Move Carefully On Boosting Military Ties With China

[yoshiwara]

Of course the Thai military is interested in getting closer to China. China does not have those pesky laws against bribery on military material procurement that the west has. Nor do the Chinese make funding contingent on such annoyances as human rights or environmental protection safeguards. Chinese NGOs and charities do not meddle in Thailand pushing such "bad for business" concepts as fair wages and safe working conditions.

Considering the fact that China recently invaded India and has continually pushed its greater empire expansionist plans, any Thai that would propose getting closer to China should have his/her motives closely scrutinized. I find it interesting that the proponents of closer relations with China are the same groups that claim an over riding love of King and country. And yet the Chinese would destroy the Thai culture, attack the Royal House and who would consume Thailand's resources. One need only look at the recent seizures of endangered wildlife and timber to understand that China sees Thailand as a low cost larder where anything goes.

Thailand should seek peaceful relations with China and build economic ties, but it must not whore itself out so that a few can make short term profits, while leaving the rest of the population indentured servants of China.

Given Thaksin's record on bribery and corruption he would be right at home.

As for the ridiculous claim that China would destroy Thai culture (oh how some Thaksin apologists love to play the anti-Chinese card) maybe they should remind themselves yet again that Thaksin hails from a Thai Chinese background. As for Thailand's home grown reds an echo of Maoism rings loud and clear.

Thaksin is not particularly close to the Chinese. The Chinese are capable of managing someone like Thaksin and they see him for what he is. He is expendable and treated no differently then any other local political faction leader that has a bit of a following. He is there to be used to further Chinese political goals.

You are making an error when you assume that the supporters of closer relations with China are aligned with one particular party. On the contrary, both those that sympathize with China and those that are resisters of Chinese influence cross political lines. You are also mistaken about the redshirts allegiance to China. Those redshirts have more in common with ultra nationalist yellow shirts because they want a Thailand first policy.

How is it being a Thaksin apologist to point out the historical realities of modern China when it expands its influence? One need only look at the Chinese policy in Tibet to understand that point. China set out to dismantle Tibetan culture by selecting its own Dalai Lama. Nothing new in that as the Chinese did the same thing with the once important Catholic Church in China allowing only those religious leaders and priests that complied with the party line. The monarchy in Thailand is a unifying force and an integral party of Thai identity. If China wishes to expand its influence it must get rid of the cultural and social structures that unify a people and act as a counter influence to the spread of China.

China has dumped cheap and shoddy consumer goods into the Thai market slowly but surely eroding Thailand's manufacturing sector. This slow, but steady approach has weakened Thailand's economic independence. China has dangled money and incentives in front of some entrenched greedy elites who have gladly sold out their nation for their own personal gain.

As an aside, you have allowed your obsession with Thaksin to blind you to the reality. Thaksin is far closer to some groups in the Gulf States than he is to China. He covets the Gulf State oil and their money to finance his grandiose schemes. I suggest to you that this relationship is far tighter than what he has with China although it is just as dangerous.

To suggest that China's behaviour towards regions/countries perceived (by PRC)as being within Chinese borders eg Tibet, would be replicated in Thailand is just not on. My reference to Thakin and the reds was not to suggest that they have any particular affinity for the PRC, merely that their unpleasant behaviour has echoes from both present and past behaviour patterns in the PRC. Re Thaksin, Thaksin is exactly the issue despite attempts by stalwart defenders to kick it into the long grass.

[asiamaster]

Has no one heard of the Chinese "two ocean strategy" ?

Mark my words: the days of the Mongol Empire will return...

So the Mongols were Chinese?

Yes and no. They are also called Mongol Chinese and it started off with Genghis Kahn. From wikipedia:

By the time of Kublai Kahn's death in 1294, the Mongol Empire had fractured into four separate khanates or empires, each pursuing its own separate interests and objectives:the Golden Horde khanate in the northwest, the Chagatai Khanate in the west, the Ilkhanate in the southwest, and the Yuan Dynasty based in modern-day Beijing. In 1304, the three western khanates briefly accepted the nominal suzerainty of the Yuan Dynasty (modern day China), but when it was overthrown by the Han Chinese Ming Dynasty in 1368, the Mongol Empire finally dissolved.

[asiamaster]

As part owners of Laos and their huge Industrial Park just across the river from The Golden Triangle in Laos they are moving 1 million people there. What kind of defense treaty would Thailand have to keep them out of Chiang Rai.

Not only there but as far south as Pakse in Southern Laos they have migrated people. Now take a guess what kind of Chinese people these are?

Well as nobody took a guess: the Chinese are moving hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of their MUSLIMS into Laos. This reminds me of Adolf Hitler's original plan (as described in Mein Kampf) to migrate all the Jews to farms in the Ukraine to crow crops for the Reich.

[geriatrickid]

Thaksin has nothing to do with the efforts of some to foster closer military relationships with China. The US has laws that make bribery on military procurement contracts difficult. China and the military industrial complex are one entity and bribery for the Chinese is a way of life. Arms sales to a country like Thailand must be approved by the US Congress and the issue of human rights and military coups would arise. The Chinese do not care about such things. Some would forget that Thaksin went to plead his case to the west, before he went to the Chinese and Thaksin still uses the military coup and all it entailed to curry sympathy with western governments. As such, I hardly think Thaksin has much of a role to play. Rather, it is the Thai military looking for its usual spoils.

[Publicus]

An increasing attempt in Thailand to become more oriented towards Beijing, as discussed by the OP, is becoming associated with one political party in particular, i.e., the Democrat party and Abhisit.

The US "rebalance" towards the Asia-Pacific is being met with resistance from certain Thai media, which expressed concerns that this new US-Thai security agreement could spoil Thailand's increasing buddying up with the PRChina amidst the end of Beijing's own mythical "peaceful rise."

The strongest reaction came from the Yellow Shirts' media outlets. They tried to frame US reengagement in the Asia- Pacific as an attempt to contain and even to provoke the already aggressive and belligerent PRChina. The elitist yellow shirts instead worry that the U.S.'s "Pivot to the Pacific" would have negative implications for Thailand and polarize the region as a whole, when in fact it is Beijing that is working to polarize and divide Asean by menacing the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, India, causing Indonesia to side with its Asean partners and neighbors.

The Democrat party and the yellows choose to ignore the fact and reality Thailand is a formal treaty ally of the United States..

Further, last June, this same mistrust stirred by the Democrat Party and Yellow Shirts, resulted in PM Yingluck's delaying approval of NASA's request to use the U-Tapao airbase for atmospheric studies in Southeast Asia, Cynically, this civilian research project got mixed in with US-Thai agreement to explore possibilities of using the same airbase as a possible logistical center for US Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HA/DR) operations throughout the region. There were widespread Democrat party and yellow shirt suspicions of military operations behind the NASA project and a pro-Beijing concern that the United States would utilize the airbase to spy upon China. Abhisit said it was a scheme to "contain China."

The Pheu Thai government handled this entire U.S. request horrendously, leading many thai and foreign analysts to present Thailand as being unreceptive to cooperating with its formal treaty ally, the United States, even in purely civilian related matters. Once again this was another incident when thai domestic politics complicated its foreign affairs, which a point that Washington took notice of. Clearly, Thailand's turbulent domestic conflicts have the potential to disrupt closer US-Thai military-to-military collaboration at a time when the United States is seeking to deepen and to expand its relationship with allies throughout the region.

So there is one particular political party in Thailand that unashamedly marches to Beijing's tune - the Democrat party and its leader, Abhisit.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Publicus

[yoshiwara]

Thaksin has nothing to do with the efforts of some to foster closer military relationships with China. The US has laws that make bribery on military procurement contracts difficult. China and the military industrial complex are one entity and bribery for the Chinese is a way of life. Arms sales to a country like Thailand must be approved by the US Congress and the issue of human rights and military coups would arise. The Chinese do not care about such things. Some would forget that Thaksin went to plead his case to the west, before he went to the Chinese and Thaksin still uses the military coup and all it entailed to curry sympathy with western governments. As such, I hardly think Thaksin has much of a role to play. Rather, it is the Thai military looking for its usual spoils.

I agree. You 'hardly think'. To suggest that Thaksin is able to curry sympathy on the back of the coup is pure fantasy from the land of 'King Taksin'. In the immediate term China wishes to neutralise ASEAN in its territorial battles with Philippines, Japan etc. Currently it has Cambodia in its back pocket. Name of advisor to Cambodia anyone? China mood music towards Thailand part of that strategic initiative.

[metisdead]

Some off topic nonsense posts have been removed.

[Whiskylover]

Well as nobody took a guess: the Chinese are moving hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of their MUSLIMS into Laos. This reminds me of Adolf Hitler's original plan (as described in Mein Kampf) to migrate all the Jews to farms in the Ukraine to crow crops for the Reich.

Do you have a source for this information ?

Considering the vast majority of the muslims in China are in Xingjiang and Gansu province... that's a pretty long way away.

WL

[chiangmaikelly]

Thailand now gets its military hardware from the US. It gets its training from the US. Its pilots know how to fly the far superior US fighter jets, just as an example. It would lose a lot of ground in training, even in battle rifles, and in equipment superiority if it decided to align itself with China.

The US won't sell hardware or provide training to any country which allies itself with a country that isn't considered an ally. For instance, let's all belly laugh about the prospects Syria would have of buying any US weapons. They are stuck with Russian crap because that's the choice they made.

I can just see Thailand trading its M-16's for Chinese AK-47's or AK-74's. Talk about crap. Same with their "fighters." They can only dream of stealth, or of pylon mounted heads-up precision guided rockets.

China just built its first military cargo plane. What a joke and it's in the testing stages. The US, by taking the wings off that plane could literally carry it inside the US's big cargo plane. I mean it would literally fit inside, and the plane could carry the weight.

But I seriously haven't seen Thailand do anything yet that's smart. The government is a mess, they destroyed their position as a great rice exporter... I could go on but no need. It seems like they live in their own dream world.

You wrote, "But I seriously haven't seen Thailand do anything yet that's smart. The government is a mess, they destroyed their position as a great rice exporter... I could go on but no need. It seems like they live in their own dream world."

You don't live in Thailand. In the past 469 months you have spent maybe 1 in Thailand. How would you see if Thailand did anything smart? How would you know if they live in a dream world? And who are you to judge if an Asian country with full employment, no hunger and universal health care is doing anything smart? Do you think getting rid of Thaksin was not smart? How about being the largest exporter of light trucks in the world? Is that smart? Nissan and Honda are going to build new auto plants in Thailand this year, do you think that's smart or are Nissan, Honda, Ford, Mercedes and BMW not smart for building auto plants in Thailand?

Why bash Thailand by saying things like, "But I seriously haven't seen Thailand do anything yet that's smart."? You have never lived in Thailand. How would you know? Why would you say things like that?

[yoshiwara]

As part owners of Laos and their huge Industrial Park just across the river from The Golden Triangle in Laos they are moving 1 million people there. What kind of defense treaty would Thailand have to keep them out of Chiang Rai.

Not only there but as far south as Pakse in Southern Laos they have migrated people. Now take a guess what kind of Chinese people these are?

Well as nobody took a guess: the Chinese are moving hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of their MUSLIMS into Laos. This reminds me of Adolf Hitler's original plan (as described in Mein Kampf) to migrate all the Jews to farms in the Ukraine to crow crops for the Reich.

What a load of old nonsense. Yet again the anti-China card played as a proxy for the anti-Chinese Thai story. But yes a free pass for Thaksin who is an honorary non-Chinese Thai for red supporters. Watch them tie themselves up in knots every time.

[sharecropper]

It is actually the Vietnamese who are (economically and demographically) invading Southern Laos, not the Chinese.

[smedly]

well here we are some 70 posts later all based on a statement from Sukampol Suwannathat who seems to have forgotten to connect his mouth with some grey matter before opening - I doubt this man has the remotest idea of what he said or why or the implications

should we give him a fools pardon ? I think so - along with the rest

[DonaldBattles]

Did not know before that China had decided to dump its Muslim population in Laos. Very convenient for them. Maybe they will try to take over Chiang Sean. The new bridge will make it easier for the hordes to get here.

[jayboy]

Thaksin has nothing to do with the efforts of some to foster closer military relationships with China. The US has laws that make bribery on military procurement contracts difficult. China and the military industrial complex are one entity and bribery for the Chinese is a way of life. Arms sales to a country like Thailand must be approved by the US Congress and the issue of human rights and military coups would arise. The Chinese do not care about such things. Some would forget that Thaksin went to plead his case to the west, before he went to the Chinese and Thaksin still uses the military coup and all it entailed to curry sympathy with western governments. As such, I hardly think Thaksin has much of a role to play. Rather, it is the Thai military looking for its usual spoils.

I agree. You 'hardly think'. To suggest that Thaksin is able to curry sympathy on the back of the coup is pure fantasy from the land of 'King Taksin'. In the immediate term China wishes to neutralise ASEAN in its territorial battles with Philippines, Japan etc. Currently it has Cambodia in its back pocket. Name of advisor to Cambodia anyone? China mood music towards Thailand part of that strategic initiative.

I'm not sure that China needs Thaksin for the mood music as you suggest:it might be marginally helpful but it's not a big factor.On no side of Thailand's political divide is there any wish to confront China and the establishment's deferential approach is very evident.As you correctly point out Cambodia is already a vassal state (or as near to that status as makes no difference.) Look at the huge Chinese development near Sihanoukville which will become a deep water port with naval facilities.Look at the 2012 ASEAN meeting in Phnom Penh where Chinese pressure on Cambodia managed to veto a joint statement (for the first time ever).China is already pushing its weight around in ASEAN and rather successfully, without being a member.In the longer term China's bullying in ASEAN will have to take account of countries like Vietnam and Indonesia who - unlike Thailand - are no pushover.Also in those countries China's Sudetenland approach doesn't work because the diaspora is too small.China's attitude to Thaksin is based on its own interests.There would be no particular sympathy with him because its overt expression would be divisive and thus against China's interests.If against the odds Thaksin managed to patch up a workable deal with those that hate him, the Chinese would be happy to work with him.All power groups however are friendly to China so why go out on a limb if not necessary?

[Thai at Heart]

Thaksin has nothing to do with the efforts of some to foster closer military relationships with China. The US has laws that make bribery on military procurement contracts difficult. China and the military industrial complex are one entity and bribery for the Chinese is a way of life. Arms sales to a country like Thailand must be approved by the US Congress and the issue of human rights and military coups would arise. The Chinese do not care about such things. Some would forget that Thaksin went to plead his case to the west, before he went to the Chinese and Thaksin still uses the military coup and all it entailed to curry sympathy with western governments. As such, I hardly think Thaksin has much of a role to play. Rather, it is the Thai military looking for its usual spoils.

I agree. You 'hardly think'. To suggest that Thaksin is able to curry sympathy on the back of the coup is pure fantasy from the land of 'King Taksin'. In the immediate term China wishes to neutralise ASEAN in its territorial battles with Philippines, Japan etc. Currently it has Cambodia in its back pocket. Name of advisor to Cambodia anyone? China mood music towards Thailand part of that strategic initiative.

I'm not sure that China needs Thaksin for the mood music as you suggest:it might be marginally helpful but it's not a big factor.On no side of Thailand's political divide is there any wish to confront China and the establishment's deferential approach is very evident.As you correctly point out Cambodia is already a vassal state (or as near to that status as makes no difference.) Look at the huge Chinese development near Sihanoukville which will become a deep water port with naval facilities.Look at the 2012 ASEAN meeting in Phnom Penh where Chinese pressure on Cambodia managed to veto a joint statement (for the first time ever).China is already pushing its weight around in ASEAN and rather successfully, without being a member.In the longer term China's bullying in ASEAN will have to take account of countries like Vietnam and Indonesia who - unlike Thailand - are no pushover.Also in those countries China's Sudetenland approach doesn't work because the diaspora is too small.China's attitude to Thaksin is based on its own interests.There would be no particular sympathy with him because its overt expression would be divisive and thus against China's interests.If against the odds Thaksin managed to patch up a workable deal with those that hate him, the Chinese would be happy to work with him.All power groups however are friendly to China so why go out on a limb if not necessary?

The Chinese deal with the owner of cp vis a vis issues in Thailand not thaksin.

[spermwhale]

I see China as a country who does a lot of good in the world producing cost effective products that we all use. I haven't observed the Chinese government threatening others as the North Korean government does. U.S. may need to move some balance of forces to the Philippines and other locations from Japan due to the Japanese nuclear radiation problems and probability for even worse earthquakes. I don't think its due to any military problems with the Chinese. I don't think it would hurt for Thailand to keep open the lines of communications with the Chinese including military forces.

Open lines of communication is one thing, but that is not what this is about. Thailand does have to choose because one day China will agitate and this whole region better be prepared to take sides. It is, in fact, the US, Japan and Australia on one side and China on the other. Do not think for a minute that China, which things long term unlike most other countries, has its sights set on eventual domination of the entire of East Asia.

By expanding military ties with China, Thailand is making a huge misstep.

[chiangmaikelly]

I see China as a country who does a lot of good in the world producing cost effective products that we all use. I haven't observed the Chinese government threatening others as the North Korean government does. U.S. may need to move some balance of forces to the Philippines and other locations from Japan due to the Japanese nuclear radiation problems and probability for even worse earthquakes. I don't think its due to any military problems with the Chinese. I don't think it would hurt for Thailand to keep open the lines of communications with the Chinese including military forces.

Open lines of communication is one thing, but that is not what this is about. Thailand does have to choose because one day China will agitate and this whole region better be prepared to take sides. It is, in fact, the US, Japan and Australia on one side and China on the other. Do not think for a minute that China, which things long term unlike most other countries, has its sights set on eventual domination of the entire of East Asia.

By expanding military ties with China, Thailand is making a huge misstep.

I used to think China thought long term like you suggest then along came Tiananmen square. Now I think they are as dumb as the rest of us. Thailand may be the one exception.

[Baerboxer]

With friends like the US, one hardly needs any enemies. China is practically Thailand's neighbor, and the US is on the other side of the world. How many Thai people have a Chinese ancestry, and how many have an American ancestry? The future lies in the East. The choice is easy.

A grim future.....After seeing China seize Tibet, gobble up Laos like a snack, and move into mega sabre rattling mode in the South China Sea by claiming practically every island out there as " former" Chinese territory, I am frankly astounded that Thailand would even consider a closer relation with China......

Regarding who should be allies with who, do some research and see what China has done for Thailand over the years, and what America has done for Thailand over the years. You will find a considerable difference between the actions of the two countries.. :-)

And in the past America (or Britain and France) never behaved like this! Gobbling up other peolpes' lands, telling them what the law would be and inposing their viewpoints. No siree! Just altruistic benfactors.

China is cleverly moving into Africa and other devloping areas, expanding its influence, and protecting what it sees as its rightful borders. No different to what the former colonial powers did up to WW11 and what the US did afer. Let's not pretend differently.

I agree totally that this is potentially very dangerous. But, its a pattern repeated often in history.

Thailand does not seem to be so divided as other countries, and pursues dialogue and relarions with the US and China. Maybe we all need to learn something from Thailand's non polarised approach.

[asiamaster]

Well as nobody took a guess: the Chinese are moving hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of their MUSLIMS into Laos. This reminds me of Adolf Hitler's original plan (as described in Mein Kampf) to migrate all the Jews to farms in the Ukraine to crow crops for the Reich.

Do you have a source for this information ?

Considering the vast majority of the muslims in China are in Xingjiang and Gansu province... that's a pretty long way away.

WL

Yes - personal connections in Laos and vested interests in Chiang Khong where the 4th Thai - Laos bridge will be opened shortly. The Chinese have already completed the highway from Yunnan province through Laos to the bridge. Agreed with your statement about the majority of muslims but there are (or rather were) quite a few in Southern Yunnan.

[asiamaster]

It is actually the Vietnamese who are (economically and demographically) invading Southern Laos, not the Chinese.

Correct! But also the Thais. And have you heard of the saying "when two dogs fight for a bone....."

[hansnl]

I see China as a country who does a lot of good in the world producing cost effective products that we all use. I haven't observed the Chinese government threatening others as the North Korean government does. U.S. may need to move some balance of forces to the Philippines and other locations from Japan due to the Japanese nuclear radiation problems and probability for even worse earthquakes. I don't think its due to any military problems with the Chinese. I don't think it would hurt for Thailand to keep open the lines of communications with the Chinese including military forces.

I suppose you are still asleep?

Never heard about the "trouble" in the yellow sea?

The buildup of the military of China and it's plans to have a stronger "representation" in the area.

And why do you think China is doing a lot of good in the world?

Through it's one sided trade?

Wake up!

[NeverSure]

Thailand now gets its military hardware from the US. It gets its training from the US. Its pilots know how to fly the far superior US fighter jets, just as an example. It would lose a lot of ground in training, even in battle rifles, and in equipment superiority if it decided to align itself with China.

The US won't sell hardware or provide training to any country which allies itself with a country that isn't considered an ally. For instance, let's all belly laugh about the prospects Syria would have of buying any US weapons. They are stuck with Russian crap because that's the choice they made.

I can just see Thailand trading its M-16's for Chinese AK-47's or AK-74's. Talk about crap. Same with their "fighters." They can only dream of stealth, or of pylon mounted heads-up precision guided rockets.

China just built its first military cargo plane. What a joke and it's in the testing stages. The US, by taking the wings off that plane could literally carry it inside the US's big cargo plane. I mean it would literally fit inside, and the plane could carry the weight.

But I seriously haven't seen Thailand do anything yet that's smart. The government is a mess, they destroyed their position as a great rice exporter... I could go on but no need. It seems like they live in their own dream world.

You wrote, "But I seriously haven't seen Thailand do anything yet that's smart. The government is a mess, they destroyed their position as a great rice exporter... I could go on but no need. It seems like they live in their own dream world."

You don't live in Thailand. In the past 469 months you have spent maybe 1 in Thailand. How would you see if Thailand did anything smart? How would you know if they live in a dream world? And who are you to judge if an Asian country with full employment, no hunger and universal health care is doing anything smart? Do you think getting rid of Thaksin was not smart? How about being the largest exporter of light trucks in the world? Is that smart? Nissan and Honda are going to build new auto plants in Thailand this year, do you think that's smart or are Nissan, Honda, Ford, Mercedes and BMW not smart for building auto plants in Thailand?

Why bash Thailand by saying things like, "But I seriously haven't seen Thailand do anything yet that's smart."? You have never lived in Thailand. How would you know? Why would you say things like that?

This thread is about Thai relationships with China.

Where do you get anything about the Thai economy out of it?

Edited May 13, 2013 by NeverSure

[Publicus]

Thaksin has nothing to do with the efforts of some to foster closer military relationships with China. The US has laws that make bribery on military procurement contracts difficult. China and the military industrial complex are one entity and bribery for the Chinese is a way of life. Arms sales to a country like Thailand must be approved by the US Congress and the issue of human rights and military coups would arise. The Chinese do not care about such things. Some would forget that Thaksin went to plead his case to the west, before he went to the Chinese and Thaksin still uses the military coup and all it entailed to curry sympathy with western governments. As such, I hardly think Thaksin has much of a role to play. Rather, it is the Thai military looking for its usual spoils.

Yes, Stephen J Flanagan who holds the Henry Kissinger Chair at the (private) Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, states precisely your point.

In his analysis of Thai military to military relations with each the PRChina and the U.S., "Strings Attached to U.S. Alliance," Flanagan states that the requirements of the U.S. government for military assistance to treaty ally Thailand "are increasingly irksome, and Chinese military assistance to Thailand after the U.S. suspension of assistance following the 2006 coup is appreciatively noted. Although the Thai military might not be a naturally hospitable institution for Chinese influence, it thinks in terms of costs and strategic autonomy, thus leading it to seek diversification in terms of both arms procurement and strategic outlook".

Flanagan also points out that the Thai military had expected to continue to receive "friendship prices" in its plans to purchase newer and better armaments from Beijing, and that the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency had become uncomfortable that, in the Thai military's desire to continue to receive Beijing's friendship prices, some technologies of U.S. military hardware transferred to Thailand might be compromised.

However, while the recent Thai governments have remained silent over Beijing's "unpeaceful rise" in South China Sea beefs, and concerning Beijing's recent high profile hostilities against Japan over disputed islands - and now aggression against India - the Thai military had begun to distance itself from Beijing, to include any weapons purchases and any strategic realignments.

In other words, the Sino-Thai military to military relationship of the past has changed as the Thai military, largely unpopulated by Sino-Thais, returns to its already comprehensively close relationship with the U.S.

This is evident in considering that since the early 1980s, Thailand had purchased armaments and military-related equipment at “friendship prices” from the PRChina, much of which effectively amounted to what Flanagan calls “military gift aid.” Sino-Thai military links had become among some of the most developed among Asean member states - second only to Myanmar while Myanmar had been China’s quasi ally. Again, the Thai cultural conceit was at play, i.e., that Thailand could intentionally balance its military and financial dependence on the United States by nurturing better relations with China.

At a deeper level however, Sino-Thai defense exercises and other military exchanges, which had been progressively advancing over the years nonetheless quantitatively and qualitatively lagged far behind the US-Thai security relations.

I mean, really, a typical U.S. -Thai Cobra Gold annual exercise in Thailand - consisting of 12,000 troops involving several countries over two weeks - dwarfs the largest Sino-Thai drill, which was a 2005 naval operation that ended in less than four hours. This brevity of the drill seems especially odd considering Chinese made warships constitute the backbone of the Thai Navy (or perhaps because of it). The Thai Navy seems to recognize that, as with useless army weapons purchased from the PRChina rusting in warehouses, the Thai Navy is populated by junk warships.

The fact remains the PRChina still does not possess the same military capabilities as those of the United States, and certainly lacks the sophisticated military know-how to be able to lure Thailand away from its sometimes troublesome but consistently reliable and long term high-tech U.S. friend and ally.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Publicus

[EyesWideOpen]

"Flanagan also points out that the Thai military had expected to continue to receive "friendship prices" in its plans to purchase newer and better armaments from Beijing, and that the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency had become uncomfortable that, in the Thai military's desire to continue to receive Beijing's friendship prices, some technologies of U.S. military hardware transferred to Thailand might be compromised."

An interesting concept, that with Thailand beefing up military ties with China, there would be fears of technology " transfer" to China. Well I guess that means Thailand will no longer be getting front line aircraft fighters.

Mostly likely not an issue, as I cannot imagine any scenario in which Thailand would use fighter aircraft in anger against another country. Laos has no planes, the Cambodian air force planes I am pretty sure cannot fly, and Burma is the new country to be swallowed by China. So I guess that leaves ......nobody. Malaysia has an actual air force, so best to leave them alone.

[chiangmaikelly]

"Flanagan also points out that the Thai military had expected to continue to receive "friendship prices" in its plans to purchase newer and better armaments from Beijing, and that the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency had become uncomfortable that, in the Thai military's desire to continue to receive Beijing's friendship prices, some technologies of U.S. military hardware transferred to Thailand might be compromised."

An interesting concept, that with Thailand beefing up military ties with China, there would be fears of technology " transfer" to China. Well I guess that means Thailand will no longer be getting front line aircraft fighters.

Mostly likely not an issue, as I cannot imagine any scenario in which Thailand would use fighter aircraft in anger against another country. Laos has no planes, the Cambodian air force planes I am pretty sure cannot fly, and Burma is the new country to be swallowed by China. So I guess that leaves ......nobody. Malaysia has an actual air force, so best to leave them alone.

Did you forget Vietnam?

[EyesWideOpen]

"Flanagan also points out that the Thai military had expected to continue to receive "friendship prices" in its plans to purchase newer and better armaments from Beijing, and that the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency had become uncomfortable that, in the Thai military's desire to continue to receive Beijing's friendship prices, some technologies of U.S. military hardware transferred to Thailand might be compromised."

An interesting concept, that with Thailand beefing up military ties with China, there would be fears of technology " transfer" to China. Well I guess that means Thailand will no longer be getting front line aircraft fighters.

Mostly likely not an issue, as I cannot imagine any scenario in which Thailand would use fighter aircraft in anger against another country. Laos has no planes, the Cambodian air force planes I am pretty sure cannot fly, and Burma is the new country to be swallowed by China. So I guess that leaves ......nobody. Malaysia has an actual air force, so best to leave them alone.

Did you forget Vietnam?

Hahaha no I did not forget. But after watching the Vietnamese defeat France and America, and stave off the Chinese, I am fairly positive that Thailand wants NOTHING to do with Vietnam on a military playing field. In fact if you watch Thai news, Vietnam is scarcely ever mentioned except for when Vietnam produced more rice for export than Thailand.

[djlest]

With friends like the US, one hardly needs any enemies. China is practically Thailand's neighbor, and the US is on the other side of the world. How many Thai people have a Chinese ancestry, and how many have an American ancestry? The future lies in the East. The choice is easy.

A grim future.....After seeing China seize Tibet, gobble up Laos like a snack, and move into mega sabre rattling mode in the South China Sea by claiming practically every island out there as " former" Chinese territory, I am frankly astounded that Thailand would even consider a closer relation with China......

Regarding who should be allies with who, do some research and see what China has done for Thailand over the years, and what America has done for Thailand over the years. You will find a considerable difference between the actions of the two countries.. :-)

No offence but how well do you know Thai thinking?

Its not about who has done what for who in the past, Sure america may have done more for Thailand back in the day.

But Thais only think about NOW! Current government is only interested in what can be done(exploited/raped) during the current term of power.

Its never about tomorrow with Thai's. You can give them the world, but if they think they can get a better deal somewhere else, they will jump ship without a glance back. And thats exactly what they are about to do!

p.s. ask any Thai, has Thailand ever lost a war?

Every single Thai i have ever asked says, NO NEVER! We have never lost a war!

What about Burma? No they just stole our Gold and went back home..

Seriously, they think they are invincible...

[tullynagardy]

Well I guess that means Thailand will no longer be getting front line aircraft fighters.

Thailand gets its latest fighter aircraft from Sweden, not the US

[EyesWideOpen]

Well I guess that means Thailand will no longer be getting front line aircraft fighters.

Thailand gets its latest fighter aircraft from Sweden, not the US

Nope, right now flying American F-16A/B planes.... Hahaha, yeah I forgot about the about the fabulous frozen chicken for Gripen fighter jets deal. Did that actually come to pass ?? I thought that was just a sound bite for the press.

From Wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Air_Force

Squadron Wing Equipment RTAF Base Notes

201 Helicopter Sqn Wing 2 S-92/Bell 412 Khok Ka Thiem Royal Guard

203 Helicopter Sqn Wing 2 UH-1H Khok Ka Thiem

102 Fighter Sqn Wing 1 F-16A/B ADF Korat

103 Fighter Sqn Wing 1 F-16A/B Korat

Edited May 25, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[yoshiwara]

You are making an error when you assume that the supporters of closer relations with China are aligned with one particular party. On the contrary, both those that sympathize with China and those that are resisters of Chinese influence cross political lines. You are also mistaken about the redshirts allegiance to China. Those redshirts have more in common with ultra nationalist yellow shirts because they want a Thailand first policy.

I didn't say that at all. What I did allude to was Thaksin's corruption and corruption in China. You should read more carefully before going off on an irrelevant tangent. As for straight politics (other than purely having as an objective feeding at and seizing the trough) there might be some interest looking at our old friend Thida the old Stalinist warhorse and now leader of the Thaksin masses. The CPT sided with China in the Sino-Soviet dispute so she might be happier than usual with current developments. Edited May 26, 2013 by yoshiwara