Happy Being The Farang

[Kitsune]

Just a truth half of the expat chose conveniently to ignore

I hear about, and read, on a daily basis, of foreigner who are getting ripped off here and there, very often by their girlfriend/wife, but also in regular business relationships, how can you have missed that?

You've read??!!

You've heard??!!

Jesus, what is wrong with you people?

Calm down, yes, there are many foreigners who are getting treated badly, do I say that every one of them would have not being ripped off or scammed, had they not being referred to as an object (that is Farang), hell no!

But do I see a clear connection between the constant need to refer to us as "farang", rather than humans, and many problems we face here on a daily basis, hell yes!!

The thing is, here most people's interaction with Thai is through the hospitality industry: They go to farang dedicated pubs/bars/restaurants /clubs where the staff are trained to pleased farangs.
They just have no clue of what going on outside their buble

I have spent over twenty years here outside of that buble (sic) you describe - and my experience is apparently quite different from yours. Many of my friends who are quite content here do not live in that bubble either.

What you imply - that outside of a certain subset of Thais and Thai businesses geared towards treating Farangs well (for reasons of profit) there is a starkly different and less pleasant existence - is a fallacy as far as I'm concerned. And it's ridiculously presumptuous to be acting as if you know a truth that "most people" don't.

[Whidbeyboy]

We never pretended to be anything else than farang.

That's the constant reminder that gets tedious.

In our home country we don't constantly remind Thai immigrants they are not from there.

Why do we have to put up with it?

I disagree. I never really saw racism till I married a Thai wife. Since then I have seen it on numerous occasions. That being said, there likely is a difference in attitudes but one based on culture.

[laislica]

When I was a child in the UK, we played with Gollywogs, ate Gollywog jams etc, it was not seen as a bad thing in those days. However, it was noted that it could be offensive to Western Oriental Gentleman and it was "banned".

The <deleted> word was used so often that we thought of them as lesser beings and didn't care if they heard us refer to them as <deleted>. For sure it lead to them being treated less well in general terms and to be treated with less respect than they deserved. After all, the war depleted the number of men in the UK. There were many unskilled jobs to be filled so the government bribed families from the West Indies with £50 to come over to the UK and be employed in the unskilled jobs.

When the term went away, there was IMO, an increase in respect and acceptance but it took a long time, decades to do so.

I think that the constant reminders that Kitsune mentions is somewhat similar to us using the term <deleted>.

(Maybe we are getting some of our own back?)

I take the point that a man is who he is regardless of what some locals call him but I don't agree that the use of the term Farang is anything less of a slur than <deleted>.

Maybe things are already changing since there are a number of posters who observe that the term Farang is not used in their faces, so to speak. Some locals seem to be making an attempt to be more politically correct but such a change will take a long time to complete.

Thailand was a closed, secret country for many years and Thai's are proud of that, they were not occupied by the French, British etc.

My wife tells me that many Thais resent the Farang, who flaunt their excessive wealth and have holier than thou attitudes.

As to being ripped off, well Cuba has effectively two official currency rates, a poor rate of exchange for visitors and a good one for locals. In Thailand the rates are unofficial and variable according to your prowess as a negotiator!

It's also true that there are many westerners here who are learning Thai and their ears may have become too sensitive to the word Farang and any time they hear a word that sounds like Farang they think that someone is being rude about them when they are not. The word they heard may not even have been Farang, it just sounded like it to the language novice.

Self image is important, someone with a poor or overbearing self image is easily spotted, as indeed is the quietly confident person. It is body language that helps everyone to appreciate this and it is an instinctual thing.

Dogs know if you are afraid or not.

Pack animals will attack those who display weakness.

Therefore, as has been said by many posters, be yourself, a quiet, respectful person and you will probably be treated with the same respect that you demonstrate. (Of course there will be exceptions to every rule )

[cooked]

People that don't know me in the village refer to me as 'Farang' unless they know that I am Swiss, then it's 'Swisserland'. I was called Farang today by a kid in Tescos. I called back 'Thai, Thai', which people generally seem to think to be funny. In the family I am 'Christian name', uncle, father or granddad.

I find myself referring to 'the Lao guy' or 'the Cambodia guy' when I don't know their names.

A sense of humour and maybe a little humility makes life much easier, don't you think?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[AnotherOneAmerican]

People that don't know me in the village refer to me as 'Farang' unless they know that I am Swiss, then it's 'Swisserland'. I was called Farang today by a kid in Tescos. I called back 'Thai, Thai', which people generally seem to think to be funny. In the family I am 'Christian name', uncle, father or granddad.

I find myself referring to 'the Lao guy' or 'the Cambodia guy' when I don't know their names.

A sense of humour and maybe a little humility makes life much easier, don't you think?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I think a sense of humour and a little humility makes you Uncle Tom.

'Thai' is not an insult, try shouting back 'chow cow' or 'baan nawk'

Edited May 14, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[laislica]

People that don't know me in the village refer to me as 'Farang' unless they know that I am Swiss, then it's 'Swisserland'. I was called Farang today by a kid in Tescos. I called back 'Thai, Thai', which people generally seem to think to be funny. In the family I am 'Christian name', uncle, father or granddad.

I find myself referring to 'the Lao guy' or 'the Cambodia guy' when I don't know their names.

A sense of humour and maybe a little humility makes life much easier, don't you think?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I think a sense of humour and a little humility makes you Uncle Tom.

'Thai' is not an insult, try shouting back 'chow cow' or 'baan nawk'

Why would you want to give an insult?

If your Thai is so good you could just give the kid your name for next time and ask him his.

If you were a male Aussie, talking to another male Aussie, fair enough,

but to throw an insult at a local because YOU thought you were being insulted?

Nah, I'd walk away from that one with a smile.

(Actually, from other posts you have made, I think this is your little joke, cos you have a good command of Thai?)

I think that everyone visiting Thailand should be compelled to watch the film Lost In Translation.

A very funny film but with a powerful understanding of "face" and "misunderstanding".

You are quite right when you said: I think a sense of humour and a little humility makes you Uncle Tom.

[HardenedSoul]

When I was a child in the UK, we played with Gollywogs, ate Gollywog jams etc, it was not seen as a bad thing in those days. However, it was noted that it could be offensive to Western Oriental Gentleman and it was "banned".

The <deleted> word was used so often that we thought of them as lesser beings and didn't care if they heard us refer to them as <deleted>. For sure it lead to them being treated less well in general terms and to be treated with less respect than they deserved. After all, the war depleted the number of men in the UK. There were many unskilled jobs to be filled so the government bribed families from the West Indies with £50 to come over to the UK and be employed in the unskilled jobs.

When the term went away, there was IMO, an increase in respect and acceptance but it took a long time, decades to do so.

I think that the constant reminders that Kitsune mentions is somewhat similar to us using the term <deleted>.

(Maybe we are getting some of our own back?)

I take the point that a man is who he is regardless of what some locals call him but I don't agree that the use of the term Farang is anything less of a slur than <deleted>.

Maybe things are already changing since there are a number of posters who observe that the term Farang is not used in their faces, so to speak. Some locals seem to be making an attempt to be more politically correct but such a change will take a long time to complete.

Thailand was a closed, secret country for many years and Thai's are proud of that, they were not occupied by the French, British etc.

My wife tells me that many Thais resent the Farang, who flaunt their excessive wealth and have holier than thou attitudes.

As to being ripped off, well Cuba has effectively two official currency rates, a poor rate of exchange for visitors and a good one for locals. In Thailand the rates are unofficial and variable according to your prowess as a negotiator!

It's also true that there are many westerners here who are learning Thai and their ears may have become too sensitive to the word Farang and any time they hear a word that sounds like Farang they think that someone is being rude about them when they are not. The word they heard may not even have been Farang, it just sounded like it to the language novice.

Self image is important, someone with a poor or overbearing self image is easily spotted, as indeed is the quietly confident person. It is body language that helps everyone to appreciate this and it is an instinctual thing.

Dogs know if you are afraid or not.

Pack animals will attack those who display weakness.

Therefore, as has been said by many posters, be yourself, a quiet, respectful person and you will probably be treated with the same respect that you demonstrate. (Of course there will be exceptions to every rule )

Well at least you've made a coherent, reasoned argument here.

My parents were one of those West Indian families enticed to Britain in the 50s and 60s. The term "<deleted>" was never innocuous. Indeed, it was used alongside a couple of other well-known words as a derogatory term for black people.

Although you've made a valiant attempt to explain why posters like Kitsune and others feel as they do about the term "farang", I would question the comparisons you make between the use of the word "<deleted>" in Britain and the "farang" word in Thailand.

For one thing and, as I said earlier, the spectre of a white man being chased down the street by Thais intent on causing him bodily harm is nigh on unheard of. Not so in Britain where it was a regular occurrence. Skinheads and the like were very active during the 60s and 70s and even had their own "political" party, the National Front.

Our family regularly had dog faeces thrust through our letterbox by the local thugs; they intimidated my father to the point where he put two in hospital while defending his property and his family. By the time I was a teenager, my peers and I had become experts at handling racism but it usually involved knives, bats and - for one or two of them - firearms so when I hear foreigners whinging about the marginalisation they "endure" in Thailand by virtue of a simple, harmless word by locals who are known to go to any length not to offend people, I really do have to laugh . . . loud.

[longstebe]

Think it's great me, I can't be arsed spending my time worrying who or what people are calling me. Things go against you , things go for you.

Keep trucking. :-)

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[laislica]

When I was a child in the UK, we played with Gollywogs, ate Gollywog jams etc, it was not seen as a bad thing in those days. However, it was noted that it could be offensive to Western Oriental Gentleman and it was "banned".

The <deleted> word was used so often that we thought of them as lesser beings and didn't care if they heard us refer to them as <deleted>. For sure it lead to them being treated less well in general terms and to be treated with less respect than they deserved. After all, the war depleted the number of men in the UK. There were many unskilled jobs to be filled so the government bribed families from the West Indies with £50 to come over to the UK and be employed in the unskilled jobs.

When the term went away, there was IMO, an increase in respect and acceptance but it took a long time, decades to do so.

I think that the constant reminders that Kitsune mentions is somewhat similar to us using the term <deleted>.

(Maybe we are getting some of our own back?)

I take the point that a man is who he is regardless of what some locals call him but I don't agree that the use of the term Farang is anything less of a slur than <deleted>.

Maybe things are already changing since there are a number of posters who observe that the term Farang is not used in their faces, so to speak. Some locals seem to be making an attempt to be more politically correct but such a change will take a long time to complete.

Thailand was a closed, secret country for many years and Thai's are proud of that, they were not occupied by the French, British etc.

My wife tells me that many Thais resent the Farang, who flaunt their excessive wealth and have holier than thou attitudes.

As to being ripped off, well Cuba has effectively two official currency rates, a poor rate of exchange for visitors and a good one for locals. In Thailand the rates are unofficial and variable according to your prowess as a negotiator!

It's also true that there are many westerners here who are learning Thai and their ears may have become too sensitive to the word Farang and any time they hear a word that sounds like Farang they think that someone is being rude about them when they are not. The word they heard may not even have been Farang, it just sounded like it to the language novice.

Self image is important, someone with a poor or overbearing self image is easily spotted, as indeed is the quietly confident person. It is body language that helps everyone to appreciate this and it is an instinctual thing.

Dogs know if you are afraid or not.

Pack animals will attack those who display weakness.

Therefore, as has been said by many posters, be yourself, a quiet, respectful person and you will probably be treated with the same respect that you demonstrate. (Of course there will be exceptions to every rule )

Well at least you've made a coherent, reasoned argument here.

My parents were one of those West Indian families enticed to Britain in the 50s and 60s. The term "<deleted>" was never innocuous. Indeed, it was used alongside a couple of other well-known words as a derogatory term for black people.

Although you've made a valiant attempt to explain why posters like Kitsune and others feel as they do about the term "farang", I would question the comparisons you make between the use of the word "<deleted>" in Britain and the "farang" word in Thailand.

For one thing and, as I said earlier, the spectre of a white man being chased down the street by Thais intent on causing him bodily harm is nigh on unheard of. Not so in Britain where it was a regular occurrence. Skinheads and the like were very active during the 60s and 70s and even had their own "political" party, the National Front.

Our family regularly had dog faeces thrust through our letterbox by the local thugs; they intimidated my father to the point where he put two in hospital while defending his property and his family. By the time I was a teenager, my peers and I had become experts at handling racism but it usually involved knives, bats and - for one or two of them - firearms so when I hear foreigners whinging about the marginalisation they "endure" in Thailand by virtue of a simple, harmless word by locals who are known to go to any length not to offend people, I really do have to laugh . . . loud.

I was from a small town in the Midlands and we were never in the thick of things that took place in London, Manchester and other big cities.

What happened in my area was that some West Indians would arrive and an extended family would club together to buy a property, usually in a cheaper district which was also often somewhat run down. Other friends of theirs would do the same and a small community of West Indians would start to emerge.

Then the racism got going.

Locals would complain that the new comers made too much noise and your food was smelly etc.

Locals didn't want new comers as neighbours so sold up and moved on. House prices fell and ghetto's formed, it was a tragedy.

The Government hadn't thought the whole immigration thing through and no support for the new comers was available.

As the ghetto's expanded, so did the hatred, no go areas formed and all the bad stuff you mentioned in your post happened.

If the Government had organised council houses for the new comers (I wasn't happy with my lot/your lot) and made advertisements to the general public to advise the population what was happening and why, so that they were properly supported and integrated into the whole community, the problem may never have happened - who knows.

Maybe the Ministry of Culture here could do something to make Thai's aware of the feelings that some Westerners have regarding the use of Farang, maybe with small steps things might change.

On the other hand, why bother, the beating of Westerners by Thais is not a daily occurrence - yet.

I have to say that there are occasional reports on this forum of unprovoked attacks by Thai's on visitors.

Could it be time for a Stitch in time?

or is this a storm in a tea cup?

[Munger]

Just be who you are.

Be the 'farang', no worries....don't be the ATM, the Buffalo doctor etc..

Retain your common sense.

While these sound like old expat cliches, there are a lot of lessons to be learned therein dear friend.

If she wanted money she married the wrong man,lol.

I got nothing, They have more then me,

My wife is different

[irishken]

People that don't know me in the village refer to me as 'Farang' unless they know that I am Swiss, then it's 'Swisserland'. I was called Farang today by a kid in Tescos. I called back 'Thai, Thai', which people generally seem to think to be funny. In the family I am 'Christian name', uncle, father or granddad.

I find myself referring to 'the Lao guy' or 'the Cambodia guy' when I don't know their names.

A sense of humour and maybe a little humility makes life much easier, don't you think?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

good point.nobody ever called me farang but i heard in been mentioned but never taught it was in a bad way. Mostly i taught they were asking a lot of questions to my wife about what its like been married to a foreigner and living in a foreign land.

I made up plenty of names for the locals and cousins, mrs lao khao, mrs singha,mrs leo ect ect and we all got on great and still do. Everyone needs to lighten up and go with the flow

Edited May 14, 2013 by irishken

[HardenedSoul]

I was from a small town in the Midlands and we were never in the thick of things that took place in London, Manchester and other big cities.

What happened in my area was that some West Indians would arrive and an extended family would club together to buy a property, usually in a cheaper district which was also often somewhat run down. Other friends of theirs would do the same and a small community of West Indians would start to emerge.

Then the racism got going.

Locals would complain that the new comers made too much noise and your food was smelly etc.

Locals didn't want new comers as neighbours so sold up and moved on. House prices fell and ghetto's formed, it was a tragedy.

The Government hadn't thought the whole immigration thing through and no support for the new comers was available.

As the ghetto's expanded, so did the hatred, no go areas formed and all the bad stuff you mentioned in your post happened.

If the Government had organised council houses for the new comers (I wasn't happy with my lot/your lot) and made advertisements to the general public to advise the population what was happening and why, so that they were properly supported and integrated into the whole community, the problem may never have happened - who knows.

Maybe the Ministry of Culture here could do something to make Thai's aware of the feelings that some Westerners have regarding the use of Farang, maybe with small steps things might change.

On the other hand, why bother, the beating of Westerners by Thais is not a daily occurrence - yet.

I have to say that there are occasional reports on this forum of unprovoked attacks by Thai's on visitors.

Could it be time for a Stitch in time?

or is this a storm in a tea cup?

Why on earth would the Ministry of Culture tackle a non-issue? As I said earlier, most (and I do mean most) foreigners don't find the term insulting.

When all's said and done, there just aren't enough foreigners here to justify an intervention of the magnitude to which you allude. The white folks who turn up here aren't here to work and those that are don't compete with the locals for jobs or housing.

Having said that, though, there are lots of Burmese and Laotians here who could potentially compete with the Thais for those things at some point; maybe a recession or something. If the Ministry of Culture was gonna do something, it'd probably be for them rather than wealthy, pompous Westerners, eh?

Having been here only 5 years, I can't say for certain that the day won't come when foreigners need fear for their safety in Thailand but, going on what I've seen thus far, I just don't think the Thais are wired that way . . . unless they're provoked as many loud-mouthed, pissed up morons have discovered.

[rayongchelsea]

Sorry somehow the quotes got lost..

Edited May 14, 2013 by rayongchelsea

[SeaVisionBurma]

Another flame removed.

This thread has run its course.

//CLOSED//