Route 66 Club Bans Ladyboys

[belg]

if you go for chicken and you get served a cock or pork, that is a reason to ban those fake identity sex workers

[DRONGOH]

It's sad that a minority of Ladyboys cause problems and give them all a bad name.

The majority of Thailand Ladyboys are decent honest and law abiding, its sad that the only news about ladyboys seems to be bad news.

Looks like the decent ladyboys live in caves. Just open up the very word "lady-boy". Not getting it yet?

[Nisa]

If they banned them because some ladyboys stole then have to say that is absolutely wrong. However, banning them (especially in a working girl bar) to protect drinking males from being duped into believing they are real females takes further consideration.

[Nisa]

How is saying that guys who like ladyboys are homosexual derogatory?

...

That part isn't derogatory but it is incorrect. The vast majority of men into transsexuals identify as straight. The vast majority of gay identified men have ZERO interest in female presenting transsexuals.

Absolutely 100% BS. A guy who is into penis is not straight even if that penis is attached to a pretty face or a body with fake breasts. You continue in threads to try to state this bizarre stance and now you have found a way to say it by claiming they "identify" with being straight ... although I am sure you have absolutely no scientific data to back this up, even if you did, it would indicate they are liars. At the very least they are bisexual. Nothing straight about allowing another man to put his penis in you or you putting yours in him.

Absolutely nothing wrong with being gay but a lot wrong with you trying to insinuate straight men want sex with another man .. even if the other man is wearing a dress.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Nisa

[Jingthing]

...

Absolutely nothing wrong with being gay but a lot wrong with you trying to insinuate straight men want sex with another man .. even if the other man is wearing a dress.

Interesting. You're insinuating that gay men are chasing people who present to the world as women (regardless of genitals). It happens but quite RARE.

Think about this just a little bit.

There is a segment of the porn industry for something like tranny/shemale porn.

You will NOT find it in the gay section!

Edited May 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[DP25]

If they banned them because some ladyboys stole then have to say that is absolutely wrong. However, banning them (especially in a working girl bar) to protect drinking males from being duped into believing they are real females takes further consideration.

Route 66 isn't a place to pick up working girls. It's like 95% Thais in their 20s and 30s with a handful of foreigners. There may be a few working girls there on their night off but you don't go there for that. The theft explanation could be honest, more likely the owner simply doesn't like them and thinks they are bad for his business. They also enforce a dress code to turn away people there too.

[DP25]

...

Absolutely nothing wrong with being gay but a lot wrong with you trying to insinuate straight men want sex with another man .. even if the other man is wearing a dress.

Interesting. You're insinuating that gay men are chasing people who present to the world as women (regardless of genitals). It happens but quite RARE.

Think about this just a little bit.

There is a segment of the porn industry for something like tranny/shemale porn.

You will NOT find it in the gay section!

I never see tranny videos in any of the straight video streaming sites I visit, because vast majority of straight men are repulsed by it and reject that it has anything to do with being straight. Start putting tranny videos mixed in with straight videos and 99% of your straight customers will never go to your site again. That's they why they clearly label that stuff and keep it off to the side in it's own section, not just to attract ladyboy lovers, but to warn straight viewers to steer clear.

They can identify as 'straight' all they want if it makes them feel better, lots of men who have sex with men do that.

[maccaroni man]

IMO the lack of arbitrary PC rules dictating what can and can not be said or allowed is what makes LOS special.

Yeah . . . until a Thai calls you (not you personally) a "farang" then it's all "I'm discriminated against, over-charged and Thais are racist".

Remember, it's only "PC crap" when someone other than you is affected.

back in the mid 90"s many of the guest houses down off kao san rd posted signs "no Thais allowed" when my wife and i first moved to samui a local business man liked my wife and was offering to help us get settled in and give me work that was until she told him I am not Thai. lol. If you want a good laugh read the bangkok post want ads,i.e." secretary wanted, under 30 yrs old, slim, pretty with white skin". I would much rather be in a place where people are free to run their business the way they choose than be dictated to by some govt agency with it's own agenda.

[HarryMilton]

To me, LB's aren't that much different from other people. You have the good, the bad (oh, yeah,and the ugly), but the same can be said for "straights" as well. Through my Thai wife, I've met some who are very decent, good people. But have also met a few I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them. I can also say the same thing about a lot of falang I know as well.

However, the owner of the club has the right to exclude them from entry if he wants. His club, his rules, whether you agree with them or not. Although I can see the possibility of someone filing a 'discrimination" law suit against him at some point.

I have a 16 yr old TomBoy who used to live across the street from me with his drop dead gorgeous sister, who is a mia noi for rich BKK business man. Very handsome, would make a beautiful girl, and absolutely one of the best, nicest people I know. He calls me "Daddy" or "Father", comes to have me help him with English, or just come to visit when he can. Funny, smart, polite, and genuinely nice person. He/she has gone out to dinner with my wife and I a few times, and when he introduces me to his friends, he tells them I am his father.

A few months back I was seriously sick from a back injury. He came every day to try and help me & my wife. A few times even turning down requests from his g/f to come be with her, telling her that if she wanted to see him/her, that she would have to come to my house, because he could not leave me alone without someone here to help me even get out of bed to go to the bathroom.

I learned a long time ago not to judge people by their gender, race, etc, but only judge them as to how they are with me.

Big difference between a Tom and a ladyboy.

[Jingthing]

Straight men into ladyboys, straight men playing on the down low -- easy to explain. Sexual identity is NOT changed by sexual activity. Sexual identity is the gender you feel primarily CONNECTED to, physically and emotionally. You know it! That is indeed why SELF identification is key. Walking on the wild side experiences outside your actual orientation is thrilling for some. But it doesn't change you sexual orientation. If I went and had sex with a woman for some kind of freakish thrill ride, it would NOT mean I am straight!

With female presenting transsexuals, yes, that is a twist. They are EMOTIONALLY female but physically more male than a so called real woman. On balance when you combine the emotional and physical, more women than men, obviously the degree varies depending on surgeries and hormones, so that their fans are mostly heterosexuals is no mystery in the slightest!

Edited May 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[Nisa]

...

Absolutely nothing wrong with being gay but a lot wrong with you trying to insinuate straight men want sex with another man .. even if the other man is wearing a dress.

Interesting. You're insinuating that gay men are chasing people who present to the world as women (regardless of genitals). It happens but quite RARE.

Think about this just a little bit.

There is a segment of the porn industry for something like tranny/shemale porn.

You will NOT find it in the gay section!

Men having sex with ladyboys are by definition not straight. Many of them are gay but just find it more easy for them to be with ladyboys while others are bisexual. There are a number of men who start with ladyboys and move on to men once they come to terms with the fact they are not straight (hetrosexuals).

If you want to be open about your gayness then go right ahead but stop trying to redefine what straight or homosexual means either out of ignorance of the subject or some psychological need you have.

And I am not insinuating anything but am simply stating fact. If you wish to twist it to mean something else to serve your own agenda that is your issue. If I was to insinuate using your logic, I'd suggest most of the boyfriends of feminine gays (called ladyboys by Thais) are not really gay.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Nisa

[Nisa]

If they banned them because some ladyboys stole then have to say that is absolutely wrong. However, banning them (especially in a working girl bar) to protect drinking males from being duped into believing they are real females takes further consideration.

Route 66 isn't a place to pick up working girls. It's like 95% Thais in their 20s and 30s with a handful of foreigners. There may be a few working girls there on their night off but you don't go there for that. The theft explanation could be honest, more likely the owner simply doesn't like them and thinks they are bad for his business. They also enforce a dress code to turn away people there too.

I wasn't suggesting it was and why I said they were wrong for their reasoning. It would be like banning blacks because some stole or robbed the place. But the RCA area has seen more and more foreigners going into the area which in turn has seen more working girls going there for a dual purpose of a night out and possibly finding a different level of client.

[Jingthing]

I'd suggest most of the boyfriends of feminine gays (called ladyboys by Thais) are not really gay.

Effeminate males are not even close to the same thing as transsexuals. Effeminate males identify as male persons. Transsexuals (male to female) identify as female persons. Also note not all effeminate males are gay.

I know you have strong feelings but you know there is a body of knowledge now on human sexuality.

Yes I understand full well that probably most Thai people don't have enough knowledge about sexuality to see the difference between actual transsexuals and effeminate males. So what? Does that mean they're right because of an obvious cultural blind spot?

Edited May 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[Donnie Brasco]

Insanity, the pick-up joint formerly known as Insomnia, bans them too.

They feel the ladyboys intimidate the working girls.

No working girls, no pissed up whoremongers to buy over-priced drinks.

Not sure how smart that is, though since ladyboys are extremely popular with more guys than you'd believe.

For the record, a "monger" is a seller, not a customer.

Semantics.

It is a colloquial term used to describe those who specifically seek out others offering sex in return for money

@ Mr. Hammer - Yes they are extremely popular.

They're obviously not as popular in mainstream establishments like nightclubs and discos where most men are interested in real girls but it would be folly to deny that there is a real demand for them when so several gogo bars in Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza only have ladyboys performing..

Semantics have very little to do with this use of "monger"

This use of "monger" is a misnomer. A whoremonger is a monger of whores just as a fish monger is a dealer in fish and an iron monger is a dealer and worker of iron.

The misuse of "monger" to describe frequent customers of brothels, ab OP nuats and whore houses fell into common usage in an environment of ignorance.

That does not make rework this common misnomer into a colloquialism.

"Dumbass" is a colloquialism.

[Nisa]

I'd suggest most of the boyfriends of feminine gays (called ladyboys by Thais) are not really gay.

Effeminate males are not even close to the same thing as transsexuals. Effeminate males identify as male persons. Transsexuals (male to female) identify as female persons. Also note not all effeminate males are gay.

I know you have strong feelings but you know there is a body of knowledge now on human sexuality.

Yes I understand full well that probably most Thai people don't have enough knowledge about sexuality to see the difference between actual transsexuals and effeminate males. So what? Does that mean they're right because of an obvious cultural blind spot?

You lost most credibility a while ago but you lose ALL credibility when you show just how dishonest you are by taking a partial sentence out of a post in order to make somebody appear to say something they didn't.

[Nisa]

Yes I understand full well that probably most Thai people don't have enough knowledge about sexuality to see the difference between actual transsexuals and effeminate males. So what? Does that mean they're right because of an obvious cultural blind spot?

Actually it appears to be you who keeps wanting to redefine words and terms even what straight and heterosexual means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladyboy

Kathoey or katoey is a Thai term that refers to a transgender or an effeminate gay male in Thailand.

[Jingthing]

Yes I understand full well that probably most Thai people don't have enough knowledge about sexuality to see the difference between actual transsexuals and effeminate males. So what? Does that mean they're right because of an obvious cultural blind spot?

Actually it appears to be you who keeps wanting to redefine words and terms even what straight and heterosexual means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladyboy

Kathoey or katoey is a Thai term that refers to a transgender or an effeminate gay male in Thailand.

That is true about Thai DEFINITIONS of words (I already clearly implied as much) but back to actual reality, transgender male to female men are NOT even close to the same thing as effeminate gay men, no matter that Thai culture uses the same word for very different kinds of people. In fact your typical Thai thinks ANY gay man, effeminate or masculine, is a ladyboy. This is part of the struggle of the Thai sexual minority rights movement. They are dealing with a culture that has some very deep seated and very incorrect cultural assumptions.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I'd suggest most of the boyfriends of feminine gays (called ladyboys by Thais) are not really gay.

Effeminate males are not even close to the same thing as transsexuals. Effeminate males identify as male persons. Transsexuals (male to female) identify as female persons. Also note not all effeminate males are gay.

I know you have strong feelings but you know there is a body of knowledge now on human sexuality.

Yes I understand full well that probably most Thai people don't have enough knowledge about sexuality to see the difference between actual transsexuals and effeminate males. So what? Does that mean they're right because of an obvious cultural blind spot?

You lost most credibility a while ago but you lose ALL credibility when you show just how dishonest you are by taking a partial sentence out of a post in order to make somebody appear to say something they didn't.

I would suggest keeping to the content here rather than resorting to cheap ad hominem attacks.

Back closer to the OP topic, personally I don't really care what nightclub bans which group in Thailand. However, if the people being banned feel strongly enough to protest it, I support their right to do that. I just think Thailand is so far behind on civil rights issues of so many kinds that entrance to nightclubs is best kept very LOW priority.

For example, it's still legal here to place employment ads saying light skinned only, correct? Now that's really worth protesting about!

Edited May 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[kagan]

I think bar owners can refuse service to anyone they want to right? Gender, skin color etc.. It might not be "right" but they have should have the right. The lesbian club on rca refuses guys. If the ladyboy has the right friends he can go in to Route 66 for sure, ive seen it. If a place refuses me service i dont go there, no big deal. Plenty of places to go.

[HardenedSoul]

Insanity, the pick-up joint formerly known as Insomnia, bans them too.

They feel the ladyboys intimidate the working girls.

No working girls, no pissed up whoremongers to buy over-priced drinks.

Not sure how smart that is, though since ladyboys are extremely popular with more guys than you'd believe.

For the record, a "monger" is a seller, not a customer.

Semantics.

It is a colloquial term used to describe those who specifically seek out others offering sex in return for money

@ Mr. Hammer - Yes they are extremely popular.

They're obviously not as popular in mainstream establishments like nightclubs and discos where most men are interested in real girls but it would be folly to deny that there is a real demand for them when so several gogo bars in Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza only have ladyboys performing..

Semantics have very little to do with this use of "monger"

This use of "monger" is a misnomer. A whoremonger is a monger of whores just as a fish monger is a dealer in fish and an iron monger is a dealer and worker of iron.

The misuse of "monger" to describe frequent customers of brothels, ab OP nuats and whore houses fell into common usage in an environment of ignorance.

That does not make rework this common misnomer into a colloquialism.

"Dumbass" is a colloquialism.

Ok well you keep splitting hairs; maybe you've got the time.

Frankly, I would rather not delve into the etymology of the word for the purposes of posting on a thread like this. I'm fairly certain that you and everyone else is aware of what the term refers to so let's just leave it at that and move on, shall we?

"<deleted>" is a colloquialism too.

[GreenSnapper]

Yes I understand full well that probably most Thai people don't have enough knowledge about sexuality to see the difference between actual transsexuals and effeminate males. So what? Does that mean they're right because of an obvious cultural blind spot?

Actually it appears to be you who keeps wanting to redefine words and terms even what straight and heterosexual means.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LadyboyKathoey or katoey is a Thai term that refers to a transgender or an effeminate gay male in Thailand.

Correct!

Thais often use the term "ladyboy" when they actually mean a feminine gay.

And of course they are instinctively correct. Ladyboys are men, attracted to men. Genetically men. Surgery and clothes don't change your genetics.

[Jingthing]

Yes I understand full well that probably most Thai people don't have enough knowledge about sexuality to see the difference between actual transsexuals and effeminate males. So what? Does that mean they're right because of an obvious cultural blind spot?

Actually it appears to be you who keeps wanting to redefine words and terms even what straight and heterosexual means.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LadyboyKathoey or katoey is a Thai term that refers to a transgender or an effeminate gay male in Thailand.

Correct!

Thais often use the term "ladyboy" when they actually mean a feminine gay.

And of course they are instinctively correct. Ladyboys are men, attracted to men. Genetically men. Surgery and clothes don't change your genetics.

Transsexuals were born male but feel female inside. NOT HAPPY with their birth gender. Effeminate gay men (a subset of gay men in general) were born male and feel male inside. HAPPY (very happy!) with their birth gender. Surgery and clothes don't change genetics. True. But gender differences are deeper than such things and transsexuals and gay men are different GENDERS, psychologically speaking.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

If you want to be open about your gayness then go right ahead but stop trying to redefine what straight or homosexual means either out of ignorance of the subject or some psychological need you have.

Hear, hear. Stop the sexuality spin!

Edited May 12, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

If you want to be open about your gayness then go right ahead but stop trying to redefine what straight or homosexual means either out of ignorance of the subject or some psychological need you have.

Hear, hear. Stop the sexuality spin!

Do you have anything more to say about the actual debate points?

I don't think either of you have the authority to order other posters not to express their opinions on topics of discussion.

(The ad hominum stuff is not relevant and will be ignored.)

Edited May 13, 2013 by Jingthing

[soundman]

I have removed some recent inflammatory posts. Please discuss, debate in a civil manner.

[William_R]

Question:

So if a guy likes a ladyboy, is he straight?

Ladyboys answer:

If the man likes to take a ladyboy, he is not gay. What does a ladyboy look like? She has long hair, big hips, big breasts and looks like a lady! He is not gay! If a guy wants to have sex with a ladyboy with short hair who looks like a man then maybe he is gay!

An Afternoon With Some Ladyboys...

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/StickmanBangkokWeeklyColumn2010/Bangkok-Ladyboys.htm

And for the record I agee 100% with everything Jingthing has posted on the subject.

[William_R]

Yes I understand full well that probably most Thai people don't have enough knowledge about sexuality to see the difference between actual transsexuals and effeminate males. So what? Does that mean they're right because of an obvious cultural blind spot?

Actually it appears to be you who keeps wanting to redefine words and terms even what straight and heterosexual means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladyboy

Kathoey or katoey is a Thai term that refers to a transgender or an effeminate gay male in Thailand.

The complete paragraph...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladyboy

Kathoey or katoey (Thai: กะเทย; RTGS: Kathoei [kàtʰɤːj]) is a Thai term that refers to a transgender or an effeminate gay male in Thailand. While a significant number of Thais perceive kathoeys as belonging to a third gender, including many kathoeys themselves, others see them as either a kind of man or a kind of woman.^[1] Related phrases include sao (or phuying) praphet song (Thai: สาวประเภทสอง,"a second kind of woman") and phet thi sam (Thai: เพศที่สาม, "third gender"). The word kathoey is of Khmer origin.^[2] It is most often rendered as ladyboy or lady boy in English conversation with Thais and this latter expression has become popular across South East Asia. Some English sources gloss kathoeys as non-males.[

Edited May 14, 2013 by William_R

[DP25]

Question:

So if a guy likes a ladyboy, is he straight?

Ladyboys answer:

If the man likes to take a ladyboy, he is not gay. What does a ladyboy look like? She has long hair, big hips, big breasts and looks like a lady! He is not gay! If a guy wants to have sex with a ladyboy with short hair who looks like a man then maybe he is gay!

An Afternoon With Some Ladyboys...

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/StickmanBangkokWeeklyColumn2010/Bangkok-Ladyboys.htm

And for the record I agee 100% with everything Jingthing has posted on the subject.

LOL. He's saying what his customers want to hear. He has a penis, and he says that 90% of his customers want him to be the giver during sex. There is nothing remotely 'straight' about that desire regardless of what outfit he wears. I'm sure most of his customers are completely delusional and continue calling themselves 'straight' after they finish receiving a session but it doesn't make it so.

[Jingthing]

Question:

So if a guy likes a ladyboy, is he straight?

Ladyboys answer:

If the man likes to take a ladyboy, he is not gay. What does a ladyboy look like? She has long hair, big hips, big breasts and looks like a lady! He is not gay! If a guy wants to have sex with a ladyboy with short hair who looks like a man then maybe he is gay!

An Afternoon With Some Ladyboys...

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/StickmanBangkokWeeklyColumn2010/Bangkok-Ladyboys.htm

And for the record I agee 100% with everything Jingthing has posted on the subject.

LOL. He's saying what his customers want to hear. He has a penis, and he says that 90% of his customers want him to be the giver during sex. There is nothing remotely 'straight' about that desire regardless of what outfit he wears. I'm sure most of his customers are completely delusional and continue calling themselves 'straight' after they finish receiving a session but it doesn't make it so.

I reckon you probably think every straight man who has ever enjoyed a naughty finger is a closet homosexual.

[TexasRanger]

Question:

So if a guy likes a ladyboy, is he straight?

 

Ladyboys answer:

If the man likes to take a ladyboy, he is not gay.  What does a ladyboy look like?  She has long hair, big hips, big breasts and looks like a lady!  He is not gay!  If a guy wants to have sex with a ladyboy with short hair who looks like a man then maybe he is gay!

 

An Afternoon With Some Ladyboys...

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/StickmanBangkokWeeklyColumn2010/Bangkok-Ladyboys.htm

 

And for the record I agee 100% with everything Jingthing has posted on the subject.

LOL. He's saying what his customers want to hear. He has a penis, and he says that 90% of his customers want him to be the giver during sex. There is nothing remotely 'straight' about that desire regardless of what outfit he wears. I'm sure most of his customers are completely delusional and continue calling themselves 'straight' after they finish receiving a session but it doesn't make it so.

I reckon you probably think every straight man who has ever enjoyed a naughty finger is a closet homosexual. 

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