Three Women Missing For Years Found Alive In U S

[SteeleJoe]

Yes Cordero may be more heroic (and personally admirable) but he is not ever going to be an internet meme. Luck of the draw really. Ramsey has resonance. Ramsey entertains. If there was a reward for help in the case, Cordero would have a claim. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

Well, I thought you were talking about who deserved a payday and especially because of class differences...yes?

[Jingthing]

Yes Cordero may be more heroic (and personally admirable) but he is not ever going to be an internet meme. Luck of the draw really. Ramsey has resonance. Ramsey entertains. If there was a reward for help in the case, Cordero would have a claim. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

Well, I thought you were talking about who deserved a payday and especially because of class differences...yes?

Not exactly. Ramsey is famous. Cordero never will be famous. Ramsey videos have started a remix meme. People are mocking Ramsey. Now the world knows about his criminal record. He's going to be known for this the rest of his life. I think he deserves compensation for that kind of exposure. The morality of it is yes ... complicated, but yes elite class people always find a way to get paid for mass media exposure.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[SteeleJoe]

Not exactly. Ramsey is famous. Cordero never will be famous. Ramsey videos have started a remix meme. People are mocking Ramsey. Now the world knows about his criminal record. He's going to be known for this the rest of his life. I think he deserves compensation for that kind of exposure. The morality of it is yes ... complicated, but yes elite class people always find a way to get paid for mass media exposure.

I see. Thanks.

The morality is complicated indeed. And personally, IF "elite class people" always benefit from these morally ambiguous situations, I don't see that as a reason to hope others will too.

As you say, luck of the draw. Ramsey courts attention, gets it and as a result his past is exposed - a past HE is responsible for, not something he is a victim of. I'm not real worried how it works out for him. Cordero doesn't get the same attention and possibly doesn't have anything to hide. I'd like to see him have some good fortune...but luck of the draw either way, for both of them.

[Jingthing]

I never said elite class people "deserve" even more riches for doing nothing. But they get that. So why dump on a poor black man who may have finally found his bankable moment in an obviously crappy life? It's not like he doesn't give value. He IS funny. That can't be denied.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[SteeleJoe]

I never said elite class people "deserve" even more riches for doing nothing. But they get that. So why dump on a poor black man who may have finally found his bankable moment in an obviously crappy life? It's not like he doesn't give value. He IS funny. That can't be denied.

* And I didn't say you said that. On the other hand you said, "All I'm saying is if elite class people people "deserve" that lower class people do as well. " Implicit in that comment sis that whether Ramsey deserves it is conditional on elites deserving it. And now you say Ramsey does deserve it.

* I'm not dumping on anyone. But I don't give anyone credit for being black or poor. (Maybe I have to turn in my Liberal Card for saying that but I judge people by their actions, not their class or race).

* I'm not the least bit interested in his entertainment value (or laughing at him). I think you are forgetting that humor is subjective, so it certainly can be denied that he is funny.

Edited May 9, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Jingthing]

I recognize this is a sensitive topic. However, not only do I want him to make a lot of money out of his moment of fame, I am now PREDICTING it. The American media will not be able to resist this character. He'll be on Letterman. He'll meet a PR image professional who will coach him (for a cut) on how to get a lifetime payday. Ironically it all may end up destroying him, but that's another matter. Cheers.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[SteeleJoe]

I recognize this is a sensitive topic. However, not only do I want him to make a lot of money out of his moment of fame, I am now PREDICTING it. The American media will not be able to resist this character. He'll be on Letterman. He'll meet a PR image professional who will coach him (for a cut) on how to get a lifetime payday. Cheers.

Not sensitive for me. I am thoroughly unbothered. Mr. Ramsey's fate is something I have little concern about, to be honest.

Your prediction is noted and the reasons for it seemingly sound and understood by me. Your desire...not so much.

[lannarebirth]

So what if he's a convicted felon? He's a free man now. I think he deserves a payday now.

A payday for what exactly? For committing a decent act? Surely you'd have done the same without expecting remuneration for it, wouldn't you?

[lannarebirth]

I've read up on this case and neighbors had the police out on several occasions while the girls were there. The police either ignored or failed to follow up on half a dozen complaints over the years. Horrible police work.

http://www.businessinsider.com/clues-in-cleveland-kidnapping-case-2013-5

Maybe too quick to call that?

I've read that the police were there twice, rather than several times, and for unrelated reasons.

That is not what neighbors that have been interviewed say. Also, I am not saying that any given callout would allow for a search warrant that could have brought this ugly affair to a conclusion sooner. I'm saying that a police department that does police work, like looking for patterns might have.

The police in America are worthless now. They are militarized, prevent no crime, only take reports after crime has been committed and usually state at that time to expect no good outcome. They cruise around in their blacked out vehicles in their SWAT team like uniforms and serve only to stalk and entrap law abiding motorists and casual drug users. They are The Pigs once more.

Edited May 9, 2013 by lannarebirth

[maidu]

Why didn't the women figure a way out sooner? I realize they were probably cowed and threatened, but it seems if there was strong resolve in getting out of that house, they could have done it sooner. Perhaps courage and pluck was lacking.

[SteeleJoe]

I've read up on this case and neighbors had the police out on several occasions while the girls were there. The police either ignored or failed to follow up on half a dozen complaints over the years. Horrible police work.

http://www.businessinsider.com/clues-in-cleveland-kidnapping-case-2013-5

Maybe too quick to call that?

I've read that the police were there twice, rather than several times, and for unrelated reasons.

*edited out*

Well, you clearly aren't going to be someone who can view this aspect of the case very rationally given your convictions and prejudices but I am happy to stand corrected; what I read earlier doesn't seem to match what you are saying so I'd like to know the latest - can you give me examples of what the neighbors say? And what patterns should they have been looking for that you know they weren't?

In any case, I'd hardly rule out the possibility of police errors or even negligence. I'd like to see some of evidence of it though...

Edited May 9, 2013 by Scott

[SteeleJoe]

Why didn't the women figure a way out sooner? I realize they were probably cowed and threatened, but it seems if there was strong resolve in getting out of that house, they could have done it sooner. Perhaps courage and pluck was lacking.

That comment shows a fairly remarkable dearth of sensitivity and lack of understanding, knowledge or even thought about what happens in an abduction over the course of such a long period. I can't say one way or the other whether or not the woman displayed the sort of lack you suggest, but I wouldn't care to speculate on it at this point and yours is on pretty weak ground.

[maidu]

Why didn't the women figure a way out sooner? I realize they were probably cowed and threatened, but it seems if there was strong resolve in getting out of that house, they could have done it sooner. Perhaps courage and pluck was lacking.

That comment shows a fairly remarkable dearth of sensitivity and lack of understanding, knowledge or even thought about what happens in an abduction over the course of such a long period. I can't say one way or the other whether or not the woman displayed the sort of lack you suggest, but I wouldn't care to speculate on it at this point and yours is on pretty weak ground.

You don't know and you can't speculate - your own words. Yet, you judge what I surmise about the situation.

[Jingthing]

So what if he's a convicted felon? He's a free man now. I think he deserves a payday now.

A payday for what exactly? For committing a decent act? Surely you'd have done the same without expecting remuneration for it, wouldn't you?

I'm not sure I would have done EXACTLY the same thing but yes I would have helped in the way that made the most sense to me at the time. No I wouldn't expect payment for that. However, if my interviews were immediately picked up and became an instant pop culture meme used for comedic purposes, as happened here, that could definitely change things.

[SteeleJoe]

Why didn't the women figure a way out sooner? I realize they were probably cowed and threatened, but it seems if there was strong resolve in getting out of that house, they could have done it sooner. Perhaps courage and pluck was lacking.

That comment shows a fairly remarkable dearth of sensitivity and lack of understanding, knowledge or even thought about what happens in an abduction over the course of such a long period. I can't say one way or the other whether or not the woman displayed the sort of lack you suggest, but I wouldn't care to speculate on it at this point and yours is on pretty weak ground.

You don't know and you can't speculate - your own words. Yet, you judge what I surmise about the situation.

No, my words were NOT that I can't speculate - clearly anyone can, as you've shown, regardless of facts or knowledge - but that I don't care to. I judge what you say because of what you said and what I - and most people who have done a bit of reading - know of such cases and how there is insufficient cause for you to surmise what you have, especially given it blames the victims for some of what happened to them.

It may be that you are completely right. As I said, I feel it is inappropriate - for a number of reasons that I have outlined - to make the posit that you do.

[JDGRUEN]

An estimated 2000 kids under the age of 18 go missing in the US every day. That's right, every day. Either the aliens are working overtime abducting these kids or there are some really sick folks out there that are kidnapping them. Either way, this case is just the tip of the iceberg.

Although it does little to lessen the tragedy for the families, many are runaways, or dive into the street drug scene or are just missing - sulking for a few days at a friends house for being disciplined by school or parents) but not kidnapped. "Missing' covers a lot of ground.

[JDGRUEN]

His actions in helping these women out is commendable.

However, before we give him sainthood and his own TV show, perhaps reading this might bring some down to reality.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cleveland Hero Was A Repeat Domestic Abuser

Charles Ramsey battered his wife, did prison time for three attacks

MAY 8--The Cleveland man credited with helping free female captives from a house of horrors is a convicted felon whose rap sheet includes three separate domestic violence convictions that resulted in prison terms, court records show.

Charles Ramsey, whose 911 call and subsequent TV interviews have made him a microcelebrity, was once a repeat spousal abuser whose marriage ended in divorce following a 2003 felony conviction for battering his wife.

Ramsey, 43, has said that when he heard captive Amanda Berry screaming and trying to escape from neighbor Ariel Castro’s home on Monday, "I figured it’s a domestic violence dispute.” Ramsey has also reportedly said that he went to help Berry because he “was raised to help women in distress.”

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/cleveland-hero-charles-ramsey-8702415

Sounds like a try at a little redemption - I hope it works

[JDGRUEN]

May the regular TV competition for who has the most barbaric punishment for the perpetrators begin.

No need for any barbaric punishment, man.

Life sentence, with no chance of parole, will suffice. Do you agree ?

And housed in general population, no special protection

In U.S. prisons crimes of this nature do not go over well with many in the prison population -

[JDGRUEN]

So what if he's a convicted felon? He's a free man now. I think he deserves a payday now.

A payday for what exactly? For committing a decent act? Surely you'd have done the same without expecting remuneration for it, wouldn't you?

He has already said - Give any reward to the women... He held up a paycheck and said - I have job and a paycheck - give it to the women... Sounds like a good guy to me...

[NeverSure]

The police say they were there twice, that's true. The neighbors have given various interviews that they had called out the police on more than two occasions:

http://www.alternet.org/5-shocking-revelations-cleveland-kidnapping

And for the record I don't have a prejudice against having a police force. My observations are however they do next to no actual police work on behalf of citizens anymore. Instead they file after the fact reports, promise no good likely outcome and spend the bulk of their time and resources surveilling the law abiding citizenry for petty infractions.

I have to agree that police now spend more time watching the law abiding, such as traffic infractions. Hey, that's where the money is to fund the department. (No I'm not saying they take tea money - never heard of it.)

But I do give the cops a lot of credit for one thing. They WILL wade into danger such as a bank robbery or report of someone threatening with a gun, or any other violent crime and stop it. They will put their lives on the line when a call comes in that something dangerous is going down and they don't give up until they win. Yes they have SWAT teams now, but if time doesn't allow such as a robbery in progress, they wade right in.

Kudos for that.

It does sound like they blew it in this case. Good grief. You'd think they'd dig until they got to the bottom of such reports. They have some 'splainin' to do.

Edited May 9, 2013 by NeverSure

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[scorecard]

And I'll say it again, watch your children every minute, especially in stores, shopping malls etc.

Thailand is no different from any country, kids go missing every day, and many never found.

I'll add an event which happened yesterday in my village, about 5 minutes walk from my house.

- Small daughter (6 yrs old) answers the doorbell (goes outside to the gate) and finds a farang she's never seen before, outside on the footpath at the main sliding gate (gate to the carport of the house).

- Farang asks her (in Thai) to open the gate. Little girl says she will get mummy. Farang says no and quickly starts to walk away.

- Farang turns around, comes back and asks the little girl to let him in so he can come inside the house and talk to mummy (mummy is breath feeding a young baby.)

- Mummy hears most of this conversation and quickly goes outside with ipad and takes a picture of the farang.

- Mummy asks what do you want? Farang hesitates then says : do you know where I can get a taxi to go to XXXXX shopping mall?

- Mummy says no and quickly takes herself and two kids inside, locks the doors, and phones the security office for the village.

- Police contacted quickly and come quickly, take full details, get a soft copy of the photo of the farang.

- Turns out the farang is known to the local police for similar events.

Beware - watch your kids like hawks, never let them out of your sight even for a few seconds in shopping malls etc., tell your kids again and again about not talking to strangers no matter what they look like, what they say, what they offer, tell your kids to report everything to mummy or daddy quickly and make sure your kids feel comfortable to talk to you, make sure your actively listening and showing your kids that your listening and reward them for speaking up, keep gates etc., locked at all times.

Edited May 10, 2013 by scorecard

[Jingthing]

So what if he's a convicted felon? He's a free man now. I think he deserves a payday now.

A payday for what exactly? For committing a decent act? Surely you'd have done the same without expecting remuneration for it, wouldn't you?

He has already said - Give any reward to the women... He held up a paycheck and said - I have job and a paycheck - give it to the women... Sounds like a good guy to me...

That's not the point. The man is ENTERTAINING! That Cordero fellow is about as entertaining as a Mormon coffee house.

It's starting:

http://articles.philly.com/2013-05-09/news/39117940_1_golden-arches-apartment-complex-tv-news

I'll bet his phone is ringing right now with offers from the "David

Letterman Show," "Late Night with Jimmy Fallon" and "The Steve Harvey

Show."

Last I checked, Ramsey - not to be confused with the Philly

police commissioner by the same name - was trending on Twitter.

Cleveland's Ramsey, with his colorful language and folksy way of

expressing himself, is everywhere, and it was inevitable.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Jingthing

[JemJem]

May the regular TV competition for who has the most barbaric punishment for the perpetrators begin.

No need for any barbaric punishment, man.

Life sentence, with no chance of parole, will suffice. Do you agree ?

And housed in general population, no special protection

I definitely agree. I consider myself a liberal but when it comes to issues of crime, I am for tough and just punishment. Do the crime and do the time; and, expect NO special treatment !

[copa8]

I recognize this is a sensitive topic. However, not only do I want him to make a lot of money out of his moment of fame, I am now PREDICTING it. The American media will not be able to resist this character. He'll be on Letterman. He'll meet a PR image professional who will coach him (for a cut) on how to get a lifetime payday. Ironically it all may end up destroying him, but that's another matter. Cheers.

it does help that he's black. the hispanic guy won't see any of the fame/money. had he been asian, he'll be forgotten the next day. take a look at the asian guy that got car-jacked by the boston bombers. he escaped and informed authorities of their plans to bomb NYC. 0 fame/money.

[Jingthing]

I recognize this is a sensitive topic. However, not only do I want him to make a lot of money out of his moment of fame, I am now PREDICTING it. The American media will not be able to resist this character. He'll be on Letterman. He'll meet a PR image professional who will coach him (for a cut) on how to get a lifetime payday. Ironically it all may end up destroying him, but that's another matter. Cheers.

it does help that he's black. the hispanic guy won't see any of the fame/money. had he been asian, he'll be forgotten the next day. take a look at the asian guy that got car-jacked by the boston bombers. he escaped and informed authorities of their plans to bomb NYC. 0 fame/money.

Different situations. The Chinese national man you mentioned is very sensitive to publicity and doesn't even want his real name released. He refuse to talk to any press without that being respected. He did give an exclusive interview to a Boston magazine, but no picture and used a second name for it. We don't even know his actual name -- his choice. We will later as I reckon he will need to testify in court.

Ramsey isn't famous now because he is black. It's a combo of what he did and the funny STYLE in which he conducted himself in a press interview. A Latino with a very entertaining style could have potentially been a meme as well. I really don't know if he'll actually make a penny. If Letterman calls and he says no, that might be the end of it.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

What is Ramsey going to do?

He is NOW already a massive celebrity and he is completely unprepared for this.

There is probably a major movie just telling the story of what is happening to him in terms of the instant celebrity.

Bill Maher on Real Time featured Ramsey in his opening monologue mostly focusing on how incredibly ENTERTAINING Ramsey is.

He said that nobody in America should get their own REALITY TV show until Ramsey does. Reality tv is the leading form of American tv content today.

At this point, it's up to Ramsey how to navigate all this. He may indeed just go and hide and I wouldn't blame him! He does have the right stuff for this new role in terms of his true story and his character: his heroic deeds, his working class work ethic, and his salty humor. But that doesn't predict whether he will continue to play along or not.

Played right, he could now become a major entertainment celebrity. Not for five days but the rest of his life. But he really needs help to do that and I'm not sure that's what he wants. Of course even if he wants to hide now, it won't be easy. The media will be hunting him down for more.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/charles-ramsey-who-rescued-cleveland-women-held-captive-visits-the-district/2013/05/11/b4dfbccc-ba52-11e2-aa9e-a02b765ff0ea_story.html

It was day five of Ramsey’s moment, and he had already morphed from hero
to celebrity.

...

Thanks to that kind of frank talk, the Ramsey phenomenon shows no sign of abating. His

about
the rescue has drawn nearly 7 million views on YouTube, which was then
topped by 9 million viewings of a video that turned Ramsey’s infectious
storytelling style into

called “Dead Giveaway.”

...

In the small hours of Saturday morning, Ramsey, exhausted but still
happily posing with anyone who asked, paused to consider the dawn of his
sixth day in the spotlight: “What I’ve learned from the human race this
week is we still ain’t got it right.”

Edited May 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[GentlemanJim]

Well it seems the nutcase who committed this crime is pleading not guilty! The lawyers words of support for him are sickening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22543247