Route 66 Club Bans Ladyboys

[Jingthing]

People get refused because they wear shorts or slippers. Although I personally disagree with their discrimination policy, It's their club they can do whatever they want. They have every right to do so and they are protected by their right to freedom of speech and choice. If you feel that strongly about them not allowing ladyboys then by all means boycott the club and ask your friends to do so.

Yeah nightclubs are a different animal. Exclusivity of entrance adds value to the owners. Its not like discriminating against people on something vital like housing and employment.

Each case is different. Like in the U.S. when country clubs banned Jews that was arguably more serious because such clubs can be the nexus of economic connections so being kept out retards the potential of social advancement. A nightclub is more like a nexus of catching STDs.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Jingthing

[Dumu Ali]

people with black skin are banned from Bamboo Bar in Nana Sukhumvit Soi 3

Thai Aparteid = No Ladyboys - No Blacks - No Farang unless he is loaded -

[Jingthing]

How is saying that guys who like ladyboys are homosexual derogatory?

...

That part isn't derogatory but it is incorrect. The vast majority of men into transsexuals identify as straight. The vast majority of gay identified men have ZERO interest in female presenting transsexuals.

[MrHammer]

How is saying that guys who like ladyboys are homosexual derogatory?

...

That part isn't derogatory but it is incorrect. The vast majority of men into transsexuals identify as straight. The vast majority of gay identified men have ZERO interest in female presenting transsexuals.

Ladyboys, the gateway sex.

Or do you mean they identify as straight the same way as republicans giving blowjobs in bathroom stalls?

Straight men are not interested in ladyboys. That doesn't mean a ladyboy can fool you for a short time if you're extremely drunk in a dark nightclub.

The reason clubs stop ladyboys, isn't because of the few random flamboyant ladyboys here and there, but because a lot of them knowingly seek out drunk newbies in dark clubs for whatever reason they have be it money or something else. No one likes being cheated or taking advantage of.

Honestly, I think clubs denying ladyboys entrance are going to see more customers.The vast majority of guests, female or male, have ZERO interest in ladyboys and would rather avoid them.

[Baerboxer]

There is no 'third gender', no matter what people would like us to believe (and use, as a phrase). All too often we see reports and evidence that 'ladyboys' - or transvestites as they are correctly known - intimidate those around them with the intention of committing fraud or other crime.

Although the Press is likely trying to hurt this pub's business, I think that it may just increase their customer base.

I believe that their are many people that would be Happy to go to clubs that are free of the troubles that are usually associated with the third gender.

And then there is the old adage that any publicity is good publicity, especially when it is free publicity.

If anyone cared to ask the owners or managers of Route 66 why they may - or may not - be discriminating against transvestites, we may find out a) real and genuine reasons (not press speculation and self-reporting by the group which is hungrily seeking publicity and sensible reasons for such actions.

kathoeys, as they are correctly known IN THAILAND, or the English equivilant "Ladyboys", as they are correctly known IN THAILAND, are generally considered BY THAI PEOPLE as a third gender or "woman of another kind". Transvestites, Transsexuals, or Transgender are about as well understood, by the majority of Thais, as Bisexual or even gay. And Thai people don't give a damn about what we outsiiders believe or don't believe!

You missed the "IMO" off your post - important because that's all it is - your opinion.

[Jingthing]

...

Ladyboys, the gateway sex.

...

Also incorrect. It's OK. You don't know much about actual gay men. It is not required.

[somchaismith]

Rumor has it that all Route 66 bouncers will be trained in the Dundee-Handshake.

[HardenedSoul]

Insanity, the pick-up joint formerly known as Insomnia, bans them too.

They feel the ladyboys intimidate the working girls.

No working girls, no pissed up whoremongers to buy over-priced drinks.

Not sure how smart that is, though since ladyboys are extremely popular with more guys than you'd believe.

For the record, a "monger" is a seller, not a customer.

Semantics.

It is a colloquial term used to describe those who specifically seek out others offering sex in return for money

@ Mr. Hammer - Yes they are extremely popular.

They're obviously not as popular in mainstream establishments like nightclubs and discos where most men are interested in real girls but it would be folly to deny that there is a real demand for them when so several gogo bars in Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza only have ladyboys performing..

[William_R]

How is saying that guys who like ladyboys are homosexual derogatory?

...

That part isn't derogatory but it is incorrect. The vast majority of men into transsexuals identify as straight. The vast majority of gay identified men have ZERO interest in female presenting transsexuals.

Absolutely correct, and that includes Thai males, as well. Although, with Thai males its a bit more complex as they identify as straight if the can pass for straight. It has very little to do with what they actually do behind closed doors.

[Baerboxer]

The strange thing in the video is the amount of dialogue with the door staff. In the UK, in my experience, if admission is refused, there is no great debate about it. No one's going to change their mind - may be dress standard, drunk, behaviour related or whatever.

I don't frequent the nightclubs here, but, would guess that the less relaxed you are on the door, the more inside security staff you need, which would be the same in Europe. Stopping potential trouble before it gets inside is the objective.

I know of more recent instances in the UK where door staff would not allow members of certain groups in to their establishments based on previous issues. Maybe not fair on the particular group as the trouble makers may have been a small proportion. But, that was the decsion.

There are strict rules governing door staff in the UK. I don't know if Thailand has anything similar.

[Baerboxer]

How is saying that guys who like ladyboys are homosexual derogatory?

...

That part isn't derogatory but it is incorrect. The vast majority of men into transsexuals identify as straight. The vast majority of gay identified men have ZERO interest in female presenting transsexuals.

Absolutely correct, and that includes Thai males, as well. Although, with Thai males its a bit more complex as they identify as straight if the can pass for straight. It has very little to do with what they actually do behind closed doors.

And how do you know all this?

[Baerboxer]

Rumor has it that all Route 66 bouncers will be trained in the Dundee-Handshake.

I've never heard it called thar before. Put's me off me' wee piece of Dundee cake

More likely the Glasgow smile!

Edited May 11, 2013 by Baerboxer

[MrHammer]

Insanity, the pick-up joint formerly known as Insomnia, bans them too.

They feel the ladyboys intimidate the working girls.

No working girls, no pissed up whoremongers to buy over-priced drinks.

Not sure how smart that is, though since ladyboys are extremely popular with more guys than you'd believe.

For the record, a "monger" is a seller, not a customer.

Semantics.

It is a colloquial term used to describe those who specifically seek out others offering sex in return for money

@ Mr. Hammer - Yes they are extremely popular.

They're obviously not as popular in mainstream establishments like nightclubs and discos where most men are interested in real girls but it would be folly to deny that there is a real demand for them when so several gogo bars in Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza only have ladyboys performing..

It is fine that they are popular with SOME men. However, the vast majority of men do NOT want ladyboys in bars with real women. The fact that some ladyboys with their augmented tits and more promiscious western porn star 'femininity' on first glance might attract more attention is not the same as guys actually wanting a man with a wig.

Being fooled by excaggerated female attributes (yes that is an attack on western porn star ideals) is NOT the same as being attracted to chicks with dicks.

The inherent deceitfullness with ladyboys is what gets to me. No, they are not popular just because a wasted tourist (or even expat) makes a mistake in a dark, very loud club.

Why can't ladyboys and ladyboy lovers just be upfront about it and congregate where there is equal demand for each other? Why the need to pretend? That is why I think men into ladyboys are just delusional gays.

You don't see Route 66 banning gay men do you? No, because why would anyone have a problem with a gay dude, but the inherent deceitfulness of the ladyboys is NOT wanted.

[Mudcrab]

Oh well, there's always Route 69.

Or root anything

[William_R]

There is no 'third gender', no matter what people would like us to believe (and use, as a phrase). All too often we see reports and evidence that 'ladyboys' - or transvestites as they are correctly known - intimidate those around them with the intention of committing fraud or other crime.

Although the Press is likely trying to hurt this pub's business, I think that it may just increase their customer base.

I believe that their are many people that would be Happy to go to clubs that are free of the troubles that are usually associated with the third gender.

And then there is the old adage that any publicity is good publicity, especially when it is free publicity.

If anyone cared to ask the owners or managers of Route 66 why they may - or may not - be discriminating against transvestites, we may find out a) real and genuine reasons (not press speculation and self-reporting by the group which is hungrily seeking publicity and sensible reasons for such actions.

kathoeys, as they are correctly known IN THAILAND, or the English equivilant "Ladyboys", as they are correctly known IN THAILAND, are generally considered BY THAI PEOPLE as a third gender or "woman of another kind". Transvestites, Transsexuals, or Transgender are about as well understood, by the majority of Thais, as Bisexual or even gay. And Thai people don't give a damn about what we outsiiders believe or don't believe!

You missed the "IMO" off your post - important because that's all it is - your opinion.

And the findings of The Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender, and Reproduction

http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/ccies/th.php

[somchaismith]

Rumor has it that all Route 66 bouncers will be trained in the Dundee-Handshake.

I've never heard it called thar before. Put's me off me' wee piece of Dundee cake

More likely the Glasgow smile!

It's not Jimmy mate. It's Mick 'Crocodile' Dundee.

[William_R]

How is saying that guys who like ladyboys are homosexual derogatory?

...

That part isn't derogatory but it is incorrect. The vast majority of men into transsexuals identify as straight. The vast majority of gay identified men have ZERO interest in female presenting transsexuals.

Absolutely correct, and that includes Thai males, as well. Although, with Thai males its a bit more complex as they identify as straight if the can pass for straight. It has very little to do with what they actually do behind closed doors.

And how do you know all this?

In addition to being gay and living amongst it for many years I've also read academic papers that generally agree with what I have experienced, observed or been told by Thais. But the easiest way to confirm this is to simply ask. Most younger Thai males, with reasonably good English skills, particularly those in the lower classes, will candidly agree.

Something else most don't know, and I only recently discovered, is it is quite common for straight males to take a Kathoey "girlfriend" until he marries a girl that will give give him children. And its done right out in the open with absolutely no retribution.

[MrHammer]

^I have never in my time in Thailand seen a Thai man with a katoey in public. Perhaps you extrapolate from your experiences in the gay areas?

[Fgis]

It's just like immigrates in my country, most are good but the few cheaters/scammers make me feel like they should be banned everywhere and not really be considered like local people....

The more I stay in this country the more I hate ladyboy and don't want to meet them anywhere.

Even though I know that most of them are nice people who just believe that they are born transgender when it is their stupid society who llowed them or even pushed them to become one...

[kurnell]

I must hang out in the wrong places cos I've only ever seen katoeys cause trouble

[William_R]

^I have never in my time in Thailand seen a Thai man with a katoey in public. Perhaps you extrapolate from your experiences in the gay areas?

Actually I only recently learned of this when I moved to a remote farming village. In the 6.5 years I lived in BKK and Pattaya I never saw or heard of it. I doubt it is as common in urban areas because city life is very different from rural. Boys tell me, in the city, girls have become very forward and will actually approach a guy for sex. In rural Thailand it is far more likely that a young couple caught fooling around will be forced to marry. Thus, the Ladyboy option is a very attractive one.

[joey nitro]

I wonder why this thread has the most replies.

[vijer]

Although the Press is likely trying to hurt this pub's business, I think that it may just increase their customer base.

I believe that their are many people that would be Happy to go to clubs that are free of the troubles that are usually associated with the third gender.

And then there is the old adage that any publicity is good publicity, especially when it is free publicity.

There is no 'third gender', no matter what people would like us to believe (and use, as a phrase). All too often we see reports and evidence that 'ladyboys' - or transvestites as they are correctly known - intimidate those around them with the intention of committing fraud or other crime.

If anyone cared to ask the owners or managers of Route 66 why they may - or may not - be discriminating against transvestites, we may find out a) real and genuine reasons (not press speculation and self-reporting by the group which is hungrily seeking publicity and sensible reasons for such actions.

I think you mean Transgender. In any case, I think you are wrong, I think there is a real difference, a hormone imbalance, a dick and fair skin and some breasts even before being augmented, and very effeminate.

[technologybytes]

How is saying that guys who like ladyboys are homosexual derogatory?

...

That part isn't derogatory but it is incorrect. The vast majority of men into transsexuals identify as straight. The vast majority of gay identified men have ZERO interest in female presenting transsexuals.

Absolutely correct, and that includes Thai males, as well. Although, with Thai males its a bit more complex as they identify as straight if the can pass for straight. It has very little to do with what they actually do behind closed doors.

The whole gay or straight thing is boring, people are individuals and so few really fit neatly into any one category.

I generally consider myself to be straight, but I do like Ladyboys. I know men who identify as gay and generally they dislike Ladyboys.. but so do lots of men who identify as Straight.

Just forget labels and be yourself, thankfully it's easy to do so in Thailand.

[maccaroni man]

IMO the lack of arbitrary PC rules dictating what can and can not be said or allowed is what makes LOS special.

[Escapologist]

Racism is alive and well in Thailand, and promulgated from the top down. When it is okay to discriminate against people because of the color of their skin or ethnicity, then why should anyone be surprised when it is also done based on gender, religion or what not. When one lives in a racist society, racism can be expected as the norm. It won't stop until it is stopped from the top down.

Yeah, what you need is some "equality" legislation. Seeing their own get heavy handed punishments, for acts not deemed crimes at all by Thais, will make the Thai people really like you. Especially if you demand your "right" to live in their country, even though you hate them, and to practice your ways there too. Maybe you could turn Thailand into the kind of multicult utopia that so many farangs escaped to Thailand from in the first place? Enjoy the joys of social-engineering.

[Escapologist]

I hope this is true, and that the club is more successful as a result, and that more heterosexual clubs begin to practice it. Familiarity certainly breeds contempt when it comes to an idiotic man, who performs a camp exaggeration of a melodramatic and spiteful woman but who is ten times more threatening, especially when he has back-up. I've developed a somewhat healthy hatred of them and I virtually always avoid establishments where I know I'm going to be hassled by them. Well done to Route 66 and good luck.

[HardenedSoul]

IMO the lack of arbitrary PC rules dictating what can and can not be said or allowed is what makes LOS special.

Yeah . . . until a Thai calls you (not you personally) a "farang" then it's all "I'm discriminated against, over-charged and Thais are racist".

Remember, it's only "PC crap" when someone other than you is affected.

[smokie36]

What a boring club policy.

If I had a club I would only want happy conversationalists who love to get pissed and dance regardless of any other consideration.

[hawker9000]

To me, LB's aren't that much different from other people. You have the good, the bad (oh, yeah,and the ugly), but the same can be said for "straights" as well. Through my Thai wife, I've met some who are very decent, good people. But have also met a few I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them. I can also say the same thing about a lot of falang I know as well.

However, the owner of the club has the right to exclude them from entry if he wants. His club, his rules, whether you agree with them or not. Although I can see the possibility of someone filing a 'discrimination" law suit against him at some point.

I have a 16 yr old TomBoy who used to live across the street from me with his drop dead gorgeous sister, who is a mia noi for rich BKK business man. Very handsome, would make a beautiful girl, and absolutely one of the best, nicest people I know. He calls me "Daddy" or "Father", comes to have me help him with English, or just come to visit when he can. Funny, smart, polite, and genuinely nice person. He/she has gone out to dinner with my wife and I a few times, and when he introduces me to his friends, he tells them I am his father.

A few months back I was seriously sick from a back injury. He came every day to try and help me & my wife. A few times even turning down requests from his g/f to come be with her, telling her that if she wanted to see him/her, that she would have to come to my house, because he could not leave me alone without someone here to help me even get out of bed to go to the bathroom.

I learned a long time ago not to judge people by their gender, race, etc, but only judge them as to how they are with me.

I would tend to agree with you Just1Voice, but for a few points:

A much higher percentage (from my own observations) of crime is committed on the streets of Thailand by Ladyboys. Particularly young ladyboys. The older ladyboys seem to be less of a problem. I have seen a large number of attacks on mostly foreigners by ladyboys, all being ladyboys under 30 years old dealing with a drunk foreigner or one that does not know how to deal with aggressive behavior. You either walk away, and if you cant, you get just as aggressive back and hope you are not the one that comes off second best.

Secondly, if we did not discriminate, our world would be a much more dangerous place. For the past several years our countries have been fighting a war against radical Islam, against those who would see us fall into the abyss simply because our belief system is different. By establishing which groups are responsible generally for wanting to attack us (MOSTLY Islamist groups who practice certain schools of Islam, particularly Wahabi and Salaafi Islam) our governments are able to concentrate their limited resources against this group to affect a greater result against the source of the problem.

I believe the issue is being poorly dealt with here, by simply "banning all lady boys". How about letting them in, but having security and under cover Police catching them in the act, photographing them, who they leave with etc.. and then when complaints arise nabbing them the next week? This would take a bit of work but would be the fastest approach do remove or slow down a very long standing problem in Bangkok.

WHO? Undercover police?? You gotta' be kidding. No, screening LBs at the door is really the barowner's best bet and the logical course of action. They get a little bad press maybe, but that goes with the territory and the bar business working the way it does, I seriously doubt anybody in authority is going to come along and make them do otherwise. 'Don't see why the "community" of LBs and their admirers can't set up their own bars & clubs, unless there simply aren't enough "takers" (and in that case, why should LBs be forced via "nondiscrimination" onto those not really seeking their company).

It's really past the point of absurdity when nondiscrimination now means a man can't "discriminate" in exercising sexual preference. We all agree in this day & age that it's harassment to direct unwanted attention on a woman; why should men have to tolerate it from LBs?