of the above mentioned Mods.

I never tried to reach the top speed, always canceled at 120-130 on the speedometer.

But it's a real fun to ride this bike and the acceleration with two people, is now better than with one person on the "Stock" Mio 125.

Reliability, etc...pp?

Who cares, if this bikes lasts 20000 or 40000 Km.

Hey, this is about modifying/tuning a bike...let's talk about the "emotional / adrenaline effect"

Adrenaline - Nitrous all the way, best bang for the money. Have never seen it in Thailand though, if it was available I would think there would be a whole lot of people lined up for it and the grim reaper waiting to collect many more dead bodies. It's nice to hit that button though, better yet the computer controlled staged versions are great, no button, based on your computer controller programming. Twist the throttle and go baby go!!!!

Not sure where you would put the tank for the gas though LOL... Would be like rolling on a rocket ship waiting to explode.

Edited May 4, 2013 by commande

[loserlazer]

Nitrous is available in thailand. They install it to scooters here.

There is a honda click 110 modified to the moon at thw parking lot of my office and under the foot board you can see the small nitrous tank under a transparent plastic panel. Also the owner added a new long swingarm.

It looks good but i dont think so it will last long.

Edited May 4, 2013 by loserlazer

[BirdsandBooze]

A 40% increase in horsepower of the Zoomer X would still leave it with less than 12 HP. I rode a Zoomer X and didn't see more than 95kph on the speedo and I doubt a 40% increase in power would translate to a 40% higher speed.

I think, the top speed is not the goal, but the acceleration....

Who, with a little bit brain, wants to go more than 100 km/h with this "Dwarf-bike"?

I own a Mio "125" (semi-dwarf bike) with some of the above mentioned Mods.

I never tried to reach the top speed, always canceled at 120-130 on the speedometer.

But it's a real fun to ride this bike and the acceleration with two people, is now better than with one person on the "Stock" Mio 125.

Reliability, etc...pp?

Who cares, if this bikes lasts 20000 or 40000 Km.

Hey, this is about modifying/tuning a bike...let's talk about the "emotional / adrenaline effect"

Emotional and adrenaline in the same sentence about a Zoomer X. Now I've heard it all

[Turkleton]

Emotional and adrenaline in the same sentence about a Zoomer X. Now I've heard it all

Maybe, you should read my post again.....

[VocalNeal]

Adrenaline - Nitrous all the way, best bang for the money. Have never seen it in Thailand though, if it was available I would think there would be a whole lot of people lined up for it and the grim reaper waiting to collect many more dead bodies. It's nice to hit that button though, better yet the computer controlled staged versions are great, no button, based on your computer controller programming. Twist the throttle and go baby go!!!!

Not sure where you would put the tank for the gas though LOL... Would be like rolling on a rocket ship waiting to explode.

I'm a bit confused about this. Nitrous oxide is N2O. There is nothing there to burn. So injecting nitrous oxide into an engine does nothing. In order to get more power you have to inject more fuel along with the extra oxygen that nitrous oxide provides. Unless of course the engine is running very rich in which case it will normally be producing less HP than it did before.

Simply purchasing a nitrous oxide system for any vehicle without modifying the fuel system will add nothing.

[BSJ]

Thanks for input and mocking of newbie. I asked another scooter place what the blue box was, no joy. I will take my Thai g/f back to the original modded scooter and see what it is though he maybe said liquid cooling...

The Pegasus mod ?

At 287 posts your not a newby anymore!

With the small Nitros tank on a bike what are you going to get? A maximum of 10 seconds of crazy power......then nothing......

[Spoonman]

Adrenaline - Nitrous all the way, best bang for the money. Have never seen it in Thailand though, if it was available I would think there would be a whole lot of people lined up for it and the grim reaper waiting to collect many more dead bodies. It's nice to hit that button though, better yet the computer controlled staged versions are great, no button, based on your computer controller programming. Twist the throttle and go baby go!!!!

Not sure where you would put the tank for the gas though LOL... Would be like rolling on a rocket ship waiting to explode.

I'm a bit confused about this. Nitrous oxide is N2O. There is nothing there to burn. So injecting nitrous oxide into an engine does nothing. In order to get more power you have to inject more fuel along with the extra oxygen that nitrous oxide provides. Unless of course the engine is running very rich in which case it will normally be producing less HP than it did before.

Simply purchasing a nitrous oxide system for any vehicle without modifying the fuel system will add nothing.

Generally nitrous systems also come with the means to add the extra fuel.

[freedomnow]

Thanks for input and mocking of newbie. I asked another scooter place what the blue box was, no joy. I will take my Thai g/f back to the original modded scooter and see what it is though he maybe said liquid cooling...

The Pegasus mod ?

At 287 posts your not a newby anymore!

With the small Nitros tank on a bike what are you going to get? A maximum of 10 seconds of crazy power......then nothing......

Newbie to all things 2-wheeled with a motor.....thus mistaking the air filter for the super turbo boost.

[VocalNeal]

Generally nitrous systems also come with the means to add the extra fuel.

Might do on a hi-end kit for a Fast and Furious type car but for a scooter here in Thailand? I do have my cynical moments but hey I've been surprised before.

I just wouldn't want someone to part with money for a NOx system without realizing what they are buying.

Edited May 5, 2013 by VocalNeal

[Spoonman]

Generally nitrous systems also come with the means to add the extra fuel.

Might do on a hi-end kit for a Fast and Furious type car but for a scooter here in Thailand? I do have my cynical moments but hey I've been surprised before.

I just wouldn't want someone to part with money for a NOx system without realizing what they are buying.

ok, you do understand what kit means yeah ?

[brfsa2]

All of those honda automatic bikes come with a restricted ECU that limits the revolution, it's call Rev Limiter.

Honda 110-125cc bikes are limited to 6,000 RPM.

On those such small bikes, all modifications such as better air filter, will only give you more starting torque, and more responsiveness... but as soon as you hit the 95-100Km/h that's the end of it.

You cannot get more speed, unless you reprogram the ECU to allow it to higher rpm, I've seen a video on youtube of a honda reprogrammed 125cc going to 9500 RPM on a dyno. And of course, your engine will last 1/3 of it's life.

Edited May 7, 2013 by brfsa2

[VocalNeal]

All of those honda automatic bikes come with a restricted ECU that limits the revolution, it's call Rev Limiter.

Honda 110-125cc bikes are limited to 6,000 RPM.

On those such small bikes, all modifications such as better air filter, will only give you more starting torque, and more responsiveness... but as soon as you hit the 95-100Km/h that's the end of it.

You cannot get more speed, unless you reprogram the ECU to allow it to higher rpm, I've seen a video on youtube of a honda reprogrammed 125cc going to 9500 RPM on a dyno. And of course, your engine will last 1/3 of it's life.

I'm at a loss what as to say about such casual disinformation.

Even a cursory search would have discovered that Honda Scoopy, Zoomer-X can, if allowed, produce in excess of 8.31 HP (6.1 kW)) @ 8000 RPM (http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_vision_110_2012.php) so obviously not limited to 6000. ( I have a dyno graph of a stock bike at 8.5 hp)

An old PCX125 and new Click ESP are limited but at 9300. ( In USA/EU at least. No info in Thailand) I say this because reported top speeds are higher here than in USA/EU.

As for life expectancy there are literally hundreds of thousands of old Hondas running around.

I have seen an old PCX and talked to the owner, it turns at 11,000 rpm. I had a modified Honda Wave that broke a digital tach. because the tach only went to 9999!