Chinese Incursion Leaves India On Verge Of Crisis

[News_Editor]

A commander walks past the honor guard ahead of French President Francois Hollande and his companion Valerie Trierweiler’s arrival on a two-day state visit in Beijing on April 25, 2013. (Photo: Reuters / Petar Kujundzic)

NEW DELHI — The platoon of Chinese soldiers slipped across the boundary into India in the middle of the night, according to Indian officials. They were ferried across the bitterly cold moonscape in Chinese army vehicles, then got out to traverse a dry creek bed with a helicopter hovering overhead for protection.

They finally reached their destination and pitched a tent in the barren Depsang Valley in the Ladakh region, a symbolic claim of sovereignty deep inside Indian-held territory. So stealthy was the operation that India did not discover the incursion until a day later, Indian officials said.

China denies any incursion, but Indian officials say that for two weeks, the soldiers have refused to move back over the so-called Line of Actual Control that divides Indian-ruled territory from Chinese-run land, leaving the government on the verge of a crisis with its powerful northeastern neighbor.

Indian officials fear that if they react with force, the face-off could escalate into a battle with the feared People’s Liberation Army. But doing nothing would leave a Chinese outpost deep in territory India has ruled since independence.

“If they have come 19 kilometers into India, it is not a minor LAC violation. It is a deliberate military operation. And even as India protests, more tents have come up,†said Sujit Dutta, a
China specialist at the Jamia Milia Islamia university in New Delhi.

“Clearly, the Chinese are testing India to see how far they can go,†he said.

That is not China’s stated view.

“China strictly complies with the treaty and documents on maintaining peace and stability in the border region between India and China,†Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said last week.

“The Chinese patrol troops did not go across the Line of Actual Control, not by even one step,†she said.

Local army commanders from both sides have held three meetings over the crisis, according to Indian officials. India’s foreign secretary called in the Chinese ambassador to register a strong protest. Yet the troops did not move, and even pitched a second tent, Indian officials said.

The timing of the crisis, weeks before Chinese Premier Li Keqiang is to visit India, has surprised many here. The Chinese leader’s decision to make India his first trip abroad since taking office two months ago had been seen as an important gesture toward strengthening ties between rival powers that have longstanding border disputes but also growing trade relations.

Manoj Joshi, a defense analyst at the New Delhi-based Observer Research Foundation, said the timing of the incursion raises questions about “whether there is infighting within the Chinese leadership, or whether someone is trying to upstage Li.â€

India’s External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid said Wednesday that while he had no plans to cancel a trip to Beijing next week to prepare for Li’s visit, the government could reconsider in the coming week.

“A week is a long time in politics,†he told reporters.

Indian politicians accused the scandal-plagued government of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of floundering in fear before China.

“China realizes that India has a weak government, and a prime minister who is powerless,†said Yashwant Sinha, a former foreign minister from the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party.

He demanded a stronger response. “A bully will back off the moment it realizes that it’s dealing with a country which will not submit to its will,†Sinha said.

Former Defense Minister Mulayam Singh Yadav called the government “cowardly and incompetent.†He warned that China was trying to annex more territory to add to the spoils it took following its victory over India in a brief 1962 border war.

Defense Minister A.K. Antony countered that India is “united in its commitment to take every possible step to safeguard our interests.â€

Supporters of the right-wing Shiv Sena party burned effigies of Singh, Antony and other top officials Wednesday, demanding India retaliate by barring Chinese imports.

China is India’s biggest trading partner, with bilateral trade, heavily skewed in China’s favor, crossing $75 billion in 2011.

Analysts feel linking a troop withdrawal to continued trade could work.

“The Chinese have to learn that such aggression cannot be delinked from trade,†said Dutta.

Though the two countries have held 15 rounds of talks, their border disputes remain unresolved. India says China is occupying 38,000 square kilometers in the Aksai Chin plateau in the western Himalayas, while China claims around 90,000 square kilometers in India’s northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh.

Analysts said they were baffled by Beijing’s motives, since its actions could force India to move closer to Beijing’s biggest rival, the United States.

“The Chinese for some reason don’t seem able to see that,†said Joshi.

China’s aggressive posture could also force India to accelerate its own military modernization program, analysts said.

The stand-off may eventually be resolved diplomatically, “but what it really shows is the PLA’s contempt for our military capability,†former Indian navy chief, Sushil Kumar, wrote in The Indian Express newspaper.

It could also push the government to agree to the army’s longstanding demand to create its own strike corps on the border.

“By needling the Indians, they are helping us to accelerate our modernization,†Joshi said.

Source: Irrawaddy.org

[Publicus]

The CCP-PRC wants a huge area of northern India for a number of reasons, chief among which to create physical space so Beijing can have a more free hand in its forced occupation of Tibet. The Dalai Lama is based on northern India so he and his people are close to Tibet and vice-versa.

In fact India very recently created two new mountain infantry divisions along the PRChina - India border because India anticipated further border aggression by Beijing once Beijing had begun to become aggressive in the South China Sea and against Japan over Japanese owned islands in the East China Sea, near Taiwan, which also has claims there. However, Tokya and Taipei are presently negotiating so Taiwanese fisherman can fish in the areas of the islands without making any territorial claims.

The Philippines last month filed an arbitration petition with the United Nations under the provisions of the International Law of the Sea to stop Beijing's encroachment of Philippine islands in the East Philippine Sea. Beijing now is hollering that the ILOS does not apply and that each of the numerous territorial aggressions it has started with many neighbors need to be settled bilaterally. This is the classic behavior of a bully.

The link addresses the CCCP-PRC aggression of last week against India and the broadly belligerent and bellicose tone and actions of Beijing against its many neighbors north, south, east and west during the past two years especially.

<http://news.google.co.th/news/story?ncl=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323528404578454341420089874.html%3Fmod%3Dgooglenews_wsj&hl=en&geo=th>

[Steely Dan]

I sense China's aggressive actions towards it's neighbors has something to do with big problems brewing for the Chinese economy. In times of domestic strife border wars and territorial disputes are a tried and tested diversionary tactic employed by banana republics and other totalitarian regimes of all shades.

[Sing_Sling]

I sense China's aggressive actions towards it's neighbors has something to do with big problems brewing for the Chinese economy. In times of domestic strife border wars and territorial disputes are a tried and tested diversionary tactic employed by banana republics and other totalitarian regimes of all shades.

That's normally quite true, but the Chinese deny entering Indian territory and it's not in the Chinese media, so there's nothing to gain here, really.

Ah, Pakistan on one side . . . China on the other. How much more comfortable could one be.

[ExpatOilWorker]

I sense China's aggressive actions towards it's neighbors has something to do with big problems brewing for the Chinese economy. In times of domestic strife border wars and territorial disputes are a tried and tested diversionary tactic employed by banana republics and other totalitarian regimes of all shades.

That's normally quite true, but the Chinese deny entering Indian territory and it's not in the Chinese media, so there's nothing to gain here, really.

Ah, Pakistan on one side . . . China on the other. How much more comfortable could one be.

Yes, it is like China is testing the waters, see how it is to get its feet wet in a military conflict. After all The China we know today, has zero military experience and even worse, they see that invading and annexing Tibet is working just fine.

They always deny any wrong doing, but they are courting the population to support a stronger military. I worked in China for a year and you would regularly see a fit looking guy in military uniform on TV, explaining all the glory of the PLA.

PLA is not a nice name for an army, by the way. Peoples Liberation Army, who are they to liberate? The enemy of their life?

Edited May 5, 2013 by ExpatOilWorker

[Publicus]

The People's Liberation Army, which includes all the armed forces of the CCP-PRC, fully intends to "liberate" the world from the "yoke" of democracy in favor of its thousands year old dictatorship, just as soon as it's convinced it's ready to do so. That might perhaps be circa 2030 or so, possibly as soon as 2025.

So the Chinese are in for a big shock - the biggest booming shock of their history, in response. Western military planners and intelligence are well aware of the CCP's Grand Designs on the world. We're presently trying to fatten up the Chinese by increasing their wealth, their standard of living and their quality of life so that they might wise up and instead become a participant in the world of nations. So far, not so good. The fattening is beginning to happen, however, the malevolent designs remain firmly in place.

The PRChinese sheeple are aware of every territorial aggression by Beijing as it is important to the PRChinese psyche to "settle old scores" as numerous CCP cadre stated it to me while I lived and worked in the CCP-PRC. The CCP and the PRChinese sheeple clearly have a million and one "old scores" to settle with just about everyone and anyone, starting with their neighbors in all directions.

"China twitterati fuming against India on Ladakh"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-twitterati-fuming-against-India-on-Ladakh/articleshow/19748364.cms

And here's a link to the op-ed piece which sums up the reaction of the world outside of the CCP-PRC over the latest Beijing aggressive provocation against India - trying to figure out why. I share the general view, which applies in this instance of India, that Beijing is intent on fully upsetting the status quo in East Asia, Southeast Asia and in South Asia. Why? Because Beijing and the PRChinese people well know that before the CCP-PRC can become the global power it is determined to become, it must first become a regional power. To become a regional power, Beijing must subdue Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, Asean, Australia, India. That's what's behind all of this territorial aggression of the past two years, with a lot more to come unless we immediately smack Beijing between the eyes with a 2 x 4.

"China will not benefit from confrontation with India: James Steinberg, Former US Deputy Secretary of State"

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-05-02/news/38983552_1_south-china-sea-asian-security-summit-india-and-japan

Edited May 5, 2013 by Publicus

[Sing_Sling]

"China twitterati fuming against India on Ladakh"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-twitterati-fuming-against-India-on-Ladakh/articleshow/19748364.cms

Clearly I was wrong in saying that:

the Chinese deny entering Indian territory and it's not in the Chinese media,

Apologies, Steely Dan and thanks, Publicus, for bringing that to my attention

[Sing_Sling]

That's what's behind all of this territorial aggression of the past two years, with a lot more to come unless we immediately smack Beijing between the eyes with a 2 x 4.

Though I agree with your assertion that China needs to become a real military regional power first, before spreading its wings, I disagree that we need to whack 'em with a 2x4 . . . aside form the fact that we'd get very, very tired swinging that thing 1.4 billion times . . . the place will implode soon enough all by itself, a la the former USSR or Yugoslavia.

Whether it is through greed or the widening chasm between haves and have nots, the massive divide between urban and rural or simply party politics . . . the biggest problem will be dealing with hundreds of millions of Chinese getting out of Dodge and heading our way . . . Oz 24 million people? Hahahaha . . . we're a rounding error to them

Edited May 5, 2013 by Sing_Sling

[VocalNeal]

India should go around and erect some tents behind them where they think the border should be? They were "caught asleep at the switch".

[justathought]

India has a lot of problems. With its occupation and brutal rule in Kashmir and now China. India does not have a friendly neighbor. Sad for India

[Publicus]

Beijing has decided to retreat from its aggression against India in the Depsang Valley in the Ladakh region. India had seriously been considering canceling the previously scheduled trip of its foreign minister to Beijing next month. Additionally, the CCP-PRC has been acting with such aggression against its neighbors, to include threats against Russia, that it had destroyed it's claims to a "peaceful rise" in the modern world.

It's also believed that hard-liners in the CCP and the PLA in Beijing had pulled a fast one against the new CCP leader Xi Jinping when they slipped troops across the Line of Actual Control which demarcates the tenuous border each side has disagreed on since Indian independence after World War II. Further, Japan and India earlier this year held joint naval exercises off the coast of Japan, which also is the target of Beijing's bogus territorial disputes throughout the region.

The heat on Beijing because of this new military aggression simply became too much, so out the PLA soldiers have gone from inside India's border territory. The CCP-PRC wants most of northern India's border province to further insulate it from its forced occupation of Tibet. The Dalai Lama, who is based in northern India, remains an inspiration to the Tibetans, who are being displaced in the cities of their own land by the Han.

This is the reality in South Asia, Southeast Asia, East Asia and eastern Russia regardless of what the half-yuan above says.

China-India face-off ends as armies withdraw from Ladakh

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/China-India-face-off-ends-as-armies-withdraw-from-Ladakh/articleshow/19899731.cms

Edited May 5, 2013 by Publicus

[balloon chaser]

The world has built this monster and it's going to pay the price one day.

[geriatrickid]

India has a lot of problems. With its occupation and brutal rule in Kashmir and now China. India does not have a friendly neighbor. Sad for India

It has its friend Iran,

India’s Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai says his country will continue buying oil from Iran despite economic sanctions imposed against Tehran over the country’s nuclear energy program. "We will continue to buy oil from Iran," The Economic Times quoted Mathai as saying.

What's this got to do with this? Well, India is not gaining sympathy when it goes against sanctions intended to contain Iran's nuclear program. It is no secret that Pakistan, India's main adversary provided the technology for the Iranian nuclear program. Currently, Pakistan and India have been sabre rattling and nearly came to blows some months back. I sense China saw a nice opportunity to push the Indians. In the meantime, India, will need help from the west to counter Chinese aggression. Maybe now the Indians will start to appreciate just how dangerous the Chinese are.

[chuckd]

India has a lot of problems. With its occupation and brutal rule in Kashmir and now China. India does not have a friendly neighbor. Sad for India

It has its friend Iran,

India’s Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai says his country will continue buying oil from Iran despite economic sanctions imposed against Tehran over the country’s nuclear energy program. "We will continue to buy oil from Iran," The Economic Times quoted Mathai as saying.

What's this got to do with this? Well, India is not gaining sympathy when it goes against sanctions intended to contain Iran's nuclear program. It is no secret that Pakistan, India's main adversary provided the technology for the Iranian nuclear program. Currently, Pakistan and India have been sabre rattling and nearly came to blows some months back. I sense China saw a nice opportunity to push the Indians. In the meantime, India, will need help from the west to counter Chinese aggression. Maybe now the Indians will start to appreciate just how dangerous the Chinese are.

India has been declared, by the Obama administration, as being exempt from honoring the Iranian oil sanctions. They have no need to gain sympathy from anybody.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Renews Exemptions From Iran Sanctions

By JAY SOLOMON and KEITH JOHNSON

WASHINGTON—The Obama administration reissued waivers that exempt nine countries, including China, India and Turkey, from fully complying with U.S. sanctions targeting Iran's oil exports, as the U.S. attempts to maintain international pressure on Tehran's finances.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Washington granted the exemptions to these countries for reducing their purchases of Iranian oil over the past six months, thereby helping force Tehran to cut its total oil production by one million barrels a day in September and October from a year earlier.

The other countries granted waivers were Malaysia, South Korea, Singapore, South Africa, Sri Lanka and Taiwan. U.S. and European officials said they believe Tehran is losing around $15 billion every quarter in lost oil sales.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323501404578165674023785506.html

[Mosha]

BBC reporting the troops have pulled back.

[Sing_Sling]

India has a lot of problems. With its occupation and brutal rule in Kashmir and now China. India does not have a friendly neighbor. Sad for India

It has its friend Iran,

India’s Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai says his country will continue buying oil from Iran despite economic sanctions imposed against Tehran over the country’s nuclear energy program. "We will continue to buy oil from Iran," The Economic Times quoted Mathai as saying.

What's this got to do with this? Well, India is not gaining sympathy when it goes against sanctions intended to contain Iran's nuclear program. It is no secret that Pakistan, India's main adversary provided the technology for the Iranian nuclear program. Currently, Pakistan and India have been sabre rattling and nearly came to blows some months back. I sense China saw a nice opportunity to push the Indians. In the meantime, India, will need help from the west to counter Chinese aggression. Maybe now the Indians will start to appreciate just how dangerous the Chinese are.

I don;t think India has ever been unaware of the Chinese threat - they have fought several wars with them and lost territory . . . and the left-leaning view of the world also has merit . . . well, it makes sense when seen from their perspective, I believe

[Publicus]

India has a lot of problems. With its occupation and brutal rule in Kashmir and now China. India does not have a friendly neighbor. Sad for India

It has its friend Iran,

India’s Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai says his country will continue buying oil from Iran despite economic sanctions imposed against Tehran over the country’s nuclear energy program. "We will continue to buy oil from Iran," The Economic Times quoted Mathai as saying.

What's this got to do with this? Well, India is not gaining sympathy when it goes against sanctions intended to contain Iran's nuclear program. It is no secret that Pakistan, India's main adversary provided the technology for the Iranian nuclear program. Currently, Pakistan and India have been sabre rattling and nearly came to blows some months back. I sense China saw a nice opportunity to push the Indians. In the meantime, India, will need help from the west to counter Chinese aggression. Maybe now the Indians will start to appreciate just how dangerous the Chinese are.

Both the Clinton and the Bush administrations undermined the entire NPT when each gave the okay to India's bomb and sold large amounts of technology and capital equipment to the Indians to further develop their nuclear program. The U.S. meanwhile got nothing in return. Former assistant secretary of defense Lawrence Korb, in the first link below, pointed out that, for the United States, India is the 'gift that keeps on taking'. This applies to the current Iran embargoes and sanctions.

Yes, while the Japanese and Asean recently have realized that the CCP-PRC is in reality everyone's neighbor from hell, the Indians have not. India is sure they can reason together with Beijing. This wrongheadedness is consistent with India's coddling of the former Soviet Union during the Cold War (perhaps the First Cold War). Throughout the Cold War India's socialist Congress party's perpetual government kissed Moscow's ring while always showing the cold shoulder to the U.S. and its Asian allies. India came out on the loser side of the Cold War, so it's learned nothing from the experience - zero.

India simply is a moth to the flame of any big deal government in the region which has a political economy that is state and corporate, whose government is totalitarian or authoritarian.

Some moron from an island Western country in this region said to me several years ago, "So the United States finally discovered India," when the fact is India consistently wants as little as possible to do with the United States, as evidenced by India's warm Cold War relations with Moscow while clearly distancing itself from the U.S. The present Indian bone-headed approach towards the CCP-PRC is intended to be only slightly different.

So I'm afraid, frankly speaking, the Indians are dense.

The link below points this out in less strident terms than does this post. Its co-author, Lawrence Korb is a person I'd met and had good discussions with while I worked in Washington; he was an assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration. (A Reaganaught he is not.) Korb's point in the linked op-ed is that India is an unreliable "strategic partner" but does share some common interests with the U.S., so the U.S. should best pursue the few common interests that exist. Beijing meanwhile increasingly will show its unreliability to India, altho it's dubious India will ever get it.

http://www.e-ir.info/2012/06/14/us-indian-relations-permanent-interests-not-permanent-friends/

This next link further illustrates Prez Obama's wrongheaded imaginings that India and the United States are "natural friends" and allies. Prez Bush before him suffered under the same fantasies. As Korb accurately and realistically points out, the U.S. continually provides gifts to India that keep on taking.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/india-has-no-better-friend-than-us-obama/415359/

Edited May 6, 2013 by Publicus

[Sing_Sling]

^ Publicus, I believe a major influence on the Indian situation was the US' embrace of Pakistan as an ally, so it isn't as cut and dried as you out it . . .

The friend of my enemy . . . and all that

[Publicus]

^ Publicus, I believe a major influence on the Indian situation was the US' embrace of Pakistan as an ally, so it isn't as cut and dried as you out it . . .

The friend of my enemy . . . and all that

Thanks for your incisive comment. It provides an occasion for me to address the valid point(s) you make.

As Korb points out in his op-ed, the U.S. has successfully been promoting India-Afghan ties that are of vital importance to India, to include some signed treaties with more to come. India knows the U.S. and Pakistan are tentative and tenuous allies, if we're allies at all. Nonetheless, the U.S. contact and interaction with both India and Pakistan makes it a good bridge between the two, as there is continuing quiet diplomacy among the three governments.

The U.S. swiftly condemned the terrorist attacks against both the Indian parliament building and in Mumbai, providing valuable intelligence to augment Indian intelligence in the two recent high profile attacks. And India knows the U.S. is a strong counter weight to terrorism in Pakistan which also is Beijing's great pal and buddy government. The U.S. has a daily highest level contact with the Paksitan government that is impossible for India to have, and vice-versa.

India's focus is to get more than tea and sympathy from Beijing concerning Paksitan, which is going to leave New Delhi decidedly wanting, as they eventually will discover (or should discover - not sure India has the smarts to discover much it doesn't like concerning an authoritarian corporate militarist state of the region).

Edited May 6, 2013 by Publicus

[kurnell]

Send Chuck Norris in to sort them out

[geriatrickid]

Perhaps this may encourage some of China's immediate neighbours to appreciate China's expansionist policies. It appears that only Vietnam has the nads to stand up to China. I think that within the nest 25 years we will see Laos absorbed into China and Cambodia close behind. Both Burma and Thailand may see the Chinese territorial creep. China needs the resources to sustain its billion + and growing population. It is a country that will soon have consumed everything its land can give it and will expand in search of resources especially water, oil, timber and minerals.

To date, China has used its former colonial occupiers' history as a guide, purchasing by any means possible access to resources in Africa and PNG. It has made some heavy duty purchases of Canadian energy assets, as Canadian capitalists rub their hands in glee at the large sums of cash coming their way, even though China has hacked Canadian government data systems and has an extensive spy network in North America stealing industrial secrets and exploiting the North American greed for foreign student money or wealthy immigrants. The litttle foray into India is nothing but a minor component of a master expansion plan that will see China nibble away at its borders meter by meter.

[Payboy]

Send Chuck Norris in to sort them out

They have Jackie Chan.

[Publicus]

Perhaps this may encourage some of China's immediate neighbours to appreciate China's expansionist policies. It appears that only Vietnam has the nads to stand up to China. I think that within the nest 25 years we will see Laos absorbed into China and Cambodia close behind. Both Burma and Thailand may see the Chinese territorial creep. China needs the resources to sustain its billion + and growing population. It is a country that will soon have consumed everything its land can give it and will expand in search of resources especially water, oil, timber and minerals.

To date, China has used its former colonial occupiers' history as a guide, purchasing by any means possible access to resources in Africa and PNG. It has made some heavy duty purchases of Canadian energy assets, as Canadian capitalists rub their hands in glee at the large sums of cash coming their way, even though China has hacked Canadian government data systems and has an extensive spy network in North America stealing industrial secrets and exploiting the North American greed for foreign student money or wealthy immigrants. The litttle foray into India is nothing but a minor component of a master expansion plan that will see China nibble away at its borders meter by meter.

Even the CCP privately calls it "lebensraum," not daring to utter the word in public (Hitler's word for "living space" for the German people of the time - literally, "living room"). The CCP however sees more lebensraum in places such as Australia, the United States, Russia among others than in SE Asia. Still, the CCP continues to view SE Asia as another area to "incorporate" by more quiet economic methods than it used in Tibet or XinJiang. Lebensraum is real in the CCP-PRC - there's one peninsula in NE China that is smaller than Texas but has more people than the United States. (One can't really comprehend 1,300,000,000 people without living among them all.)

Typical of Chinese thinking, they believe Hitler failed because the Germans were too few, Germany too small, therefore not powerful enough, and just not the master race. You might want to check out the following link which speaks forthrightly to this point:

http://en.epochtimes...-8-8/31055.html

In addition Beijing is trying to use its own bone-headed conception of "soft power" via the more than 300 Confucious Institutes it's opened globally, to include a large number in North America and Europe. The deal at the N American and European univerisities is that they get big bucks to open a Confucious Institute and the universities allow the Institutes to censor any teaching Beijing doesn't like, such as the Tianamen Square Massacre of 1989 and so much else. Your accurate statements about the energy and "livingspace" needs of the CCP needs to be enhanced by greater information about the pernicious Confucian Institutes, if you don't have the awareness already - I don't know.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/us/critics-worry-about-influence-of-chinese-institutes-on-us-campuses.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I haven't seen the Canadian or any governments of Europe take any action to stop the nefarious censorship and propaganda purposes of the Conficious Institutes. Some academics on each continent have spoken out strongly.

Prez Obama on the other hand had the Justice Department Bureau of Immigration (and Naturalization) order CCP cadre assigned to the Confucious Institutes to return to the PRChina to apply for new visas at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing, which now takes a very loooong time to process the new applications - as in never. No more visa access at the U.S. Embassy in Canada or in Mexico for the CCP cadre of the Confucious Institutes in the U.S..

[mccw]

You can see china as an empire through the last millenniums and just recent a short 150 odd year down time. They are just getting back to what they are used to. Probably in the gene memory or rebirths of old souls circling around up to the same tricks haha.

Most of the territory around china proper ie SE Asia etc paid respects, taxes or gifts to the Chinese Emperor and there are still big Chinese population dating back hundreds of years in other countries across the region. So there is nothing new or even unnatural about what is going on. Most of these countries boundaries a modern creations anyway so facts on the ground and balance of power is what matters really.

On India, they have nukes so no big war I don't think. Pino , Jap n Thai have historic US back up so if there is a spot of serious strife I think its more likely on a smaller Un connected country in Central Asia then maybe the would dare move on to Vietnam, Loas or Burma. But really I think its more about pressure and wanting the small Nieghbours to fall in to line to do economic deals with them more than be bothered with full scale occupations.

[Publicus]

You can see china as an empire through the last millenniums and just recent a short 150 odd year down time. They are just getting back to what they are used to. Probably in the gene memory or rebirths of old souls circling around up to the same tricks haha.
Most of the territory around china proper ie SE Asia etc paid respects, taxes or gifts to the Chinese Emperor and there are still big Chinese population dating back hundreds of years in other countries across the region. So there is nothing new or even unnatural about what is going on. Most of these countries boundaries a modern creations anyway so facts on the ground and balance of power is what matters really.
On India, they have nukes so no big war I don't think. Pino , Jap n Thai have historic US back up so if there is a spot of serious strife I think its more likely on a smaller Un connected country in Central Asia then maybe the would dare move on to Vietnam, Loas or Burma. But really I think its more about pressure and wanting the small Nieghbours to fall in to line to do economic deals with them more than be bothered with full scale occupations.

The Chinese historically always have been self-isolated and thus out of contact with the real world whichever time in history we look at. It's their own, as you colorfully describe it, self-imaginings that makes them believe they are the central country destined to lord over all the population of the planet.

Occupation of places such as SE Asia is a part of the longer term plan, but even the CCP can't presently put dates to the plan. The CCP believes the key to its survival is to lead the crammed in population of the PRChina off the Mainland, into lebensraum. Lebensraum is the key word and is used only ever so quietly within the tightest circles of the CCP (and as another Marx might say, the CCP certainly does go around in plenty of circles when they're tight!).

The CCP has closely studied Nazi Germany and seeks to avoid its mistakes - the Nazi's principal mistake was of having been impetuous, impatient, i.e., failing to wait to develop its nuclear capabilities, its rockets etc so it could make a sudden devastating strike against both the United States and the then Soviet Union. To the CCP, the Japanese and the Indians are the equivalent of the Jewish people and will get the same treatment, the actual final solution.

The Chinese are starkly and ever so quietly mad. Too much closed history and ghosts of ages past. Edited May 6, 2013 by Publicus

[wellred]

If they tried anything the whole world would turn on them. I don't think they have the resources to fight everyone.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Front page of a magazine I saw in an airport the other day. Not sure what the headline is, but pretty graphic.

[mccw]

^ more than a bit OTT in my opinion

Pub guy I mean

Edited May 7, 2013 by mccw

[Steely Dan]

You can see china as an empire through the last millenniums and just recent a short 150 odd year down time. They are just getting back to what they are used to. Probably in the gene memory or rebirths of old souls circling around up to the same tricks haha.

Perhaps placing a ripe satsuma and some rose petals in a few hundred million spirit houses will do the trick in placating the ancestors. FWIW I think the U.S has well documented economic woes and an administration which looks to be trying to become more isolationist, so China is trying to see what it can get away with whilst the U.S is already trying to disengage from mayhem in the middle east, which shows little sign of abating.

[Publicus]

^ more than a bit OTT in my opinion

Pub guy I mean

Recommended reading:

http://en.epochtimes...-8-8/31055.html