Fined 15,000 Baht For "smuggling"

[marstons]

Well look on the bright side you have friends to chip in and pay the fine 5 ways so not to bad after all. I mean they will do that that wont they seeing as you were helping them

[cardholder]

110 baht a carton, so probably fake as well

Yes, my friend prefers them to the 300 Baht fakes at the Chong Chom border.

So next time tell your friend to make his own trip across the border as this one cost you 14,335 baht. I understand being a nice guy and doing favors for friends, but when it places you in a questionable position with the BiB, best to just smile and say you can no longer do this as a favor.

I understand.

Ironically, he does go himself AND he wasn't aware that I had been.

There were a couple of things we needed and it was a trip out for 2 sisters and one of their neighbours. I actually wanted to get some wine and was going to get the ladies to use their 'duty free allowance,' of one bottle of liquor per adult, to increase my wine stock. There was very little there that I liked the look of so I decided not to buy liquor for the sake of it. The cigarettes were a secondary purchase - to utilise allowances.

I have to say that he has offered to pay half the 'fine'. I declined as believe it is my issue and, to a degree, my naivety.

As I started by saying, this thread is as much about warning others not to make my mistake.

Edited May 12, 2013 by cardholder

[jackspratt]

.

ps you should have no problems finding "lawyers" on TV - I suggest you take a quick glance in the Thailand News forum. That is infested with them.

Ahhh! ...... how prescient.

Did you break the law? i do not think so.

Were you scammed- most definitely

Going legal is sure a possibility, but think about the money involved.

Lawyer would have cost you around 20K-25K, so in the end you are out of pocket about the same, sure on principle it feels better but end result is the same(out of pocket)

About law being broken: You would be guilty if you were stopped at the border with over the allowed amount, however you were stopped way after that and at this point it is not relevant, only because you, wife, sister etc can each bring certain amount and give it to whoever they like, in your case they chose to give it to you-perfectly legal.

Edited May 12, 2013 by jackspratt

[lemoncake]

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ps you should have no problems finding "lawyers" on TV - I suggest you take a quick glance in the Thailand News forum. That is infested with them.

Ahhh! ...... how prescient.

>Did you break the law? i do not think so.

Were you scammed- most definitely

Going legal is sure a possibility, but think about the money involved.

Lawyer would have cost you around 20K-25K, so in the end you are out of pocket about the same, sure on principle it feels better but end result is the same(out of pocket)

About law being broken: You would be guilty if you were stopped at the border with over the allowed amount, however you were stopped way after that and at this point it is not relevant, only because you, wife, sister etc can each bring certain amount and give it to whoever they like, in your case they chose to give it to you-perfectly legal.

Did someone say common sense and logic?

[breadbin]

But far fetched this story for me.I was taken in but when customs followed op and his wife and then the mention of a Cambodian snitch.Mmm..Not for me this one Good luck.

What would you like - a signed affadavit, or a copy of the receipt for 14,355 Baht -

Just my opinion mate.

You played the game and seem to have lost, got caught and fined if its true.

You were out to make money and were you going to declare the income?

You were selling so do you have a wp?

I could go in but still feel it is far fetched.

Good luck.

[daboyz1]

Sometimes TVF really amazes me. I post on a U.S. immigration website daily, and sometimes here. The negativity here is off the charts. I wonder if some of these folks were this way before they came to Thailand, or that somehow living in Thailand made them this way?

I plan on moving back to Thailand in a few years. Sometimes spending time browsing here makes me hope I never run into another farang where I'll be living.

[cardholder]

Sometimes TVF really amazes me. I post on a U.S. immigration website daily, and sometimes here. The negativity here is off the charts. I wonder if some of these folks were this way before they came to Thailand, or that somehow living in Thailand made them this way?

I plan on moving back to Thailand in a few years. Sometimes spending time browsing here makes me hope I never run into another farang where I'll be living.

Please don't judge ALL Farangs on the evidence of Thai Visa postings.

Thereare some good guys on here - admittedly, I would not wish to be anywhete near breadbin!

[daboyz1]

Sometimes TVF really amazes me. I post on a U.S. immigration website daily, and sometimes here. The negativity here is off the charts. I wonder if some of these folks were this way before they came to Thailand, or that somehow living in Thailand made them this way?

I plan on moving back to Thailand in a few years. Sometimes spending time browsing here makes me hope I never run into another farang where I'll be living.

Please don't judge ALL Farangs on the evidence of Thai Visa postings.

Thereare some good guys on here - admittedly, I would not wish to be anywhete near breadbin!

I hear ya. I lived in BKK from 2004-2007 and met some pretty decent folks there. Seems like alot of angry people posting here. I guess I don't understand why people feel the need to come out and basically call people liars on a message board. What purpose does that serve? Better to not post at all.

Edited May 13, 2013 by daboyz1

[oxymoron]

About law being broken: You would be guilty if you were stopped at
the border with over the allowed amount, however you were stopped way
after that and at this point it is not relevant, only because you, wife,
sister etc can each bring certain amount and give it to whoever they
like, in your case they chose to give it to you-perfectly legal.

Rubbish, if you read the "customs laws" of most country's "duty free goods are for personal consumption/ use"

Bringing goods into a country, evading the taxes etc, for another person or sale is illegal.

Trapping people in the carpark, handing over Duty Free Good, at Changi airport Singapore, was not uncommon, they used the CCTV as evidence.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

First, you were betrayed by someone, who would have been given a % of the 15k..

Second you did smuggle, as goods brought across the boarder must be for personal use only, as as the man said, I don't see 5 people.

Post #27 is quite a powerful argument against your assertion.

I'm glad the OP posted his account, since it will help warn others off a similar fate.

But as to the legalities, when the regulation talks about "personal use," I think it's fair to read that as meaning consumption... not use as in, turning around and giving or selling (even if it be at the OP's original cost) the items to others.

In fact it seems as though none of the five people who actually carried the five cartons of ciggies across the border were to be the ones actually consuming them. It was just the OP and his wife who got caught holding all the goods.

Technically, it probably was illegal. But pretty much everything that goes on in this country every day is illegal in some way or another. And not everyone gets fined/extorted 14K+ for it.

With the original purchase price for the ciggies plus the fine, I guess that works out to about 3,000 baht per carton. Not exactly the bargain the OP was expecting.

Edited May 13, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[whybother]

If I was to bring in one carton of cigarettes and give it to a friend or family member, would I be breaking the law?

If so, then I would think that everyone here has broken the law.

Who here hasn't bought something (anything, not just cigarettes) overseas and given it to (or even shared it with) someone?

It doesn't just apply to cigarettes and alcohol. There are "value of goods" limits as well, it's just that cigs and alcohol are more restrictive.

[dighambara]

Mistakes made:

1. Buying goods for another person

2. One person paying for all goods

3. Transporting and transferring on the same day

4. T.I.T. or Land of Swindles

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If the OP and his wife were stopped holding one or two cartons, I doubt there would have been any problem.

But when two people get stopped holding five cartons, it's not hard to see why trouble might ensue.

[PattayaPhom]

I thought anything brought back is for your own use or a gift, not for resale. Sounds like a fair cop but being grassed up by a snitch is never good

[whybother]

If the OP and his wife were stopped holding one or two cartons, I doubt there would have been any problem.

But when two people get stopped holding five cartons, it's not hard to see why trouble might ensue.

Except they had crossed the border legally.

[whybother]

I thought anything brought back is for your own use or a gift, not for resale. Sounds like a fair cop but being grassed up by a snitch is never good

He didn't sell it.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[bergen]

Unpleasant experience, lesson learned, and good of you to inform fellow farangs about it!

[sammycic]

My wife says it was most likely to be the cigarettes sellers themselves. If so, expats should stay well away from these markets and stop supporting the thieving bastards.

Edited May 13, 2013 by sammycic

[ubonrthai]

Hmmmm, so if someone were to hypothetically occasionally send motorcycle Taxis into Laos for a couple boxes of Beer Lao would that be considered legal?

[Thaddeus]

My wife says it was most likely to be the cigarettes sellers themselves. If so, expats should stay well away from these markets and stop supporting the thieving bastards.

Highly unlikely, the Cambodian stall owners actually advise new visitors what the rules are.

When you exit the market you have to walk a narrow dirt path and at least six Cambodian guards are observing you, you then have to pass through a Thai area, and you are being watched all the time by the Thai Border Patrol Guards all the way to the car parking area.

CH has been observed getting in to his vehicle with his guests by a Customs Official, they have Walkie-Talkies as there is a mobile phone blocker at the site, and he has radioed ahead the registration plate number so that CH can be follwed.

Please, ask you wife how the Cambodian stall owner would know which car to follow?

The thieving bastards, as you describe them, are definitely on the Thai side.

[sammycic]

If I understand you correctly you are allowed to illegally depart thailand to go shopping and then enter cambodia illegally and return to thailand illegally and get stitched up as well. sounds a great place to go shopping with everyone a winner except the poor sucker expat.

[Thaddeus]

If I understand you correctly you are allowed to illegally depart thailand to go shopping and then enter cambodia illegally and return to thailand illegally

Nope, where the market is, is either officially or unofficially declared no-mans-land by both the Thais and Cambodians, it's where the land mines used to be, try going beyond the market and you will quickly discover that you can't.

It's a joint venture, they should try it at a certain temple.

[sammycic]

Joint venture on no man's land what a wonderful description. 4 years ago i tried to go the temple from the thai side and I don't think i ever will be able to enter from the thai side.

[bri1guy]

You should have kept the 5 people in the vehicle whenever you had the purchased items. As soon as the others got out, you should of put the items inside house or somewhere in not drove around with them in your car.. I don't think there is any law broken but you were profiled & they were looking for a easy payout.. Lesson to be learned to not give them evidence for them to use against you, even if you weren't in the wrong..

[Thaddeus]

Joint venture on no man's land what a wonderful description. 4 years ago i tried to go the temple from the thai side and I don't think i ever will be able to enter from the thai side.

Well therein is the difference, in this little enterprise everyone benefits, Thais, Cambodians and a smattering of Westerners.

The Thai soldiers and Cambodian soldiers quite happily sit together chatting without any animosity that I can detect. Both Thai and Cambodian Monks can gather there too, and regularly do. There are Thai Ice-cream motorsais, sausages on sticks etc that are happy to be there.

It isn't just about beer and fags either, one of the major products that comes across is the dried grass roofing material, the Cambodians can sell it there for more than they could get at home, and the Thais buy it for half of what they would pay normally. Same applies to charcoal.

There are some valuable lessons that could be learned here by certain sections of both Thai and Cambodia society.

[Sydebolle]

Who dobbed you in?

+1

+1

[Regyai]

??

Youre adamant you know who the 'midnight mass' is.....

Pay the money and cure the problem

.

[Docno]

I can tell you that a lot of countries specifically stipulate that goods exempted from duty/taxes must be for personal consumption only and not sold on to others. Where I live (in Singapore), there are warnings that the goods cannot even be given to others as gifts, though this would be largely unenforceable. So while I don't know the specifics of Thai law on this matter, I would assume what you did was illegal.

[jobsworth]

My wife says it was most likely to be the cigarettes sellers themselves. If so, expats should stay well away from these markets and stop supporting the thieving bastards.

what i would do is next time again buy 5 cartons from the same seller, then ditch 3 of them in Cambodia and see if you still get stopped and searched later on.

the tax is about 850 THB per carton and the fine is 10 times that or 8500 THB per carton.

It is still a half price buy and you would know who is the snitch.

A friend of mine purchased 41 cartons and lost his pickup truck.

the fine was 40*8500 = 340.000 THB.